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guinsha54
03-08-2010, 05:16 PM
As a fairly inexperienced stereo person who purchased a used boat that was already loaded with a IMHO very good sound system I was wondering what it would take to install a WS-420. Do the interior speakers need to be amped to be controlled through the eq or is there another way to control them through the eq or just something I donít understand with how the ws420 all works. I know you can control the boat and tower speakers separately however, can you still control the volume normally or should you only use the eq to control the volume once installed? Any explanation would be appreciated.

jmvotto
03-08-2010, 05:29 PM
I do not have one (yet:D) but i believe that you need at least two amp to get proper seperation or a least a multi channel amp in order to seperate ot the in boat vs tower vs sub...

jasonba1
03-08-2010, 05:59 PM
I have one you will still conntrol the volume through your head unit, the ws 420 just lets you control the tower and inboats but you can tune your speakers and change the volume a tad just like with any eq but the main vloume will come from the head unit. You will love this system it is one of the best things I ever put on my boat. Hope I helped

DOCDRS
03-08-2010, 06:01 PM
I just bought one of thos a few days ago, waiting for it. here is some info
http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=5456

gus 08 mobius lsv
03-09-2010, 11:47 AM
i had one installed last fall and i love the features it has. i have a huge range of volume with the ws 420 eq it will turn it down so low you can't hear it or blare it loud enough to hear at wake boarding distance.
check my stereo upgrades out to see where they mounted mine

guinsha54
03-09-2010, 04:29 PM
Thanks for the replies. I've got a better understanding now and also found the Owners Manual online if anyone else is interested in checking it out I can pm you the link. Now I just need to decide if I think it will be worth it with my current setup or if I should upgrade my tower speakers too.

SC_LSV
03-10-2010, 03:32 PM
I have stock kenwood head unit and two amps.

JL M6600 running the in boats and the towers & JL M1700 running two 10s under my front seat. With the WS-420 can I still control the towers and in boats separately running off the same amp? The system I have sounds awesome, but would love to be able to turn down the towers independently from the inboats. What's my best option?

WS420 or new head unit with dual zone outputs?

SC_LSV

brain_rinse
03-10-2010, 04:03 PM
SC_LSV, yes you can control the tower and cabin speakers (and sub) separately with the WS-420. You'll hook one set of RCA cables from the headunit to the EQ (input) and 3 sets from the EQ to your amps (output). 2 of those sets outputs will go to your M6600 and 1 set to the M1700.

A less expensive option is the Clarion EQS746. You lose the mic though. Either way I think an EQ is a better option than new headunit for tower control since you can simply turn a knob from the drivers seat.

brain_rinse
03-10-2010, 04:20 PM
You're right, the WS-420 is 5x as expensive! ;) I agree though, the mic and dual zone are significant differences.

Razzman
03-10-2010, 06:38 PM
Or you can just run a couple of PAC switches for less than $50 to gain selection control if your happy with your system. Not everyone is an audiophile or needs/wants the Intricacies of an EQ and for them PACs work just fine.

brain_rinse
03-10-2010, 06:43 PM
I agree, Razz. But in SC_LSV's case he needs 3 sets of RCAs in order to control the tower separate from the cabin speakers. Plus the Clarion is $50 shipped on Amazon and you get the benefit of the 7v line driver.

Razzman
03-10-2010, 09:27 PM
No line-driver, so less sound quality
No dual-zone eq, so you don't have the separate tone controls
No mic
No boatlink
No external input for other audio devices

Everybody that's actually spent money on a WS-420, has been VERY surprised.

I'm sure they have been, but then for $299 they'd better be right? I'm also trying to figure out what everyone did before this came out :rolleyes:

Seriously you don't need to sell me on it, i know all about it and what it does. I also know it's not for everyone, for example i've been trying to get my brother-in-law to upgrade his stereo but he's just fine with his underpowered Alpine setup and one Schosce pot that turns down his tower speakers. For him $299 for something to do that is unthinkable. To him it's all about the riding and not who's he's going to impress with his stereo.

mmandley
03-10-2010, 11:02 PM
I thought long and hard about the EQ thing.

Then i recall something i was taught a long time ago when i became a home Audiophile.

EQs add distortion to your music, and unless you have an ear for sound, most don't and EQ will only get you into more trouble.

I decided to not run an EQ. I have a separate volume control for the tower amp, and also a separate volume control for the sub. 2 dials, and a main volume do it all.

