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cab13367
04-17-2010, 01:08 AM
Hey everyone,

Today, I tested the three props below on my 2006 Mobius LSV with the 325 HP engine.

OJ #454 – 13.7 x 17.5, 0.110 cup (stock prop)
Acme #537 – 13.5 x 16, 0.105 cup
OJ #466 – 14.25 x 14, 0.090 cup (wakeboard prop)

The reason for the prop testing is that I am looking for a prop with a little more holeshot because last year, I found the limits of my stock prop. I had 1400 lbs of ballast full and 7 adults on the boat plus 1 behind the boat that I was trying to get up on a wakeboard. It took about two minutes for the boat to plane out.

The first prop is the stock prop. The second prop was recommended by my dealer (the OJ version) as well as by nettle props (the Acme version) as a good upgrade from stock for holeshot if I did not want the all out wakeboard prop which I'm told is more appropriate for heavily sacked out/bigger boats. The third prop is the wakeboard prop upgrade from Moomba/OJ (although they have a newer one out now). Tazz gave me a great deal on his 537 over the winter so I jumped on it and mandley was nice enough to let me borrow his wakeboard prop for the purpose of this test.

Of course, the wakeboard prop would take care of any holeshot concerns but since I do most of my boating with light loads, I’m not sure I want to pay the gas usage penalty as well as give up several mph on the top end all the time.

Okay, so on to the results:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/PropTestForm.jpg

cab13367
04-17-2010, 01:15 AM
Only me and my 13 year old son were in the boat. I was going to also fill my 750 lb surf ballast and put in on the floor in the middle of the lounge but I realized that they have fittings on them to connect to the plumbed ballast system so there was no way I could fill it where I wanted to fill it.

Based on the test results, I am definitely keeping the Acme 537. It's a dramatic improvement in holeshot over the stock prop yet gives up no mph on the top end. The wakeboard prop is an improvement over the 537 but not nearly as much as the 537 is over the stock plus it gives up 4 mph on top. If I ran more ballast or with a boat load of adults more often, then I would consider it. But for my needs, I think the 537 fits the bill nicely.

Hope others find this useful.

Al

cab13367
04-17-2010, 01:32 AM
Pics of ballast used in the test:

400 lbs in the ski locker:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6303.jpg

455 lb X2 sacs. Good amount of weight, still leaves room for a cooler, etc in front of the bag.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6320.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6324.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6323.jpg

cab13367
04-17-2010, 01:32 AM
Tools of the trade:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6326.jpg

kaneboats
04-17-2010, 01:51 AM
Very nice job on this, Al. We are all going to learn a lot and hopefully get the info we each need to make the right choices for our prop needs. Can't wait for next weekend and the FL prop testing.

cab13367
04-17-2010, 02:57 AM
Very nice job on this, Al. We are all going to learn a lot and hopefully get the info we each need to make the right choices for our prop needs. Can't wait for next weekend and the FL prop testing.

Don't forget to bring a big hammer/small sledge. Once I got home, I had a heck of a time getting the wakeboard prop off. I finally took a small sledge hammer and tapped the prop puller with it a couple of times (from under the boat, hit the back side of the prop puller) and it came right off. If this happened at the lake, I would never have gotten the prop off.

sandm
04-17-2010, 09:32 AM
thanks for doing this....

mmandley
04-17-2010, 09:33 AM
Don't forget to bring a big hammer/small sledge. Once I got home, I had a heck of a time getting the wakeboard prop off. I finally took a small sledge hammer and tapped the prop puller with it a couple of times (from under the boat, hit the back side of the prop puller) and it came right off. If this happened at the lake, I would never have gotten the prop off.

IM glad my prop came off my boat so easily.

Now where is my prop sukka LOL. Claudia ask me what good is Fierah with no prop. I said about as good as Big Blue with no Tires. LOL

2007 Outback V
04-17-2010, 10:49 AM
Very impressive! Well done.

cab13367
04-17-2010, 11:10 AM
Nice report Al!!

We definetly will be using this as a guide for the props we are testing.

