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View Full Version : Looking for Advice for a lot of things!!



MTMOOMBA
11-22-2010, 09:03 PM
Hello from snowy Montana!! Already dreaming of the lake. My wife and I scored a sweet deal on our 07 Outback V this last summer. It only had 23hrs on it, and is pretty much brand new! We are looking to upgrade some stuff such as add speakers to the tower. I am hoping a few folks out there might have some advice for us?! Also we love surfing but can't quite drop the rope. The boat is pretty much stock with not many upgrades other than one ballast bag in the ski locker. Anything we can do to add weight but not take up all our storage in back!? Thanks everyone!

you da man
11-22-2010, 09:31 PM
Stock speakers suck except for floating. At minimum replace the cabin speakers with Polk db651 for the economical route or if you have deeper pockets then look at the Bullet HP 650, Wetsounds 6.5, or the Exile 6.5. Tower speakers are pretty much the same brands. If you surf more than wakeboard you can just get the non-HLCD speakers. If you board more than surf, get the HLCD speakers of the three brands mentioned. Then you need to worry about amps and batteries. As for the ballast for surfing AND not filling up the rear...sorry, ain't gonna happen without going with solid ballast. You can surf with 400's or 565's in the rear lockers but you'll want the 750's before long.

jmvotto
11-22-2010, 09:49 PM
Hello from snowy Montana!! Already dreaming of the lake. My wife and I scored a sweet deal on our 07 Outback V this last summer. It only had 23hrs on it, and is pretty much brand new! We are looking to upgrade some stuff such as add speakers to the tower. I am hoping a few folks out there might have some advice for us?! Also we love surfing but can't quite drop the rope. The boat is pretty much stock with not many upgrades other than one ballast bag in the ski locker. Anything we can do to add weight but not take up all our storage in back!? Thanks everyone!

welcome, i have a 07 obv and have run through many modifications including the gi to giii ballast upgrade. great boat enjoy.... pm me with specifics

kaneboats
11-23-2010, 10:47 AM
Congrats on the new Moomba. Welcome aboard. This forum is a treasure trove of information and you'll find lots of helpful folks and maybe even make some great friends. Enjoy!

MTMOOMBA
11-27-2010, 09:54 PM
Hey Thanks guys for the info...Christmas is coming so I'm trying to get my wish list put together! I had a feeling the surfing wasn't going to happen without some more weight in rear end. I think we are 50/50 as far as surfing and boarding go! I'm looking forward to shopping around for some audio stuff. Not sure if I should talk to our local audio stores or go online?!

kaneboats
11-29-2010, 11:33 AM
I would start with the audio forum on here. There is some great experience and lots of help available.

moombabound
11-29-2010, 11:42 AM
Does it have a subwoofer? If not, priority 1 sound-wise.

you da man
11-30-2010, 11:52 AM
Does it have a subwoofer? If not, priority 1 sound-wise.

I agree. At higher volumes, especially when cruising, if you do not have a sub or at least speakers that can produce mid-bass, the stock speakers can get pretty bright...especially the Kenwoods in the 07

EarmarkMarine
12-01-2010, 10:19 AM
If you have the six factory speakers driven only by the source unit then your first audio upgrade is clear. Add a 4-channel amplifier to run those six coaxials. If you plan on adding a subwoofer then make it a 5 or 6-channel amplifier in advance to encompass the subwoofer also. I always recommend that you first add what you don't have and upgrade later on what you already have.
I know that radios boast big power but in reality a radio is around four times 15 watts at best...maybe more when lightning strikes (per WLS ratings). As you crank it up the available bandwidth narrows and the power distorts long before the speaker begins to show limitations thus it gets brighter and harsh, not to mention that there is no way for a four channel radio to drive six speakers effectively even though factory has done this for years. A radio is comfortable with no less than a 4-ohm load.
I'm not a basshead but a subwoofer in my opinion is essential. Otherwise, you lose out on the bottom two octaves of music, it never sounds completely natural and you don't have the perception of volume without pushing it to an uncomfortable level. Once you highpass the existing coaxials limiting their responsibility and excursion plus properly power them the sound will be infinitely louder and cleaner. Whether Kenwood or Kicker, the stock speakers are the entry level series so an upgrade may be in order down the road, however, you stand to make a huge initial improvement with the power. If you select a great but moderate mass subwoofer you can run the entire in-boat system off a single multi-channel amplifier. Obviuosly if you select a 1000 watt woofer it will necessitate an inordinate amount of power to drive it...since the moving parts weigh as much as a small telephone directory...and this would require a separate amplifier. Again, its not necessary if you design your system for efficiency and match components accordingly.
When you get around to tower speakers you should have a dedicated tower speaker amplifier given the inequity of power needed to project a great distance in competition with engine noise versus the immediate proximity of the in-boat speakers. Your tower speaker selection and amplification will be predicated on your typical listening situations and priorities such as close range surfing versus distant wakeboarding.
Those are a few of the surface considerations in building your audio system.

