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View Full Version : Gas 87, 89, or 92?



ausbill32
04-06-2010, 05:19 PM
Which type do you fill up with?

Razzman
04-06-2010, 05:27 PM
This question comes up a lot whether here or other forums. I fill with what the maufacturer recommends. The reason? Because the engines are tuned to run on a specific octane optimally. 87 octane and your not getting the full potential and inviting knock or ping. With 91/92 your wasting your money as the engine isn't tuned to use it. Remember everything is controlled via the computer and the parameters that's programmed into it.

Aslo remember that marine engines have higher profile cams and modifieded chambers and consequently higher compression for the most part and need that octane boost the 89 provides.

ausbill32
04-06-2010, 05:32 PM
I put 89 in the LSV but I use to run 87 in my old 2006 Supra 21v and I never had an issue. Just curious if anyone else is running anything other than 89. This past weekend out I averaged about 5 gallons an hour.

skiyaker
04-06-2010, 05:34 PM
is there any difference depending which engine you have? i.e. 325 vs 340 cat?

brain_rinse
04-06-2010, 05:42 PM
I'll second what Razz said above, but add that I use 91 because the 89 here contains 10% ethanol.

Razzman
04-06-2010, 05:48 PM
I put 89 in the LSV but I use to run 87 in my old 2006 Supra 21v and I never had an issue. Just curious if anyone else is running anything other than 89. This past weekend out I averaged about 5 gallons an hour.

I agree you may never have an issue running 87, but your engine is working harder to stay effiecient.

Razzman
04-06-2010, 05:49 PM
is there any difference depending which engine you have? i.e. 325 vs 340 cat?

Couldn't say, the owners manual has a specific recommendation for octane and they're pretty adamant about it if you read it.

maxpower220
04-06-2010, 07:38 PM
I use 87 most of the time, like when I will be running the boat often (summer). I will put 89 in for the winter storage with stabil. Every station around here has ethanol in it.

Those computers are very smart, they can adjust many settings (A/F ratio, timing, etc) to compensate for your octane; just like your car. I haven't heard a car engine "ping" from poor fuel in YEARS. Our boats are much freer flowing (intake and exhaust) than any car, so they can easily run the different cam profiles. However, these engines are not much different in spec to many cars/trucks on the road today (and yesterday). Only a dyno will be able to tell you any difference in hp/tq/performance between the different octanes.

2007 Outback V
04-06-2010, 07:58 PM
87 octane 10% corn oil.

Never an issue


Shoot, we all run E-85 in the Midwest. No problems, and it's good for our fish friends too! :p

kaneboats
04-06-2010, 08:25 PM
In my 2000 Outback I ran 87. I think the boat manual said to run 89 but the Indmar manual said 87 was OK. No problems at all and great performance. I have only run 89 in the LSV though. Not sure if I would put in 87 with 10% ethanol. Maybe I'll try it this summer.

brain_rinse
04-06-2010, 08:42 PM
Ethanol absorbs moisture, burns hotter, and produces less energy than gasoline. Not attractive qualities, especially for marine engines. Many people use it without issue, though it has caused plenty of problems as well.

moombadaze
04-06-2010, 09:22 PM
been running 87 during the summer and am NOT able to find any gas stations without that damm ethanol in it.

The last 2 fills up before winter time I try and put in the top shelf stuff with stabil added.

jester
04-06-2010, 09:54 PM
I run 91 and also have that stupid 10% because it is law. Also the station in my area that sales non 10% is out of the way and a pain to get into and out of with a boat. I can get 91 for less then i can get 89 so that is why i use 91. Would use 89 if it was less then 91.

zabooda
04-06-2010, 11:18 PM
The cheapest gas. The way it guzzles gas it doesn't matter.