We will add to it by doing 0-36 mph runs.

seems your average results from 4 runs are pretty similar to my tests with just 2 runs (at the different speeds) so I'll stick to 2 runs. Of course, this decision will be left up to the testers - since it's their boat :)

When completed, and if you wish, we can combine all reports into one thread.

I think one more thing we should add to the reports is - amount of clearance between prop and trailer.

More suggestions on prop changing...

Get rid of that wrench that comes with the puller kit. That thing is almost impossible to work with. I use a 1 1/8" socket - 1/2" drive

instead of a hammer or a sledge and whacking the prop puller, I use a 2 foot bar that I slip over the handle of the socket wrench - gives me the extra leverage needed to break the prop loose. The bar is actually a horseshoe pole

I use a c-clamp to hold down a short length of 2x4 to trap the prop.

Use a little waterproof grease inside the prop.

Oh, last but not least - if you are done with your prop testing, get yourself a new nyloc and put it on. Those things aren't designed to be used over and over.

Daze and SJTLMT, I have new nyloc's for you guys.

EDIT...Al, hope you don't mind - I copied your test form and added it to the post "final round of prop test threads". This is a sticky and will stay at the top for a while.

When we get all the data, including yours, we can put it all into the same format - being yours or sandm's.

Thanks Ed. No problem on copying my form and adding it to your thread. I must admit that I was a bit selfish with this test in that I only tested the parameters that were important to me. This was necessary due to the time constraint and the fact that it was just me and my son. We were our on the lake all day as it was. But hopefully, there is enough data here that others can draw conclusions from it for their particular situation.

As far as the prop R&R, this was my first time removing a prop so it was definitely a learning process. I did not have any issues at the lake, only when I got home and went to remove Mike's prop. I had a 2' cheater bar that I was gently applying to the prop puller and I was starting to do some damage to the end of the shaft and the prop puller (gouging of the tip). I was afraid I was doing something wrong since I didn't have any issues at all at the lake and since I was working with Mike's prop, I didn't want to force the issue. What saved the day is that I ran to this forum and did a quick search on prop removal and found a post where someone suggested tapping the prop puller from behind. Just a couple of gentle taps with my small sledge and it popped right off. Don't worry Mike, I hit the prop puller with the hammer, not your prop! Your prop made it off unharmed :) The tip on the post about leaving the lock nut on to catch the prop was also a nice one.

Yes, I did put some lithium grease on the 537 before I put it back on.

Yes, the wrench in the pic came with my prop puller kit and is intended to be kept in the boat with the puller and spare prop. I was in a hurry and could not find the right size socket (27mm, BTW) before leaving for the lake. I also have some long socket extensions that I used at home so that I was working the ratchet aft of the trailer and rudder. Definitely comes in handy when chaning out multiple props. And the C clamp on the wood block is a good idea (a trigger release quick clamp is an even better one) but mine stayed in place just fine.

I was specifically looking out for prop/trailer clearance issues based on your previous posts Ed but I had plenty of clearance with each prop.

The pic below shows the clearance with the biggest diameter prop (the 14.25 x 14). It also shows how the block of wood is used for those wondering.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6327.jpg

These are the three props tested. L to R: OJ 13.7x17.5, Acme 13.5x16, OJ 14.25x14. Note difference in blade design of the Acme vs the OJ. The blades on the ACME are slightly thinner as well.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_6333.jpg

cab13367
04-17-2010, 11:19 AM
IM glad my prop came off my boat so easily.

Now where is my prop sukka LOL. Claudia ask me what good is Fierah with no prop. I said about as good as Big Blue with no Tires. LOL

Yeah, I don't know what the deal was getting it off my boat. I didn't have any problems with the others and you saw how easily it popped off your boat. Just glad I got it off and your prop is none the worse for it. I will put some lithium grease on it before I put it back on your boat. I am probably going to take my boat down to Exile today to have Brian tune my system so I will put your prop back on. So tell Claudia not to worry :)

DOCDRS
04-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Great work Al, i like the stats on the acme 13.5 looks like a winner, i have the oj 466 right now and looking for something to give 1 or 2 more mph.

thanks for your time.....will be interesting how Ed's test compares.....

oh , what is your max wot rpm and what do you figure you could have done mph with the 13.5 prop?

cab13367
04-17-2010, 11:48 AM
Great work Al, i like the stats on the acme 13.5 looks like a winner, i have the oj 466 right now and looking for something to give 1 or 2 more mph.

thanks for your time.....will be interesting how Ed's test compares.....

oh , what is your max wot rpm and what do you figure you could have done mph with the 13.5 prop?

