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mmandley
04-14-2010, 09:25 AM
I just learned to wake board last summer. Self taught and used the Sean Murrey DVDs.

I am able to get up pretty easy, i can cut in my wake back and forth. I can go heel side out of my wake really well and cut back to the middle. I was able to toe side across my wake and cut back in a few times on my last couple runs last least season.

What im wondering for starters is, when you are in the middle of the wake your board is straight and your leaning back.

When you go toe side or heel side are you actually twisting or moving your back foot so the nose of the board points the direction you want to go? I have been trying to just lean on my heels or my toes to cut.

When i watch videos though it always looks like they are kicking there back foot in or out respectively to the direction they want to go.

I know i have a lot of learning to do and im looking forward to getting out with some other boarders this summer to learn more.

polar21
04-14-2010, 10:01 AM
The best advice I can give is to try and NOT turn the board the direction you want to go. Rather, use proper weight shift as well as proper handle position. On the toe side edge, keep the handle right at your front hip and lean against the boat. This shoot generate sufficient speed to get you outside the wake without doing too much work. On the heelside, simply squat against the heels of your feet, keeping the rope at the center of the hip. Handle position plays a huge part on getting on the right edges. Just my .02

Jeff W
04-14-2010, 10:02 AM
Seems cliche but you could REALLY benefit from getting the DVD series "The Book"..

I bought a copy cheap off some guy selling on Craigslist..

When you are carving - it's a combination of using the edge of the board, loading tension on the line and using your hips to control where you are headed.

Say you are riding 2 feet outside of the wake, going straight. To cut very far out I lean back and load the line with a lot of tension, shift my hips and shoulders out towards the direction I want to go and shift my weight out on my toes or heels lightly to set the edge and after the edge is set use the line tension to continue.

Jeff W
04-14-2010, 10:04 AM
The best advice I can give is to try and NOT turn the board the direction you want to go. Rather, use proper weight shift as well as proper handle position. On the toe side edge, keep the handle right at your front hip and lean against the boat. This shoot generate sufficient speed to get you outside the wake without doing too much work. On the heelside, simply squat against the heels of your feet, keeping the rope at the center of the hip. Handle position plays a huge part on getting on the right edges. Just my .02

great advice. you are never steering the board itself. that is the recipe for catching an edge and for not learning how to use line tension and edging.

mmandley
04-14-2010, 10:08 AM
Seems cliche but you could REALLY benefit from getting the DVD series "The Book"..

.

I got Detention 2012 i think its called. I was under the impression this is just as good as The Book.

The problem is when i watch this sort of thing it leaves those critical parts out.

Like when you start in deep water, boat pulls tension on the line, you bring the board under the water and brings your heels of your feet to you butt. Then you ride up and out of the water.

That so doesn't work for me. I try and try that and all i do is get pulled over my board or drag out and lose my handle.

I ended up turning the board as the boat pulls me up and i come up out of the water almost in regular position.

The video wants you to come up in a side slide basically. This would be great if i can learn this as it will help me get to a switch position as well.

Ridding switch is a big thing i want to learn this summer too.

Jeff W
04-14-2010, 10:20 AM
I got Detention 2012 i think its called. I was under the impression this is just as good as The Book.

The problem is when i watch this sort of thing it leaves those critical parts out.

Like when you start in deep water, boat pulls tension on the line, you bring the board under the water and brings your heels of your feet to you butt. Then you ride up and out of the water.

That so doesn't work for me. I try and try that and all i do is get pulled over my board or drag out and lose my handle.

I ended up turning the board as the boat pulls me up and i come up out of the water almost in regular position.

The video wants you to come up in a side slide basically. This would be great if i can learn this as it will help me get to a switch position as well.

Ridding switch is a big thing i want to learn this summer too.

That IS the way that you get up - in a side slide. If you are turning the board as you get up - that means that you are fighting it and trying to "muscle" your way up (common for new riders)..