zegm
04-06-2010, 11:43 PM
Octane rating is just how much pressure the fuel will take before it ignites due to the compression (compress gasoline enough and it will explode without a spark). If a compression ratio is high you need a higher octane fuel that takes more pressure before it ignites. You actually don't want the pressure to ignite the fuel (unless you have a diesel which is how they work, no plugs no tune ups they use the compression 18 to 20 to 1 to ingite the fuel) you want the spark to start it a few degrees before top dead center (depends on the engine) as the explosion is NOT Instantaneous but it actually takes the fuel explosion/expansion/burn/flame front some time to get its full potential. So you hit the ignition just before TDC (top dead center) so that the fuel is really expanding the best by the time the piston is fulling up and now on the downward stroke. Now if it sparks before this there is MORE of the expansion of the gasses on the piston as it is still rising and that can damage an engine (thats the knock you are hearing). It can also cause an engine to run hot and damage it. Now most new modern engines have Knock sensors and if they sense the engine is doing pre-ignition they will modify the timing and maybe adjust the fuel map some. So most engines will run on several grades but you DO loose power if you have a high compression engine as you are not allowing it to run as it was designed as the computer is detuning it. However, not all engines are high compression and the guys you see putting super into their Pintos are actually going to loose power as the fuel is too slow buring for a low compression engine. The best bet is to put what the manufacturer recommends. We use 89 in our Moomba.

Maxpower, 2 years ago on a super hot summer day I got some 87 with ethanol in Dothan for the Silverado. On the way home towing the boat I had a can of marbles under the hood! Even though most Chevys say use 87 while towing I would bump that up a grade! Or do as I did and buy a detonation engine! :-)

sandm
04-07-2010, 10:58 AM
^^ well put. cracks me up to see people in ford focus' filling up with premium. what a waste.. the computers are so smart anymore that if you consistently run 87, the computer will retard the timing enough to allow it, but you are losing power. the only negative to running ethanol-blended gas is the ability to vapor lock due to the lower boiling point and the fact that most of our boats have the fuel pump at the engine instead of in-tank. they vapor lock due to trying to pull the fuel rather than pushing it to the engine. most of the local import guys here have ditched premium gas and tuned their turbo'ed 4bangers for e-85 due to it's racegas octane levels and cheap price.

Razzman
04-07-2010, 11:18 AM
Ok so i have to ask this question. So i'll stand corrected on the computer thing, looks like it may be self adjusting like auto computers and It looks like many here run 87, but why? Indmar says run 89, you run 87 and your saving what? $4.00 or less? So what's the benefit? The $4?

zegm
04-07-2010, 11:29 AM
Ok so i have to ask this question. So i'll stand corrected on the computer thing, looks like it may be self adjusting like auto computers and It looks like many here run 87, but why? Indmar says run 89, you run 87 and your saving what? $4.00 or less? So what's the benefit? The $4?

I would say the only benefit is the savings of the 4.00 dollars. There are so many factors/variables about this issue, what is the outside temperature, what is the engine temperature, what is the load on the engine, how old is the gas. Now if certain conditions are met you could probably never detonate using 87 oct. But detonation can really damage an engine if it happens often. It doesn't make sense to not spend the 4.00 dollars. But my father in law who has millions WOULD save the 4 dollars! ;)

PS one other factor here not spoken about but certainly one Indmar is thinking about is when the fuel sits it loses its octane rating and since boats are not continously used it would be a good idea to start good (89) so that after time with no usage you would end up ok (87).

kaneboats
04-07-2010, 01:18 PM
I'll have to think that over. I usually fill up right before hitting the water and use up most of it the same day, then repeat. I could probably get away with 87. Not sure if the power loss means you actually burn more of the 87 so the savings get eaten up though.

I usually put in around 25 gallons at a fill up. The 89 is around .07 more per gallon. That means I'd pay $1.75 more for the 89. This is a no brainer; I'll continue to use the 89.

sandm
04-07-2010, 01:27 PM
good move. I have a murano that spec's premium as it's the same motor in the 350z, but I run 87 since we are not looking for the performance out of it. it states in the manual that you can run regular, but that performance will suffer. it's a 2ton suv, not a vette. makes sense. in a boat, run what's recommended since you are lugging the motor when you are trying to surf/wakeboard.

Razzman
04-07-2010, 01:53 PM
I would say the only benefit is the savings of the 4.00 dollars. There are so many factors/variables about this issue, what is the outside temperature, what is the engine temperature, what is the load on the engine, how old is the gas. Now if certain conditions are met you could probably never detonate using 87 oct. But detonation can really damage an engine if it happens often. It doesn't make sense to not spend the 4.00 dollars. But my father in law who has millions WOULD save the 4 dollars! ;)

PS one other factor here not spoken about but certainly one Indmar is thinking about is when the fuel sits it loses its octane rating and since boats are not continously used it would be a good idea to start good (89) so that after time with no usage you would end up ok (87).

