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Davpmars
06-21-2010, 12:05 PM
I have done a little research on the different engine manufacturers for boat companies such as Moomba, Malibu, Master Craft, and Tige and it seems like most use the Indmar.

What is the difference between Indmar and GM? Some Moomba boat owners say they have a Chevy motor in their boat and others say Indmar. Same for Malibu boat owners.

I know this is a Moomba Forum but I would also appreciate any insite to who makes the engines for the other boat makers mentioned.

Thanks

kojack
06-21-2010, 01:16 PM
Indmar is the company that supply the motor for the boat industry.i.e. skier's choice, mastercraft, ets. The block or engine is a GM. So all in the internal parts, i.e. crank, pistons and all that stuff is GM. Indmar add the water stuff, i.e. pump, riser and all those bell and whistle to change it from auto engine to boat engine.

Davpmars
06-21-2010, 02:09 PM
Indmar is the company that supply the motor for the boat industry.i.e. skier's choice, mastercraft, ets. The block or engine is a GM. So all in the internal parts, i.e. crank, pistons and all that stuff is GM. Indmar add the water stuff, i.e. pump, riser and all those bell and whistle to change it from auto engine to boat engine.

Is it safe to say then that all the boat manufacturers mentioned above (Malibu, Moomba, Tige, and MasterCraft) have Chevy engines in them but are all modified by Indmar to be marine ready? I guess I'm just supprised that there aren't other companies that do this same thing.

Waynes345
06-21-2010, 02:19 PM
Is it safe to say then that all the boat manufacturers mentioned above (Malibu, Moomba, Tige, and MasterCraft) have Chevy engines in them but are all modified by Indmar to be marine ready? I guess I'm just supprised that there aren't other companies that do this same thing.

PCM (Pleasure Craft Marine) is another supplier of marine engines in the same fashion. I have a PCM 350 Chevy in my OB.

viking
06-21-2010, 02:46 PM
My 90 Supra had a PCM Ford 351 engine
My 07 Moomba has Indmar GM 350
BOTH are SC products.

Alot of it depends on the year of boat, manufacturer, and contracts they have in place with the suppliers!

maxpower220
06-21-2010, 04:26 PM
Ford and Chevy used to be the main supplier of engines to the Marine engine makers (PCM, Mercruiser, Indmar). The companies (Indmar/PCM) take the GM (or Ford) blocks and marinize them for use in water/saltwater conditions by adding intakes, cooling systems, and exhaust systems. With the advent of EFI, they also added the electronics.
GM is the main supplier now because they still have a plant making the same small block 350. Ford no longer produces the 351W that was used. Once Ford made the modular 4.6/5.4 engines, they stopped pushrod engine production. Hence, everyone now uses a GM block.

Now, each boat maker has specs for engines in their boats. Indmar has a different EFI system for MasterCraft vs Skiers Choice vs Malibu vs Tige. They are all different enough to have different HP ratings and part numbers.

NCSUmoomba
06-21-2010, 06:59 PM
I think the spread goes like this:

Indmar - MC, SC, Malibu
PCM - Nautique, Tige (used to use Mercuiser)
Centurion - Mercruiser (I think)

And yes, as already stated the are all GM blocks. Also, the different Manufacturers have different names for them, "Assault" "MCX" "Hammerhead" etc. but I think sometimes the same engine will be sold to different manufacturers with just different names or graphics on them.

Davpmars
06-21-2010, 07:03 PM
I am a chevy guy so i have a lot of confidence in the chevy engine and in my skills on working on chevy engines. It makes me feel comfortable knowing that most boats have chevy "guts" in them however with all the other differences is there a way to say which manufacturer is the most reliable?

I know I might get various answers here but I guess how Toyota and Honda have set the bar for reliability is there a comparible Maker in the boat industry. Opinions are welcome.

james yarosz
06-21-2010, 08:26 PM
My last inboard had a Ford 351w engine.Ran great. Ford went to the modular engine in 1997.The engine is so wide because of the overhead cams no one has made marine exhaust manifolds for them since the engine would be wider than the chevy.

dru1974
06-21-2010, 09:33 PM
I now have a 2010 indmar and like it, I had the old 351w in my old boats and they were cpm, rock solid, saying that I very honestly think all manufacturers are equally good.

maxpower220
06-21-2010, 09:47 PM
I know I might get various answers here but I guess how Toyota and Honda have set the bar for reliability is there a comparible Maker in the boat industry. Opinions are welcome.

Do you mean like runaway throttles and faulty brakes reliable???? Sorry, but in the 80s and 90s the Japanese did set a standard. They have since rested on that status while domestics have matched and surpassed them. I'm done equalizing. I feel very confident that you can go purchase any new vehicle sold in America and feel assured that it will last well over 120K miles. That could not be said in the 80s and 90s. Every car maker is improving, and the consumer is the one winning.

http://www.waterskis.com/Competition-s/173.htm

This attachment has some very valid points, regardless of which boat maker you prefer. It is a good reference when shopping for your next boat. This isn't a plug for MC, but I never really thought to ask why one equally sized boat would weigh more than another.

