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patrick232
07-12-2010, 01:02 PM
Has any one had an issue with their roller and winch? Some of the ramps we use you can't get the boat tight to the roller so in the past we just tap the brakes to get it to slide forward the 2 or 3 inches then retighten the winch and tie downs. This was worked great for me for the past 10 plus years of boating until yesterday.

The boat pushed the roller to the left, tore the winch and damaged my gel coat. It moved a total of about a foot until the safety chain and tie downs stopped it.

I have never been a fan of the thin metal bracket holding the roller, out of the 4 boats currently in my building they all have the rollers mounted to 1/4" steel that is bolted or welded to the upright.

I have sent pictures to Boatmate, not sure what they will do since I'm not the orginal owner. So any ideas or just head to a machine shop.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs065.snc4/34604_1368505617421_1375123978_30949358_2451527_n. jpg

What would have happen if this would have been a panic stop in the freeway?

Razzman
07-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Well i hate to say this but that's your bad on that one, not any fault of the trailer. Tapping the brakes and forcing a 3,000 lb plus boat to slide forward takes a lot of force and no trailer is designed to be loaded that way. The design works just fine as long as you load properly. As for repair i'd take it to a trailer repair not a machine shop.

patrick232
07-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Well i hate to say this but that's your bad on that one, not any fault of the trailer. Tapping the brakes and forcing a 3,000 lb plus boat to slide forward takes a lot of force and no trailer is designed to be loaded that way. The design works just fine as long as you load properly. As for repair i'd take it to a trailer repair not a machine shop.

Razz, so you are saying that tapping the brakes is a bad idea, so what happens in a panic stop and you slam on the brakes? Kiss the boat good by? When we tap the brakes it's from less that 5 mph - walking speed.

Why to a trailer repair shop will they have a differnet idea? This is my idea have 2 plates made from 1/4" steel and bolt to either side of the upright and remove what is currently there holding the roller.

Razzman
07-12-2010, 02:30 PM
Hitting the brakes to slide the boat forward when the boat is not against the stop is definately a bad idea. It's pure physics, think about it, the boats weight weight is increased by inertia and it moves forward until it contacts the roller with more force than the design was intended. When you hit the brakes at any speed and the boat is properly secured as intended there's no issue as the design is holding the boat and the boats weight is not increased.

I have had to panic stop mine a few times due to idiots on the roads and it holds just fine. Boatmate has been making this design for many years now along with other boat mfgrs.

you da man
07-12-2010, 02:31 PM
I just don't understand how a ramp does not allow you to snug the bow up to the roller. If the ramp is very shallow in angle you just need to back it down further. I don't think Boatmate would warranty this anyways even if was under warranty because you didn't load the boat in a "normal" manner. I've never heard of anyone needing to do this.

maxpower220
07-12-2010, 02:42 PM
The trailer is designed to have the boat positioned against that roller. You must adjust the trailer depth (it may take a few repostions) to get the boat resting there. Then cinch down the strap. Tapping the brakes to move your boat on a trailer is a very bad idea. I recommend the Boat Buddy. It is a spring loaded locking pin that automatically locks your boat in when you get the boat fully on the trailer.

Once the boat is on your trailer properly, there will be no movement of the boat on the trailer if you have to emergency stop. Believe me, a boat that is properly on the trailer with a strap up front and 2 on the transom will not move when you have a problem. The axle on my trailer snapped on the interstate at 70mph and it survived fine.

I would find a trailer repair shop and have the damage fix. There is no need to re-design that bracket.

patrick232
07-12-2010, 02:53 PM
I might not have not written it properly the boat was in contact with the roller the eye hook was a couple of inches from the roller.
FYI I'm not the only one with this issue there have been others at from my dealer and on the supra forum.

you da man
07-12-2010, 02:59 PM
I might not have not written it properly the boat was in contact with the roller the eye hook was a couple of inches from the roller.
FYI I'm not the only one with this issue there have been others at from my dealer and on the supra forum.

