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zegm
08-06-2010, 10:48 AM
I heard it coming and it is true, there is no more LS! :-(
I guess when we decided to get a new boat (and it will be a long time before that happens) we will have to look for a MasterCraft X-14. Sorry Jody (local inboard dealer and seller of Ski Natique) we are MasterCraft people, sort of like the Chevy vs. Ford thing here.
I want to thank Atlanta Marine for having an LS for us to look at on their lot. Had we not actually ever seen that boat I doubt that we would have ever considered purchasing it as we were about to get an Outback V. I think the biggest reason this boat didn't sell was because only a very few dealers ever stocked one so people really didn't see how much room this boat actually has, much less get a chance to test drive one.

sandm
08-06-2010, 11:38 AM
have seen one. not on the lot but on the road..

I certainly can understand the decision to axe one of their direct drive boats, as that seems to be a market that is dying. one in the lineup is probably more than sufficient and betting if you look at the overall percentage of dd sales in skiers lineup, it makes sense.. probably also a good decision to keep the one direct drive that is able to fit on length-restricted waterways.

still sucks as it's nice to have choices, like you stated with the roominess of the larger platform, but hard times require hard choices..

moombadaze
08-06-2010, 11:47 AM
only seen one LS--yours :D

kaneboats
08-06-2010, 12:13 PM
It's gone for one reason-- nobody bought them. Skiers want a smaller hull, not a bigger one. Boarders want to be able to add ballast without tripping over it all day. It was a neat idea but the market for it just isn't there.

zabooda
08-06-2010, 12:27 PM
DD's were meant to be water ski boats so I would think they would eliminate the heavier boat. By keeping the Mobius and not the lighter LS, Moomba is basically getting out of the water ski boat business. Even the LS is too heavy for my liking but I see my favorite the MC Prostar 190 is only 120 lbs less than the LS and doesn't have an open bow either. I would never think of the Mobius LS as a water ski boat at another 500 lbs. it would be like my boat pulling skiers with ballast bags filled.

zegm
08-06-2010, 01:17 PM
DD's were meant to be water ski boats so I would think they would eliminate the heavier boat. By keeping the Mobius and not the lighter LS, Moomba is basically getting out of the water ski boat business. Even the LS is too heavy for my liking but I see my favorite the MC Prostar 190 is only 120 lbs less than the LS and doesn't have an open bow either. I would never think of the Mobius LS as a water ski boat at another 500 lbs. it would be like my boat pulling skiers with ballast bags filled.

Not quite as you do have more surface area to support that extra 500lbs. No our wake is not as good on the course as our old MasterCraft but I couldn't surf behind it either.
We thought of buying the Outback but with our 2 kids and their friends we liked the idea of having a roomier ski boat. But you are correct, Moomba is getting out of the water ski business. So in the future we have 2 options if we need to replace this boat. Buy an Outback for the course and a MC X-14 for all the other things we like to do. :)

zegm
08-06-2010, 01:22 PM
It's gone for one reason-- nobody bought them. Skiers want a smaller hull, not a bigger one. Boarders want to be able to add ballast without tripping over it all day. It was a neat idea but the market for it just isn't there.

Not sure I agree because I can go and buy a boat just like it today at a MasterCraft dealer (X-14). Basically if you have a product but you don't advertise it and nobody knows of it then why would anyone buy one. I have heard on here several times that the dealers never had one in the lots so how do you sell a car that you don't have? Again I would not have bought one but Atlanta Marine did have one. We were pretty set on the Outback V but after looking at the LS we changed our minds and did it pretty quick. It also had a very good selling point, you got the room and you got the crossover features at about 4k less than the LSV. That too would have helped sell them if they were on the lots when people were looking at the price tags. When we bought ours it was almost the same price as the Outback V but you got much more boat.

