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mmandley
04-26-2010, 06:27 PM
Wanted to get some thoughts before i pull the trigger on my ballast upgrade.

I got a 650 nose bag. Its a bag that goes under the bow seats. It has 3 fill locations. One on each leg and on center top of bag.

My plan is this.. Use the vent hole on the ski locker bag to plumb a line to the top of the bow sac. Then add drain pumps to both legs of the nose bag so it will drain. Will the bag be able to vent like this at all? I don't want it full of air.

Another option im thinking is ski locker bag to a leg of the nose bag for filling. Then use the other leg for draining and the top fill point as a vent line.

My concern is will the bag drain all the way with only a drain pump on one leg?

brain_rinse
04-26-2010, 06:38 PM
You'll need 2 drain pumps unless you want to pick up one of the legs to force the water to the other side by hand. I think you'll want a vent, especially if you're joining it to the ski locker bag.

Here is my setup:
Fill from the top side of one of the legs (dedicated pump.)
Drain pumps at the bottom of both legs, each with their own new thru-hull outlet.
Vent from the center/top, tied into one of the drain lines.

mmandley
04-26-2010, 06:43 PM
You'll need 2 drain pumps unless you want to pick up one of the legs to force the water to the other side by hand. I think you'll want a vent, especially if you're joining it to the ski locker bag.

Here is my setup:
Fill from the top side of one of the legs (dedicated pump.)
Drain pumps at the bottom of both legs, each with their own new thru-hull outlet.
Vent from the center/top, tied into one of the drain lines.

See if i had 4 or 5 fill points i could do that. I don't have that on this bag. Its got 3 fill points.

1 in each leg and 1 center top of bag.

brain_rinse
04-26-2010, 06:47 PM
Yeah that does make things interesting. So the only port on the top side is the one in the center, correct? The two leg ports are on the bottom side of the leg?

mmandley
04-26-2010, 06:51 PM
Yup both legs have ports on the bottom and the last port is top center. Im thinking im going to have to vent the top hole and only be able to drain one leg. I know this is going to leave water in the bag though on the other leg.

If i got T800s on the legs i think air can pass threw them but water wont because its heavy and non compressible. Just not sure if this is a thought or a reality.

2007 Outback V
04-26-2010, 07:54 PM
How about using a reversible pump on a new hull fitting?

mmandley
04-26-2010, 08:01 PM
I have been considering that, but i have to install a dedicated line to it then and install a new fitting on the bottom of the boat as reversible pumps cant run dry.

I talked with Wake Makers today they are going to see what they can come up with also.

04OUTBACK
04-26-2010, 09:50 PM
WHAT IF...
You ran overflow out of center sac into either left or right side.. vent out of the top and drain out of right.. wouldn't gravity/water siphoning pull it out of the fill side back into center sac as it drains?

Wakemakers sells a kit.. not sure of the parts... but that is what it's intention is.. i don't see the kit any more, but you could check with them...

cab13367
04-26-2010, 10:46 PM
mike,

I think I asked you this on the lake yesterday but why are you putting a bow bag in? Did you way that you are trying to make a longer surf wake?

Al

DOCDRS
04-26-2010, 11:20 PM
so each fill is going to need a vented loop or one way valve unless your useing a sprinkler so they don't self drain. what if you use the top to fill with a 1" line then the bottoms to drain with a vent line with one way valve as with the old sprinkler set up drain system. A 1 " line will give you 6-8 minute fill time which is acceptable? but maybe i'm missing something?

Al?

yes i was, maybe i should read a little closer.......option 2 should work, didn't realize you were using the vent on belly to fill the bow and do as newt says with the fill line

mmandley
04-27-2010, 02:50 AM
mike,

I think I asked you this on the lake yesterday but why are you putting a bow bag in? Did you way that you are trying to make a longer surf wake?

Al

Yes Al i want to get my wave longer. Also i am doing something wring because my wave does not curl around like everyone elses does. Its very rampy and tall but fairly straight, doesn't have a tail to help push the board.

I think i understand your idea Ryan. I will have to re read this in the am as im tired and not thinking as clearly as normal..Is there a normal?? lol

cab13367
04-27-2010, 10:47 AM
Yes Al i want to get my wave longer. Also i am doing something wring because my wave does not curl around like everyone elses does. Its very rampy and tall but fairly straight, doesn't have a tail to help push the board.