Thanks doc. Yeah, the acme is the ticket - lots more holeshot than stock with no loss in top end. I don't know how that can be. I guess it must be in the design of the blades? They are a bit thinner than the OJ's blades and are shaped a little differently.

I called my dealer before going out and he said max rpm for my engine is 5000 and that the rev limiter will kick in at 5200. So I stopped at 5000. Not sure how far the acme would have gone but it got to 5000 and 40 mph real quick. I am pretty sure it would have done 5200 no problem.

BTW, you will notice that I had the wakeplate 3/4 of the way down on the top speed run. This was the least amount of plate I could use and keep the bow from porpoising with the stock prop. So to be fair, I used the same wakeplate setting on the other two prop's top speed runs.

DOCDRS
04-17-2010, 12:12 PM
should be interesting how the 537 and the 1161 compare

cab13367
04-17-2010, 01:06 PM
One thing I want to strongly emphazise for the readers out there is this prop clearance issue.

Al, no offense, but your photo does not show the proper clearance between the prop and trailer and we surely don't want anyone doing it the wrong way.

One needs to measure the thickness of the bar running horizontally (port to starboard) under the rudder. The one that is welded on top of the vertical bar (forward to aft) that runs under the prop (as shown in photo).

One needs to find something the same thickness of that horizontal bar (3/8" thick piece of wood molding, in my case) and then place that inbetween the prop and that vertically running bar. Rotate the the prop until one of the blades is at it's closest point to the "shim". This usually ends up having one of the prop blade back edges being a few degrees off of a vertical position.

This will show the actual clearance between prop and trailer.

Unfortunately, Our test speeds don't match (yours is 1 mph faster), but since I've already started my testing and want to keep all tests identical, that's just the way it is going to be for the OBV. I don't think 1 mph is a big deal

Next week we can run the tests on the LSV and the XLV at the same speed as you did.

Ed,

No offense taken. The pic is more to show how the wood block is used and in general, that there is plenty of prop clearance. I did not measure it. I figured that the wakeboard prop is in use on lots of LSV's so there must not be a clearance issue. I see your other post on this and now understand and agree with what you are saying as the correct way to measure minimum prop clearance.

One thing to remember though is that the rear of your boat will always be floating several inches above the rear of the trailer as you drive it on so you will always have more clearance than the 1/4" you measured.

Al

DOCDRS
04-17-2010, 05:02 PM
Al, isnt your boat bigger,heavier than Ed's?

mmandley
04-17-2010, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I don't know what the deal was getting it off my boat. I didn't have any problems with the others and you saw how easily it popped off your boat. Just glad I got it off and your prop is none the worse for it. I will put some lithium grease on it before I put it back on your boat. I am probably going to take my boat down to Exile today to have Brian tune my system so I will put your prop back on. So tell Claudia not to worry :)

Np Al and i wasn't even worried when i read you had to use a hammer to remove my prop from your boat. I trust you man, if not i wouldn't have let you take my only prop lol.

Glad you got the testing done and got what you wanted out of it. I like the idea of the 537 going faster on top end but then again even now i rarely go over 25 in my boat when cruising back to the dock at the end of the day.

mmandley
04-17-2010, 05:11 PM
Al, isnt your boat bigger,heavier than Ed's?

Bigger yes and but only slightly heavier but we have different hulls.

stretch55
04-17-2010, 08:25 PM
Well I am glad that the acme did the best because that is the prop that I have.

mmandley
04-18-2010, 07:16 AM
Well I am glad that the acme did the best because that is the prop that I have.

