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04OUTBACK
04-18-2008, 08:03 PM
Jesse,
this is a fun process! HA. I replaced mine last summer when I replaced my bent shaft and prop. You'll have to pull the shaft out completely to replace them... to pullthe shaft, you'll have to pull the rudder off.

Getting the little buggers out is a trick. There is a tool that does it... OR you can use a hack saw. Let me know when you get ready, i'll explain.

Spyder,
Shaft alignment procedures: LONG but good info. Someone named Doug from on here sent them to me last summer

Shaft Alignment Procedure

Completion of this work should take less than 1 hour .

Tools Required:
Phillips Screw driver
2-9/16" wrenches
Torque Wrench
Feeler Gauge Set
CROWBAR

Object:

Align the Engine coupler to the Shaft coupler with less than .002 gap.

Removing the Interior:
1. Remove the motor box and rear seat.
2. Remove the rear center floor.
3. You should now be able to see the Shaft Coupler/Transmission Coupler Interface.

Removing the Bolts:
1. Locate the Shaft Coupler/Transmission Coupler Interface.
2. You will see four bolts holding the two couplers together.
3. Using two 9/16 wrenches loosen the nuts from the bolts.
Once the bolts are removed check the following:
1. The grade marking on the head of the bolt should read "S30400".
2. They should be a 3/8-24 X 1 -" Stainless Steel bolts.
3. Look for wear or damage.
4. If the bolts are incorrect or are damaged replace them!

4. Once the bolts are out the coupler should naturally want to match up with out any pressure. At this point do a shaft alignment.

Aligning the Engine:

1. Holding the two couplers together, take a feeler gauge set and see if a .005 gauge feeler will slide between the couplers at any point around the circumference. Be sure to run the feeler all the way around. If it will slip between the couplers go to step 2. If it does not slip between the couplers go to step 4.

2. Next, spin the shaft coupler 180 degrees. Holding the two couplers together, again, take a feeler gauge set and see if a .005 gauge feeler will slide between the couplers at any point around the circumference. Be sure to run the feeler all the way around. It should slip between the couplers at the same point as it did in step I, if it does slip in the same spot, go to step three. If it slips between the coupler at a point 180 degrees for where it did last time examine shaft for damage (it may be bent) and examine the coupler for damage. If no damage is found, repeat steps 1 and two.

3. Too close a gap between the couplers the engine will need to be moved slightly.

- If the gap is at the 12 O'clock position you will need to raise the front of the engine or lower the back of the engine. To do this (using the rear feet): loosen the jam nuts on the rear feet. Then put a wrench on the tops and turn it counterclockwise. Make sure to count the turns and turn both the right and left feet equal amounts. This will lower the back of the engine and close the gap. If you went too far you will open a gap at the bottom. When using the rear feet to make adjustments, be sure not to lower or raise the shaft & coupler out of its "natural" position. For major angular movements (were you need to move the engine 2-3 thousand) use the front feet for the majority of the movement, then fine tune with the rear mounts.


- If the Gap is at the 3 O'clock position you will need to slide the front or rear of the engine over. To do this, loosen the nuts on the trunnion pins. Then tap the trunnion pin lightly to back it off and loosen them from the trunnions. This will allow the engine to be moved side to side. Using a pry bar, push the front of the engine more starboard to close the gap. If you push it to you will create a gap at the 9 O'clock position.

- If the gap is between the 1 and 2 0' clock position, you may be able to get the gap closed by lowering the left rear foot only.

- Keep repeating these steps till a 0.005 feeler gauge will not fit between the couplers at any point. Be sure that the shaft remains in the its natural position so that you do not cause premature shaft packing wear or strut bushing wear. Once you have gotten the engine aligned to within 0.005 repeat the above steps until the engine alignment is within 0.002.

1. Make sure to lock down all the jam nuts on the engine feet and the trunnion pins on the trunnions.

2. Recheck the engine alignment after the jam nuts and trunnion pins have been tightened. If it is still within tolerance you may proceed.

Reinstalling the Bolts:

- Install the bolts (3/8-24 x 1 " S30400) through the couplers and install the 3/8-24 Nylock Stainless Nut.
- Torque the bolts to 25-30 Ft Lbs.
- Double check that the jam nuts on the engine and the cotter pins on the trunnions are tight.
- Double check that the shaft coupler bolts are torqued to 25-30 Ft Lbs.

Replacing and Adjusting the Shaft Packing.
- Replace the shaft packing. Be sure to install two or three pieces.
- Loosen the jam nut on the shaft-packing gland.
- Back the gland nut off the packing gland assembly.
- Dig out all the old packing material.
- For a DD one inch shaft, cut two to three pieces of 1/4"dia. packing material strips so they are 4 1/8". Place one of the packing strips into the packing nut. The end should butt together. Place another piece in the packing nut, this time orienting the seam 180 degrees from the seam of the first piece.
- For a Vdrive 1 1/8" shaft use 3/8" diameter packing.
- Slide the packing nut up the shaft.
- Slide the shaft through the Packing gland assembly and into the strut.
- Screw the packing nut onto the packing gland assembly. Tighten it up as much as possible by hand. Then using a wrench, turn the nut a 1/2 a turn forward and a 1/4 turn back. Then turn the nut a 1/2 a turn forward and a 1/4 turn back. Then turn the nut a a turn forward and a 1/4 turn back. This will pack the packing fairly tight.
- Back the packing nut off the assembly again. Then thread it back on. Tighten it only as tight as you can get it using your hands. This should be almost the perfect tightness for the packing gland so that it does not leak, yet not too tight so that the packing burns up.
- Tighten the Lock Nut up to the Packing Gland Nut.

If you want to add the third piece of packing, do so when you back the nut off after you packed the packing. Then tighten the nut only as tight as you can get it using your hands. This should be almost the perfect tightness for the packing gland so that it does not leak, yet not too tight so

DOCDRS
05-14-2011, 11:03 PM
THIS SHOULD BE PART OF YOUR WINTERIZATION/SUMMERIZATION

IT IS A SIMPLE TASK TO CHECK THIS WITH ONLY 2 WRENCHES AND A FEELER GAUGE NEEDED

very easy and quick on a vdrive a little more time on a ddrive

JUST DO IT

squeeg333
05-23-2011, 02:26 PM
I am slightly confused about this procedure... well, about one part of the procedure. Do the bolts HAVE to be removed, or can they just be loosened?? And I assume the shaft that is spun during the checks is the propr shaft, and not the v-drive shaft??