Which is exactly one reason i use the 89. It gets HOT here in the summer, July through August are in the 100's with a 105-110 stretch every year. I def don't need the engine working any harder than it has too.

Razzman
04-07-2010, 01:56 PM
I'll have to think that over. I usually fill up right before hitting the water and use up most of it the same day, then repeat. I could probably get away with 87. Not sure if the power loss means you actually burn more of the 87 so the savings get eaten up though.

I usually put in around 25 gallons at a fill up. The 89 is around .07 more per gallon. That means I'd pay $1.75 more for the 89. This is a no brainer; I'll continue to use the 89.

That was my point, if I have to worry about cost difference then i shouldn't have a boat! :p

mmandley
04-07-2010, 02:00 PM
This conversation was talked over last summer too LOL.

This is what my experiences with Fuel have been.

Had a car that said run 89 in it. I ran 87 and got 220 miles a tank. Car pinged and had no guts. Ran 89 car was a rocket and i got 300 miles off the same tank. Car was designed for 89 and thats what it ran best on.

Older cars i ran 87 and then 89 or 91 and never saw a difference.

Big Blue runs on 87, in fact the gyphon High Performance computer is tuned for 87 because she drinks it as fast as Fierah does. Never put 89 or 91 in Blue it doesnt care.

Fierah i was told 89, i only put 89 and it has nothing to do with cost. Its what AWS said run in the boat, i love the way it runs and a couple bucks at that pump is nothing to me as i average 100 bucks a day between Blue and Fierah and beer LOL

kaneboats
04-07-2010, 02:46 PM
You must not drink very much beer (or they're still brewing that OLY stuff).

Razzman
04-07-2010, 03:49 PM
You must not drink very much beer (or they're still brewing that OLY stuff).

Bwahaha! :p

viking
04-07-2010, 04:03 PM
You must not drink very much beer (or they're still brewing that OLY stuff).

You're pretty close to where they brew that Raineer too :p

polar21
04-07-2010, 04:20 PM
So what about use old school guys with carb'd motors? I am currently running 89 and havent tried the 87 stuff. The $4/tank isnt that big of a deal, until you are filling up 5-6x a month like I have been

squeeg333
04-07-2010, 04:39 PM
I'll only run 89 in my LSV. Mostly because it's recommended in the manual, but also because it gives me a nice feeling feeding my baby "better" gas. Like you guys are pointing out, the few dollars at the pump kinda come out as a wash when you think about filling the tow rig, the beer, and the beers to keep the beer cold. Can never have too much!

I am curious if any of you guys run Stabil on the regular. I've only run my boat 5 times so far since being an owner, but those 5 times I used the everyday Stabil. I was a little worried about the Vapor Lock, and heard the Stabil would help with that, so I didn't see an issue. I don't know if it's necessary to put Stabil in every time, but just curious if anyone else ran this way.

mcdye
04-07-2010, 05:02 PM
I am curious if any of you guys run Stabil on the regular. I've only run my boat 5 times so far since being an owner, but those 5 times I used the everyday Stabil. I was a little worried about the Vapor Lock, and heard the Stabil would help with that, so I didn't see an issue. I don't know if it's necessary to put Stabil in every time, but just curious if anyone else ran this way.

I run 89 and Stabil on each gas up.

Razzman
04-07-2010, 05:06 PM
I only run stabil when winterizing, the boat doesn't sit long enough on season to worry about it. It really does no good if you use it regularly at least every 3-4weeks.

mmandley
04-07-2010, 05:55 PM
I wouldnt worry about the Stabil in WA up in the NW its very rare to be so hot we have vapor lock problems. I see more of the southern guys with that issue. The longest my boat sat last summer was 2 weeks with 1/4 tank from 7/4 to 7/18 we filled her up and she ran great.

Razzman
04-07-2010, 06:00 PM
And the only ones i see with the vapor lock issue are the guys that have to run ethanol. Never had the issue here, but we don't have ethanol either.

mmandley
04-07-2010, 06:12 PM
You must not drink very much beer (or they're still brewing that OLY stuff).