Kidder
08-06-2010, 01:47 PM
We love our 08 LS. What a great crossover boat, IMO.

skiyaker
08-06-2010, 01:54 PM
Zegm your point is well taken. I think a year and a half ago I was the type of buyer you're talking about. Came from and I/O family and basically the big decision was whether to get an I/O like a tahoe from Bass Pro or change to an inboard. I has skied recreationally and never attempted wakeboarding and thought I would be doing mostly family boating. An LS never occurred to us because- as you said- the dealer didn't have any and plus the layout of the V drive seemed better. It didn't hurt that I found a OBV holdover for a good price. Now that I'm skiing a lot more and trying to work on technique and the course I see your point that the LS would fit my needs well- except as I wrote before I have wife that says "yeah but that boat has an engine right in the middle" and if she saw one maybe it would be apparent that it's not so bad gathering around your indmar friend.

zegm
08-06-2010, 02:11 PM
Probably one of the best selling point for us was how deep the bow section is on the LSV/LS hull. I thought the salesman was going to dump my kids in the lake when he cranked the wheel over hard at 40mph during a test drive in an 2007 Outback V. Besides while being another seat while under way the engine being in the middle greatly helps the kids putting the rope on the tower and checking on what is on the Z5. :p

I have sat here thinking about my lake in my area of the world (Deer Point Lake, Panama City, FL). We have 3 slalom courses on our little lake. I sat here and have taken inventory of the inboards I see all the time on the lake and realized that there are:
4 MasterCraft DDs (one is an pretty yellow X boat)
1 Centurian DD
2 Outback DDs
1 LS DD (ours)
2 Ski Natique DDs
This is not counting the DD's that Jody at Florida Inboards is working on at his shop, and not sure I ever saw a VD there either.
Of Course MaxPower has a DD a couple hours away too!
and get this!!!! The only VD was an Outback V and we haven't seen him in the last couple of years. The few wakeboarders we see are all behind Outboards or I/O's.
I guess Deerpoint Lake is a DD Lake, so to say skiing is dead is not really true where we live!
Go Skiboats (ie DD) Go!!! :D

bjames
08-06-2010, 02:12 PM
I have to say that as much as I like my LSV - mostly for wake performance - as I do alot of surfing, I love the interior of the direct drive boats. The interior seems enormous as everything is more spread out. Also with the motor hump located in the middle, I find there is less chance in wacking your head on an overhead speaker - as you can position them over the engine compartment. Also the engine compartment makes for a great ottaman:D If I can find a DD with the same wake performace as my LSV, I would consider looking at one.

zabooda
08-06-2010, 02:28 PM
I see where Moomba would reduce the models as car companies have been doing that the last couple of years too but I would pick the LS over the Mobius LS for a couple of reasons: 1. It is a lighter boat = better ski boat, 2. I would think the price would be less so they could sell to a bigger market for those who are strapped for money.

I wouldn't look at the number of sales the past two years as dealers have limited their stock to boats that they know will move quickly so the DDs are probably non-existent on the show room floor.

zegm
08-06-2010, 02:41 PM
I see where Moomba would reduce the models as car companies have been doing that the last couple of years too but I would pick the LS over the Mobius LS for a couple of reasons: 1. It is a lighter boat = better ski boat, 2. I would think the price would be less so they could sell to a bigger market for those who are strapped for money.

I wouldn't look at the number of sales the past two years as dealers have limited their stock to boats that they know will move quickly so the DDs are probably non-existent on the show room floor.

You might be on to something here, Just sell the LS and not the Mobius LS and if you want the tower and the ballast offer them as options.

dru1974
08-06-2010, 02:47 PM
I just got my LS IN THE SPRING AND FOR THE FIRST BIT i THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A OUTACK BECOUSE I GREW UP WITH THREE EVENT BOATS BUT I HAVE REALLY GROWN TOO LOVE MY BOAT FOR THE SIZE AND THE ADDAPTABILITY. IT TRUELY IS AN AMAZING CROSSOVER BOAT AND SO VERY ROOMY. I THINK IT MAY BE A MISTAKE, MAYBE THEY SHOULD MAKE A CROSSOVER SPECIFIC BOAT......
JUST MY .02

SEARK
08-06-2010, 02:50 PM
I wanted a DD boat when I bought my LS. Never even gave a VD much thought. I grew up wanting a prostar so the DD is what I had my mind set on. After 4 summers with it I'm still not sure about the VD. I have a friend with a LSV and we are in and out of each others boat all the time. We both like things about each others boats. I can put just as many people in my LS as he can the LSV and with a boat load of people the wake is going to be big in either one of them. I can surf just as easily behind my LS as his LSV. With the LSV loaded with people, say 8 or more, they tend to fall over each other while with the LS it kinda forces you to go around the motor and doesn't seem as crowded. I do like being able to sit in the back and put my feet up too. :) If I had it to do again I'm not 100% sure that I would choose the LSV over the LS, but that's not really an option anymore now is it. I do know that the size of the LS is what sold me over buying an Outback. The Outback just seemed to small and now that I've had a chance to look at them again after buying the LS I'm positive I made the right decision.

dru1974
08-06-2010, 03:01 PM
how big is the difference between the ls and lsv wake with and without full factory ballasts, i havent been on or behind a lsv, i was out on y cousins dd calbria and hitting his wake on my board is like running into a curb and with my wake plate all the way up my wake is so sweet, nice and rampy with a good lip on the end at 19.5mph and 65 feet of rope. I LOVE MY MOOMBA.

deepcove
08-06-2010, 04:26 PM
I love my 2004 Mobius LS. Just rolled 800 hrs!!!!