DOCDRS
05-23-2011, 03:58 PM
They can just be loosened.

brain_rinse
05-23-2011, 10:46 PM
THIS SHOULD BE PART OF YOUR WINTERIZATION/SUMMERIZATION

IT IS A SIMPLE TASK TO CHECK THIS WITH ONLY 2 WRENCHES AND A FEELER GAUGE NEEDED

very easy and quick on a vdrive a little more time on a ddrive

JUST DO IT
I did this tonight... not as easy as I had hoped with my ballast pumps in the way, but I got it done. I didn't take the bolts out all the way, just loosened way up so the shaft could move around easily. Also a business card works as a .005 feeler gauge in a pinch.

pmoomba
05-24-2011, 10:31 AM
Anyone have some pictures of this process? I'm newer to things on the maintenance end but have been pretty good so far between winterization/summerize, fluid replacements, replacing things like the spark plugs/fuel filter, replacing a propeller, etc.

I haven't gotten around to anything with the prop shaft alignment though and am pretty intimidated. Just the thought of having to remove the floor is intimidating :)

This is all great info but I think seeing it would help a ton.

brain_rinse
05-24-2011, 10:42 AM
The floor is just 4 Phillips screws so no big deal. But for me the floor wasn't in the way at all. Maybe on a direct drive...

cab13367
05-27-2011, 10:11 PM
Brad/Doc,

I have never checked this since I bought the boat new 4 years ago so decided to do it today. I loosened the 4 bolts (BTW, a 14mm wrench fits on the bolt head and nut more snugly than a 9/16th) and checked the gap with an .005" feeler gauge. I can pretty easily get it in from about the 12 o'clock to the 6 o'clock position, looking from front to back but it won't go in from the 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock position. I rotated BOTH couplers 180 degrees and checked again with the same result. So this means I need to slide the back of the engine towards the port side a bit or the front of the engine to the starboard side.

My question has to do with the trunion pins. I don't know how these pins work so once I loosen the nuts on them, do I tap them toward the back of the boat or towards the front? Put another way, do I tap the threaded side or the non threaded side?

Also, if I decide to move the back of the engine towards the port side (which is what I think I'll do), I obviously have to loosen the trunnion pins on both rear engine mounts. But do I need to loosen the front ones also? I'm thinking I shouldn't but I'm not sure.

Also, what will happen if I continue to leave it as it is? It's been like this for 4 seasons now and to my knowledge, it's not causing any issues.

Thanks for this procedure - I would never have undertaken this without it.

Al

cab13367
05-28-2011, 12:04 AM
I checked the gap a little more closely and it looks like I have about .014" at 3 o'clock and zero at 9 o'clock - the couplers appear to be touching at the 9 o'clock position. At the 3 o'clock position, I can insert the feeler gauge about 3/4" snd then it hits something solid. Also, when I run my fingers around perimeter of both couplers, they are perfectly aligned which I think is because they somehow marry up to each other, which explains why I can only insert the feeler gauge about 3/4" - is this correct?

So I would appreciate if those that have done this could give me some advise as to how to get the gap consistent between the two couplers. Do I loosen all the trunnion pins? Or just the rear if I am going to move the rear of the engine?

Thanks,

Al

Grant M
05-28-2011, 01:49 AM
Al had you noticed any vibration before checking the alignment?
Just wondering how much it needs to be out before a fella would notice...

deafgoose
05-28-2011, 02:26 AM
Exactly. How much would it have to be off before we would notice?

I hit rocks and totally destroyed my stock prop and there were chunks missing from the blades. I also hit a log last year and one blade was significantly bent.

With a brand new prop, my boat feels so smooth and my shaft was never inspected for alignment.

cab13367
05-28-2011, 02:27 AM
Al had you noticed any vibration before checking the alignment?
Just wondering how much it needs to be out before a fella would notice...

No vibrations, but I saw an older post by Brian Raymond of SC and he said that one consequence of an out of alignment shaft is a leaky shaft packing gland because the shaft is spinning in an oval pattern and my boat always has had a leaky packing gland. I changed the packing rope at the start of last summer and it didn't take long for it to start leaking again and would not stop no matter how much I tightened the nut.

deafgoose
05-28-2011, 02:34 AM
Interesting.

My shaft seal must be good because I keep my boat in the water at the marina all season and my automatic bilge never turns on.

DOCDRS
05-28-2011, 09:49 AM
I checked the gap a little more closely and it looks like I have about .014" at 3 o'clock and zero at 9 o'clock - the couplers appear to be touching at the 9 o'clock position. At the 3 o'clock position, I can insert the feeler gauge about 3/4" snd then it hits something solid. Also, when I run my fingers around perimeter of both couplers, they are perfectly aligned which I think is because they somehow marry up to each other, which explains why I can only insert the feeler gauge about 3/4" - is this correct?

So I would appreciate if those that have done this could give me some advise as to how to get the gap consistent between the two couplers. Do I loosen all the trunnion pins? Or just the rear if I am going to move the rear of the engine?

Thanks,

Al

Good to hear guys doing this. Al you just have to loosen the rear trunnions, both of them. .014 is huge imo. loosem the 2 pins on either side then using a crowbar on the metal motor mount apply pressure in the direction you want to move the motor, this is the trickiest part getting the crowbar in the right place,( in your vdrive to close a ports side gap you are correct in moving the back of the motor to the starboard side)as you apply pressure hit/tap the trunnion/mount with a hammer/5lb hammer sledge, to help vibrate the motor to mount loose(very helpful). You should get a .002 gauge as this is what you will want to get the tolerance to. It definitely helps to have 2 people doing this one checking and one moving the back of the engine....it just goes quicker. Let me know how ya make out.

DOCDRS
05-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Brad/Doc,


My question has to do with the trunion pins. I don't know how these pins work so once I loosen the nuts on them, do I tap them toward the back of the boat or towards the front? Put another way, do I tap the threaded side or the non threaded side?