HAHA i said my expence, my crew knows dont come on my boat with out plenty of beer, you can chip in for gas if you want but Beer is required. Angry owner = no straight lines when being pulled lol. Extra rollers for you lol

stretch55
04-07-2010, 06:51 PM
I rum 89 also. I ran 87 once and ran like Sh*t. 91 just doesn't seem worth it. So my 2cents is go with 89.

jester
04-07-2010, 07:17 PM
HAHA i said my expence, my crew knows dont come on my boat with out plenty of beer, you can chip in for gas if you want but Beer is required. Angry owner = no straight lines when being pulled lol. Extra rollers for you lol

hahah but drunk driver = no straight lines when being pulled. You have a dilemma on this one.

So last summer some friends where going to make me a shirt that said "The boat does not run on thanks. GRASS, CASH or ASS" On the back " I dont smoke so i do not need grass, I have a good job so do not need Cash. Guess that leaves you one option"

kaneboats
04-07-2010, 11:27 PM
You're supposed to read that manual when you buy the boat. Course, you live in FL so you're like me and probably over 75 like the rest of the folks down here so we forget . . . what was I saying? Oh yeah, that deep dish pizza sure is good. . . . .

zegm
04-08-2010, 12:12 AM
I'

I am curious if any of you guys run Stabil on the regular. I've only run my boat 5 times so far since being an owner, but those 5 times I used the everyday Stabil. I was a little worried about the Vapor Lock, and heard the Stabil would help with that, so I didn't see an issue. I don't know if it's necessary to put Stabil in every time, but just curious if anyone else ran this way.

What I did seem to notice from postings on the board was that the vapor lock was mostly a V drive issue and this must mean that the fuel pump on the v-drive is situated in a place where it is hotter and not getting any airflow vs the DD. I too am forced to run the corn squeezins and live in Hot Florida but never experienced the vapor lock with our LS.
PS My company sits on property that is leased to us from Chevron. Not 200ft away are the fuel tanks (HUGE) that barges come in and reload every 4 days. I am good friends with the Chevron people and they explained that the big black stain coming down from the top of the ethanol tank is mold from the sugar! And we were wondering since they modified this tank and started putting ethanol in it is that why we are all having sinus problems now. A huge black ethanol mold mess!!! OH and when I asked them about a Emergency Plan for our company they said with the ethanol there now if she goes there is no need for a plan! Great!!! :confused:

kaneboats
04-08-2010, 09:28 AM
You may want to consider how it could affect the prop testing. Burn up all your 87 and get some 89 in there. There could be a noticeable difference in performance.

moombadaze
04-08-2010, 11:25 AM
well crap, after reading all these post I think I will start using the 89

ausbill32
04-08-2010, 02:41 PM
Wow, I didn't think my original post would make it to 5 pages....lol

89 it is !!

jester
04-08-2010, 02:46 PM
OH and when I asked them about a Emergency Plan for our company they said with the ethanol there now if she goes there is no need for a plan! Great!!! :confused:

Well atleast you now know. Just think of all your coworkers that will run when you know that will be a waste of energy and you can just sit back and enjoy the show. Knowlage is power.

Sled491
04-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Ethanol absorbs moisture, burns hotter, and produces less energy than gasoline. Not attractive qualities, especially for marine engines. Many people use it without issue, though it has caused plenty of problems as well.

We have no choice here, so I can say that I run it 100% of the time. I do use an ensyme additive that is supposed to counter the effects of the ethanol.

To stay true to the thread I run 89 about 99% of the time. My boat runs almost every day though from may until october so my gas is always fresh. I never fill to the top except for the first time I put it in the water and I think that is key.

zegm
04-08-2010, 11:22 PM
Well atleast you now know. Just think of all your coworkers that will run when you know that will be a waste of energy and you can just sit back and enjoy the show. Knowlage is power.

Jester,
Thanks! That is a good positive way to look at it! :D

PS I am in a good mood today as I was able to visit the Ducati Dealer and sit on my future bike! Now who is going to speak to my wife about how safe street bikes are?

