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View Full Version : Budget HLCD's FYI



jmvotto
10-13-2010, 10:52 PM
received an e-mail 175 pair unloaded, also over on WW
for those on a budget. new look is kinda cool.

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60% Off Sale - Version 2 Krypt 6.5" HLCD Wakeboard Tower Speakers

Click here to buy now, and use coupon code during checkout:

6.5 HLCD



http://www.bulletlines.com/HLCD-Wake...aker-p/465.htm

you da man
10-14-2010, 12:37 AM
Hmmm, new design? Must have found a new supplier after his Bullet Hollow Point copies were exhausted. Not saying it's not a good deal but find out about the warranty...if any.

jmvotto
10-14-2010, 09:47 AM
YDM, looks like they just changed the grill IMO. warranty , not sure .

For that price if they die, you get new ones, for that matter how many of us really blow a speaker and have it re-coned etc. todays society is a throw aways society ( you reapir a DVD player lately, fix a laptop or ipod , etc???)

These are like the Vizio of the lcd tv market, you get what you pay for. I thought i would pass it along because there have been guys on here on a limited budget for tower speakers. These sound pretty good and do project 80 ft.

If i had to do again and did not have a budget i would go with exile, i like the look and the "cool factor " of the spin clamps)

These were definitely and upgrade from the polks db651 inthe towers.

The original bullets stopped selling 6.5's so i guess the copying thing is a moot point now.... my .02

EarmarkMarine
10-14-2010, 10:47 AM
Just for a little clarification. The original Bullet HollowPoint company stopped making 6 1/2-inch HLCDs because they felt its impossible to get a small midbass cone to compete with the output of a horn loaded compression driver. Also, part of the balance equation is having adequate pod displacement. You may note that the Exile XM7, WetSounds Pro60 and HollowPoint 770 all have considerably larger pods than that which is typically available for a 6.5" driver. Personally, I want a speaker that has some musical integrity, even from an HLCD. I want lower midrange and a little midbass to accompany the treble. But, I do understand the limitations of someone who is trying to retrofit a speaker into existing or factory pods. On the other hand, I've found that most of these people end up upgrading in time anyway so it ends up being a temporary solution.
On another note, this year Bullet HollowPoint sent their engineer to China to collect all tooling related to their product so no more back door deals or stealing their design work. This also means no parts for reconing or service for products of questionable origins.
Keep this in mind. Kicker, NVS, Bullet HollowPoint, Exile, WetSounds, to name a few, have internal personel who have some engineering background and understand speaker and crossover design. I'm frequently in technical discussions with all of these companies. You can bet that if its an HLCD, any HLCD, it will be loud at 80 feet as that is impossible to get wrong. However,
just because a copycat product looks similar in form does not mean that it sounds the same, presents the same load to the amplifier and has the same level of design capability going into the product. You'll note that there is one company that is totally absent from any audio technical discussion on any forum and that is because there is very little audio technical knowledge there. I'm sure of this also as I've personally spoken with this person as well.
Just a few things to consider before you leap at a strictly price proposition.

David
Earmark Marine

sandm
10-14-2010, 11:29 AM
krypt is still filling a need that bullet stopped. you make some great points above, but if you don't have a full bank account, or just don't want to spend tons of cash on tower speakers, krypt is filling that need. I have heard krypt 6.5's and they don't sound that much different than my bullet 6.5's, especially when you figure that they are being played most of the time in a boat-full of people-in the open outdoors-travelling at 10-23mph-with different speakers in the boat-on a lake full of other sound systems-not listening to music with a lot of nuance..

there is a reason krypt and bullet exist in the boating world, just like in the home theater market there is a reason sony and magnepan exist. each one fills a nitche.

brain_rinse
10-14-2010, 11:50 AM
Well put, David and sandm. I'd like to copy/paste both responses any time a discussion comes up on krypt HLCDs.

jmvotto
10-14-2010, 12:12 PM
David, very well put.

Sandm, glad to know that they sound close as i do not have a reference point to compare with. using my Wetsounds eq does help shape the sound better.

sandm
10-14-2010, 12:23 PM
there's a guy with a krypt-powered tower on our lake. they don't sound bad at all... well, they actually sound like a$$, but I think it's his choice of music :)

you da man
10-14-2010, 02:42 PM
I'll keep my opinions to myself about Ken and Bulletlines in regards to legal issues with some of his speakers and tower racks. I'd rather be patient and catch the quality stuff on sale vs paying cheap for products that were the result of others design and research

EarmarkMarine
10-14-2010, 03:04 PM
Taking off my industry hat and putting on my consumer hat, Pride of Ownership comes into play for me. I want to own a product from a company that did it the right way for the right reasons. I also want to support those who support me or contribute to the advancement of the industry.
Here is my personal example. I wanted a Harley Davidson bike. It was over $20k. Instead I purchased a Harley lookalike for much, much less. It was a good bike. But everytime I looked at it after the newness rubbed off, I kept thinking of what I really wanted and why I wanted it. The bike I purchased rode well enough but I wasn't proud of it in the same way that I would have been with the Harley status. It may sound petty but that is how I felt none the less. So I sold the bike and learned a lesson.