Tap the threaded side(bolt on the end so you don't frig the threads to the back of the boat,)

.
Also, if I decide to move the back of the engine towards the port side (which is what I think I'll do), I obviously have to loosen the trunnion pins on both rear engine mounts. But do I need to loosen the front ones also? I'm thinking I shouldn't but I'm not sure.

No don't have to loosen front

.
Also, what will happen if I continue to leave it as it is? It's been like this for 4 seasons now and to my knowledge, it's not causing any issues.

I guess my answer is why would you not want to have a properly aligned engine to propshaft when you can and are supposed to? Less vibrations on your vdrive, tranny , motor, cutlass bearings,boat. imo And the real speed guys are big on this.



Thanks for this procedure - I would never have undertaken this without it.

Al

cab13367
05-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Thanks Doc, I'll give it a shot. And after reading some of Brian Raymond's posts about why it's important, I definitely want this to be right. For one thing, it explains why my shaft seal has always been leaky even after I changed out the packing rope last summer.

deafgoose
05-28-2011, 12:57 PM
Thanks Doc, I'll give it a shot. And after reading some of Brian Raymond's posts about why it's important, I definitely want this to be right. For one thing, it explains why my shaft seal has always been leaky even after I changed out the packing rope last summer.

Does your boat have a drip-less seal?

cab13367
05-28-2011, 02:47 PM
Does your boat have a drip-less seal?

No, it does not. I think the dripless seals came out in 2007 on the Moombas.

rdlangston13
05-28-2011, 03:28 PM
Thanks Doc, I'll give it a shot. And after reading some of Brian Raymond's posts about why it's important, I definitely want this to be right. For one thing, it explains why my shaft seal has always been leaky even after I changed out the packing rope last summer.

how leaky is leaky on a non dripless shaft seal?

cab13367
05-28-2011, 04:55 PM
Well, I think I may have to throw in the towel on this one and take it to the dealer to do. I cannot get the engine to budge. I loosened all 4 trunnion pins on the rear engine mount. I cannot get a pry bar in there to get any sort of leverage so I have been beating on the side of the engine (at the motor mount) with a block of wood and a sledgehammer. It has not moved at all.

Any ideas for those that have done this? I have not loosened the pins on the front engine mounts, per doc's advise. I might try that next.

Al

cab13367
05-28-2011, 04:56 PM
how leaky is leaky on a non dripless shaft seal?

Well, you're supposed to get one drip every 30-45 seconds. I had a slow but steady stream coming in.

cab13367
05-29-2011, 03:06 AM
I finally was able to get the gap closed to within spec. I started out with a .014" gap at the 9 o'clock position and zero gap at the 3 o'clock position (couplers touching). I didn't have a pry bar so I tried to use a block of wood and a sledgehammer to move the rear of the engine to starboard to close the gap at the couplers but it would not budge. Finally went over to the neighbor's and borrowed his 4' long pry bar and that did the trick. Ended up sliding the rear of the engine about 1/4" to starboard. The gap is now .002" from about 1 o'clock to 6 o'clock and zero gap (my smallest feeler gauge, .0015" would not go in) from 6 o'clock to about 1 o'clock. Is that good enough?

A big thank you do Doug (DOCDRS) for answering my e-mails today and providing helpful hints that eventually got me thru this. I was ready to throw in the towel and take it to the dealer next week. A pry bar is definitely the way to go.

I will post up a few pics tomorrow.

Glad this one is behind me!

Al

DOCDRS
05-29-2011, 12:15 PM
that sounds great .... .014 down to .002 is super..... although the goal is to get it less than .002, .003 or less is acceptable in most books. so it just depends how anal you are. thanks for making this post Al, now that you look back you probably are thinking with the proper tools it really isn't that hard a procedure and now your alignment is .012 better.
I've always been a proponent of alignment , and as Al discovered , your alignment can be out and you will not notice any vibration. It needs to be checked regularly as the rubber in your motor mounst will change over time...

rdlangston13
05-29-2011, 02:21 PM
can we get a picture posted of what exactly these motor mounts look like and where the adjustment needs to be made at?

cab13367
06-03-2011, 02:40 AM
can we get a picture posted of what exactly these motor mounts look like and where the adjustment needs to be made at?

This is a pic of the couplers. First thing to do is loosen the 4 bolts holding them together then take a feeler gauge and measure the gap at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/2519af7d.jpg

This is the port side, rear motor mount. The two nuts in the pic hold the trunnion pins in place. Loosen these two nuts then tap the pins toward the rear of the boat to loosen them and allow the motor mount to slide along the trunnion. Do the same for on the rear starboard side motor mount.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/b24bbb4f.jpg

Mark the trunnion as shown in the pic below so you know if you are moving the engine and by how much.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/fcde935a.jpg

This pic shows how to position a 4' pry bar in order to slide the engine to starboard. The blue thing is a steel chisel and was the right thickness for the job.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/56f1f2fb.jpg

cab13367
06-03-2011, 02:43 AM
This shows how much I moved the engine (about a 1/4") to close a .014" gap at the couplers to .002". Follow the instructions on the first page of this post to find out which way to move the engine depending on where your gap is.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/fa8db90b.jpg

deafgoose
06-03-2011, 02:50 AM
Those pics are priceless! Thanks so much for posting.

I am now confident that I could do this job myself.

rdlangston13
06-03-2011, 10:26 AM
[QUOTE=deafgoose;141506]Those pics are priceless! Thanks so much for posting.

I am now confident that I could do this job myself.[/QUOTE

as ami! Thanks!

squeeg333
06-03-2011, 04:45 PM
Al, great pics for sure. I ned to re-check my alignment more closely too, I just have a sneaking suspicion after my whole sturt bushing debacle that it needs to be aligned.

When you say tap on the pins, I am sort of unclear what pins you're talking about. You losen the bolts on the trunions, and then where do you tap (before you start prying)??

squeeg333
06-03-2011, 06:35 PM
Nevermind Al. Took a look inside the engine compartment just now, and saw what pins you were talking about. Done and done.

cab13367
06-03-2011, 08:27 PM
Nevermind Al. Took a look inside the engine compartment just now, and saw what pins you were talking about. Done and done.