This explained a lot because when i was on your boat it felt like it pulled really well out of the hole, and god knows Zack likes to punch that throttle LOL. I was amazed your boat went to 40 so easily being so big, your prop explains it now lol.

I can say if Zach hit my throttle like he does when he pulls you up i bet the handle would get jerked out of your hand lol.

cab13367
04-18-2010, 01:24 PM
Agreed. The "best prop" is totally dependent on the particular application.

kaneboats
04-18-2010, 08:30 PM
Let's just be real efficient and do it all!

Razzman
04-26-2010, 11:37 PM
Imo the "Best prop" is the one that allows you to do it all without sacrafice and in my case it just happens to be the one on my boat! :p

DOCDRS
04-27-2010, 12:00 AM
I know i need 2 props, the question is which 2. i have the wakeboarding one now which i hope will do fine for surfing with all the weight in the boat. You guys all talk about pull and pop out of the hole.....there is nothing worse than laying on your back and rear waiting to get up to speed when your footing. I kind of laugh as boarding and surfing your up in 2 seconds. But thats my opinion.
What will be of best value is how these props perform on the same boat, so it will give us some idea how we can expect one of these new props to perform on our boat compared to the prop we have (hopefully already one that is being tested). I commend you guys for doing this as I truly believe it will provide some immensely valuable information on which we will be able to use to guide us in a more proper prop selection. I have yet to find or see anything like this on my searches on the web.

THanks for your time and effort

A Weekend Warrior

mmandley
02-21-2011, 08:18 PM
Bumping this tread back to life as theres a lot of chatter on Props again

rdlangston13
02-21-2011, 08:46 PM
im guessing the LSV has a left hand rotation?

brain_rinse
02-21-2011, 08:49 PM
im guessing the LSV has a left hand rotation?
Yep...........

rdlangston13
02-21-2011, 09:24 PM
so did anyone who went with an ACME 1433 notice a difference in top end or just out of the hole?

rdlangston13
02-22-2011, 10:11 AM
thanks. looks like ill be trying to pick one of these up this summer.

all the websites where i was looking at props had the remover c clamp tool for like 60-80 bucks, that seems high to me. any one know of a place that has it cheaper

kaneboats
02-22-2011, 11:01 AM
I added it to my last order from skidim and used a 10% off coupon but it was still around $60, I think.

jjolson
02-22-2011, 12:20 PM
I bought the 1433 last year. It rips out of the hole. Only lost a few miles per hour off the top but I do not do any WOT really. If you have any weight in the boat at all, it is totally needed. Dollar for dollar the best upgrade out there in my opinion.

jjolson
02-22-2011, 01:15 PM
I should clarify. Top speed is not a big deal to me. As long as it can comfortably pull a rider with the boat loaded. I do open the throttle up at times. It just is not my main goal or played into whether I bought a specific prop or not. I am sure you can burn condensation out at 25-30 miles per hour just as easy as 40-43. Anyways, I don't have any scientific data backing this up just my own opinion. :D


"I do not do any WOT really"

Many marine engine experts have suggested you should do this (safely of course) for a little while after surfing - to burn out any condensation that can accumulate in your engine from the slow speeds.

mmandley
02-22-2011, 01:25 PM
"I do not do any WOT really"

Many marine engine experts have suggested you should do this (safely of course) for a little while after surfing - to burn out any condensation that can accumulate in your engine from the slow speeds.

I completly disagree with this. The engine is running at 2K RPM the entire time your surfing. Whats the difference in surfing and in running it at 2K all day?

You dont go run your car at WOT because you drove all day in town at 700-2K RPM.

I think this falls in the same BS that says surfing causes the engine to run low on oil because of the way the boat is tilted. All BS if you ask me.

You need to WOT your boat once in a while same reason you do your car, to blow any small carbon buildups in the EGR system and intake system.

moombadaze
02-22-2011, 01:54 PM
The best 2 reason to WOT the boat is.......