sandm
10-14-2010, 04:18 PM
that is a good way to feel and I bet that you take great pride in what you do own.

however remember that not everyone can do that.. I'm sure that initially, the price of the 20k harley was part of the reason you bought the cheaper one. in your own words, it was a good bike. there are countless examples of this all over americana. how many of you go to the grocery store and buy generic or store-branded groceries. same concept.

not condoning someone "stealing" another design, but having stuff made in china is an invitation to having a vendor's stuff sold across the black market.

jmvotto
10-14-2010, 04:19 PM
We have all bought the generic version of something in our lifetime, i could go on and on about that.

I was just trying to inform the moomba community that there is a bargain going on for 6.5" HLCD pass along a deal that was e-mailed to me.

the moomba community is very valued oriented on some things, thats why we own moomba's not MC or nautiques, and why group buys boost some retailers sales, a perceived deal.

I think everyone knows the history here so its not about service, warranty, etc. atcually the customer service side of krypt has been good. IMO.

as YDM stated, I would wait for a sale for quality equipment, me too, but whens the last time those three that were mentionedf, havehad a sale on sale..... maybe the bullet HP 6.5 two years ago $200 unloaded as i recall

One company has made and effort and a very genereous effort to convert a budget minded or just naive moomba owner over to their product. can you say winter project...:)


$ for $ you can't beat it, not everyone can throw 500 to 1000 bucks at a set of tower speakers. there is a market and there are satisfied customers and they will be converts who wish they bough the harley in the first place, or the MC, or the nautique


not sure why this little sale and this "nobody" sparks so much heated debate.

EarmarkMarine
10-14-2010, 04:51 PM
We are certainly not having a heated debate here on this forum on this subject unless you feel we are. I respect the fact that Moomba is a value minded community and I already took that perspective into account before making my comments. I definitely have the same right in expressing my thoughts.
As for why this particular individual sparks so much debate you can clear that issue up by doing a search on CenturionCrew or WakeWorld pertaining to HLCD tower speakers, equalizers, underwater lights, fiberglass work and a number of other products and services. I won't give a summary as you should do the search and come to your own conclusions.
As for sharing the sale information I see nothing but doing the community a service there. Don't get sensitive about that because that has never been the issue in this exchange of perspectives.

sandm
10-14-2010, 05:00 PM
debate is good. it is nice to see earmark very passionate about what they sell. that speaks to their company and what should result in the service after the sale(very satisfied with my bullet purchase and hope to end up with 770's someday). sometimes people do forget that not everyone has deep pockets or wants to spend the $$ on top end gear. bet there are many moomba owners that could very easily be in a mc, but chose value for the $$ over status :)

so how many you hangin on the tower? 6??

jmvotto
10-14-2010, 05:28 PM
Sandman, I am hanging two. the 1 5/8 tower really can't support a lot more that that.


David,
I have read all those in the past and understand the he said she said debate. most everyone on here knows about bulletlines its all over the web as you state.

we all have made customer relation mistake or irritated a customer or potential customer along the way from time to time. unfortunately the web can really stretch the truth... enough said.

your site has about the most detailed marine audio gear and accesories i have ever browsed, and i have referred your site many times to others for your promos etc. this was just another deal available to our forum members and i thought it stated "budget minded" which infers cheap i guess.

Didn't Perer Drucker state something like " success is based Innovation and marketing" some comapny's have both, some have one or the other.

EarmarkMarine
10-14-2010, 05:50 PM
As the father of modern business management if Peter says it then its true. Btw, the Harley example was just one experience and not to be overlearned or applied to every buying decision. I'll buy a Craftsman tool over a Snap-On
most of the time. But I'll buy a Snap-On multibit screwdriver if I'm using it industrially where I can't be bothered with constant replacement bits even if covered under warranty. One of the key points in these analogies is that a Moomba may have less frills than a MC but no one questions the quality or integrity of a Moomba. Moomba has no stigma attached to the brand. Based on that I would have no reservations in owning a Moomba and taking great pride in it. We work on them constantly for the local dealer as a matter of fact.

sandm
10-14-2010, 06:16 PM
I wonder then if the stigma attached to krypt is more the guy that sells them seems to be somewhat shady vs the actual product. there seems to be some issues out there as it relates to getting repairs done, but yet there are satisfied customers as well. I have bought many sears tools over the years(craftsman vs snapon) and had to deal with replacements. sometimes the experience is easy, and sometimes it's very painful. the salesman makes that determination :)

I do second jm's comment on the earmark website. I have drooled.. er looked over their site many times. I'd love to put together a new system from their catalog :) I got superb service from the boat guy there when I was on the fence for tower speakers. ultimately it was him that sold me on the $700+ order for the 4 bullets. as I said, the salesman makes the determination :)

jmvotto
10-14-2010, 10:32 PM
I got superb service from the boat guy there when I was on the fence for tower speakers. ultimately it was him that sold me on the $700+ order for the 4 bullets. as I said, the salesman makes the determination :)

