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View Full Version : Upgraded Orbit valves to Irritrol 700 **Results**



deafgoose
09-10-2010, 11:39 PM
http://www.petsandbeyond.ca/valve2.jpg

http://www.petsandbeyond.ca/valve3.jpg

http://www.petsandbeyond.ca/valve5.jpg

There has been lots of talk on the forum about the Irritrol 700 Series valves being a good replacement to the OEM Orbit valves. They have a much better strait through design witch should cut down on the ballast fill times significantly. I purchased 3 new valves from Sprinkler Warehouse and decided to put them to the test.

I have the stock Gravity III ballast system with Rule 2000 pump. I used a stop watch to see how long it would take to fill all 3 bags. Before I started, I made sure there was no water or air in all 3 ballast bags.

Center: 13:24
Left: 15:24
Right: 16:09

Total fill time: 16min 9sec

I also timed each bag individually.

Center: 7:01
Left: 7.17
Right: 7:54

After installing the new valves I filled all 3 bags to see how much faster the fill time would improve. I was SHOCKED by the results!!!!

Center: 13.28
Left: 14.31
Right: 16:11

Total fill time: 16min 11sec

So there is zero improvement from the upgrade. I didn't bother timing each individual bag on the new valves. :rolleyes:

jmvotto
09-10-2010, 11:44 PM
great info. I hope you can return the new irritol valves, there are kind of pricey. i think.:(

deafgoose
09-10-2010, 11:49 PM
great info. I hope you can return the new irritol valves, there are kind of pricey. i think.:(

I wont be returning them. I had to solder the original connectors onto the wires.

I have not given up on my quest to speed up my ballast fill time. I want to upgrade the intake and manifold to 1.5" and replace my Rule 2000 with a Rule 3800. That should do the trick!

viking
09-11-2010, 02:01 AM
plus it'll solve any auto-fill issues (air and water) - or so I've heard!

deafgoose
09-11-2010, 02:27 AM
plus it'll solve any auto-fill issues (air and water) - or so I've heard!

Yeah! The build quality is much higher and even though the fill times did not decrease, they are more efficient.

The valves are not the bottle neck in the system. I personally think the Rule 2000 is the bottle neck. :)

I really like the idea of upgrading my ballast fill pump but the Rule 3800 is 1.5" and the stock intake and manifold is only 1". We need to find a pump that is 1" and that is also capable of flowing 2X more water so that we don't have to upgrade the intake, shut-off valve and manifold.

jmvotto
09-11-2010, 08:26 AM
DG, some on here with the existing 3/4 valves and plumbing have just added another fill pump and an extra manifold from the other end to increase times. otherwise doing bringing twice the water from the same place but feeding it to the other end of the manifolds Or 1.5 to 1" on the whole system makes sense.

kaneboats
09-11-2010, 09:44 AM
I added a second Rule pump and built a 1" manifold out of pvc pipe so I could have water inlets at each end. I'm pretty satisfied with my system. I usually only fill the front bag for wakeboarding-- we're not that good. I leave the front full and fill the surf side 750 for surfing. It has the Irritrol valve on it and fills in about 7 min.

kaneboats
09-11-2010, 09:45 AM
I wish you would go ahead and time your bags filling individually. That will tell you if you are just not getting enough water. Sending all you have to one bag should show you reduced times-- at least in theory.

cab13367
09-11-2010, 11:30 AM
dg,

Thanks for doing the timed tests. Sorry that it did not deliver the results u were looking for.

I do agree with Kane though that u should time how long it takes to fill just one bag. It may be that it's less restrictive at higher pressures.

Al

cab13367
09-11-2010, 11:37 AM
dg,

Thanks for doing the timed tests. Sorry that it did not deliver the results u were looking for.

I do agree with Kane though that u should time how long it takes to fill just one bag. It may be that it's less restrictive at higher pressures.

Al

deafgoose
09-11-2010, 11:52 AM
I will time each individual bag today and post the results.

deafgoose
09-11-2010, 11:59 AM
I added a second Rule pump and built a 1" manifold out of pvc pipe so I could have water inlets at each end. I'm pretty satisfied with my system. I usually only fill the front bag for wakeboarding-- we're not that good. I leave the front full and fill the surf side 750 for surfing. It has the Irritrol valve on it and fills in about 7 min.

Where did you connect the power for the 2nd Rule pump?

In theory, a 2nd pump should cut my fill times in 1/2. I REALLY like that idea!

deafgoose
09-11-2010, 05:05 PM
Here are the results for the individual ballst bag fill times. The results are puzzling...