Sorry that was unclear. For the benefit of others, the "bolts" that the nuts are threaded on are not really bolts, those are the pins. So just back the nuts off almost all the way to the end then gently tap the threaded end of the pins towards the rear of the boat and they will pop loose.

squeeg333
06-03-2011, 11:18 PM
So I've got an additional question for you guys regarding this. I was able to move the engine around to attempt to get the engine aligned, got it pretty close but was seeing some strange numbers. So did a little more looking and found out that when the shaft is fully uncoupled from the v-drive, and the shaft coupling pulled away from the v-drive coupling a little ways (to get the prop shaft coupling off of the shoulder fit on the v-drive coupling), that the prop shaft isn't sitting in it's "natural" position.

The prop shaft, with no pressure of alignment with the bolts, or the fit of the couplings, is offset to the starboard by about 3/8". So, when coupling the shaft together, the shaft actually has to be pulled to the Port side by that amount to mate up the couplings. So, I'm at an impass.

I think what I am going to do is butt the couplings together as they are both in their natural position, and check the alignment that way. If both starboard and port sides are the same, it tells me (I think) that I have to more the whole engine to the starboard. However, and I hope this is the case, that they aren't aligned, and I need to move either the front or back of the engine to clear up the majority of this. The reason I say that is because I have a very small amount of room that I can move the back of the engine to the starboard (the muffler is just about to hit the starboard v-drive divider). So I hope I only need to move the front of the engine to clear up this gap.

What do you guys think. Does this make sense. If I would have thought about it, I would have taken a photo of the coupling.

Any other options you guys can think of?? Like I said, I've only got a small amount of room to move the back of the engine to the starboard, so I don't have much fudge room for the back...

Help!!

rdlangston13
06-04-2011, 12:22 AM
is your strut bent?

kaneboats
06-04-2011, 01:21 AM
So I've got an additional question for you guys regarding this. I was able to move the engine around to attempt to get the engine aligned, got it pretty close but was seeing some strange numbers. So did a little more looking and found out that when the shaft is fully uncoupled from the v-drive, and the shaft coupling pulled away from the v-drive coupling a little ways (to get the prop shaft coupling off of the shoulder fit on the v-drive coupling), that the prop shaft isn't sitting in it's "natural" position.


This is my issue with the whole process. What keeps the prop shaft from adjusting to its own "natural" position or sitting in its own natural spot or moving from there when it's uncoupled? How do you account for this?

rdlangston13
06-04-2011, 10:34 AM
This is my issue with the whole process. What keeps the prop shaft from adjusting to its own "natural" position or sitting in its own natural spot or moving from there when it's uncoupled? How do you account for this?

i think that the idea is since the shaft is center in the strut as well as in the packing at the thru hull then it should be held straight where it is supposed to be. if there is a large variance then it could be that something is bent?

cab13367
06-04-2011, 11:28 AM
So I've got an additional question for you guys regarding this. I was able to move the engine around to attempt to get the engine aligned, got it pretty close but was seeing some strange numbers. So did a little more looking and found out that when the shaft is fully uncoupled from the v-drive, and the shaft coupling pulled away from the v-drive coupling a little ways (to get the prop shaft coupling off of the shoulder fit on the v-drive coupling), that the prop shaft isn't sitting in it's "natural" position.

The prop shaft, with no pressure of alignment with the bolts, or the fit of the couplings, is offset to the starboard by about 3/8". So, when coupling the shaft together, the shaft actually has to be pulled to the Port side by that amount to mate up the couplings. So, I'm at an impass.

I think what I am going to do is butt the couplings together as they are both in their natural position, and check the alignment that way. If both starboard and port sides are the same, it tells me (I think) that I have to more the whole engine to the starboard. However, and I hope this is the case, that they aren't aligned, and I need to move either the front or back of the engine to clear up the majority of this. The reason I say that is because I have a very small amount of room that I can move the back of the engine to the starboard (the muffler is just about to hit the starboard v-drive divider). So I hope I only need to move the front of the engine to clear up this gap.

What do you guys think. Does this make sense. If I would have thought about it, I would have taken a photo of the coupling.

Any other options you guys can think of?? Like I said, I've only got a small amount of room to move the back of the engine to the starboard, so I don't have much fudge room for the back...

Help!!

First thing I would do is remove all the coupler bolts then have someone slowly spin the prop and see if the prop shaft coupling moves around or spins true. If it moves around, then you have a bent prop shaft. If it spins true, then move the front of the engine to starboard to line up the v-drive coupling with the the prop shaft coupling. Once it's lined up, I would lock down ONE of the front pins so that when you slide the back of the engine to even out the gap, the engine is rotating about one fixed point. This is what I did when I slid the rear of the engine to starboard - I loosened one of the front pins and locked down the other so that the front of the engine would not also slide.

On mine, the couplers stayed perfectly lined up even with the bolts loose (I didn't remove the bolts, just loosened them) and I was moving the rear of the engine which led me to believe that that couplers mate with each other somehow, keeping them always aligned.

Let us know how it goes.

Al

cab13367
06-04-2011, 11:44 AM
This is my issue with the whole process. What keeps the prop shaft from adjusting to its own "natural" position or sitting in its own natural spot or moving from there when it's uncoupled? How do you account for this?

Kane,

I wondered about this too since the couplers on mine stayed perfectly lined up. I think that they must mate up somehow to keep aligned. I did not remove the coupler bolts, just loosened them, so maybe that is what kept them in alignment.

Also, after I got the gap to within .002" on one side of the coupler and zero gap on the other side, I loosened the rear pins and one of the front pins to try and get the gap perfectly even. After doing that, I suddenly had gaps of .016" to .019" at different points around the coupler. What happened is when I loosened the pins, the whole engine must have slid forward a tad creating the large gaps. So I just moved the engine to starboard to even out the gaps so that it didn't vary more than .002" from any two points on the coupler. I then tightened all the trunnion pins and checked the gap again before tightening the coupler bolts and they were all betwen .004" and .007". I got tired of messing with it at the point and tightened all the coupler bolts and torqued them to spec.