Kidder
08-06-2010, 05:58 PM
I would've had a tough decision to make if the 09 OBV would've been available in 08. I really like the new OBVs. I think they're a great crossover boat. G3 plus wakeplate and you'd be in business.

SEARK
08-06-2010, 08:28 PM
how big is the difference between the ls and lsv wake with and without full factory ballasts, i havent been on or behind a lsv, i was out on y cousins dd calbria and hitting his wake on my board is like running into a curb and with my wake plate all the way up my wake is so sweet, nice and rampy with a good lip on the end at 19.5mph and 65 feet of rope. I LOVE MY MOOMBA.

With the empty ballast there is not much difference in wake. The LSV is larger just because of the motor location difference. Both boats have GIII and there is quite a bit of difference in the wake. Can get good lift off both but the LSV is bigger. We tend to spend more time surfing than wakeboarding these days. There is not enough difference for me to make me want the LSV. If I was a much better wakeboarder it probably would. Now, when it comes to skiing the LS has a much smaller wake at 30+ mph and would prefer to be behind the LS. Don't run a course just open water.
Not real sure I answered your question though.

Kidder
08-06-2010, 10:07 PM
With the empty ballast there is not much difference in wake. The LSV is larger just because of the motor location difference. Both boats have GIII and there is quite a bit of difference in the wake. Can get good lift off both but the LSV is bigger. We tend to spend more time surfing than wakeboarding these days. There is not enough difference for me to make me want the LSV. If I was a much better wakeboarder it probably would. Now, when it comes to skiing the LS has a much smaller wake at 30+ mph and would prefer to be behind the LS. Don't run a course just open water.
Not real sure I answered your question though.

GIII is not standard. My 08 LS only has G1, no wakeplate.

Mikey
08-06-2010, 11:16 PM
As a skier first a DD was and still is first and foremost.DD's still are the better SKI boats.
As we moved up from a closed bow 16 1/2 foot OB boat moving into a 20ft Moomba Outback DD room was not an issue as we are more than pleased with the amount of room we had.
I did have a chance to see a LS before we bought ,which at the time was equal in size to the MC209 which a friend of mine had which is now a MC214 but for comparrison sake the same boat. This is and or was a very skiable boat,still much moreso than MOST VD's.
The New Outback Was not out then so i still can't say.
This is /was the Crossover boat in my opinion of choice,and as mentioned very roomy.
I for one am dissapointed that the LS is no more because if i was to ever change to another boat ,it was VERY High on my list of boats to have.Due to this ,i would probably switch brands if the need ever arose as i'm still a fan of DD's and for what they lack in Surfability mostly, as most do decently for wakeboarding and skiing really is still second to none.
A couple of years ago,while talking to our past local dealer after there big Moomba meeting,he told me Supra was actually looking at bringing a DD back into there lineup,which we all know never materialized,mostly due to the economy i'm sure.
Skiers are a dying breed but we are PROUD,so i say lets rally the troops and let Moomba hear our dissapointment,probably to no availe,but just the same . Too bad , The LS is and or was a very decent boat.
Advertiseing i believe is /was a very big part of why the model died.
Yes EVERYBODY and there dog wants a VDRIVE but a few of us still want SKI BOATS.
IF OUTBOARDS weren't in the same fate that would've been another option. Ther were some very good OUTBOARD skiboats in the day. RANT OVER!! Goodbye LS.

zegm
08-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Truth be told - the 09 OBV IS the best cross over boat.

Those who disagree haven't given it an honest trial.