Left 6:56
Center: 6:50*
Right 6:20

you da man
09-11-2010, 05:25 PM
What size sacs do you have DG

deafgoose
09-11-2010, 06:13 PM
What size sacs do you have DG

All 3 ballast bags are the stock 400lb (70x16x10).

deafgoose
09-12-2010, 03:02 PM
at one point in my life I did a lot of sprinkler systems - irritrol valves are superior to the Orbit - Orbit makes a very "affordable" product line. I would think you made the right move to head off future headaches - ditto the pump commentary - double that up and you should be able to cut the fill times. next time I'm crawling around my boat I'll check but my fill time for the 250s in the back is less then 5 minutes - its the 400 in the middle that I need more patience for - going to integrate a bow sac over the winter and then I'll be working the pump issue then... great thread -

I agree. The build quality is much higher and now I don't need to worry about the valves anymore.

I had to take apart a couple Orbit valves a few times because the ballast bags would fill with water while underway.

It's nice to see the fill times decrease with the new valves when more water is flowing through them. That means they are an improvement when I upgrade the fill pump. I am really leaning towards upgrading to the Rule 3800 because no holes would need to be drilled to make it happen.

kaneboats
09-13-2010, 10:17 AM
Where did you connect the power for the 2nd Rule pump?

In theory, a 2nd pump should cut my fill times in 1/2. I REALLY like that idea!

I asked Newty this question before I blatantly copied his design. He just doubled up on the same line that was running the original pump. He has had no trouble at all with that setup. I have been running it that way all year with no problems.

deafgoose
09-13-2010, 10:27 AM
I asked Newty this question before I blatantly copied his design. He just doubled up on the same line that was running the original pump. He has had no trouble at all with that setup. I have been running it that way all year with no problems.

It would be nice to get some data on a 2 pump system.

cab13367
09-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Here are the results for the individual ballst bag fill times. The results are puzzling...

Left 6:56
Center: 6:50*
Right 6:20

This tells you that the Irritrols flow better than the Orbits at higher pressures but not at lower ones.


I am really leaning towards upgrading to the Rule 3800 because no holes would need to be drilled to make it happen.

You should really talk to the guys at wakemakers. Your stock 3/4" intake can only support so many GPH's so upgrading to the 3800 alone will not get you the results you are looking for. You will need to upsize everything in the flow path - intake, manifold, valves, hoses, fittings - to see significant improvements.

I upgraded mine to 1" and added two T-800's and it resulted in dramatic improvements and I didn't have to drill any new holes.

Here's a link to my ballast system upgrade including before and after fill times.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=11243

Al

deafgoose
09-14-2010, 05:12 PM
JesseC has already posted his fill times with the following results:

Rule 2000 - 3/4" Irritrol 700 valves, 3/4" scoop, Time: 10.75
Rule 3800 - 1" Irritorl 700 valves, 1" scoop - Time: 9.33

I am shocked how the 3800 and upgraded intake and valves made such a small difference. Upgrading my Rule 2000 to a Rule 3800 is now out the window.

cab13367
09-14-2010, 05:40 PM
JesseC has already posted his fill times with the following results:

Rule 2000 - 3/4" Irritrol 700 valves, 3/4" scoop, Time: 10.75
Rule 3800 - 1" Irritorl 700 valves, 1" scoop - Time: 9.33

I am shocked how the 3800 and upgraded intake and valves made such a small difference. Upgrading my Rule 2000 to a Rule 3800 is now out the window.

Yup, the 1" intake plus the added restrictions of the manifold and valves and the 3/4" hoses makes a one pump solution impractical. That's why most guys have gone to the T1200 with a separate 1" intake for each pump and a 1" line to each bag. It's more work and more expensive but you see dramatic improvements in fill times. I chose to go with something more budget friendly and just one intake and I am satisfied with the results (for now). :)

JesseC
09-15-2010, 02:29 PM
Yup, the 1" intake plus the added restrictions of the manifold and valves and the 3/4" hoses makes a one pump solution impractical. That's why most guys have gone to the T1200 with a separate 1" intake for each pump and a 1" line to each bag. It's more work and more expensive but you see dramatic improvements in fill times. I chose to go with something more budget friendly and just one intake and I am satisfied with the results (for now). :)

Cab,
actually I built a 1 1/4" internal manifold, went with 1" Irritrol valves and upgraded to 1" lines all around. The change from the 2000 and all 3/4" to the 3800 and all 1" was not that great of an improvement. By looking at the times goose is posting the stock valves in the newer boats flow as well as the Irritrol valves, but the ones that came on the older LSV boats were way worse than the Orbits.

I plan on going out one more time this year and I will try and get accurate timings on the water to fill all my ballast and a timing of each bag since everything should be good and broken in.