I will keep an eye out on the shaft packing nut (I changed the packing rope again while I was in there) and see if starts leaking water in a steady stream, I may have to go in and close the gap a little tighter.

Al

kaneboats
06-06-2011, 10:08 AM
Excellent. That makes pretty good sense. I'm assuming, since I had a shaft and strut replacement at the very end of last season that it's all OK for now. I'll check it when I do my mid-season checkup and post up any adjustments I make.

squeeg333
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Well, I'm happy to report that I was successful in getting the engine and prop shaft coupling aligned. With phone call help from Doug (Docdrs), and some advice from Al, I was able to tackle this.

As I mentioned previously, when the coupling bolts were removed, and the two couplings were pulled away from each other so that the fit on the v-drive coupling was not engaged to the prop shaft coupling, the propeller shaft would naturally sit about 1/8" to the Starboard of the v-drive coupling. Sitting in this orientation, when mated up, the prop shaft was constantly being pulled to the port side. You can see in the first two photos below the offset of the two couplings.

So, to align the couplings I had to move the front of the engine. I loosened the front two trunnions by releasing the two trunnion pins. Then, using a crow bar, I was able to move the engine to the starboard until I was able to get them to line up. To check that, I repeatedly would check how the fit on the v-drive coupling affected the prop shaft when the two coupling were brought together. As you can see from the third photo, I had to move the engine about 1/4". Marking the trunnions prior to moving the engine was important, so you know where you started, and how far you've gone. The last two photos show how the coupling mates up now, just like it should. The photos have a bolt in them, but that bolt slips in very easily, meaning the couplings are concentric, and the prop shaft, when coupled with the v-drive, is still in it's 'natural' position.

Once I got the two coupling concentric, the next task was an engine alignment. This involved a lot of minor tweaking of both the front and back trunions, and more up and down movements than the side to side.

When raising or lowering the front of the engine, be sure to make a mark on a flat of the nut you will be turning and the top of the trunnion, so you know how many revolutions, or 'flats', you have turned the nut. Also, when raising or lowering the back of the engine, be sure to make identification marks so you know how many turns you've made, and to help you make smaller incremental changes (I marked the threads and the flat part of the trunnion in several locations).

I was able to get everything aligned to within .002 or less. It took me several hours to do all of this, as I was doing this by myself, but this is MUCH better than it was, and I am very pleased that the couplings are aligned, and everything is in it's natural state. The propeller turns much easier now as well.

Thanks again for all of the advise I got. This was kind of fun - though my knees weren't happy with me for about a day.

viking
06-06-2011, 04:10 PM
Are you guys doing this on the trailer or on the water?
Does it matter?

squeeg333
06-06-2011, 05:38 PM
I've done all mine on the trailer. I hear the recommended method is when it's in the water, but I'm not a big fan of sitting idle on the water while I check all of this. I'd rather be having fun. I think checking it on the trailer is an equivalent method.

DOCDRS
06-06-2011, 06:12 PM
Are you guys doing this on the trailer or on the water?
Does it matter?

In a perfect world water would be ideal but I don't know too many who do so sometimes we just have to live on our trailer.

DOCDRS
06-06-2011, 06:35 PM
Well, I'm happy to report that I was successful in getting the engine and prop shaft coupling aligned. With phone call help from Doug (Docdrs), and some advice from Al, I was able to tackle this.

As I mentioned previously, when the coupling bolts were removed, and the two couplings were pulled away from each other so that the fit on the v-drive coupling was not engaged to the prop shaft coupling, the propeller shaft would naturally sit about 1/8" to the Starboard of the v-drive coupling. Sitting in this orientation, when mated up, the prop shaft was constantly being pulled to the port side. You can see in the first two photos below the offset of the two couplings.

So, to align the couplings I had to move the front of the engine. I loosened the front two trunnions by releasing the two trunnion pins. Then, using a crow bar, I was able to move the engine to the starboard until I was able to get them to line up. To check that, I repeatedly would check how the fit on the v-drive coupling affected the prop shaft when the two coupling were brought together. As you can see from the third photo, I had to move the engine about 1/4". Marking the trunnions prior to moving the engine was important, so you know where you started, and how far you've gone. The last two photos show how the coupling mates up now, just like it should. The photos have a bolt in them, but that bolt slips in very easily, meaning the couplings are concentric, and the prop shaft, when coupled with the v-drive, is still in it's 'natural' position.

Once I got the two coupling concentric, the next task was an engine alignment. This involved a lot of minor tweaking of both the front and back trunions, and more up and down movements than the side to side.

When raising or lowering the front of the engine, be sure to make a mark on a flat of the nut you will be turning and the top of the trunnion, so you know how many revolutions, or 'flats', you have turned the nut. Also, when raising or lowering the back of the engine, be sure to make identification marks so you know how many turns you've made, and to help you make smaller incremental changes (I marked the threads and the flat part of the trunnion in several locations).

I was able to get everything aligned to within .002 or less. It took me several hours to do all of this, as I was doing this by myself, but this is MUCH better than it was, and I am very pleased that the couplings are aligned, and everything is in it's natural state. The propeller turns much easier now as well.

Thanks again for all of the advise I got. This was kind of fun - though my knees weren't happy with me for about a day.


Great job .....thanks for the clear pics.....good to see more guys tackling this
btw , nice chattin with ya.....cheers

squeeg333
06-09-2011, 01:27 PM
Thanks again Doug. I appreciate the help, and was a pleasure chatting with ya.

Just a word of advise to anyone who tackles this, and decides to replace their coupling bolts. Be sure to use anti-sieze on the threads prior to tightening things up. I made the mistake of assembling the new coupling bolts and nylocks dry. The 4th one decided to gall on me - and it galled to the point of siezing. So, 35 minutes later (I was using a dul hacksaw blade first - then switched to a brand new one and it cut like butter) I was able to get thru the bolt. I removed the ones I had already tightened, and replaced all with new parts, and put nickel anti-sieze on them. Two of the three that I removed that had already been tightened were galling as they were coming part.

