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gus 08 mobius lsv
02-22-2011, 10:53 AM
i know there isn't anyone from sc that would suggest its ok to go over the weight limit of the boat but how far over have some of you guys been with full tank of fuel bags filled for either boarding or surfing and a gang of people in the boat. one weekend we were out i tried to honestly figure up all the weight in the boat and was about 200 lbs over the limit. i didn't feel like i was even close to sinkin it or that i lost any control of the boat just took slightly longer to get on plane. but i always hate to turn people down cause it might put me right at of little over the limit. any thoughts on this??

kaneboats
02-22-2011, 11:02 AM
I've seen the argument on here that water weight doesn't count because it won't sink your boat. It may swamp it but water won't sink it.

you da man
02-22-2011, 11:06 AM
My boat says 2350lbs I believe for rating but I've ran 3,000lbs of ballast, 3 adults, and 40 gallons of fuel (plus 3 batteries) with no problem. I have the Acme 1235 prop

gus 08 mobius lsv
02-22-2011, 11:10 AM
My boat says 2350lbs I believe for rating but I've ran 3,000lbs of ballast, 3 adults, and 40 gallons of fuel (plus 3 batteries) with no problem. I have the Acme 1235 prop

what is your ballast set up how big of bags and where if you don't mind me askin?

and how much you run while you board vs surf?

KG's Supra24
02-22-2011, 11:27 AM
Typically we run about 2000 boarding, 52 gallons of fuel, 8 or so people plus all the gear and dont think twice about it. Didn't have any issues. We have run up to 2700 in ballast as well. Supra's like more weight up front (60/40 split) so we usually don't fill the rears full.

Surfing we would run up to the same weight all on one side, full tank, full boat and not have any issues.

Each boat is going to be different though on what it can take and how it makes it feel.

KG's Supra24
02-22-2011, 11:28 AM
My boat says 2350lbs I believe for rating but I've ran 3,000lbs of ballast, 3 adults, and 40 gallons of fuel (plus 3 batteries) with no problem. I have the Acme 1235 prop

In this instance. Rated for 2350lbs, the boat probably came stock with 1980 lbs ballast ... it is tough to think water counts in their calculation.

gus 08 mobius lsv
02-22-2011, 11:49 AM
i guess i always assumed that ballast counted for the weight limit but sounds like everyone else isn't worried about the ballast putting them well over the limit so this summer i'll see how much she can take. thanks guys

brain_rinse
02-22-2011, 12:01 PM
About 2500 lbs of ballast plus the crew & gear. Just have to be careful not to dunk the bow. Gotta have the right prop too...

And the ballast totally counts in the calculation.

jjolson
02-22-2011, 12:11 PM
2200lbs of ballast plus gear and people. 1433 ACME prop. Agree that ballast has to enter into the calculation.

sandm
02-22-2011, 12:14 PM
popo told me that ballast is part of the total weight..

I run 1100 in the rear corner, 400 on the seat, 400 in the walkway, 400 in the front locker, 40gal fuel, a cooler full of "soda" and if 5 or more plus gear, that's all. if 3 or 4, then another 400 on the floor up against the surfside seat.
I figure that I'm running almost 4k in weight and peeps most times. I think the placard states 2300 or something like that. rubrail has been pretty deep at times, and as mentioned above, you have to really watch rollers and the bow, but the boat never felt "unsafe". when done surfing, we blow the rear 1100 and the ski locker 400 before going back to the marina or dock, so we are only that loaded when actually surfing.

have been told before that here, if the boat is over 20ft(any competition wakeboat) that the popo won't mess with you unless you have 12+peeps or are endangering the safety of other boaters based on your actions(to include being overweight and creating an unsafe envorionment for others)..

you da man
02-22-2011, 12:23 PM
In this instance. Rated for 2350lbs, the boat probably came stock with 1980 lbs ballast ... it is tough to think water counts in their calculation.

Hard to argue that water is not counted when I'm listed over to the rubrail and it's only me and my lady on the boat...just saying.

you da man
02-22-2011, 12:26 PM
what is your ballast set up how big of bags and where if you don't mind me askin?

and how much you run while you board vs surf?

1100 v-drive sacs, 1180 center sac, plus 3 extra 400lb sacs. Surfing reg side usually 2600lbs, goofy side 3400lbs, and wakeboarding 2000-2500lbs

KG's Supra24
02-22-2011, 12:33 PM
Hard to argue that water is not counted when I'm listed over to the rubrail and it's only me and my lady on the boat...just saying.


Not sure what you are talking about here.

I am saying if SC puts a placard on there that states 2300 is weight limit, your boat came with 1980 lbs ballast, how realistic is the placard? Do they really expect you to ride a 16 (maybe 15 on xlv? dunno) passenger boat within 320 lbs of people, fuel, and gear weight?

I am sure it is calculated in the popo calculation but i am simple stating that the placard is unrealistic from the get go, being that it is listed at 320 lbs over stock ballast.

you da man
02-22-2011, 01:21 PM
^^^ true on the rating. That's why they won't or say they won't upgrade the sacs if the weight will exceed the rating

kaneboats
02-22-2011, 01:24 PM
I don't run that much weight but if I did I'd remove the placard. It's only mandatory for a boat under 20 ft. But, it can be used against you if it is displayed in a boat larger than that. I wouldn't display it.

mmandley
02-22-2011, 01:31 PM
The placards are the weight of the box max. This means ballast or people or a combo of both.

