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dru1974
12-01-2010, 07:25 PM
I see again skiers choice has forgotten their roots and failed to have the outback approved for awsa, not rite to forget what got them to the place they are presently at

sandm
12-02-2010, 09:54 AM
http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=9898&highlight=awsa

according to deerfield, this cost money. skiers might not be in a position to make that investment, not to mention of the 2 lines they carry, only one even makes a dd boat anymore. might not see the ROI in spending the cash to get certified. I would suspect in today's age of surfing/boarding, that the percentage of dd boats vs v-drive might make getting certified a moot point..

snowboardcorey
12-06-2010, 10:16 AM
Typically a boats certification is good for two years provided there is no change in the hull or engine. If the Outback was tested last years its cert. would still be valid.

dru1974
12-07-2010, 09:47 AM
That's the thing last year they didn't have it certified either

sandm
12-07-2010, 11:17 AM
would be interesting to see the numbers on competitive waterskiing where you need a certfied towboat vs wakeboarding and wakesurfing. again, guessing with only 1 dd boat in skiers line(outback dd the only one going fwd??), does it really make sense to spend the cash for one boat?
perhaps if it's a 2 year cycle, they are hoping to jump on 2012 and hoping another will drop out? or new/different hull design coming and hoping to help sell it?

maxpower220
12-07-2010, 05:29 PM
would be interesting to see the numbers on competitive waterskiing where you need a certfied towboat vs wakeboarding and wakesurfing.

If I understand your statement: Every AWSA event has to have cert boat. In fact, every grassroots league of waterskiing required a certified boat. People have slowed down on buying promo boats from CC, MC, and Bu due to the economy and the rapid de-value of inboards now. People who had promo boats in the past buy them from the maker at a slightly discounted price and must take them to events throughout the year. At the end of the year, they sell the boat and order one for the next year. Thus, a new boat each year with a commitment on having a new certified boat at tournys all year. Now, those people can't sell the promo boat without a huge loss and they have no desire to lose money on a boat that they must take to events. Pretty soon, no one will have a boat at an event. The only boats will be the Moombas of the area and they won't be certified. It is a big problem to not certify a boat these days, IMO.

sandm
12-07-2010, 06:56 PM
all good points and makes sense, from the perspective of the guy buying the boat or the guy in the tournament, not the ones responsible for forking out the dough to get a boat "certified". look at it from skiers perspective:
the skiboat industry is in a major slump, and I would bet that sales are still at historic lows for new boats. skiers choice is probably still reeling from the crash 3 years ago as you don't hear about major hiring going on. cash reserves are not what they were. skiers lineup has dropped all DD boats in the supra line, and only have one left in the moomba line, which says the general population buying boats are not buying DD boats anymore(heck same 4 mid2000's DD boats have been on cl here for months and months). so if you are running skiers, do you take the limited advertising/promotional $$(and yes, I would expect certification $$ to be considered advertising) and put it into a single boat that represents a small fraction of what you are selling/building, or put those same $$ into vdrives, where the sales are?
it's simple economics. I can't believe, as a business owner, that Rick would see the value right now in spending hard cash that can keep a business running on certifying their lone ski boat for competition/grassroots contests that represent such a minute slice of their overall business.

don't take any of this as a hate on waterskiing, as I love to watch my buddy tear it up in his boomerang, but the reality on our lake, and betting most others are the same: the guy that is a serious skiier either already has an older ski boat that will outperform anything new today, or has a family and has needed to make the compromise with a more "family friendly" crossover boat to allow decent boarding/surfing as well as decent-but not great-slalom skiing.. a business that doesn't change with the times is a dead business. skiers choice pays homage to the industry that made them with every outback dd that goes out the door, but the reality is vdrive is the market today and they have made the correct decision, all again imo, in supporting/building on their vdrive market.

skiyaker
12-07-2010, 07:16 PM
I'm a little surprised Supra hasn't done what nautique has done with the sport nautique 200 and that is to market a V drive boat with a removable center pylon marketed toward the dad who skis with the kids who board. A hard core skier won't ever want a V drive but I'll bet there are plenty of "good enough for me" guys like myself who would like to have a few extra ski features in a boat that can also board and surf. It seems like the board is getting a lot of posts lately to the effect "could I ski behind an OBV or LSV"

sandm
12-07-2010, 08:08 PM
mine has a very flat wake at 34-36mph. it has satisfied several hardcore skiers to the point that it would make a decent multisport boat. I believe that it is billed as supra's do it all boat, and all the supra lines have a stowable pylon.. your outbackv should be about the same as well. light, small and do it all good, but not any great :) it's the boat/hull that supra used to make as a dd, but quit in '08 or '09

maxpower220
12-07-2010, 08:17 PM
I guess part of my point was the actual cost of CC, MC, and Bu. Since skiers aren't getting promo boats because they aren't a "good deal" anymore, they may look to brands like Moomba for the cost savings. However, if you can't use it in a tourney, no need to look or buy. I don't recall SC (Moomba) having a promo program at all, so this is just my trickle down theory. Grassroots skiers will be around for a while. With no future plans in a business to take over a segment of watersport, there is no way to grow a company. It is my belief that CC, MC, and Bu have basically priced themselves out of sport. However, they are the only supporters of that sport, so no competition.

snowboardcorey
12-09-2010, 08:12 AM
I see this more as the AWSA's self created problem. For instance, why aren't boats "grandfathered in" if they haven't changed? Many of the current tournament boats haven't changed for years and, with the exception of MC offering ILMOR engines, neither have the engines. If a tested hull, engine and tranny haven't changed why would a manufacture need to pay to have it re-certified? In my opinion a certified combo should be certified until a major component (hull, engine, tranny) are changed or no longer available as a current model.

sandm
12-09-2010, 09:25 AM
going to assume that the awsa, like any business, needs capital to continue to function. part of that capital comes from certifying boats. if they grandfathered existing boats in, how many real changes are there in hull designs over the last 10-15 years? My guess is that they would go from several fees/year to almost nil. of course, on the flip side, it also forces guys that put on the competitions to spend money on boats every few years, which directly helps the boat manuf. by getting new models out on the lake for guys to ski behind, and hopefully the itch to buy a new boat..

snowboardcorey
12-09-2010, 01:24 PM
I definitely see the issue for funding for the AWSA but I still don't think it justifies forcing a manufacturer to re-certify a boat (at a cost) that has already passed the test when the boat, nor the test, has changed.

The only solution for the funding I really have would be to try to increase participation which would make it easier for the AWSA to find outside sponsors, like when BUD sponsored the Pro Waterski Tour.

barefooterh2o
12-22-2010, 10:33 PM
I'm a slalom skier and barefooter and buy a new DD every 2 years. Last 26 years I own a car/boat repair company and we do engineering consulting work for major accidents. I have to recertify in 9 different areas every 1 to 4 years. I don't have to do it because it does cost money and time, but it puts me on top of the competition. Doesn't make me any smarter but if you going to do something, go all out so there is no room for complaints.
That's my opinion. I do enjoy the 2 Outbacks I currently use.