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brain_rinse
03-12-2010, 10:49 AM
Hopefully one of the experts around here can help me out. I bought a ProMariner dual bank charger so I could a.) recharge the batteries fully after a day on the water and b.) maintain the batteries (float) during winter storage. However it doesn't like the way my batteries are configured and won't charge.

After several discussions with ProMariner support they told me this type of charger isn't compatible with voltage sensing relays (VSR). Is that really true or does it just take a little more creative wiring?

The 4/4 is what I have: link (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_74190_225007000_225000000_225007000_225-7-0)

Razzman
03-12-2010, 11:00 AM
Honestly can't say, i've never seen the need for one so i have no experience with them. Try calling the VSR mfgr and see what they say, can't be the first time this has come up.

brain_rinse
03-12-2010, 11:24 AM
Honestly can't say, i've never seen the need for one so i have no experience with them. ...
Since you're in Cali I can understand not needing to maintain over winter. After a day of stereo abuse in the cove I don't ever run the engine long enough to fully charge the accessory battery. The alternator will eventually get it done but I like to start the next day with a full charge.

... Try calling the VSR mfgr and see what they say, can't be the first time this has come up.
Good idea, will do. Thanks!

Razzman
03-12-2010, 12:17 PM
Since you're in Cali I can understand not needing to maintain over winter. After a day of stereo abuse in the cove I don't ever run the engine long enough to fully charge the accessory battery. The alternator will eventually get it done but I like to start the next day with a

Actually i do maintain over the winter, where i live it's not all sunshine trust me! Even now it's was 43 degrees this morning. I use auto-sensing battery tenders which are on my batts all winter. We float for an hour or two then board, surf or tube for awhile and repeat. Never have i drained a battery yet.

you da man
03-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Call David at Earmark Marine and he'll tell you what you need.

EarmarkMarine
03-12-2010, 05:30 PM
Brian,

It does take an extra component or two for those two items to coincide and function properly. Its something we outline in advance with every ACR/VSR and charger combo we send out. The topolgy of my circuit supports the SurePower combiner/separator. I would need to know which items you have and whether its a non-fishing-boat or other type, brand and model of ACR. Shoot me an email with the details and I'll get you a solution for your particular device.

I'm a major advocate for combiner/separators but these are generally misunderstood including where all the dominos fall. There's a ton of misinformation on the net including that generated by the manufacturers.

David
Earmark Marine

newty
03-13-2010, 09:10 AM
David, Are there any onboard chargers out there that would support my AGM's and surepower? Or do you suggest the upgrade mentioned earlier?
I've got everything just about set up and the charger is the last thing to buy.

EarmarkMarine
03-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Newty,

Send me an email of exactly what you pieced together and we'll get you the right charger and parts to head off any issues in advance.

David

newty
03-13-2010, 05:01 PM
Message sent. Thanks David!

brain_rinse
03-24-2010, 12:28 AM
Just wanted to mention that David at Earmark was very helpful and had some great ideas on how to make it work. I'll post back with the specifics once it's complete.

I'll also add that if you feel the need to deal with BEP technical support for any reason you'd probably get a better answer from your mom. :)

DOCDRS
03-24-2010, 10:58 PM
not 100% sure....but if you have both batteries hooked up to the charger then you are feeding current on both sides of the vsr which is why it is not likeing it. turn your switch to off thus disconnecting the vsr and then you can charge maintain the batteries. Or just hook the charger up to the stereo battery and once it is up to charge then the vsr will kick in and charge the motor battery i am assuming it is a dual sensing vsr .

brain_rinse
03-24-2010, 11:02 PM
I expected it to work that way too Doc, no dice. Charging one side, turning the switch to "off", even pulling the ground "sensing" wire from the VSR doesn't work. You have to completely remove the positive leads off the VSR before it will charge. So I'll be adding perko switches on both positive leads coming off the VSR and switch them off before charging.

DOCDRS
03-24-2010, 11:16 PM
is yours wired like this?
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=243&pictureid=1869

brain_rinse
03-25-2010, 09:24 AM
For the most part that looks the same. I have only 1 circuit breaker and I'm not sure where all the wires in that pic go, but the VSR is the same at least. And unless those positive leads are removed, regardless of switch position, the charger won't work.

DOCDRS
03-25-2010, 12:03 PM
well, i'll have to try my shore charger on mine

brain_rinse
03-25-2010, 02:07 PM
well, i'll have to try my shore charger on mine
I think a standard single stage charger will work fine. In fact that is the suggestion I got from ProMariner. The problem I'm having is that my charger senses battery voltage and has multiple charging stages. So both the VSR and the charger are sensing voltage and trying to react accordingly, and in the end they screw each other up.

mmandley
03-25-2010, 05:39 PM
You might need to get one of these then

http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/Xcart/product.php?productid=16506&cat=305&page=1

Dave at Earmark sent me this link. It simply cuts the VSR out of the equation while charging.

brain_rinse
03-25-2010, 08:10 PM
You got it, two of them actually.

EarmarkMarine
03-25-2010, 09:28 PM
When the BEP switch is 'off' the VSR is still in the circuit between the two batteries and closed when the voltage is high. So now a dual-bank charger cannot run independent programs although the two banks have different chmistry if for no other reason than they're used very differently.

Many ACR/VSRs have an ignition trigger, some combine and some separate depending on the intentions of the manufacturer. For those that separate this would consititute a small but continuous current draw while in storage. Not a good option.

On those ACR/VSRs that will open once the ground is cut, the manufacturer discourages this. I'm speculating, but I suspect that while there is no potential harm to the solenoid, the solid state electronics are designed to have a ground first and last in order to maintain their programming. Not sure how sophisticated the sensing circuits are but it seems logical.

Dual-Sensing ACR/VSRs versus priority charging versions would require a manual disconnect on both banks in order to eliminate the current sensing draw which disrupts the charger's ability to precisely profile both banks.

There are numerous other layers and frequently overlooked considerations in how you utilize and integrate an ACR/VSR into the rest of the charging system. There is no perfect charging system and single prescription that best fits every boat or every boater.

We support the SurePower product and upon gaining a clear understanding of your unique system, we package a comprehensive solution. It comes with clear instructions and illustrations. And, if something becomes problematic down the road we can provide diagnostic assistance which is even harder to get than the initial manufacturer support.

David
Earmark Marine