You got 4 loaded HP 6.5 HLCD's for 700+.?
I would have been all over that like a fat kid on a cupcake:p

viking
10-14-2010, 11:25 PM
They weren't loaded if I recall? SandM cut out his current cans to squeeze in some 6.5's. Check out his profile pics or his mod thread :)

jmvotto
10-15-2010, 09:06 AM
They weren't loaded if I recall? SandM cut out his current cans to squeeze in some 6.5's. Check out his profile pics or his mod thread :)

still a good deal that would have made me go HP vs krypt.

Sandm, you have access to you boat during the winter months or is it away in storage someplace.? Maybe we could do a direct hlcd comparison kind prop test gone audio. i'll send you a pm if you are interested.

kaneboats
10-15-2010, 10:25 AM
Not to get too far off topic, but: My experience is that Craftsman now tells you "too bad" when their tools break. I have 2 broken ratchets that have seen very light use. Based just on the ratchets I have concluded that their product ain't what it used to be. So the other side of the coin is that if it costs more and its crap then I'd rather have the Chinese ratchet-- which is probably what the Craftsman one is now anyway.

sandm
10-15-2010, 10:27 AM
wow, interesting kane. I haven't been to sears in a while for breakage as I have not had a need to use a screwdriver as a prybar.. I do have a ratchet that is about ready to give it up. that last nail I pounded in did it :)

sandm
10-15-2010, 10:36 AM
still a good deal that would have made me go HP vs krypt.

Sandm, you have access to you boat during the winter months or is it away in storage someplace.? Maybe we could do a direct hlcd comparison kind prop test gone audio. i'll send you a pm if you are interested.


I bought mine last november, and I believe I paid $350/set, but that was unloaded. I used the factory roswell cans as I like the look of them. I would guess that the pricing at that time was to relieve some excess inventory with them now discontinued.

not sure what you have in mind for an audio test. one of the first things any reputable shop will tell you is to bring your own test music when buying speakers since they are a totally subjective purchase. I have heard Bose 901's and were not impressed, but most audio purists will tell you that they are one of the best speakers ever built.
I do have access to the boat, but it's not truly set up for listening. it's completely covered and tower is folded down onto the top of the cover, with batteries removed. I can get it turned on tho. :)

jmvotto
10-15-2010, 01:05 PM
Sandm, I was thinking of sending them to you to throw up in you setup and fade back and forth to hear the diffrences. Yours are in the roswell and mine in seperate pod. Good thought but probably not worth the trouble.

Now if David wants to send me a HP 6.5 i will be sure to test it in my pod in may and report the results ... or maybe i can send it to david and he can do an unbiased report....

sandm
10-15-2010, 01:30 PM
would be nice, but since bullet isn't offering the 6.5's anymore, probably not relavent. you will enjoy them once you have them installed. hlcd's are sooo much better than the standard 6.5's :)

this will be one winter project you will enjoy..

jmvotto
10-15-2010, 01:58 PM
would be nice, but since bullet isn't offering the 6.5's anymore, probably not relavent. you will enjoy them once you have them installed. hlcd's are sooo much better than the standard 6.5's :)

this will be one winter project you will enjoy..

I have the krypt 6.5" in aerial cans, just wanted to test the difference of the existing HP 6.5"'s

EarmarkMarine
10-15-2010, 04:51 PM
The comparison would be pointless. Its common knowledge and fact that Krypt pulled a backdoor deal with the China builder to bybass all of the R&D, tooling, overseas travel, etc. that the original Bullet had invested in. Krypt got away with pure theft in that all they had to do was pay the tooling for a grill option that Bullet had already designed. They only had to add their logo. The compression tweeters are different between the two which constitutes the only major difference. I doubt a cheaper Krypt tweeter connected to the same horn will make a difference at 80 feet. Besides, Bullet discontinued their 6 1/2-inch proposition. Don't see any point in continuing to send this issue up the flagpole but the above should just about conclude exactly what it is that fuels the irritation. Bullet had a binding foriegn and domestic agreement with the builder which the builder broke. Bullet sent a guy to China to retrieve all tooling. Krypt can't get replacement or service parts. From here on out any new Krypt product will be a copycat product but without the above ethical conflict. So the playground will be open in my opinion.

sandm
10-15-2010, 07:36 PM
that's what sucks about dealing with the chinese...
I work in a distribution center for a regional retailer(think like target) and I can list several occasions where my floor ready department has had to re-tag clothing that came in with kohls, kmart, macy's, you name it tags on them. had sweaters one year at our store and another "mall" retailer with a $40 difference for each one(we were cheaper).. it's rampant over there...

EarmarkMarine
10-15-2010, 07:48 PM
Truer words were never spoken.