David
Earmark Marine

MTMOOMBA
12-02-2010, 06:52 PM
Thanks Everyone, that is a ton of info!!! I'm not an electrical guy by any means so this information is helping a great deal to help me understand. It all makes good sense. I did want to ask though..is a 5-6 channel amplifier enough to run the 6 regular "in-cockpit" speakers, tower speakers and sub-woofer or should i still plan on two amplifiers?! Just wanted to clarify, thanks again everyone!!

EarmarkMarine
12-02-2010, 09:21 PM
Let's take a 6-channel amplifier for an example. You can stretch it to all three zones (in-boat coaxials, sub and tower speakers). Two channels will bridge mono to the sub. Two channels will run up to four conventional tower coaxials.
Two channels will run four cockpit coaxials. The bow coaxials would run off the source unit power. Here are the shortcomings: Its not enough power to reach wakeboarding range with any degree of authority and without overdriving these two channels into distortion. The tower speakers, whether conventional coaxials, HLCDs or a hybrid, require a much greater level of power given the challenges than do the in-boat speakers. Any 5 or 6-channel amplifier is going to be limited to around 100 watts per channel highpass and that is simply not enough for this task. That same level of power is perfect for the in-boat four cockpit coaxials. In reality the source unit power is limited to around 12 watts per channel to drive the two bow coaxials as compared to 50 watts driving each of the four cockpit coaxials via the amplifier. This is based on rating both of these ampifiers at a similar bandwidth. The source unit is going to clip way early. This is unacceptable because when you overdrive the source unit you also distort the preouts that feed the amplifier so the entire system gets dirty. To offset this you would have to seriously gain up the amplifier inputs which would raise the noise floor, limit the linear range of your volume control and create a condition where the bow speakers cannot keep up (not even close). Alternately, you can't run three pair of coaming coaxials off two amplifier channels as the load would be 1.33 ohms which is unstable. Next, we can load a multi-channel amplifier down selectively but to stretch all five or six channels to the limit will overtax the amplifier's common power supply and you are going to thermal the amplifier on a warm summer day. Can you get by in the short term this way and build incrementally? Sure.
In the end, the most cost effective and simple amplifier division is going to be between tower (2-channel amplifier) and in-boat/subwoofer (5 or 6-channel amplifier).
Planning for this will keep you from buying something that is disappointing and obsolete.
As systems become larger the best configuration will change. If you want to dominate then the approach will change. What I have outlined fits everything from a family boat to a very impressive system and will last problem free.
From here you just need to correctly balance the amplification and speakers. A balanced design will have more to do with the performance and value than what you spend or what you save.

David
Earmark Marine

MTMOOMBA
12-18-2010, 08:37 PM
I think that has cleared up a lot of my questions. Now I just have to figure out what brand to go with. I kind of have this OCD thing about not piecing stuff together! I want to choose a brand (kicker, JL, alpine, etc.) and follow it through all the way. So my next question would be what brand would you recommend as far as "bang for your buck?" I'm planning on a 2 channel amp for the tower, a 5-6 channel amp for the sub, and cockpit speakers, and a subwoofer.

KG's Supra24
12-20-2010, 09:37 AM
Have you decided on HLCD or non HLCD? Sub or no sub? I'm surprised no one has asked your budget. Boat systems can range anywhere from 500 to 5,000 so there really is a lot to consider.

Your big 3 in boating are Bullet, Exile, and Wetsounds but you're gonna have to pay to play. As far as your typical brands you should be fine with JL, Kicker, Alpine, etc. I haven't seen a lot of Alpine on the forums, though.

MTMOOMBA
01-14-2011, 12:25 AM
Hey KG, I think I'm leaning more towards the Kicker or JL brand of things. I currently still have the stock Kenwood deck and speakers. I think I will end up going with the HLCD tower speakers. The trouble for me is our boating season is so short in Montana that I don't think I can justify a 5000 dollar stereo system. I'm hoping to be in the 1000 to 1500 range.

EarmarkMarine
01-14-2011, 09:16 AM
MT,
A pair of HLCD tower speakers from a quality brand such as Kicker, HollowPoint, Exile or WetSounds with a couple of hundred watts a side from a quality amplifier builder such as JL Audio should be a walk in the park. You've got budget to spare without making compromises.

David
Earmark Marine

KG's Supra24
01-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Hey KG, I think I'm leaning more towards the Kicker or JL brand of things. I currently still have the stock Kenwood deck and speakers. I think I will end up going with the HLCD tower speakers. The trouble for me is our boating season is so short in Montana that I don't think I can justify a 5000 dollar stereo system. I'm hoping to be in the 1000 to 1500 range.

I say 500 to 5,000 because there is a slew of different ways to do things. If you do your homework and plan properly, you should be able to build a solid system for your price point.

As David said, you should be able to get a nice HLCD tower setup and amps for your price point.