Two solutions to that problem of snugging the hook to the roller. Either back the trailer down a little more to make it easier to crank it snug or once youre in line and have contacted the roller, slowly throttle up. My skinny a$$ can crank my XLV snug with a few people in the boat still

Razzman
07-12-2010, 03:46 PM
The eye hook a couple inches from the roller has the same effect, the boat will move forward on momentum increasing the weight.

Razzman
07-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Also multiple times of doing so may have weakened the supports as well.

Ian Brantford
07-12-2010, 07:09 PM
The eye hook a couple inches from the roller has the same effect, the boat will move forward on momentum increasing the weight.

Yep. That couple of inches of play could spell the difference between a 3000 lb shove and a 3000 lb hammer blow.

Hoopskier
07-12-2010, 10:13 PM
I would have to say operator error in this case. Although I haven't reviewed the owners manual for a trailer, I couldn't see it saying...Just tap the brakes on tow vehicle to move boat on trailer to correct positioning. I have heard of other people doing the same and bad things happen; like damaged boat, damaged trailer, or worst when that trailer and tow vehilce become seperated from doing stuff like that. Nothing like a trailer tongue going through a tailgate.

I cant blame the steel. I dont believe the steel that holds the bunks are much thicker, if any. As mentioned its physics and mass. Thats why there are bow stops and tie down points, to prevent any movement. Bow stop more intended to hold/prevent not withstand a straight forward running start.

Shouldn't be too bad to get the trailer fixed. Might want to replace the winch strap too since it appears to have torn at one point and tied back together.

patrick232
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
The strap broke at the time of the flexing of the steel. I will be working on a design today that will replace the current bent steel with new 1/4" plates. We looked at 3 different moomba trailers last night and they all have the metal bent to some extent and the rollers don't roll easily. With the roller not rolling very well this might be once of the reasons the boat is hard to crank.

phospher
07-13-2010, 10:34 AM
Not sure I understand either. Why not just back your trailer a little bit further in the water? I think this is one of the main mistakes people make when loading their boats. They would rather rev the sh*t out of their engines, stir up the docks and ruin the launch when all their lazy a$$e$ need to do is pull a little deeper in the water. Have I mentioned how much I hate power loading? And to think that you are actually hitting the brakes to slide the boat on the trailer???

jimmobius
07-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Every now and then with my old boat it would not track straight on the trailer. I was having some one back in the trailer for me and then I would load the boat. The boat would set kind of off center to the bunks a bit . I left the rear straps slightly loose and as I drove home I had rail road tracks to cross and the city street had some bumps in it and it still does to this day. When I got home the boat was centered back on the trailer .Sometimes I don't get the moomba all the way to the bow stop too . If I am not traveling too far, I just leave it alone. If I am going on a trip I will use another strap to hold the bow down till I get to the next lake.
Jim.

kaneboats
07-13-2010, 11:49 AM
I always use a separate tie down on the bow. The winch will keep it from sliding back, but will not necessarily hold it down to the trailer. I definitely recommend 3 tie downs.

kaneboats
07-14-2010, 03:08 AM
I love how a guy who has never seen another guy's ramp or rig is going to tell him how to load his boat. I can't winch my boat onto the trailer. I can't back in any deeper than I do with my truck or I'll never get it out. I power load every time-- very carefully (actually, my daughter drives the boat on and runs it up to the roller. I do wet the bunks and quickly pull the truck forward to where the exhaust is out of the water. If you are careful you can slide up to the roller and get off the gas without hurting anything. I don't really know why you'd have to use the brakes on the truck to move it forward. I'd be tempted to park on a down hill slope and use the winch, I guess.

patrick232
07-14-2010, 08:59 AM
I love how a guy who has never seen another guy's ramp or rig is going to tell him how to load his boat. I can't winch my boat onto the trailer. I can't back in any deeper than I do with my truck or I'll never get it out. I power load every time-- very carefully (actually, my daughter drives the boat on and runs it up to the roller. I do wet the bunks and quickly pull the truck forward to where the exhaust is out of the water. If you are careful you can slide up to the roller and get off the gas without hurting anything. I don't really know why you'd have to use the brakes on the truck to move it forward. I'd be tempted to park on a down hill slope and use the winch, I guess.