To make a statement like that it should come from someone who has owned or spent a great deal of time in both a LS and a OBV or you are not really qualified. I will say now that until I ski behind an OBV I will not be able to compare the wake, and to be honest I too will stand on my side of the fence and always doubt any ski wake from a VD. And certain variables like room and storage and availability of Z5 racks would also have to be considered.
But that is not the reason for this thread, we have beat this issue into the dirt in the past and made mud pies. :)

BensonWdby
08-07-2010, 10:52 AM
My response to your wife - YEAH - that boat has the motor right in the middle - ain't that great....

skiyaker
08-07-2010, 01:13 PM
But that is not the reason for this thread, we have beat this issue into the dirt in the past and made mud pies. :)

yeah the real issue here is that the LS is soon to be gone and that leaves moomba owners with fewer choices and that's too bad 'cause who knows that might have been my next boat. Makes me wonder if the outback is next... at some point they'll have to change the name from skiers choice to riders choice

zabooda
08-07-2010, 02:21 PM
The DD has to stay if Moomba expects to be competitive. Moomba needs to factor in the intangibles when they sell a boat such as the free advertising, word of mouth and the fact as we see here when people sell and buy another Moomba.

I just got off the water from a morning ski run and I'll do the same tomorrow. Tomorrow I will take my DD Moomba and today we took my buddy's MC Prostar 190. I love that boat...just for skiing. It has the sweetest wake which makes a difference when I am going 35mph at 22' off. I getting to the age where banging around doesn't work well with my herniated discs. The MC closed bow and barely enough room for three people doesn't hack it for the rest of the boating I do.

At 250 pounds, I go full throttle out of the water with my DD and I doubt a V drive could get me out and if it did I would be dragging more than I would like.

dru1974
08-07-2010, 02:32 PM
yeah the real issue here is that the LS is soon to be gone and that leaves moomba owners with fewer choices and that's too bad 'cause who knows that might have been my next boat. Makes me wonder if the outback is next... at some point they'll have to change the name from skiers choice to riders choice

Lmao that's funny

viking
08-07-2010, 04:03 PM
yeah the real issue here is that the LS is soon to be gone and that leaves moomba owners with fewer choices and that's too bad 'cause who knows that might have been my next boat. Makes me wonder if the outback is next... at some point they'll have to change the name from skiers choice to riders choice


There will always be a market for ski boats. Don't think the outback will be thrown by the wayside anytime soon.

zegm
08-07-2010, 10:35 PM
There will always be a market for ski boats. Don't think the outback will be thrown by the wayside anytime soon.

I agree they will not quit selling the Outback. But right now if I was in the market for a new boat to replace the LS I would being going to see a MasterCraft dealer to look at an X-14.

It seems like SC has given up on their core values and right now they should change the name because there is no choice anymore for a ski boat. You get an Outback which is a good boat but too little for my needs/likes or choose another brand.

Now if this type of boat isn't selling well why can I go on the MasterCraft site and get a boat with almost the exact same specs as the LS? I was actually shocked at the amount and variation of boats MC sells! They have everyone covered!

I may never know the reason they really decided to stop selling the LS. The running gear is the same as the Outback and the Hull is the same as the LSV so there are little to no special parts that would have to be stocked for this hull design. And if production is down for all boats then anything you can build and sell is a plus as it keeps employees at work and some cash flowing.

How does this sound....... Surfers Choice! That way they wouldn't have to change the letters! :)


Did I mention how pretty the Yellow MasterCraft X boat is we see every weekend? :)

KurtL
08-09-2010, 01:45 AM
Zegm sorry to hear the news. The LS with wakeplate and ballast is/was the best crossover at the best price in the market.

What a great family boat, higher sidewalls (don't worry about smaller kids falling out), tons of room, good storage, great skiing wake with plate, nice surf, board wake with ballast. Guess I'll just have to rebuild it in 10 years.

kaneboats
08-09-2010, 11:23 AM
At 250 pounds, I go full throttle out of the water with my DD and I doubt a V drive could get me out and if it did I would be dragging more than I would like.

All right, let's not pretend that a v-drive has less power. The ski wake is one thing but you can get up behind a 65 hp outboard.

zegm
08-09-2010, 12:41 PM
All right, let's not pretend that a v-drive has less power. The ski wake is one thing but you can get up behind a 65 hp outboard.

Your right! If the DD makes 325hp at the prop then the VD will make 276 at the prop due to your normal transmission losses of 15% so yeah you should easily be able to get up behind a LSV! :p

zegm
08-09-2010, 12:45 PM
Yellow is a cool color.

You'd look good in it!