EQs are great if you know what your doing and know how to set them, but most of the time they will add distortion, and most people will set them wrong and over work the amps and speakers with clipping and gains that are too high.

guinsha54
03-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Or you can just run a couple of PAC switches for less than $50 to gain selection control if your happy with your system. Not everyone is an audiophile or needs/wants the Intricacies of an EQ and for them PACs work just fine.

So for us non audiophiles what is a PAC switch, how does it work, and how is it installed? The same question for a Schosce pot. I tried a quick google but didnt come up with much.

mmandley
03-11-2010, 09:54 AM
So for us non audiophiles what is a PAC switch, how does it work, and how is it installed? The same question for a Schosce pot. I tried a quick google but didnt come up with much.

The PAC is a little box with a dial on it. On the back are RCA connections.

Deck...out RCAs
PAC....in the middle
AMP....in RCAs

Its a box that sits between the deck and amp as fare as wiring, then you can use as a separate volume control.

jmvotto
03-11-2010, 10:28 AM
Mike,

What control knobs are you using and and do you have a high volt pre out.

I am looking at all things, eq ( clarion or wetsounds, don't need the mic , but may be fun to yell at idiot jetskiers), adding two more Pac lc1 controller ( i already have one, or geatting a new HU with thre pre-outs and with 4 volts each.

I currently have to split the signals three ways and then run thre PAC, I might loose a lot of signal. JL line drivers look nice but if i need three @60 bucks i may as well get a new HU or ws 420:confused:

Make sense

Darn, this site has me doing all kinds of upgrades:mad:

Razzman
03-11-2010, 12:05 PM
This is a PAC LC-1 (http://pac-audio.com/productDetails.aspx?ProductId=267&CategoryID=28) switch. The Scosche pot (potentiometer) is the same thing. They just plug inline between the head unit and the amp.

mmandley
03-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Mike,

What control knobs are you using and and do you have a high volt pre out.

I am looking at all things, eq ( clarion or wetsounds, don't need the mic , but may be fun to yell at idiot jetskiers), adding two more Pac lc1 controller ( i already have one, or geatting a new HU with thre pre-outs and with 4 volts each.

I currently have to split the signals three ways and then run thre PAC, I might loose a lot of signal. JL line drivers look nice but if i need three @60 bucks i may as well get a new HU or ws 420:confused:

Make sense

Darn, this site has me doing all kinds of upgrades:mad:


The way mine is going to be set up is.

Kenwood Deck is a 4v Pre out on 3 lines.
Exile 1500.1 has a Bass Level control so its just like a Pac
Exile Harpoon for the tower has 1 Pac. 1 stepping box like a PAC but not.
1 allows you to turn the volume down
1 allows you to change the tone of the speaker for wake boarding and wake surfing so your not blown away at 20 feet.

Razzman
03-11-2010, 01:07 PM
Hey Mike, I'd heard a rumor that Kicker is playing around a dual field control device. I didn't anymore than that but that would be cool if they do. Knowing Kicker it would probably work real well and hopefully be less cash.

mmandley
03-11-2010, 02:44 PM
I think this new Throttle system Exile is using will be the new wave for all towers. It realy makes them more usable for wake boarding and wake surfing. Sure you can turn the tower down but then you are losing that loud jam you want. The only problem with HLCDs up close is the treable is so bright its slightly painfull. The new throttle box turns what you would think is treable down but in reality its retunning the whole wavelength. Its a realy cool concept and i expect lots of companies to be following suit.

jmvotto
03-11-2010, 04:03 PM
Mike , How much do one of those throttle boxes cost and does it turn down the volume.

mmandley
03-11-2010, 05:12 PM
Cant buy just the Throttle box. Its a Feature on the Exile Harpoon amp im running for my towers.

No it wont change the volume its strickly for changing how fare the speaker throw sound. At 80 feet up close to the speaker it will be painfull due to the highs and such thats its projecting.

Turn it to wake surf and the the sound then changes and doesnt project as fare, its like taking it from an HLCD and making it a regular cabin speaker again.

Brianinpdx
03-11-2010, 09:12 PM
Sorry guys, as I have not had much time lately to chime in on here.

Here's some input for everyone in very plain terms. It sometimes surprises me how people can get confused by all this. The very first thing I'll say is there is no MAGIC KNOB that fixes every audio problem. Keep this in mind while going over this.

