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View Full Version : GI to GIII Simer pump upgrade



2007 Outback V
01-29-2010, 10:28 PM
I have been slowly working on upgrading my GI system to GIII. Not done yet, but I can see the light. It has been quite the project, I've learned a lot!!! I would like to take a few seconds and personally thank the moomba boards, that means all of you!!! I would not have made it this far into the upgrade without reading what others have done and asking tons, and I mean tons of questions. THANK YOU!!!!

When I decided to take on this project, my main trouble was trying to figure out which ballast pumps I wanted to use........stay stock with sprinkler valves, go with Tsunami pumps, or go with impeller pumps like the Jabsco ballast puppy. To make a long story short I decided to go with impeller pumps for two main reasons:
1) I wanted to have fairly quick fill times (we all know how restrictive the sprinkler valves can be)
2) I wanted to make the install simple as possible

At first I wanted to go with Jabsco pumps but I choose Simer 12V water pumps ~$53 ea. at Fleet Farm. I couldn't beat that price, and I couldn't afford the Jabsco pumps (considering it was also very important that I get tower speakers on the boat before spring). Yes I know, SIMER PUMPS ARE NOT IGNITION PROTECTED!!!! That is why I mounted them in the rear lockers. Well, I'm sure you all are eager to see some pics, so here the project is thus far.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2098
Port side rear locker with ski locker pump mounted on back of seat and rear locker pump mounted under seat.


http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2100
Starboard side pump, fills starboard rear locker bag.


http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2099
Rear locker bag size 12X20X46 (They have 1 in. fill/empty port and 3/4 in. overflow port.



http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2101
Intake manifold looking toward starboard side. 1 in. ballast hose is for center ski locker fill/empty.

2007 Outback V
01-29-2010, 10:53 PM
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2102
Intake manifold looking toward stern. This tee supplies the fill/empty for the rear locker bags.


http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2103
Intake manifold looking toward port side.


http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2104

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2105
One-way valves on over flow ports supply a vacuum while pumps empty bags.

Setup details:
Used stock intake - custom 1 in. HP PVC manifold to 1 in. fill/drain line.
-not optimal! I would like intake for each pump or at least a 1.25 in. intake.

3/4 in. overflow lines with one-way valves to create vacuum when pumps are empting bags. I'm hoping the pumps will suck the bags flat.

See, simple system!

Things left to complete and some questions of course:

1) Drill port and starboard overfill/discharge holes in boat. I'm still building up the guts to drill through my gel coat......I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.....

2) Fill/Empty ballast switches seem to be linked to re-settable fuse breaker?? I need them to be 20 amp breakers to run these pumps. Can I get these breakers from SC or online somewhere? Or should I bypass the breaker and just keep a 20 amp fuse in the wire. FYI these pumps come with an in-line fuse of 30 amps. However, the ballast switches are 20 amp max. I know the pumps with run fine fused at 20 amps, I just don't know which way to go??

3) Where in the heck do I put my Stereo and ACC switch that I removed to make room for the ballast switches??? Any ideas/recommendations????

4) Test the system and keep my fingers crossed.

5) Finishing touches......like tucking away the wires a little better.

DOCDRS
01-30-2010, 12:18 AM
I like the overflow one way valve, let us know if it does suck the bag dry...in theory this should work....nice idea

newty
01-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Buy a 4 way ignition key switch like in a lot of older cars, and hook your stereo remote lead into that. Turn your key left to accessory to listen to the stereo when the boat is off and when you start the boat the strereo will come back on.
As far as the other acc switch, it depends on what you have it running to. if its blank then I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise relocate it out of the way under the dash so you still have access to it.

2007 Outback V
01-31-2010, 11:19 PM
Buy a 4 way ignition key switch like in a lot of older cars, and hook your stereo remote lead into that. Turn your key left to accessory to listen to the stereo when the boat is off and when you start the boat the strereo will come back on.
As far as the other acc switch, it depends on what you have it running to. if its blank then I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise relocate it out of the way under the dash so you still have access to it.