You know it is a sharp looking boat! You can see it for miles before it gets close but yellow is not one of my colors. Now if someone was to give me one I wouldn't say no. Ever see a yellow Ferrari? Again sharp but Ferrraris are supposed to be red! :)

moombabound
08-10-2010, 04:00 PM
Zegm, the good news is that you HAVE an LS. Take care of that baby!
To further support the dealer comments put forth here, I don't recall hearing a boo about an LS initially. I was having great difficulty deciding on DD vs VD. Went VD. After I got on this forum and read all about the x-over virtues of the LS (mostly from you), I thought whoops, made a mistake.

I don't know the sales #'s, but suspect there will remain a strong enough market for a budget DD that the OBDD will stay alive. Go to MB Sports web site and you won't see a DD. Same with Centurion. Nor will you find a Response LX on the Malibu web site, though it can be special ordered I'm told.

The X14 is great if you return to your dock after every run. Note it doesn't have the rear storage locker like an LS. It'll also cost you alot more.

Those (boats on your lake) stats you provided are really suprising to me. Unusual concentration of ski buffs and not indicative of an average lake I doubt. Take my lake as another example. Only one DD on the entire lake! An MB Sports Boss 210, owned by a ski nut I know. Conversely, about ten Vdrives, with plenty more on the way I'm sure.

(How about that new Nautique Sport 200. V-drive based on a DD hull, with optional forward mounted ski pylon. Oh, my. C'mon SC!).

zegm
08-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Zegm, the good news is that you HAVE an LS. Take care of that baby!
To further support the dealer comments put forth here, I don't recall hearing a boo about an LS initially. I was having great difficulty deciding on DD vs VD. Went VD. After I got on this forum and read all about the x-over virtues of the LS (mostly from you), I thought whoops, made a mistake.

I don't know the sales #'s, but suspect there will remain a strong enough market for a budget DD that the OBDD will stay alive. Go to MB Sports web site and you won't see a DD. Same with Centurion. Nor will you find a Response LX on the Malibu web site, though it can be special ordered I'm told.

The X14 is great if you return to your dock after every run. Note it doesn't have the rear storage locker like an LS. It'll also cost you alot more.

Those (boats on your lake) stats you provided are really suprising to me. Unusual concentration of ski buffs and not indicative of an average lake I doubt. Take my lake as another example. Only one DD on the entire lake! An MB Sports Boss 210, owned by a ski nut I know. Conversely, about ten Vdrives, with plenty more on the way I'm sure.

(How about that new Nautique Sport 200. V-drive based on a DD hull, with optional forward mounted ski pylon. Oh, my. C'mon SC!).

Yes it is strange that we have so many DD, but we have a large group of competitive slalom skiers in this area. Cory Pickos has a ski school not far from here and Jody the owner of Florida Inboards has 2 kids that are nationally ranked skiers. Well I should say they do the Tricks, Jump and Slalom events. I think that most die hards like me believe a skiboat is a DD. And I also believe that most people moving up from I/Os percieve that the VD actually looks more like a normal pleasure boat and is not as specialized as a DD. So when companies like Moomba offer a good value on their boats you see people with I/O and Outboards moving up to what they percieve as another pleasure boat, but one that allows them to have the option to play with the ballast and not some boat that has the engine in the middle and they don't even know why it is there. I am not sure that some I/O could not or are not also pretty good wakeboard boats. You just wouldn't want to surf behind one. But when Moomba decides that it is going to concentrate on VD's for the most part then I have to think that a company like MC still believes in the "old fashioned" slalom skier so even if the numbers of DD sold is small they stick to what got them there. We (wife and I) feel that SC is trying to follow the market as just a boat company and will build what sells best. I can't fault any company for that but it makes me realize that they are NOT about the sport but about the dollar. Another one of my favorite companies has also abandoned me, Cannondale bikes! I just bought the last bike of a run made in the USA. If you want to purchase one in the near future they will be coming from Asia. Again, another company about the dollar. Don't believe the bikes will be cheaper either, they will just make more profit. And like Moomba, I have bought my last Cannondale!

Jon J
08-13-2010, 02:37 PM
I love my 07' Mobius LS and plan to run it at least a few more years before even considering upgrading. Unfortunatley I may have to talk myself into an X-14 now. I just can't imagine straying from Moomba but the Mobius LS is what brought me to the brand.

It truely is a perfect crossover for our family! Great ski wake, nice wakeboard wake, awesome surf wake (all by adjusting the ballast and wake plate), and great overall layout and value. Whatelse could a multi-sport boat owner ask for......and now it's gone.

Sad day....curious decision SC???