The PAK-LC1 is a very simple and effective tool. In short its a knob that is continuously variable style potentiometer that the captain uses to very the entire audio signal passing thru it. In the real world you'll see this on boats tied into the bass amplifier - to blend the sub overall level or the tower amplifier to reduce volume when a rider is down, etc... as mike mentioned it goes in line with your amplifier and its an easy setup. Only downside is you often times have to run a long rca cable to the helm mounting location. It's not a great thing to be running the low voltage signal around the boat.

Remote bass knobs - are an entirely different thing. Several mfgs offer an addon knob that looks quite like one of those LC1's but work entirely different. Some boost the bass region of an amplifiers output. On the Exile gear, we use a "twinT" filter circuit that allows the captain to adjust amplifier output across a narrow range of the bass audio spectrum. We do this because we want the amplifier to focus the output energy. This saves power and doesnt make the amplifier work to reproduce un-needed audio frequency. As a side note, amplifier's with built in subsonic filtering do this much the same way. It's really great because all the energy below the port frequency is wasted. Why make the amp work so hard if you dont have to, right?

Line Drivers - Dont really have remote knobs but play a role here because they sometimes are included in other devices I'll mention in a moment. The bottom line here is they are going to boost up the output of a headunit. Unfortunately, many mfg's are liars when they spec their gear. You really have two choices, buy a headunit that is known to be worthy---kenwood,clarion, alpine marine source units, or keep the unit you have and stick on a line driver. often times i see guys asking me about the biggest meanest amplifier we make and I have to tell them, "hey, start with your headunit bro, or your wasting your money". Liine drivers are pretty cost effect and can be found in 2/3/6 channel versions pretty easily.

WS420 - My take is its a great device that offers features that sometimes people try to piece together. It's got the line drivers I mentioned, built in EQ's controls and the ability to talk on a remote mic. It will operate like those LC's in every sense but offers a lot more! I think they want 300 or so for it.

Exile Harpoon - The amp has to very specific knobs built into the amp itself. First a full range level control. Works like those LC's but you dont have to fly RCA's around your boat. It controls the amplifiers input stage sensitivity, allowing you to reduce, blend or shut off all the way the output. I think JL might also offer a full range feature like this as well. The second feature is a unique "marine audio" first. It's called throttle box and it lets the user shape the sound of HLCD's. It doesn't do this with equalization. It uses the inherent HLCD characteristics to map specific audio output goals - CLOSE / NEAR / FAR. It's done with a remote that is continuously variable. Meaning you can make slight adjustments or dramatic ones. Only point that Mike got wrong is that other companies wont be following suit.... We've applied for a patent on this design. It's special and only available in the Harpoon amplifier.

The bottom line here is that all the items mentioned above are tools for your audio system. When your system grows into a multi amplifier setup, its time to look at these items to help your system reach its full potential.

Hope this helps.

-Brian
Exile Audio

byronkoz
03-12-2010, 04:32 PM
I thought long and hard about the EQ thing.

Then i recall something i was taught a long time ago when i became a home Audiophile.

EQs add distortion to your music, and unless you have an ear for sound, most don't and EQ will only get you into more trouble.

I decided to not run an EQ. I have a separate volume control for the tower amp, and also a separate volume control for the sub. 2 dials, and a main volume do it all.

EQs are great if you know what your doing and know how to set them, but most of the time they will add distortion, and most people will set them wrong and over work the amps and speakers with clipping and gains that are too high.

True, setup is everything with a pre amp. When I installed my EQ I could really hear alot of things (humming mostley) I couldnt before so I went through and did everything over again till the sound cleaned up. Now im really happy with it and running 3 amps, I have alot of control of the way everything sounds indavidually.

jmvotto
03-12-2010, 05:32 PM
True, setup is everything with a pre amp. When I installed my EQ I could really hear alot of things (humming mostley) I couldnt before so I went through and did everything over again till the sound cleaned up. Now im really happy with it and running 3 amps, I have alot of control of the way everything sounds indavidually.

Which eq do you have running three amps?

byronkoz
03-12-2010, 05:57 PM
Clarion EQS-746. Also run my Ipod through it.

byronkoz
03-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Not having to use a HU is another advantage of an EQ. I do miss being able to throw on a CD and just use the transom remote so I'm going back to a HU this year.