I literally start in a seated position with my hells touching my butt. My knees stay inside of my arms and my hands are just inside of my board. I literally do NOTHING. I just hang out. No pushing with the legs, no pulling with the arms. That is the problem no people have is that they try to push with their legs to get out of the water and pull with their arms to help them up.

The Book is FAR better than Detention in my PERSONAL opinion. It is very in depth...

Youtube is your friend. Another great instructional series is "Wake 101".. You can find a lot of their videos on Youtube and they also have a relationship with wakeworld.com that will allow you view their videos on ww. Open up youtube and watch instructionals. The Book doesn't leave out the minor details they way that most instructionals do. I highly advise it.

Like any sport - there is NO replacement for time on the water. Learning how to ride switch is a nice option to have but I'd honestly develop your edging, line tension and body/handle positions before I worked on riding switch. I just read an interview by pro rider Kyle Rattray and as a pro he does NONE of his tricks riding switch. The Book instructional advises that every time you get out - you take an entire set riding switch. Even if you're not jumping the wake, just getting comfortable with your stance and riding and handle positions. This summer when I'm just out with the wife on casual riding nights I'm going to take at least one set riding switch every time. When I'm out with the boys and we're loaded up with ballast and people I won't do that but when it's chill nights I'm all for it.

Good luck Mike.

guinsha54
04-14-2010, 10:41 AM
I haven’t seen the new version of detention but I have seen the original versions, good instructional and keeps you entertained at the same time. But I agree the book can probably help you out some more for the basics. It goes into much more detail and you could just buy the disc one of the book getting started and use the detention for the more advanced stuff as you progress.

Polar is dead on with the carving, its all about the weight shift and handle position.

Also for getting up in what you where calling the side slide position, I would say try to point your toes up some more and it should keep you from being pulled over. But the more you ride the more you will get the feel for it and getting up in that position will more than likely just come to you.

jmvotto
04-14-2010, 11:25 AM
I second "the Book" gets all the basics and then stuff maybe my kids will learn.... LOL;)

JesseC
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
ILike when you start in deep water, boat pulls tension on the line, you bring the board under the water and brings your heels of your feet to you butt. Then you ride up and out of the water.

That so doesn't work for me. I try and try that and all i do is get pulled over my board or drag out and lose my handle.

This may also be due to the drive taking off to hard. When I pull newer riders or some of my buddies that have shoulders that have hit their prime I pull them out really slow. If you have your board sideways in a slide position and they gun the throttle you are going to faceplant or lose the handle. Pay close attention to the videos, when they pull a rider out of the water notice how slow the boat is going. With the large surface area of the board it does not take a lot to get out of the water. Driving the boat properly is almost more important than the rider being in the correct position. When my rider begins to slide and I see them start to pop out of the water I apply a little more throttle. I DO NOT give more throttle until my rider starts to break the surface of the water.

stretch55
04-14-2010, 11:40 AM
I got Detention 2012 i think its called. I was under the impression this is just as good as The Book.

The problem is when i watch this sort of thing it leaves those critical parts out.

Like when you start in deep water, boat pulls tension on the line, you bring the board under the water and brings your heels of your feet to you butt. Then you ride up and out of the water.

That so doesn't work for me. I try and try that and all i do is get pulled over my board or drag out and lose my handle.

I ended up turning the board as the boat pulls me up and i come up out of the water almost in regular position.

The video wants you to come up in a side slide basically. This would be great if i can learn this as it will help me get to a switch position as well.

Ridding switch is a big thing i want to learn this summer too.


The side to side works. you just want to stay leaned back. If you watched me last time we went out I get up side to side but all most as soon as I am up I almost always go straight into a heelside type movement to keep your self from toppeling over. Or as soon as you are up in that side to side position, pull on the rope with your arms but stay leaned back and turn your board. This will also prevent you from toppeling over.

Ian Brantford
04-14-2010, 12:19 PM
I got Detention 2012 i think its called. I was under the impression this is just as good as The Book.

I have both. Well, I've seen both. Some's got my Detention 2012 and I cannot remember who it is. Anyway, The Book has some more technical detail in certain areas.


