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View Full Version : Subwoofer under your feet?



kaneboats
03-18-2010, 11:34 AM
Why does everybody's design put the subwoofer right in front of the driver's feet? I think that would drive me nuts. I also think I might put my wet foot right into it. Is there some acoustic reason to locate it there? Or, is it just that there is no place else? On my Outback I put a subwoofer up high on the wall behind the observer's seat where it would stay dry (rollers over the bow every now and then, you know). It seemed to turn that whole area into a booming cavity. It really rocked the boat. I'd appreciate anyone's thougths on this.

Razzman
03-18-2010, 12:05 PM
My take on this from experience and such. Many put it there because the physical size of their setup won't fit anywhere else. Their setup may use a ported design that requires a large box and that's the only feasible place like Newty's. Others put it there for the ease of installation and it looks nice. Some people put it there for the visual effect, ya know the "hey look at my cool sub!".

On the flip side you can't even see mine, it's in a box bolted to the top of the footrest, facing the hull. It creates a surround sound type effect that actually travels around the compartments. For mine to get wet the boat would be swamped!

sandm
03-18-2010, 12:06 PM
I think it boils down to placing it where it won't eat up valuable storage space.
looking at where I mounted mine, the choices were under the helm at drivers feet, under the observers storage compartment, but that's full of lifejackets, towels and the docking ropes/buoys, not to mention the factory location of the amps, or in one of the rear storage compartments, and we know what goes back there :)

I've seen a few installs under the obervers storage area, and to me, that space is way to valuable to give up for a sub box, and the space under the helm is just wasted.

newty
03-18-2010, 12:45 PM
Space is the #1 reason. accoustically its not the best spot. I actually made mine a sealed enclosure and faced the sub forward about 3" from the back of my cut out. It sounds waaaaay better. I left the grill the way it was so it looks like the sub is still there. Subs need something to reverberate off of. Fireing at your feet isn't the best use of a sub. Unless its ported and the port faces the hull, but in the case of the LSV there isn't enough room to have a ported enclosure w/o some serious mods, or a sub that wants a very small box.

Razz's idea is the best provided the box and sub are small enough to fit. If you don't have a heater, that gives you a few more choices too for putting the sub in front of the hump.

philwsailz
03-18-2010, 02:32 PM
Acoustically it is about the center of the boat; not too bad a place most of the time. The other reason is kinda obvious; that is where it fits, easily. If you look at the OD of your grill, and start crawling around on the boat measuring, you wil lnot find a lot o places with the real estate to put a woofer...

Phil
Kicker

EarmarkMarine
03-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Pertaining to Moomba subwoofer locations heres a few considerations from an acoustic perspective.

A select few Moombas, some Outbacks for example, may not have a hump under the driver's helm console. In this case its a no brainer to place the sub under the dash. There's lots of room for a variety of subs and you can fit in a bass-reflex enclosure which is 50 percent larger but has decidedly more output. You only have to elevate the sub off the sole in how you mount the enclosure to provide drainage and avoid a moisture trap. A true marine-grade enclosure will last indefinitely and resist the occasional roller over the bow once elevated.

Most Moombas do have a hump under the dash. And, Moombas do not have as much vertical room under the dash as do Supras, for instance. And, in the last several year models this space over the hump has gotten a little tighter. So tight, in fact, that you may need to slightly relocate the fuse panel to fit in a side-firing 10-inch sealed subwoofer enclosure. Mounting bracketry for this is a little tricky but you've got enough internal displacement of .6 cu. ft. net to facilitate some very good 10-inch woofers. This location is your best shot for a musical, articulate subwoofer with good transient response and tonal construction. Its totally concealed and with the addition of a carpeted facade it will completely disappear.

Many people cut up the hump to fit something bigger in. Personally, I'm not a fan of that and also I don't like stealing away any of the leg/foot room.

The only reason to go over to the port locker and sacrifice the valuable storage space is if you want a larger subwoofer, like a 12-inch, and perhaps in a larger bass-reflex enclosure. This is a solidly-built compartment and when the observer seat is closed it will substantially alter the woofer's performance. Will it boom and rumble and hit from within the closed comparment? Sure. But , you've created more of a boat-shaker than a bass-maker and both the woofer and amplifier are going to be taxed to overcome the chocking effect of the enclosed locker. And, you can say goodbye to many of the more musical aspects of the bass, although not everyone is going to be that discerning. You can, to a great degree, remedy this by installing a vent to allow the bass radiation to freely pass. Optimumly, the vent should have a pass-through surface area equal to the collective subwoofer and bass reflex port.

Another option is to use a true marine free-air 10-inch subwoofer in the face of the hump in front of the driver's feet. The sub will utilize the bilge as its enclosure. Optimumly a free-air sub would like to have 3 cubic feet to infinity of unobstructed enclosure displacement. However, the baffle must be isolated front-to-rear. Its important to seal up the top of the hump where the cables enter/exit. Any penetrations on the opposite or port side are too remote of a pathlength to have any impact so only worry about those in near proximity to the woofer. Also, many of the humps have a very thin fiberglass construction. Its not a bad idea to overlay another panel clad in matching carpet to add rigidity to this surface.

David
Earmark Marine

you da man
03-18-2010, 06:43 PM
^^^Everybody got that right?

Brianinpdx
03-18-2010, 08:44 PM
As things apply in the tournament boat world I see locations as 1 of two options:

1 - you make the best of your under helm area or,
2 - you use up your valuable cubby space.

I think ultimately, in the real world people opt to use their foot area in lieu of giving up storage space. It does make sense to some degree.

And I alsothink some people go over board. I've got people trying to stuff 15's into area that is incredibly tight! This ends up yielding VERY little foot space.