Just a work of caution here. It shouldn't have been this difficult, but, who knows. Maybe just got a bad batch. But stainless has a tendancy to gall, and if it does, it can be a day ender. I got my new hardware from McMaster, as I couldn't find anything local.

Happy time!

cab13367
06-10-2011, 01:07 AM
Thanks again Doug. I appreciate the help, and was a pleasure chatting with ya.

Just a word of advise to anyone who tackles this, and decides to replace their coupling bolts. Be sure to use anti-sieze on the threads prior to tightening things up. I made the mistake of assembling the new coupling bolts and nylocks dry. The 4th one decided to gall on me - and it galled to the point of siezing. So, 35 minutes later (I was using a dul hacksaw blade first - then switched to a brand new one and it cut like butter) I was able to get thru the bolt. I removed the ones I had already tightened, and replaced all with new parts, and put nickel anti-sieze on them. Two of the three that I removed that had already been tightened were galling as they were coming part.

Just a work of caution here. It shouldn't have been this difficult, but, who knows. Maybe just got a bad batch. But stainless has a tendancy to gall, and if it does, it can be a day ender. I got my new hardware from McMaster, as I couldn't find anything local.

Happy time!

So why did you decide to replace the bolts? I just loosened mine, moved the engine, then tightened them back up. I did not have any galling issues.

deafgoose
06-10-2011, 01:25 AM
How are you guys accessing the shaft?

Removing the floor?

cab13367
06-10-2011, 11:03 AM
How are you guys accessing the shaft?

Removing the floor?

Just remove the vdrive cover and reach around it. I also disconnected some hoses and electrical that were in the way.

squeeg333
06-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Al, I decided to replace the bolts because it looks like the bolts had never been tightened from day one. I think it was last fall, during winterizing, that I found all four bolts were loose. I removed one at that time, and found that the threads that weren't covered by the nuts had been flattened from being worked back and forth. I'm guessing, seeing that damage, that these bolts had never been tightened. I just felt better replaceing them... but then, right on cue, I had issues (the galling). It's all good now, but just frustrating. The old studs were in decent shape besides the flattened threads.

DOCDRS
06-10-2011, 06:56 PM
After a period of checks , the nylocks should be replaced as the nylon wears out its holding power

rdlangston13
06-14-2011, 08:59 PM
So I am sitting in my boat as I tyPe this, been working on this all day minus 4 hours when the sun was directly over head. Mine was way off and I had to raise the front of the engine half a turn and am now trying to adjust the left right movement and this thing will not budge. I have the 2 pins on either side of the rear loose and am using a 3 foot pry bar and giving it my all, any suggestions?

DOCDRS
06-14-2011, 09:11 PM
While prying on the motor mount tap the trunnion with a hammer. Vibration should set it free

squeeg333
06-14-2011, 11:42 PM
The rear is the tough one. I think Doug has it right, try tapping on the trunnion while prying. Fortunately, I didn't have to do this, but vibrations should shake it loose. Good luck man! One thing to check is that all four of the trunnion pins are loose, loose enough to wiggle them by hand. If any of them are still tight, you won't get it to move no matter what you do!!

rdlangston13
06-22-2011, 10:32 PM
i never got it better than .017. called a local shop and the owner said dont worry about it.

cab13367
06-22-2011, 10:40 PM
i never got it better than .017. called a local shop and the owner said dont worry about it.

Was it consistent all the way around? Did you recheck the gap after you torqued down the coupler bolts?

rdlangston13
06-24-2011, 12:26 AM
Was it consistent all the way around? Did you recheck the gap after you torqued down the coupler bolts?

no matter where the shaft was turned the gap was on the port side lower section. after torquing the coupler down there will be no gap since it will be pressed together right?

cab13367
06-24-2011, 12:39 AM
no matter where the shaft was turned the gap was on the port side lower section.

That's good because that means your shaft is not bent.


after torquing the coupler down there will be no gap since it will be pressed together right?

No. There should always be a slight, consistent gap (.002") all the way around if it's aligned properly.

rdlangston13
06-24-2011, 10:28 AM
That's good because that means your shaft is not bent.



No. There should always be a slight, consistent gap (.002") all the way around if it's aligned properly.

the reason it never got smalled than .017 is because the motor just would not move. and i thought if you tightened the couplers up it pull the two together. have a gab after tightening the bolts makes no sense to me

DOCDRS
06-24-2011, 01:32 PM
the reason it never got smalled than .017 is because the motor just would not move. and i thought if you tightened the couplers up it pull the two together. have a gab after tightening the bolts makes no sense to me

NO, tightning anything should not adjust the alignment. Tightening just holds everything where it is supposed to be. If when you rotate your shaft the gap remains constant in the same place then as Al stated your shaft is not bent. But .017 is a huge misalignment. The goal is to not have more than a .002 gap anywhere around the coupler not .002 around the entire coupler, although if this were the case then if you pulled them a little closer that .002 would drop to 0 which is what is perfect. You have to prybar and tap the trunnion to free the engine mount on its mount. Once you get it free it usu moves easier.

squeeg333
06-28-2011, 05:28 PM
I guess I'm confused on that as well. If we torque the 4 coupling bolts to spec, that should pull the two coupling faces together to have no gap. At least, that's what I would think?

brain_rinse
06-28-2011, 06:03 PM
I agree... I'd expect a gap of 0 when the bolts are tightened down, regardless of shaft alignment.

rdlangston13
06-28-2011, 07:35 PM
NO, tightning anything should not adjust the alignment. Tightening just holds everything where it is supposed to be. If when you rotate your shaft the gap remains constant in the same place then as Al stated your shaft is not bent. But .017 is a huge misalignment. The goal is to not have more than a .002 gap anywhere around the coupler not .002 around the entire coupler, although if this were the case then if you pulled them a little closer that .002 would drop to 0 which is what is perfect. You have to prybar and tap the trunnion to free the engine mount on its mount. Once you get it free it usu moves easier.

i used a crow back and a mini sledge and pryed and beat ever direction and it would not move. ill get the pros to do it this winter, im sure mine is not the worst since i am pretty positive 90% of the boating community does not even know this should be done.

cab13367
06-28-2011, 09:08 PM
and i thought if you tightened the couplers up it pull the two together. have a gab after tightening the bolts makes no sense to me


I guess I'm confused on that as well. If we torque the 4 coupling bolts to spec, that should pull the two coupling faces together to have no gap. At least, that's what I would think?


