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rjgaumer
02-20-2010, 07:48 PM
so i am upgrading my ballast system from g1 to g3. I dont know how well this will work tell me what you think. I will tap into the water intake for the front bag right in front of the pump. I will be putting a rule 800gph pump to fill the back sacs and another to empty them. Do i need to use another sprinkler valve on it? or will the pump be fine.

It is on an XLV

Razzman
02-20-2010, 10:18 PM
There are better ways to go other than the sprinkler valves, and i'll let those that have done it expand on that. But.. if your determined to stay with stock type valves then you'll need to add a valve for each bag via a manifold system. They each need a seperate valve for the switches for one, also with just one valve you'd seriously inhibit the fill rate of the bags which are already slow enough as it is.

rjgaumer
02-20-2010, 11:37 PM
why do i need manifolds? why can i not go straight from the pump to the bag?

brain_rinse
02-20-2010, 11:59 PM
Lots of ways to do it. Do some searches to see what others have done and it will help you understand your options and what each of the components do. Since you are buying new parts, I wouldn't mess with the sprinkler valves. Personally I would add one switch, fill pump, vented loop, and drain pump for each bag.

you da man
02-21-2010, 05:08 AM
why do i need manifolds? why can i not go straight from the pump to the bag?

If you have only one intake then you need a manifold to divide the water to each pump or bag. If you have 3 bags and 3 intakes then you can go directly to each bag but you should add a manual shutoff.

tazz3069
02-21-2010, 10:43 AM
why do i need manifolds? why can i not go straight from the pump to the bag?

Lust like You da Man said. With one pump, you need this manifold with three sprinkler valves. Each valve will be connected to each bag. Then you will need three exit pumps. One for each bag.

You will need the valve because they will operate the flow of water in your bags. The pumps do not have a way to stop the flow of water especially if you are using scuppers. If no sprinkler valves are use, while under way, the bags will fill by them selves. Believe me. I happened to me when I was experimenting with my system. Now, I got rid of the valves because of the fill time. I have three 1200 gph Tsunami pumps and Three vented loops. My system is plumbed just like the Malibu boats. My fill time is tons faster, and I do not have water filling by itself. I love my system and would not change anything. Well maybe, i will be changing out my 400lb bags for 550lb bags in the rear. Also, I had to drill two extra holes in the hull to accommodate the new intake for the new pumps. Lots of people do not like this process. to be totally honest, I did not want to do this either. I bought the right bit at Home Depot and it was very easy. It was like a hot knife through butter.

The only way to get away from the valves it to go with a Jabsco pump. They have an internal valve that stops water flow. Also, they are reversible. You will still need three pumps for the three bags. Now the Jabsco pumps a fairly expensive. Not sure what your budget is. I hope that we have given you a little insite on what you would like to do. Please ask. Alot of us have done what you wanted and we all asked the same questions.
Tazz

HERE IS THE VENTED LOOP PICTURE
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=1739
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=1738

ONE OF THE THREE NEW PUMPS
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=1735

tazz3069
02-21-2010, 10:53 AM
MODIFIED SCUPPERS. I REMOVED THE CUP.
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1725
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=805

hOLE IN BOTTOM OF HULL
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=803
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=804

tazz3069
02-21-2010, 10:54 AM
NEW BALL VALVE
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=801

rjgaumer
02-21-2010, 11:27 AM
wow that was some great info guys thanks!! couple more questions.. i will be using tsunami 1200's from the pump, what all will i need to connect to the fly high bag?

thanks

tazz3069
02-21-2010, 10:34 PM
wow that was some great info guys thanks!! couple more questions.. i will be using tsunami 1200's from the pump, what all will i need to connect to the fly high bag?

thanks

Make sure you get the fitting for the pump. The 1200 has a weird size ends. You can not buy this from home depot. I would ask from where ever you buy the pump, that you get the right connectors.