In Ohio there is no hills, but your idea does work for me in TN.

gus 08 mobius lsv
07-14-2010, 12:47 PM
In Ohio there is no hills, but your idea does work for me in TN.

don't say in ohio there are no hills maybe around your theres none but i live 2 hours away and we have our fair share of steep ass hills!!

patrick232
07-14-2010, 05:57 PM
don't say in ohio there are no hills maybe around your theres none but i live 2 hours away and we have our fair share of steep ass hills!!

I know there are hill in Ohio, just not in Columbus.

kaneboats
07-15-2010, 11:18 AM
I wasn't picking on you specifically. But, ramp conditions vary considerably as do tow vehicles and boats for that matter. On my ramp I can't get as deep as I'd like to so I have to "power unload" and power load. Under perfect conditions you can back in deep enough to just float the boat on and winch up to the stop. The biggest issue is centering the boat as you pull the trailer out of the water. Many of us don't have such conditions. See Moombadaze's pics of the front wheels of the truck 15 feet from shore for example. Still, I agree that slamming on the truck brakes to slide the boat forward is not the best way to go. How about having a few buddies push on the stern and winch it forward?

jester
07-15-2010, 10:53 PM
This doesn't work on my ramps, its back the boat in till the ass end floats, for launching. Even then you have to power off a little.

Loading i have to back it down till my fenders are about 4inches under water and then i drive the boat onto the trailer, when its about 2 feet away from the winch i hook it and using just enough power on the engine i winch it up at the same time. This was the boat never Slams into the roller.

Pros = No damage to boat and trailer
Easy loading that you can see when to tell your driver to kill the engine.
No chance of gell coat damage.

Cons = takes 2 people
Takes a little longer to load the boat


It is all about knowing your boat, ramp, weight onboard and weather. At the ramp i go too all the time i have a sweet spot. I can get the boat on the trailer so the eye is about an inch from hitting the rollers. I just have to give once around the crank and i am good to go. If there is more wind or more weight in the boat I will leave more room between the eye and the roller. Each ramp has a differnt grade too it and that grade will change how deep you need the trailer in the water.

There was a time that i had to kick everyone out of the boat and get as much gear out of the boat and crank the whole length of the trailer.

Razzman
07-15-2010, 11:49 PM
My ramps are so steep i have no choice but to float on. I slowly idle on and cut power as i cross the rear of the trailer and the wife guides the nose up and clips the strap on and winches her in. No smacks or bumps and no damage to the bunks or boat.

kaneboats
07-16-2010, 11:22 AM
how ever you unload is the way you have to load.

I see what you mean. If you got it unloaded you will have to reverse the process to get it loaded-- unless you are able to back in deeper which isn't always an option. If you got it off there you ought to be able to get it back on. I splash water on the bunks with my hands when I'm not able to get the trailer deep enough to wet the front ones.

patrick232
07-16-2010, 11:40 AM
Trailer is fixed, will know tonight when I pull the boat to confirm it works. I added a extra tie down point and will post pictures with the boat on later this weekend. Thanks for your help. Also some of you I agree with and well others just don't know how you can hit the roller perfect everytime at every ramp. I must need more time on the water.

kaneboats
07-16-2010, 11:53 AM
My 16 year old daughter drives up to the roller. I stand by the winch and "help" if she stops close and needs to nudge the last foot or two. I give a signal to get off the gas when she's on the roller.

This reminded me of a post earlier this year. A guy- can't remember who -- has a shiny black truck and watches the reflection off the tailgate. You might consider a similar idea so your driver can see the roller. Good luck! Glad to hear it's fixed.