I agree... I'd expect a gap of 0 when the bolts are tightened down, regardless of shaft alignment.

Guys,

If the gap is uneven and it's closing to zero when the bolts are tightened, then that means the shaft is bending or the couplers are deforming. The specified torque on the bolts is only 30 ft-lbs and if you tighten the 4 little bolts to that spec, it's not going to be enough force to bend the shaft or the couplers and close the gap to zero. Make sense?

Al

brain_rinse
06-28-2011, 09:30 PM
Guys,

If the gap is uneven and it's closing to zero when the bolts are tightened, then that means the shaft is bending or the couplers are deforming. The specified torque on the bolts is only 30 ft-lbs and if you tighten the 4 little bolts to that spec, it's not going to be enough force to bend the shaft or the couplers and close the gap to zero. Make sense?

Al
We're talking thousandths of an inch so I would expect that to transfer to the prop shaft and couplers. It would be an easy test though... rdlangston do you still have a .017 gap when you tighten up your couplers to spec?

rdlangston13
06-28-2011, 10:11 PM
We're talking thousandths of an inch so I would expect that to transfer to the prop shaft and couplers. It would be an easy test though... rdlangston do you still have a .017 gap when you tighten up your couplers to spec?

not sure. and mine is not torqued exactly to 30 ftlbs, i dont see how yall get a torque wrench on there. i had hell with two box wrench. i didnt really crank on it and the rachet i used was only 1 foot or so long and i dont think i put more than 30 lbs of force on it.

cab13367
06-28-2011, 10:35 PM
We're talking thousandths of an inch so I would expect that to transfer to the prop shaft and couplers. It would be an easy test though... rdlangston do you still have a .017 gap when you tighten up your couplers to spec?

Well, I know mine are torqued to 30 and there is a gap all around between the couplers from about .003" to .007" if I remember correctly.


not sure. and mine is not torqued exactly to 30 ftlbs, i dont see how yall get a torque wrench on there. i had hell with two box wrench. i didnt really crank on it and the rachet i used was only 1 foot or so long and i dont think i put more than 30 lbs of force on it.

yeah, it's a little tricky but it can be done. You have to rotate the coupler to get the bolts in just the right place.

brain_rinse
06-29-2011, 10:55 AM
Well, I know mine are torqued to 30 and there is a gap all around between the couplers from about .003" to .007" if I remember correctly.
Well that's just weird. :) OK, so if the gap doesn't change why bother taking the bolts out to check the gap?

DOCDRS
06-29-2011, 11:37 AM
Well, I know mine are torqued to 30 and there is a gap all around between the couplers from about .003" to .007" if I remember correctly.





This does not seem right.......once you tighten the bolts the gap goes to 0 all around.......you cannot have a gap or space between the coupler and the vdrive. You loosen them to see if things are aligned.

cab13367
06-29-2011, 04:08 PM
This does not seem right.......once you tighten the bolts the gap goes to 0 all around.......you cannot have a gap or space between the coupler and the vdrive. You loosen them to see if things are aligned.

Sorry guys, I stand corrected. I rechecked the gaps after I tightened down the trunnions pins, not the coupler bolts, and at that time, I had gaps varying from about .003" to about .007". I didn't want to messs with it any further at that point and tightened up the coupler bolts. Sorry for the confusion.

kaneboats
06-30-2011, 02:06 PM
Check out this article on alignment. Lots of good stuff-- be sure to note the stuff about V-drives.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Alignment2.htm

rdlangston13
06-30-2011, 07:37 PM
so basically aligning it on land the trailer is pointless and as long as it its close it is good to go lol. thats what i got from that article.

DOCDRS
06-30-2011, 09:24 PM
so basically aligning it on land the trailer is pointless and as long as it its close it is good to go lol. thats what i got from that article.

Aligning it is a good scenario regardless. In the water is best. From the factory ?was prob on a boat rack.......the thing is to have it aligned, with some reference point. I read that article and some is good and some is not so......just because some guy wrote it does not make it right.......If its aligned with some reference point then any forces placed on the drivetrain are are uniformly distributed....Thats where the guy in that article does not relate to. Its basic physics and although the boat may flex if you can get it to within .002 why would you not!!!!! To not do so is just plain silly.

rdlangston13
06-30-2011, 09:37 PM
yes but if the boat flexes .002 on the trailer could be .02 on the water in any direction. inversly .002 on the water could be .02 on the trailer.

DOCDRS
06-30-2011, 09:57 PM
ok so next time I'm up i will check it on my lift then in the water......I do believe I have done this and there was no difference.......so I am confused why everyone refuses to check their alignment......it is a static thing while the boat is at rest.........what it does under speed is a factor of motor mount age and it bewilders me as to why guys try to come up with a reason why it is ok to not have your motor to prop shaft aligned.....seriously how stupid can you be?

kaneboats
06-30-2011, 10:10 PM
I wasn't trying to start fights with that article. If you look at the v-drive section he definitely says you better get it close. But he does raise the point that there are other factors at play. I'd love to hear what you find when you do it in the water next time.

rdlangston13
06-30-2011, 10:12 PM
ok so next time I'm up i will check it on my lift then in the water......I do believe I have done this and there was no difference.......so I am confused why everyone refuses to check their alignment......it is a static thing while the boat is at rest.........what it does under speed is a factor of motor mount age and it bewilders me as to why guys try to come up with a reason why it is ok to not have your motor to prop shaft aligned.....seriously how stupid can you be?

hey i tried to check and did check it. engine would not budge.