Salyers
06-21-2010, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=maxpower220;103558]Do you mean like runaway throttles and faulty brakes reliable???? Sorry, but in the 80s and 90s the Japanese did set a standard.

Most all of those clams proved unfounded and independent studies were unable to prove the runaway throttles. Plus I don't think the car makers should be punished for stupid people that can't even think to turn the car off or shift into neutral. Easy fix to stopping a car. I mean what Idiots!!!! Don't believe everything you hear in the media! And I want 200K+ miles out of my cars. 120k is not that much.

Personally if Honda or Toyota came out with a boat engine I would switch to that without hesitation. But that comes from someone who as never owned a Ford or GM powered viehicle except for my Moomba that I am very happy with!

Hoopskier
06-22-2010, 12:02 AM
Personally if Honda or Toyota came out with a boat engine I would switch to that without hesitation. But that comes from someone who as never owned a Ford or GM powered viehicle except for my Moomba that I am very happy with!

If you want a Toyota boat/Toyota powered here you go. Just check out the link. http://www.epicmarine.com Although Toyata longer is in the marine industy. Glad you went with Moomba though.

MartinCaron
06-22-2010, 12:56 PM
My friend's Sanger, SVFara and Supreme has a Black Scorpion engines. Those engines are pure beauty. Are they reliable ? Not sure, i remember seeing a lot of ratchet arround the engine bay. All mercruiser power plan i think.

dru1974
06-22-2010, 03:02 PM
All New Engines Weather Merc, Pcm Or Indmar Are 350 Vortec Blocks.....period!!!!!!

K_E_N
06-22-2010, 05:15 PM
All New Engines Weather Merc, Pcm Or Indmar Are 350 Vortec Blocks.....period!!!!!!

Except for the new engines that aren't 350 Vortec Blocks, such as the 6.0L that's based on GM's newer, more modern Gen IV Vortec 6000.......period!!!!!!

maxpower220
06-22-2010, 05:39 PM
You should really take a look at the Mercruiser engine. The impeller system that they use (unless they changed recently) it much more difficult to change than Indmar/PCM. After owning one (Mercruiser inboard), I must prefer Indmar. Indmar is easier to do routine maintenance on.

Toyota has been making a marine motor for several years. Since no one has heard of it, there may be a reason. It is a little down on HP and TQ compared to the GM block. Since GM has the market covered, parts are cheap, and most mechanics know small block Chevy, it is difficult for Toyota to enter the market and gain a share with huge corperate backing (see NASCAR and forget F1).

There are several versions of the GM block out there for boats. Most of us have a Gen IV 5.7L engine. There are also 6.0L and 8.1L available on many boats. For the extreme, there is the LS7
http://indmar.com/ProductLine/Indmar/6.0L/index.html

For my comment on cars lasting 120K: That covers every car sold in the U.S. Not really sure that I would count on the Kia/Hyundia/Suzukis of the $10K car to last a lot longer. Since my last 2, problem free, domestic trucks lasted me well into the 100K+, I have no doubt that my Avy will last more than 150K without any issues.

dru1974
06-23-2010, 09:07 AM
Ok all are vortech in the ski industry and especialy the 350. Better?

Davpmars
06-23-2010, 10:28 AM
Thanks for all your input guys. I'm pretty comfortable working on Chevy engines and I also know the reliability of the Chevy small block (and the power for that matter) -

My brother-in-law has a Moomba Outback LS and my friend has a Tige RZ2. The Moomba has a much better pull and plains out much faster. I guess I'll rule out the engine as to why this happens and put more emphasis on the size of the boat and the location of the engine in the boat.

phospher
06-23-2010, 10:58 AM
IMO, todays marine engines all seem to be pretty good and are all comparable. I have a 1982 American Skier with a Ford 351W and a Holley 4 barrel. She's still original, has almost 1k hours on her and she still runs strong and doesn't use any oil.

Ian Brantford
06-23-2010, 11:38 AM
My brother-in-law has a Moomba Outback LS and my friend has a Tige RZ2. The Moomba has a much better pull and plains out much faster. I guess I'll rule out the engine as to why this happens and put more emphasis on the size of the boat and the location of the engine in the boat.

The propeller can make a very large difference too.

sandm
06-23-2010, 12:50 PM
what about mastercraft using vw diesel engines in some of their bigger wakeboats? tons of down-low torque and you really don't need an engine to rev to 6k to board or surf..

there's a guy up north of me that has had a toyota boat(prior to epic) for sale for a year or so. I believe it has the same v8 that they put in the lexus cars/suv's. probably a very reliable motor, but parts/servicability would be a big concern in my mind..

viking
06-23-2010, 12:50 PM
I have a 1982 American Skier with a Ford 351W and a Holley 4 barrel. She's still original, has almost 1k hours on her and she still runs strong and doesn't use any oil.

Why don't u post some pics of that beauty? :)

phospher
06-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Why don't u post some pics of that beauty? :)

I just posted a few in my profile album. I only had a few on hand. I need to get my Moomba on there next!