Great idea newty, thanks!! Right now I do not have anything hooked up to the ACC switch, but I was thinking of using it as the remote switch to power on/off the tower speakers.

2007 Outback V
07-31-2010, 04:41 PM
I have been testing and using the system a lot recently. I changed a few things:

1) Picked up a GIII ballast plate to save room on the dash. Now I have extra ballast switches on the dash for my two bow bag upgrade plans and the stereo switch can stay at its initial home.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2753

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2752

2) I didn't like the pump on the backside of the Port seat. It looked odd and my 750 lb surf bag would push on it when full. I pulled it out and went back to the rule pump filling the center ski locker bag.

It takes about 8-9 min to fill all the ballast, not too bad!!!

The rear bags get sucked completely flat, it's amazing, works great. The simer pumps sound different when the bags are empty so I know when to turn them off. Wish they shut off automatically, hmmmm, future upgrade.

Since I went back to the rule pumps for the ski locker bag, its terrible, air always in the bag and it doesn't empty all the way. I plan on buying either a jabsco or a johnson pump to install in the engine compartment for the center bag, but we'll see.

More to come this fall/winter :D

2007 Outback V
07-31-2010, 06:01 PM
Snap a pic of the bag sucked totally flat. Stock system should've been designed to work like this.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=260&pictureid=2761

jmvotto
07-31-2010, 10:30 PM
great work on the ballast. i still have boxes of stuff to put in the boat but we have sepnt more time on the lake these days:D

driven sydeways
08-09-2010, 07:23 PM
awesome install! checked it out at the moomba meet this past weekend, top notch.

Canuckle Head
09-15-2010, 01:45 PM
Nice work man!

So, did you only install 1 additional intake strainer or 2? I am really liking your setup and am thinking I may go the same route. One question I have is why not mount the simer pump in the front locker where the current evac pump is located? Or, is it too far from the intake to prime?

2007 Outback V
09-19-2010, 01:23 PM
Nice work man!

So, did you only install 1 additional intake strainer or 2? I am really liking your setup and am thinking I may go the same route. One question I have is why not mount the simer pump in the front locker where the current evac pump is located? Or, is it too far from the intake to prime?

Thanks, it is a solid system. I used it all summer flawlessly, although I have found a few tweaks that I plan on making. Let me know if you go this route and I'll throw a few more ideas your way.

No, I did not add any additional intakes. All three pumps utilize the stock intake with custom manifold. I am planning on adding an addition intake or two.

A simer pump could be mounted in the ski locker, the pump would have no problem drawing water. The ski locker is a tight place in our boats and the simer pump is at least two times the size of the stock rule empty pump. However, I never really tried fitting it in there. Could be done.

Good luck, and glad you like the setup.

deafgoose
09-19-2010, 01:31 PM
So how long does it take to fill the bags compared to before?

Canuckle Head
09-20-2010, 01:44 PM
So how long does it take to fill the bags compared to before?

I think he said 8 or 9 minutes and that's with the stock intake valve and 3 pumps! (if I am reading this right). Got your PM Chad, sorry you haven't been feeling well.

I guess the other option for the third and fourth pump (my plan is to do a seperate pump for the integrated bow sac) would be to mount them beside the rear pumps under the seats and then run the hoses forward under the floor to the Center and IBS.

T100 posted a thread showing a guy who used the Johnson pumps in his Centurion and he had fabricated a Tee fitting into his rear lines so that he could fill bags that would be situated in the seating area and still be able to drain them off of the same pump: http://www.centurionavalancheballast...l.blogspot.com

So, my current plan of attack is to:


Remove the stock intake and upgrade it to 1-1/2"
Add an additional 1-1/2" intake
Run 2 pumps per intake via a Tee fitting
T-Fitting off of the fill/drain hose on the rear bags with PVC Ball Valves on each line.