The problem is when i watch this sort of thing it leaves those critical parts out.

I hear you. Both Detention 2012 and The Book leave out some detail on getting pop while jumping, and it's leaving me frustrated.


Like when you start in deep water, boat pulls tension on the line, you bring the board under the water and brings your heels of your feet to you butt. Then you ride up and out of the water.

That so doesn't work for me. I try and try that and all i do is get pulled over my board or drag out and lose my handle.

Unless you are amazingly double-jointed (meaning that your ankles aren't holding your board in a slight incline to bring you to the surface), the most likely cause for your issue is extending your legs. Have a friend watch or video you from the side. When teaching beginners who have trouble, I jump in the water with them and it's almost always a subconcious leg extension. They don't know that they are doing it, and will swear up and down that they aren't... but they are.

The Book has some animations that show exactly what should be happening above and below the waterline.

It is also possible that the driver is applying too much power. Tell him that the target speed is 15 MPH and you want a fairly light acceleration to that speed. After you are up, then signal him to go to your usual riding speed.


I ended up turning the board as the boat pulls me up and i come up out of the water almost in regular position.

Before learning to come up in a slide, I spent years doing this, because it was the only instruction that I could find on the Internet when I started. If it works for you, great. However, it actually requires board control in three dimensions (tipping your leading toe toward the boat). So, I do not recommend trying to teach this to anyone else.


The video wants you to come up in a side slide basically. This would be great if i can learn this as it will help me get to a switch position as well.

Side slides are an excellent way to prepare you to ride switch and to land jumps. If you have any removeable fins, remove them and do some prolonged sliding exercises. This will teach you to use edging for control, rather than the crutch of steering with fins. You should eventually be able to turn around and do blindside slides in reverse (toeside).

Sliding can be scarey (because of face-planting) to do at regular riding speeds. However, sliding exercises can be done at very low speed. I am 165 lbs and can slide at 11 MPH.

scoot_gt
04-14-2010, 01:18 PM
This may also be due to the drive taking off to hard. When I pull newer riders or some of my buddies that have shoulders that have hit their prime I pull them out really slow. If you have your board sideways in a slide position and they gun the throttle you are going to faceplant or lose the handle. Pay close attention to the videos, when they pull a rider out of the water notice how slow the boat is going. With the large surface area of the board it does not take a lot to get out of the water. Driving the boat properly is almost more important than the rider being in the correct position. When my rider begins to slide and I see them start to pop out of the water I apply a little more throttle. I DO NOT give more throttle until my rider starts to break the surface of the water.

This is great advise. I'll add this - there is NO reason to stand up immediately. Have your driver pull you up slowly and only top out the speed at 13-15mph. You can stay squatted, sideways for ages behind the boat.

Also, try this on your wakesurf board, or try it on your wakeboard with a really short rope.

Once you can get up sideways, try this drill - keep the board sideways, speed 15mph or so and by shifting your weight from one foot to other, slide the board sideways from wake to wake, staying inside the wake. This is a good drill for teaching board control, weight shifting and leveraging rope tension.

The next progression of this same drill is surface 180s.

brain_rinse
04-14-2010, 03:36 PM
We tell beginners to think about it like they are playing bball and got knocked on their butt. A teammate comes over, grabs you by the hand and pulls you back up standing. You do nothing but hold on, the teammate (boat) does all the work.

Lots of good advice already posted. I would just add that when cutting across the wake the board should be facing the direction you are traveling (sideways.) The trick though, as already mentioned, is to initiate your turns by edging the board, not by pointing it.

mmandley
04-14-2010, 06:34 PM
Thanks everyone. I will be trying this all out pretty soon. I will look into the Book. I did pretty good i think last year but i want to do a lot better and more things this year.

We even got some helmets for ridding so the crashes don't hurt so much lol.

Ian Brantford
04-14-2010, 09:27 PM
We even got some helmets for ridding so the crashes don't hurt so much lol.