Here is a link for the bag and hose connectors
http://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard-ballast-fittings

Here is the link for the pump connectors. They also have the pumps.
http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/category/pumps-water-systems/plumbing%20and%20fittings

rjgaumer
02-21-2010, 10:54 PM
what connector do i need? there are a ton of them.. i will need stuff to connect to these bags..

http://cgi.ebay.com/FLY-HIGH-WAKEBOARD-WAKESURF-V-DRIVE-BALLAST-SACS-1000lb_W0QQitemZ140358728964QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae083d04

JesseC
02-21-2010, 11:33 PM
Here is an example of how to build a manifold system using sprinkler valves. I have had better luck and fewer issues with the single pump and sprinkler valve system. I will be creating a new thread in about two weeks of my GIII upgrade to SUPER GIII system. I have built two systems, one with individual pumps and no manifolds and one with a HUGE single pump and sprinkler manifolds. The sprinkler manifold performed way better than the individual pumps and I did not have to use vented loops, plus I tested my system with all of the hoses hooked up full length on both systems and the sprinkler manifold system was almost a third faster!!! So don't let people tell you the sprinkler valves are ALWAYS slower. I will be debuting one shortly that is super simple and is faster than individual pumps. THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS FOR CINTRIFUGAL PUMPS NOT THE NEW JABSCO PUMPS. The new system like in ED_Gs boat will smoke mine, but I did not have the cash to go that route. My comparison was done with 3 Tsunami 800s vs a Rule 3800 and sprinkler valves.

Back to the manifold, cut all of your pieces and then test fit them in the boat, mark each side of the pipes with a sharpie, remove the system and re-assemble using the proper primer and glue. Here is a sneak peak at my creation:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/Ballast_Manifold11.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/Ballast_Manifold14.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/Ballast_Manifold7.jpg

DOCDRS
02-21-2010, 11:36 PM
jesse that looks like 1" pipe and connectors?

JesseC
02-21-2010, 11:41 PM
jesse that looks like 1" pipe and connectors?

You are very close!!! I used 1 1/4" pipe. The smallest connection in my entire system is 1" which is what the internal diameter ends up being when you join 1 1/4" pipe!.

Also the valves I used are not traditional "Up and Over" sprinkler valves. I use Irritrol 700 series. My system from two years ago used 3/4" valves that were about $25 each, this year I upgraded to 1" at $45 each.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/valvedesign.jpg

viking
02-21-2010, 11:44 PM
NICE! Looks like ur manifold is built for 3 rear bags and a front bag? 4 total?

DOCDRS
02-21-2010, 11:46 PM
Very nice......thats what i thought. that will be a far easier way for the guys to upgrade their gIII to reduce fill times. what are you time wise to fill a 750?. But you have to replace all your 3/4 lines to 1" lines. but that is the whole key.....your only as fastest as your smallest diameter connection/pipe. but what about the intake? bigger scupper?

JesseC
02-21-2010, 11:47 PM
NICE! Looks like ur manifold is built for 3 rear bags and a front bag? 4 total?

Good catch!!! The small 3/4 inch valve that is alone on the end goes to my front ski locker. Since I can not upgrade the fitting on the bag to a 1" fitting I just left it at 3/4" since there would be no gain, just a waste of 9' of 1" hose. I also have two bags in the rear so that uses to of the three 1" valves. The fourth valve is a work in progress which is the reason that I am doing this entire upgrade. I will reveal the purpose of the fourth valve in the next two weeks......if it works as good as it does in my head!!!

JesseC
02-21-2010, 11:52 PM
Very nice......thats what i thought. that will be a far easier way for the guys to upgrade their gIII to reduce fill times. what are you time wise to fill a 750?. But you have to replace all your 3/4 lines to 1" lines. but that is the whole key.....your only as fastest as your smallest diameter connection/pipe. but what about the intake? bigger scupper?