Haven't decided if I will use Simer or Johnson pumps. The Johnson pumps are pricey but at least they are ignition protected and allows me the option of putting them down in bilge area. Heck, you could probably go 2 Simer and 2 Johnson if you needed to save some cash.

2007 Outback V
09-21-2010, 11:47 PM
I think he said 8 or 9 minutes and that's with the stock intake valve and 3 pumps! (if I am reading this right). Got your PM Chad, sorry you haven't been feeling well.

Yup, you got it, about 8 to 9 minutes. Also, thanks for your concern, I am feeling much better now.



So, my current plan of attack is to:


Remove the stock intake and upgrade it to 1-1/2"
Add an additional 1-1/2" intake
Run 2 pumps per intake via a Tee fitting
T-Fitting off of the fill/drain hose on the rear bags with PVC Ball Valves on each line.


Haven't decided if I will use Simer or Johnson pumps. The Johnson pumps are pricey but at least they are ignition protected and allows me the option of putting them down in bilge area. Heck, you could probably go 2 Simer and 2 Johnson if you needed to save some cash.

Why 1.5" intake? I think a 1" mushroom intake for two pumps will supply plenty of water, plus then you don't have to put those monster holes in the hull? I may be wrong, let me know.

Funny you mention the Johnson pumps, I plan on getting two and putting them in the bilge/engine area (not sure on placement yet). 2 pumps per intake is my plan as well, but why the PVC ball valve on the rear bags?

This ballast stuff is fun, isn't it!

Canuckle Head
09-22-2010, 12:48 PM
Why 1.5" intake? I think a 1" mushroom intake for two pumps will supply plenty of water, plus then you don't have to put those monster holes in the hull? I may be wrong, let me know.

No, you are right in that 1" should be more than enough for 2 pumps. I was at West Marine last night and my jaw almost hit the floor when I saw the size of the 1-1/4" intake. They didn't even have a 1-1/2" in stock.


Why the PVC ball valve on the rear bags?

This will allow me to fill an additional Fat Sac in the seating area of the boat from the ballast system. Even with the 750 in the rear locker and the bow and center locker full, the wave isn't as good as it is with 3 or 4 additional people in the boat. So, I would like the have the option of filling and draining an additional 750lb bag that will go in the seating area for days when it's just the wife, kids (2 boys aged 3 and 6) and myself. Yes, I know, we have become wave snobs but how nice would it be to just lift up the seat cushion, pull out the hose and connect to the bag? :D


This ballast stuff is fun, isn't it!

Heck ya! I am stoked to get started on this project. I am still holding out that the weather will be nice again and I can squeeze out a couple of more weeks of riding before I start ripping out the original intake and drilling new holes into the boat.

I'll definintely do my best to document my install and post it. So, do you think you'll order in a couple of Johnson Pumps then? And, do you think you could fit 2 Simer pumps side by side under the seats where you have them now?

2007 Outback V
09-22-2010, 09:41 PM
So, do you think you'll order in a couple of Johnson Pumps then? And, do you think you could fit 2 Simer pumps side by side under the seats where you have them now?

Yeah, sometime this winter I'll try to grab two Johnson Pumps on sale. Two Simer pumps can fit side by side no problem, all depends on how you want to run the ballast hose, but the space is there.

Canuckle Head
09-23-2010, 06:02 PM
Hey, where did you get your check / one way valves?

mnpracing
09-23-2010, 06:44 PM
Stupid question, but what does it mean for the pump to be ignition protected?

Canuckle Head
09-23-2010, 07:37 PM
Stupid question, but what does it mean for the pump to be ignition protected?

It means that a spark from the device will not ignite a fuel/air mixture in the same space. Something you want to avoid if you are putting electrical devices in your bilge area. ;)

2007 Outback V
09-23-2010, 09:37 PM
Hey, where did you get your check / one way valves?

Fleet Farm, $10 a piece I think. Check out the plumbing sections in a local store, you should be able to find something similar. I'm sure Home Depot or any other type of home improvement store should have some.