I also recommend watersport goggles (specifically vented for crashes -- not diving goggles) and a Neck Roll (like what hydrofoilers use).

http://www.bartswatersports.com/catalog.asp?P=4427

http://cinchmax.com/_wsn/page3.html

Best wishes!

mmandley
04-14-2010, 11:08 PM
Now those water goggles i like the idea of them. I bought claudia 2 pairs of goggles last year but she hated them. They would fog up and or get uncomfortable. She wears contacts when we are on the boat and i realy want something to help protect her eyes and contacts.

Those things arnt cheap and last year she lost a few ridding.

DO you have them? Or does anyone? How are they compared to normal goggles for swimming and such.

Ian Brantford
04-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Now those water goggles i like the idea of them. I bought claudia 2 pairs of goggles last year but she hated them. They would fog up and or get uncomfortable. She wears contacts when we are on the boat and i realy want something to help protect her eyes and contacts.

Those things arnt cheap and last year she lost a few ridding.

DO you have them? Or does anyone? How are they compared to normal goggles for swimming and such.

I have one pair. The strap goes under my helmet, so the goggles cannot get lost. However, they have occasionally flipped up during an oblique crash, so contact lense protection is not 100%. I would like it if they had a bit more padding for the cheek bone, which would enable me to slightly tighten the strap and maintain comfort. However, they are very effective at preventing "eye openers" during a face plant, which is their very welcome purpose. You'll be justifiably braver if you are wearing them.

The "Bug Eye" model to which I linked are vented at the sides. This way, they will not transmit the water pressure to your eyes during a crash. They will fog up while you are still in the water, but the vents will allow air movement to immediately clear the fog when you start riding. If I get bothered by any fogging while waiting for the boat to start moving, I just dunk my face in the lake, which is conveniently located at chin level. Fogging simply isn't a significant problem.

Between goggles and the Neck Roll, I'd say that the Neck Roll is the more important item to have.

viking
04-16-2010, 01:13 AM
On the subject of safety - I'm going to buy a helmet for myself and the rest of the family this summer. Didn't use one last year but want to set an example for my kiddo's (plus daddy's not as young as he used to be :)
What do you recommend??

Jeff W
04-16-2010, 09:19 AM
On the subject of safety - I'm going to buy a helmet for myself and the rest of the family this summer. Didn't use one last year but want to set an example for my kiddo's (plus daddy's not as young as he used to be :)
What do you recommend??

Protec and Shred Ready

mmandley
04-16-2010, 09:51 AM
I tried Protec they run a small helmet and i wear an XL in those.

We tried getting those before the close out sale for 40 each and missed the deal.

We have Liquid Force ones we got a deal on for 40. They run as a larger helmet and i wear a S and Claudia wears XS. They also came with the snap in ear flaps if you so desire.

We went with Black and Red lettering.

viking
04-16-2010, 04:13 PM
thanx guys. I'll look for those then!
Sounds like anywhere around $40 is a pretty good buy for helmets!

jeffrogge
04-20-2010, 12:30 AM
mmandley. Hey I like the idea of the helmet, I have hit myself in the head with the board. As far as getting up I get up different than a lot of people here and it works for all of us, we start with the board floating about 2 inches of it out of the water and your legs are 90-90 like you are sitting in a chair laying on the floor then the rope goes between your feet and the handle is by your ankles. you have to keep the board up and the driver guns the engine and you just pop up. With the wakeboard you should come up right away not like the ski where you get drug through the water. I like the analogy of getting help up from the floor. THe more engine the better so you don't have to try to hang on to the rope for a long time while fighting the water. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7L_gI04Qck here is a good link. When steering the board you had the right idea with steering with your back foot but you control you back foot by leaning. it will come just practice. as far as learning switch it is really easy to learn switching the board as you cross the wake on the knuckle, less board is in the water to catch an edge on. the biggest thing I think when doing flatwater spins and switching is turn the board quickly, if you try to turn it slowly you are more likely to catch an edge. Hope this helps man. You can pimp my stereo and I can help you ride.