1) to go fast ;)
2) sounds awesome :D

moombadaze
02-22-2011, 02:13 PM
Most times we do a fast lap around the lake too after surfing. Helps dry off too

sandm
02-22-2011, 05:19 PM
I completly disagree with this. The engine is running at 2K RPM the entire time your surfing. Whats the difference in surfing and in running it at 2K all day?

You dont go run your car at WOT because you drove all day in town at 700-2K RPM.

I think this falls in the same BS that says surfing causes the engine to run low on oil because of the way the boat is tilted. All BS if you ask me.

You need to WOT your boat once in a while same reason you do your car, to blow any small carbon buildups in the EGR system and intake system.

couple of thoughts on this:
there are several stories here of autocross guys that are running a particular hard track that sieze engines up running at very high rpm's, very high egt temps and when hitting long corners, the oil pickup loses the oil from it sloshing to the side. only takes a second when running hot/heavy to sieze an engine, so there is some precautions to be taken. If I fill my vdrive to the line when stationary, that red light on the lanyard kill switch never goes out when surfing. add a little above and it's fine. there's a range of oil levels on a dipstick. bet if you run toward the bottom, there's times when towing, especially when whipping tubers around that your engine pickup is empty.

there's nothing wrong with idling cars around all day in town and nothing in the owners manual will say differently, however some do list shorter intervals for maintenance for town driving vs highway driving for the reasons listed above, and it is a good idea to run the engine every so often, but every trip? nah. if you run your boat 3-4hrs at 2krpm's, that should work out to around 60mph on an average truck(estimate). that's 180-250 miles in a given day on the lake. bet most don't "blow" their trucks out at that interval and cars go 150k or better with just basic maintenance.

mmandley
02-22-2011, 05:41 PM
Well, we all have our opinions.

Some people think blowing out carbon from the engine is total BS.

Personally, I'll follow the advice from the guy who works for Indmar, thank you very much.



I have to laugh, the first time I wrote about this, you thought it was a "good tip" and you were gonna start doing it too.

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?p=101806&highlight=engine+wakesurfing#post101806

Your right i did agree when i didn't know any better and i thought you were right. Since then i have spoke to several people at Idmar about my warranty and the effects of the surfing and wake boarding on the engine. Every time i ask someone there the response i get is pretty simple, watch the water temp, watch the oil pressure. Eighter go to the top of the gauge shut it down and fix the issue. Other wise there's is absolutely no none or written proof that any of the water sports these boats are subjected to hurts the engine.

Only thing i was told is Do Not run the engine hard and then trailer it. This is one of the worst things you can do to your engine as it builds up considerable heat and then you shut it off and trailer it giving the engine no time to properly cool down. This my friend Ed can cause condensation in the engine.

moombadaze
02-22-2011, 08:27 PM
Only thing i was told is Do Not run the engine hard and then trailer it. This is one of the worst things you can do to your engine as it builds up considerable heat and then you shut it off and trailer it giving the engine no time to properly cool down. .



I'll always run mine at or near WOT after I'm done surfing for the day, and I'll always recommend to others they do the same.


can we not do both? take a hot lap, then a little cruise at idle for cool down and then trailer it.

mmandley
02-22-2011, 09:45 PM
can we not do both? take a hot lap, then a little cruise at idle for cool down and then trailer it.

Absolutely what you can do Stacy. My only concern was Ed saying his wife is out doing hot laps while he grabs the trailer. To each his own on how they treat there boats. By no means an i trying to tell anyone how to care for it. I'm just expressing my concern for some ideas posted here.

Forums are the best and worst thing a person can read. Best because a lot of usefull information.

Worst because so much information gives you over load and some people opinions get blown out and taken the wrong way. I take it all with a grain of salt and hope everyone else does as well.

:cool:

brain_rinse
02-23-2011, 01:39 PM
Hopefully this thread will continue to be useful to people as they research what prop is right for their boat. There are some good real world experiences here that should help you make the right decision. Before you spend your hard earned money on a prop that you think is what you want, be sure to talk to one of the experts (manufacturer or trusted reseller) to get their take on the right prop for your needs.

This thread has gone off course enough that I'm going to close it.