DOCDRS
06-30-2011, 10:15 PM
i guess i just mean align it where ever you can......The dealers do it on the trailer , SC prob does it in the factory on a cradle......I'm just saying it changes over time so check it........I have done it many times and with 2 guys its a 20 minute job.....1 guy and it takes about an hour.

rdlangston13
06-30-2011, 11:46 PM
i guess i just mean align it where ever you can......The dealers do it on the trailer , SC prob does it in the factory on a cradle......I'm just saying it changes over time so check it........I have done it many times and with 2 guys its a 20 minute job.....1 guy and it takes about an hour.

i spent about 8 hours over the course of two days fighting it and its still not at .002. i have bad luck

DOCDRS
06-30-2011, 11:53 PM
so what is it at and at what point? there are basically 8 points on the clock....if you are not out that much then it is simply a minor rear leg adjustment. It really isn't rocket science. If your out at 3 or 9 oclock then you have to slide the engine laterally ( the biggest pita) forward trunnions for large adjustments , stern for minor .005 or less

rdlangston13
07-01-2011, 08:56 AM
3 or 9 o clock depending on which way you look at it. .017 so 1/58th of an inch

squeeg333
07-01-2011, 12:21 PM
I concur, it's good to have it aligned as good as one can get it. If you can't get the engine to move, and can live with the alignment as is, I wouldn't take it into a shop to have them do it. I think the biggest point is you should check it, and try to improve it if it's out. If you can get it to .002 or less, you should.

When I aligned mine after replacing the strut bushings, it was WAY out - the couplers were offset concetricallyby at least 1/8". I'm surprised I didn't notice any vibrations. So, yeh, the system is forgiving, but for how long? Metal fatigue will set in, and, invaribly cause issues in the future - so I can safely say I am very glad I got mine aligned.

I just think it's good practice to check it, and improve it if you can. At the end of the day it's your boat, and your investmet, so you gotta live with it!

walb0244
07-21-2011, 05:29 PM
I started this process. Was worried about not being able to get it done before leaving on vacation so I'm gonna put it off till I get back. I was working on doing fluid changes and such and noticed this forum so thought I would look at this. Well when I looked at the bolts holding the two shafts together they were loose and you could spin them by hand. I know someone else on here had the same problem and replaced the bolts. I took a picture of the bolts so everyone could see. The lock nuts could be spun off by hand so they weren't working that well anymore either. The threads on the bolts were pretty much shot from being loose. Also, my bolts were 2 1/4" long for anyone that wants to know if they replace them.

squeeg333
07-21-2011, 07:18 PM
Found the exact same issue when I first went to do an engine alignment. Those flat threads are the ones inside the coupling, and don't come into contact with the locknuts, but it is good practice to replace a bolt showing any signs of damage. I replaced both the bolts and locknuts with new this year, and am glad I did. Just good piece of mind. I check them for tightness once in a while, just to make sure they don't vibrate loose.

One piece of advice I'd give when putting new bolts and nuts in is use some anti-sieze on the threads, or some other form of thread lubricant. As they are stainless bolts and nuts (assuming that's what you replace them with), they can gall. And once Stainless galls, it's game over. I had to cut one of the bolts out of my boat. Not fun.

walb0244
07-22-2011, 02:51 AM
Yeah I put Some on the bolts so they wouldn't seize up. I was worried that the flats in the threads was from where the bolts were loose. Also since the lock nuts were shot I went ahead and replaced it all. Now just actually need to do the alignment part.

kaneboats
07-22-2011, 10:06 AM
FYI: If anyone decides to do a shaft replacement you can order a replacement drive shaft from Elbert's. It works great. It also makes future changes much easier because of the A.R.E. system. However, you should know the coupler is slightly different than the stock one and requires shorter bolts. All the info you need can be found on his site:

http://www.elberts.com/system.htm

mk_deuce
07-28-2011, 10:02 PM
Im a little lost. I loosened all 4 bolts and took measurements at 3,6,9, & 12 o'clock all while trying to hold the couplers together. My gap was uniformly way bigger than .005 at all points. In fact it was big enough to fit the biggest feeler through. Should I be checking the gap with the bolts tightened to get more accurate numbers? Im supposed to be running the feeler gauage through the gap between couplers correct?

Boonejeepin
07-28-2011, 10:40 PM
I am having the same issue. I can't close the gap. Does it just need to be a .002 difference or less at the reference points (could be .012 and .014)?

yotaismygame
07-16-2014, 12:56 AM
I'm having the same problem as the two guys above me. What's the solution for this?

kaneboats
07-16-2014, 01:38 AM
Maybe Doc can give us a new tutorial on how to check this?????

DOCDRS
07-16-2014, 01:46 PM
1. Loosen the 4 9/16 bolts a few turns so you can free the driveshaft output flange from the prop shaft flange.......if the two flanges are stuck together just bump the engine over

2. Now pull the prop shaft flange into the vdrive out put flange with your left hand check the gap at 12 then at 6 then at 3 o'clock . To do 9 you will have pull with left and measure with right. Yes it may require a contortion move. If you are not aligned one of these will be 0 and the others will be open. If all are open then go have a bowl of wheaties or grow a pair and pull harder on the prop shaft.


When the bolts are tight there will be no gap between the coupler plates even when misaligned . When you loosen the bolts sometimes there is no gap until you free the two halves. If you are getting open points all around the coupler then you are not bringing the prop shaft half close enough to the vdrive half.

Hope this helps, let me know

yotaismygame
07-16-2014, 02:15 PM
I loosened all 4 which made a gap. You're saying the two flanges should be able to completely separate? This was not happening for me. If I applied pressure with my left and measured with my right there was no changes. So it sounds like they are stuck together? I had a big gap all the way around even when applying pressure.

Boonejeepin
07-22-2014, 12:51 AM
I loosened all 4 which made a gap. You're saying the two flanges should be able to completely separate? This was not happening for me. If I applied pressure with my left and measured with my right there was no changes. So it sounds like they are stuck together? I had a big gap all the way around even when applying pressure.

Spin the shaft from the prop end to free the coupler.

I also found the trick to closing the gap was to push the shaft in from the prop side. I could get it close on the coupler side but was able to close the gap by forcing the shaft toward the v-drive from the prop.

DOCDRS
07-22-2014, 10:40 AM
With the nuts loose you should be able to move the prop shaft and coupler front to back the amount that you loosen the nuts. Sometimes the two couplers can be stuck and a slight bump of the engine over will free them if your boat is in the water or as mentioned above holding the prop and turning or and push pulling to free the couplers if out of the water. Sounds like your not measuring between the couplers if you have a gap when the bolts are tight