I think i understand your idea Ryan. I will have to re read this in the am as im tired and not thinking as clearly as normal..Is there a normal?? lol

Hmm, don't know what the difference could be. We have the same hull and same ballast configuration, only diff is the prop and I don't think that would make much difference. I'll have to jump on your boat next time and check it out. I did notice that u are sitting in the driver's seat whereas I stand along the center line of the boat (on top of the ski locker) so that my weight doesn't counteract the surf side ballast. I also have the wakeplate all the way up whereas I think u said u had yours halfway down.

mmandley
04-27-2010, 11:02 AM
Yes your correct on both accounts but i wouldn't think that would be a huge difference eighter on the curl, but maybe it does. I'll try standing on the locker next time. It just looks to me when i put the plate all the way up and the nose it straight up all i get is more ramp but less length

Razzman
04-27-2010, 11:35 AM
I can get a pretty big wave without any center/nose ballast at all and i sit in the drivers seat on the bolster. I do however have at least 4-5 human ballast subjects when surfing on the surfside.So I run 4-5 peeps, plate all the way up, 750lbs surfside, around 10.5 mph.

Now here's a really weird observation i made last year. We were running the normal crew and while surfing, one peep of about 180lbs moves over to the rear locker (drivers side) to get a silver bullet and the wave immediately lengthened but maintained it's height and form! I left him there and we continued. I haven't been able to get out yet to duplicate but it was weird that almost 200 lbs dark side would do that.

kaneboats
04-27-2010, 11:53 AM
Hmm, don't know what the difference could be. We have the same hull and same ballast configuration, only diff is the prop and I don't think that would make much difference. I'll have to jump on your boat next time and check it out. I did notice that u are sitting in the driver's seat whereas I stand along the center line of the boat (on top of the ski locker) so that my weight doesn't counteract the surf side ballast. I also have the wakeplate all the way up whereas I think u said u had yours halfway down.

Once the wake is big enough, moving a small bit of weight forward or back or further outboard on the boat will change the shape-- as will the wakeplate. And, the prop also makes a difference in shape at this point. I noticed over the weekend that the higher pitched props (lower RPM's, less holeshot but higher top speed) actually threw a cleaner surf wake.

Edit: In other words, cab, you are running one of the two best surf wake props in my estimation.

WaterBullDawg1980
04-27-2010, 11:57 AM
I can get a pretty big wave without any center/nose ballast at all and i sit in the drivers seat on the bolster. I do however have at least 4-5 human ballast subjects when surfing on the surfside.So I run 4-5 peeps, plate all the way up, 750lbs surfside, around 10.5 mph.

Now here's a really weird observation i made last year. We were running the normal crew and while surfing, one peep of about 180lbs moves over to the rear locker (drivers side) to get a silver bullet and the wave immediately lengthened but maintained it's height and form! I left him there and we continued. I haven't been able to get out yet to duplicate but it was weird that almost 200 lbs dark side would do that.

That is very interesting Razz....So when your 1 buddy went to get a cold one, you could actually see a noticable difference in the length of the wave?? You gotta grab those 4-5 together again and put this to test! Would be very interested in seeing this tested.

What were the weights of the 4-5 people?

Razzman
04-27-2010, 12:11 PM
That is very interesting Razz....So when your 1 buddy went to get a cold one, you could actually see a noticable difference in the length of the wave?? You gotta grab those 4-5 together again and put this to test! Would be very interested in seeing this tested.

What were the weights of the 4-5 people?

A very noticable difference. Weight of peeps was probably in the 750 lb range, 3 big guys and two of my grandsons. Hopefully i can replicate again soon, if not then it won't be until early June.

mmandley
04-27-2010, 12:53 PM
Razz i see your point when we surf and its all my buddies i can move peeps around and see the wave reshape. Sunday its was just us 3 and when i went to the nose i saw the wave lengthen but when i surfed my buddy Carlos a lot smaller guy didnt make much difference.

This is one of the reasons i want the nose bag. Also with that big 750 in the back i stand my on tail now as you can see in the pic Al posted. Thats 10 ish mph and the wave was very steep and i could get it cleaned up but it was short IMO.

When i see Als pics of his wave it has a nice long pocket, look behind his son in the video and you see the wave curl back around him and that curl is whats carrying the board. A straight rampy wave will not push the board forward, it pushes it out away and you constantly toe in hard to stay in it. At least thats how i see mine. Maybe its me. I need to get Al or Ryan out with me to help dial this in.

Im not going all summer with a crappy surf again LOL.

Razzman
04-27-2010, 01:39 PM
Mike this is my typical wave with the setup as stated above, now this is before the accidental revelation. :p Now it's not as far back as Al's but it's not right up at the platform either and it generates a lot of speed and is great for ariels. Remember that pic was taken by somebody sitting and not hanging over like most you see and even then it's pretty big.

jasonwm
04-27-2010, 05:51 PM
Mike-

Give me a call and we can run through the options that are available to you.

If anyone else is interested I'm happy to post them here as well, I just through I would save the time of typing it out.

Razzman
04-28-2010, 11:23 AM
Too bad the gas doesnt stay full. :(

One could only wish :rolleyes: