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LSV04
04-13-2010, 02:44 PM
Having trouble landing on the downside of wake. I'm landing in flats and landings are hard. If I let up I can get rotation. Any help appreciated.

Jeff W
04-13-2010, 03:47 PM
Having trouble landing on the downside of wake. I'm landing in flats and landings are hard. If I let up I can get rotation. Any help appreciated.

start your cut a little closer to the wake.. you'll get the same pop but shouldn't get booted into the flats as far

yearround
04-13-2010, 04:17 PM
congrats on getting them! i am having trouble getting the guts to attempt one!

polar21
04-13-2010, 04:47 PM
^^^ I am with you on that one. I cant seem to grow the "berries" to actually try a tantrum or a backroll. I almost have a w2w 360 down but that is as far as I have gotten. My goal this year is to land a tantrum.

JesseC
04-13-2010, 04:47 PM
congrats on getting them! i am having trouble getting the guts to attempt one!

Drink a beer, throw on a helmet and just go try one. This was one of the easiest inverts to learn and the crashes really were not that bad. Much easier to learn than Tantrums and Raleys. Most of the crashes involve your jewels and the top of the wake. I did not do any face plants, just a lot of skipping out.

LSV04
04-13-2010, 05:57 PM
Thanks guys.That's how I fell yesterday,landed in flats and board skid out. Hey Jesse, how do you stop skipping out?
And guys, I was biggest chicken, just go for it, I tried first few at 16-18 mph.just so you get feel.
And catching an edge on a 3 is worse than backroll crashes.

LSV04
04-13-2010, 06:00 PM
Thanks Jeff, I'll shorten it up.

JesseC
04-13-2010, 06:37 PM
Hey Jesse, how do you stop skipping out?


Like they said above shorten your approach and land closer to the wake. I have found that the trick to landing backrolls out in the flats is to spot the landing early. Are you able to spot your landing or are you just landing blind (eyes closed)? When I was landing that way I had a tendancy to keep the board flat and would just kind of skip and then end up on my arse. If you can spot the landing early and set your edge then landing in the flats is not an issue. More than likely you are just landing flat and skipping instead of landing on edge and riding away. This took me a while to get passed.

LSV04
04-14-2010, 12:26 AM
Definitely adrenaline blindness. After you leave wake are you looking for landing or it just happens. I guess I'm asking how you see it , its so fast.

polar21
04-14-2010, 10:04 AM
How do you generate enough pop to initiate the backroll? I know if you have a good size wake it almost looks like the rider is just riding up the wake and the wake initiates the rotation. However, I have seen people on much smaller wakes throw backrolls. What gives?

Jeff W
04-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Definitely adrenaline blindness. After you leave wake are you looking for landing or it just happens. I guess I'm asking how you see it , its so fast.

When you leave the wake, just look UP and relax. Don't try to spot the landing on a back roll or you will make your flip off axis. The guys on the boat this weekend were harping the same thing over and over - the more relaxed and the less you think about it - the easier the back roll is.. Shorten up the cut a little bit to get you landing in the trough, look up when you hit the roll and do NOT huck the twist off the wake. Let the wake and your line tension do the work. Seems very common for people to want to huck it and you throw yourself off badly that way.

Jeff W
04-14-2010, 10:11 AM
How do you generate enough pop to initiate the backroll? I know if you have a good size wake it almost looks like the rider is just riding up the wake and the wake initiates the rotation. However, I have seen people on much smaller wakes throw backrolls. What gives?

Backrolls aren't about wake size. If you watch super old videos of Parks and Byerly and those guys - they were doing backrolls off an I/O wake with no weight running 60 foot lines with no ballast..

It's just about loading the line properly, taking a progressive cut and looking up and over your shoulders. You can't huck it and "throw" the roll, you have to let it happen.

maxpower220
04-14-2010, 10:25 AM
Most of the described issues sound like improper edging and line tension techniques. Progressive edging and good line tension at the wake will do most of the "work" in starting the backroll. You will need to turn your head to get your body moving in the desired direction, eyes open so you can spot the landing, and be prepared to get an edge in the water on landing to prevent 'skipping out'.

For a tantrum, try (without a board) doing a few backflips off of your swim platform into the water. Start by using your head to look backwards, leaning your head back. This starts your body movements. Once you try on the board behind the boat, progressive edge to the wake. Once you feel the "pop" off of the wake, tilt your head back and start the rotation. Proper line tension will aid in the rotation. Draw your knees up to help rotate at first.

LSV04
04-14-2010, 10:26 AM
It all is in the cut and loading the line. Hold on to something strong on land at chest level. Bend knees a little and let all your weight fall back against what you are holding. Arms straight or slightly bent. This is what it should feel like at take off. That's where all energ6 comes from,not speed. Probably why it looks effortless.

JesseC
04-14-2010, 11:16 AM
On backrolls, I just relax stand tall and put my chin on my leading shoulder. By doing this you can almost spot the landing immediately. I have found that the earlier I spot the wake, the easier it is to land. You can make adjustments and set your edge early. The more of them you do the easier it is to keep your eyes open. The motion eventually becomes second hand and you will find that spotting the other wake will almost happen immediately. I have the opposite problem as above, if I do not spot the landing I usually skip out or just get lucky on the landing. I would almost be willing to say that I have ridden out every backroll where I have spotted the landing. Well, except for the ones that go wrong from the get go and I realize I am looking at sky insted of water....cover your jewels and just tuck and roll!!!

JesseC
04-14-2010, 11:24 AM
About two years ago, we wanted to see how high we could boot a backroll and stall them out. By going higher instead of further I really learned to spot my landings. In the video below I spotted the wake early and realized I was over rotating, dropped my back hand to stop the rotation and barely rode it out. The backroll is kinda ugly, but the only one I have access to on video right now.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/th_stalledbackroll.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/?action=view&current=stalledbackroll.flv)

LSV04
04-16-2010, 11:46 AM
Hold on to something , bend knees s little and let your weight lean back against what you are holding which would be the rope. This is what it should feel like when you are riding up the wake. This is loading the line which pops you real hard. Then you initiate backroll by looking over shoulder the rest should follow.

LSV04
04-16-2010, 12:02 PM
Jessie,
Couldn't watch video from my phone , I try from desktop. Can you be thinking big wake jump whole time then throw the roll. I find when I think about roll too much its throwing me off.,I sometimes load too much, instead of nice smooth poppy wake jump that is probably plenty for a backroll. Do you change anything whether your doing wake jump or a backroll?

JesseC
04-29-2010, 02:47 PM
Jessie,
Couldn't watch video from my phone , I try from desktop. Can you be thinking big wake jump whole time then throw the roll. I find when I think about roll too much its throwing me off.,I sometimes load too much, instead of nice smooth poppy wake jump that is probably plenty for a backroll. Do you change anything whether your doing wake jump or a backroll?

When I do backrolls I am not thinking "Throw it", instead I just load the line and think "Stomp" right at the top of the wake. I push down really hard and the just "let the trick happen". This trick really requires you to let go more than anything. I load the line like a normal wake jump, but at the top of the wake I just push down really hard, lock the knees and let the board float behind me. The trick just kind of happens. DO NOT force it. Good luck!!

insanepolack
04-30-2010, 12:30 AM
maybe try lengthening the rope.