That was my exact thinking, you are right, the smalles inlet is what you have to desing the entire system for. I removed the old scupper, shutoff valve and replaced it with an internal diameter of 1" scupper and diverter valve. Man, you guys are making me post everything before I finish!!! I need to start a new thread and just put updates on my status in it. Everything is fully tested, but is scattered all over my garage.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/Ballast_Manifold6.jpg

DOCDRS
02-21-2010, 11:53 PM
could your 4th be for your drain pump?

viking
02-21-2010, 11:53 PM
Sounds Good! Now you've got me on the edge of my seat wondering and waiting. You know that's not very nice since it's winter time and nothing to take my mind away from anything boating on the forums :(

DOCDRS
02-21-2010, 11:54 PM
post it in the how to section and i'll stick it ....great work....i love to see guys take it one step more

JesseC
02-21-2010, 11:55 PM
Sounds Good! Now you've got me on the edge of my seat wondering and waiting. You know that's not very nice since it's winter time and nothing to take my mind away from anything boating on the forums :(

Ok fine, give me about 5-10 minutes and I will go down stairs and take a pic of what the 4th valve is for.

DOCDRS
02-22-2010, 12:00 AM
oh man 3800 gph....that is going to smoke......it will be faster than the jabsco........now i am jealous:)
this i like xmas morning waiting to see whats under the tree

JesseC
02-22-2010, 12:15 AM
Ok, here is the thinking behind my insanity. I love to wakeboard and surf...A LOT, but I got tired of stopping the boat after wakeboarding, dumping one bag, unhooking it and dragging it to the other side of the boat. Find the hand held pump, hook it to the cigarette lighter, remind people not to trip on it and yank out all my wires and then sit there waiting on it to fill since the boat can't move due to the fact there is a hose hanging over the side of the boat while someone holds the end under the water. Then reverse the process to empty.

So I bought another bag and added the fourth valve. Now I can fill/empty on the go!!! Heck yes!!! So my purchase was the 3800gph pump, Tsunami 800 to empty and all the other items to make it work. I still have A LOT of wiring and cutting to do.

Here is the system in it's "Mocked Up stage" no clamps and scrap hose, just to give you guys a sneak peak.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/GIII_to_GIV002.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/GIII_to_GIV007.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/GIII_to_GIV005.jpg

DOCDRS
02-22-2010, 12:18 AM
That is awesome......flow rates thru a 1" are double a 3/4" , a ? was there a scupper with a 1.25" diam?

I like the pics, gIII to gIV

JesseC
02-22-2010, 12:19 AM
oh man 3800 gph....that is going to smoke......it will be faster than the jabsco........now i am jealous:)
this i like xmas morning waiting to see whats under the tree

I do not believe it will out perform the jabscos. With all the restrictions and valves it will not be as fast, close, but probably a little slower. I would have done the Jabscos, but my wife said no......too expensive. Jabscos are definately the way to go....my way is what I could afford.

JesseC
02-22-2010, 12:24 AM
That is awesome......flow rates thru a 1" are double a 3/4" , a ? was there a scupper with a 1.25" diam?

Yes there is, you can go all the way to 2", one thing to remember though, the larger the diameter, the larger the components. I could not get one that size to fit between the pump, v-Drive and Gas tank. I also had to use a diverter valve to achieve the 90 degree to the pump. The internal diameter to the diverter is 1" all the way through. In my testing the system can empty a 5 gallon bucket in about 10 seconds. The original system took almost a minute. Definately not 3800 GPH, but much faster than before.

DOCDRS
02-22-2010, 12:30 AM
I was just thinking that since you have 1.25 pipe you would get a better fill time if you were filling all 3 bags at once but i suppose even adding another 3800 pump in parallel would beef things up more.................if it were needed, but probably not.............wouldn't want to sink your boat if a fitting came loose:D

great job

DOCDRS
02-22-2010, 12:35 AM
and you can fill while your moving at an incredible rate.....this just keeps getting better