Sled491
04-08-2010, 11:28 PM
Z your on your own there :D

zegm
04-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Well if I get the Ducati I will put 93 octane in it as it is like 11.5 to 1 compression.
You know the wife is doing the same thing she did with the Moomba. Refusing to go see the Ducatis. And the Moomba is to blame because as sure as I got her to the show she was telling me what options to order and to hurry up and get the order in.
Now, she sees a pretty RED Ducati and I know it is over, she might even want her own! Wouldn't she look good on a little red 696 Monster!? Again it would get 93 octane too! We went to see the USS Alabama and then to Mobile Museum of Art. I would have to say the Ducati could have sat in that art museum and fit right in. Man those Italians!!!!

Sled491
04-08-2010, 11:39 PM
I'm just betting she is more worried about the tickets than the other people.

jjolson
04-08-2010, 11:50 PM
Either airplane fuel or nitromethane

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sandm
04-09-2010, 12:35 PM
zegm, which duc you looking at?

took me a year of convincing to get 2 wheels. started on a 150cc scooter. 4 years and 3 "real" bikes later, Im on an '08zx6 and LOVE it.. my roommate has a honda cbr1000 repsol. I'm dying to swap him for a stint, but don't think it'll happen..

perhaps a trip up to the dragon once you get one?

Razzman
04-09-2010, 12:47 PM
she might even want her own!

Don't be suprised! I rode for 25 years without her showing much interest, in fact i had three bikes when we got married. She grew up with bikes, heck i even rode with her brother in high school! Then suddenly she starts seeing other women riding their own and suddenly says "I want my own Harley!" Whoa! But being independent as she is I knew it was futile so i sent her to the motorcycle safety course and she graduated second in class and the only woman. Bought her a used Sportster and it wasn't long before she wanted a Lowrider, GEEZ! She rode five years and one day said "I'm done". She'd had her fun and that was that.

Sled491
04-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Funny women are like that. My wife does the same thing

zegm
04-09-2010, 05:24 PM
I am looking at the new Ducati 796 Hypermotard, a Red one of course.

My wife and I have ridden dirtbikes for years (20+), I have had several Maicos and a couple KTMs (Ok before I realized 2 -strokes were awesome I had a few Honda's 4-strokes). My wife has had a Maico 250 and then several KTM's from 125cc to 250cc before settling on a KTM 200. When we moved to Florida there was no place to ride so we sold all the dirt bikes. Now I did have a street bike way back when so I decided to look at them as I have not been so long without a motorcycle and my sons Honda 50cc doesn't count. So I visited my local Euro bike dealer I sat on a couple street bikes. Wow, I decided I cannot get used to the wide, low, heavy feel of the street bikes. The guy at the dealership said "oh you are a dirt biker" and I said yes. He said sit on one of these hyper motards. Well that did it, I can handle the narrow and upright light feel of these bikes. So now the job has begun! So you can see why the wife is not wanting to go, she would want one too. So now the job is to get the wife to the motorcycle shop!!! :D
http://www.ducati.com/bikes/hypermotard/796/index.do

kaneboats
04-10-2010, 01:20 AM
Oh crap! Better never let me sit on one of those-- being a lifelong dirtbiker.

We stick to the Honda 4 strokes around here. I like the 1 kick reliability. Have yet to see ANY 2 stroke that gives you that.

cbboarder
04-10-2010, 12:16 PM
Back to the fuel issue. This might be a stupid question but is the gas purchased from the marina any different than the gas at the corner store? I've never noticed the octane rating and since there's only one pump my choices are limited. Obviously, the price is much higher but time is money!

In addition, I know the gas we buy in the Atlanta metro area has additives for smog but in the North Georgia Mountains (lake house) it's not required.

zegm
04-10-2010, 09:23 PM
Oh crap! Better never let me sit on one of those-- being a lifelong dirtbiker.

We stick to the Honda 4 strokes around here. I like the 1 kick reliability. Have yet to see ANY 2 stroke that gives you that.

Well you haven't been reading anything about the new 4-stroke motorcrossers. And you never had a KTM or Maico 2 stroke. I will place a bet on all of the above. And finally I do have 2 Honda 4 strokes here right now and I bet you again you can't get either one to start on the first kick. :lol:

Marina gas should not be any different other than a higher price and maybe a different type of tax. But you are also right some little Marina's only have one octane rating and sometimes it is not posted as to what you are purchasing.