It seems like the same questions keep coming up over and over again about what size woofer, the trade offs between 10's and 12's. Free air and vented or sealed etc. And then of course what type of materials to use for an enclosure.

To tease the group a little bit.... I'll share this.

We put our minds together about 3 months ago and designed a bass SOLUTION for the Moomba crowd. This will be an Exile enclosure engineered for Moomba's LSV helm that offers 1.7cu's , venting from the top to boundary load into the helm area, a forward facing woofer to satisfy the bling of boat owners, all built from reinforced duramax expanded pvc plastic's and some radical glue technology.... The enclosure will even have a kick plate system to lift it off the ground to stop any potential moisture build up.

Since this product is in development, I dont want to get into selfish brand promotion pricing crap.... My point is to just share with you guys the direction we are heading and why, as it applies to the Ops question.

If you'd like visuals on this , PM me. I'm not really sure how to post it up

peace

-Brian

ps: this system will work with our woofer or most other 12's on the market :)

EarmarkMarine
03-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Brian,

So what you are saying is that the mouth of the port will exit up into the helm cavity while the woofer will be direct radiating and aimed out toward the driver?

Will you have to cut out the hump?

Is it 1.7 cu. ft. net displacement with or without the volume of the port?

David
Earmark Marine

ian ashton
03-18-2010, 10:50 PM
I have 2 Kicker L7's in my boat; one behind the spotters seat in the stoarage compartment, and one under the drivers dash. It doesn't much interfere with my leg room, and it fit perfectly in there. I did it because it was easy, and sounds great.

mmandley
03-19-2010, 09:54 AM
I was refraining from talking about this Brain glad you did first hahah. This is the box Exile has been designing for my boat. Its a big reason my boat is at there shop to begin with. They have been taking measurements and trying lots of ideas to see whats working and what doesn't.

Dave to answer you question best i can, the 1.7 is the box its self with the port section. Its a very big box and takes a lot of room but one of my restrictions i gave Exile was it cant be take up any more room the my original L5 box i had built in Nov. This means it cant cross the cup holders in the drivers helm.

No there is no cutting involved in this installation. Exile wants to make sure they can sell these boxes to regular people and they can install the box in there boat with no modifications.

Only thing you should have to do is remove the seat to allow access room then the box has a specific angle you slide it in at and then turn it to place it against the hump.

I hope to have all the pictures needed this weekend. This box should be done today at at Exile tomorrow when i go for my final installations.

kaneboats
03-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Excellent! I guess the answer to my question is really that there's just about nowhere else to put it and if you stash it in the storage area it gets muffled. I put the subw in my Outback up high on the outside wall in the storage area so it barely interfered with the space. When we parked to hang out I'd prop open the seat back to hear it better. A compromise to be sure but I wanted it dry.

bradcraig78
03-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Brian I sent PM. very interested

Brianinpdx
03-19-2010, 08:24 PM
David -

Yes, mouth of port exits up into helm cavity. In exploring the different options we felt this was the best setup as it gives the owner a bit of bling factor by using forward facing woofer, and we still utilize some of the cabin effect from porting this way. We also did a version firing up and porting up but felt it was just to stealth. People say they want stealth but in the end people want to show there stuff off.

- Gross vol is 1.825. It's changes around a bit. sorry for the bad info before.

- Internal bracing is made to rest / support our Big12 due to weight issues of the woofer itself. It's a beast.

- Forgot to mention where using all stainless mounting hardware and the bottom of the enclosure has a foot system that lifts it off the floor to eliminate moisture.

- You asked about the hump.... as Mike said it goes right over it. Felt like we had to design this way so the DIY user doesnt have to hack apart his boat.

here's a link to the enclosure itself. you guys filled up my mailbox. sheeez! Got box?

-Brian

http://www.exileaudio.com/exileLSVbox.avi

viking
03-20-2010, 01:40 AM
Hey Brian,
tried the link at the end of your post and it didn't want to work? Maybe it was just me??



David -

Yes, mouth of port exits up into helm cavity. In exploring the different options we felt this was the best setup as it gives the owner a bit of bling factor by using forward facing woofer, and we still utilize some of the cabin effect from porting this way. We also did a version firing up and porting up but felt it was just to stealth. People say they want stealth but in the end people want to show there stuff off.

- Gross vol is 1.825. It's changes around a bit. sorry for the bad info before.

- Internal bracing is made to rest / support our Big12 due to weight issues of the woofer itself. It's a beast.

- Forgot to mention where using all stainless mounting hardware and the bottom of the enclosure has a foot system that lifts it off the floor to eliminate moisture.

- You asked about the hump.... as Mike said it goes right over it. Felt like we had to design this way so the DIY user doesnt have to hack apart his boat.

here's a link to the enclosure itself. you guys filled up my mailbox. sheeez! Got box?

-Brian

http://www.exileaudio.com/exileLSVbox.avi

2007 Outback V
03-20-2010, 01:53 AM
Hey Brian,
tried the link at the end of your post and it didn't want to work? Maybe it was just me??

download a codec package for your media player. Bet it will work then http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm

Brianinpdx
03-20-2010, 04:40 AM
gotta admit, thats one nasty woofer eh?

mmandley
03-20-2010, 10:16 AM
If should be called the small 15 i think LOL. Its got the same size voive coil as the 15 and the same weight magnet if i recall.

Brian finaly got my Big 12 in last night and he said its a beast.

viking
03-20-2010, 04:45 PM
download a codec package for your media player. Bet it will work then http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm

THANX - worked like a charm!!

bradcraig78
03-20-2010, 08:42 PM
Which Codec did you download? Downloaded bunch different ones and still cant get it to play.

bradcraig78
03-20-2010, 08:52 PM
nevermind got it to play.