Moseley618
04-10-2010, 09:40 PM
The marina told me that they only sell 89 octane gas and all marina fuel on our lake is Ethanol free.

Sled491
04-11-2010, 01:01 AM
CB, fuel should be the same, but be cautioned that if the marina isn't that busy, the fuel might not be as fresh as say with a busy hwy gas station. Old gas means lost Octane.

Z, what does this little slice of freedom cost? :D

zegm
04-11-2010, 03:41 AM
Sled,

Are you talking about the Ducati?

10k

I never knew that streetbikes were "pound for pound" so much cheaper than dirtbikes! I am not really talking about Ducatis here but a nice Euor or Japanese 450 dirt bike will run you around 7k! Look and see what that will buy you in a Japanese streetbike!

Sled491
04-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Right, but still in 1989 a CR 125 cost 895.00 Canadian

zegm
04-11-2010, 10:55 AM
Wow that is cheap!
Now that the same folks who think we need ethanol have decided to kill 2 stroke dirt bikes what does a CRF250 cost today since it is the replacement for the CR125.

Sled491
04-11-2010, 11:23 AM
I thought about 5K but I may be wrong. And at the time we didn't think the price was cheap, we thought it was reasonable and affordable.

moombadaze
04-11-2010, 11:55 AM
reasonable and affordable.

2 words getting tougher and tougher to say together

maxpower220
04-11-2010, 12:09 PM
The SM-like bikes are great. I love my aprilia, looks good and handles great. 45 mpg is pretty good too. I vary the fuel 87-91 and I can't tell any difference in performance. At @ $6 a fill up, the cost between fuels is little.

moombadaze
04-11-2010, 12:12 PM
Been driving my wifes civic all week as she was visiting the inlaws-her car cost me $11 to fill-my truck $45. might have to rethink getting a bike again-even thou I said I wouldnt if we got the LSV:D

moombadaze
04-11-2010, 12:13 PM
Maxpowers-awsom looking bike, I would like to get the enduro style

Sled491
04-11-2010, 08:29 PM
I heard good things about the Aprilia. But the Duc looks good.

zegm
04-11-2010, 08:45 PM
Yeah I have gone back and forth between Aprilia and Ducati and they are both gorgeous bikes. Right now I am on the Ducati side. But that is good because between the 2 of us we would have one of each of these awesome Italian bikes!
I do like the Super/Hyper Motard seating position as it is taken directly from a dirtbike. You are ready and prepared to do anything in this position, where as I don't know how you react quickly on a cruiser?

Sled491
04-12-2010, 12:25 AM
cruiser no, crotch rocket yes.

zegm
04-12-2010, 09:05 AM
Looking at your avatar that makes sense!!! ;)

AaronWhitt82
04-23-2010, 04:41 AM
The 87 and 89 octanes at the BP and Shell stations in my town all have ethanol added EXCEPT the 92/93 octanes are all ethanol FREE.
One weird thing I noticed is that the Phillips 66 has 87, 89, & 92, but the 89 is ethanol free and the 87 and 92 have ethanol added. Also, the 87 is 10 cents higher than the 89.
I always run 89 and sometimes put a little bit of premium in. I also like to add the red bottle of Heet once in a while along with a carb/fuel system cleaner/treatment.

mbkillin
04-23-2010, 07:07 AM
So what about use old school guys with carb'd motors? I am currently running 89 and havent tried the 87 stuff. The $4/tank isnt that big of a deal, until you are filling up 5-6x a month like I have been

I actually run 93 with 10% ethanol due to my rebuilt motor and a good pal at the engine shop advising it due the increased compression. But then again not many 5.8s have 360 HP in boats at least. She may be a old 92 roo but boy she will hop lol

Sled491
04-25-2010, 08:32 PM
I bet Z would like a rip in that one :)

mbkillin
04-25-2010, 11:04 PM
Oh its a trip that's for sure. Ya should see the looks from the 50k mastercrafts when we go by them on the top end.

viking
04-26-2010, 12:40 AM
i'd like to see a pic of her?

mbkillin
04-26-2010, 06:42 AM
got some up now not great ones but i got em