At any time you fill your ballast and then add people and are over the weight of the boat you can be given a citation.

At any time you alter, move, or remove the weight rating of a boat put there by the factory you can be sited.

The placard says 2500Lbs thats the total weight of anything added to the boat after it leaves the factory.

Stereo, gear, people, fuel, beer, food, ballast bags, get the idea?

Its no different then if they took your boats dry weight then subtracted it from a scale as your boat is sitting in the water at the time of the infraction if its more then placard you are in violation.

How serious do the Marine patrol play this out? Not to serious as the ones here know im running 2500 Lbs of ballast. What they do do is head count and life vest count and i better not be over my People occupansy listed on the placard.

sandm
02-22-2011, 02:45 PM
What they do do is head count and life vest count

this, imo is the most important one to remember, and it's what they focus on up here. if you fail this one, you shoudn't be on the lake at all.
and if you have kids under 12 on the boat, making sure that their lifejackets are age-appropriate. I don't have kids and demand this one, amazing that some parents that do have them don't care :confused:

kaneboats
02-22-2011, 03:06 PM
At any time you fill your ballast and then add people and are over the weight of the boat you can be given a citation.

At any time you alter, move, or remove the weight rating of a boat put there by the factory you can be sited.

Its no different then if they took your boats dry weight then subtracted it from a scale as your boat is sitting in the water at the time of the infraction if its more then placard you are in violation.



You can be cited for looking at them wrong too. It won't usually hold up though. What's the citation for the statute that requires you to display a placard in a boat over 20 ft.? Or just tell me where you found that?

moombadaze
02-22-2011, 03:30 PM
http://nyss.com/federal

good reading since our boating season is coming up

mmandley
02-22-2011, 05:50 PM
http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/reviewpages/boatusf/project/info1a.htm

http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/599kidsques.htm

Heres a couple sites with some of that info

kaneboats
02-22-2011, 07:37 PM
Please let me know when you find it.

sandm
02-22-2011, 07:45 PM
I could be wrong, but I thought boats over 20ft didn't need a placard here?

mmandley
02-22-2011, 08:06 PM
Please let me know when you find it.

OK Kane hope this answers the question.

http://www.boat-ed.com/wa/course/p2-1_knowyourcapacity.htm

Here ill even paste the exact wordage for you.

Although federal law requires capacity plates only on boats less than 20 feet in length, the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) requires a capacity plate on all boats less than 26 feet in order to be certified by NMMA.

Now seeing this maybe its not against federal law to remove it but i dare you to remove it and have the boat looked at by Marine Patrol.

bzubke1
02-22-2011, 08:21 PM
Has anyone ever gotten or heard of someone getting a ticket for ballast being more than capacity? I haven't.

sandm
02-22-2011, 08:34 PM
From what I read, you can remove it with no penalty. If u restore a boat. Most dealers won't give u a new one as they don't know what has changed to alter capacity.
Formula is: length X width divided by 15. Gives u total peeps allowed, and there must be some universal weight they all use for a peep.
Really says u don't need as anyone can do quick math and see if u are ok..
Never heard of a ticket. Seems most that I know that have been stopped had other ticket-worthy issues..

mmandley
02-22-2011, 09:43 PM
Yea they mention normal person weight of 150 in several i have read. I was stripping all the stickers off my boat last spring and i was warned not to touch that one. i did some reading on it and that's what i found. At my lake here in Oregon they do a safety inspection each year and that's the first thing they check on my boat. I see the Marine Patrol almost every time im out so i get to ask them lots of questions to deture them from writing me a ticket for something. LOL

skiyaker
02-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Has anyone ever gotten or heard of someone getting a ticket for ballast being more than capacity? I haven't.

I've not gotten one but I could see it happening on our lakes. Typically they'll ask to see your life vests and in Indiana you have to have a throwable cushion within arm's reach (my dad got a warning because his was stored in a compartment). I think they do that partially as a quick sobriety test- if you sound drunk they'll rightfully ticket you for everything possible.

kaneboats
02-23-2011, 12:14 PM
OK Kane hope this answers the question.

http://www.boat-ed.com/wa/course/p2-1_knowyourcapacity.htm

Here ill even paste the exact wordage for you.

Although federal law requires capacity plates only on boats less than 20 feet in length, the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) requires a capacity plate on all boats less than 26 feet in order to be certified by NMMA.

Now seeing this maybe its not against federal law to remove it but i dare you to remove it and have the boat looked at by Marine Patrol.

All right. Do me a favor. Don't tell people it's against the law to remove it when that is not the case. As for the NMMA, it's just a club, not a lawmaking body of any kind.

As a rule, I don't get the law from cops -- I go to the laws. Most of the cops have no idea what the law is. I stand by my remark about removing the placard in a boat over 20 feet. If you don't want to take a day off of work to go to court I understand why you would be afraid to remove yours. I don't let cops bully me though and I'm always willing to confront them in court. Never forget who has the burden of proof.

sandm
02-23-2011, 02:23 PM
doesn't skiers list the outback v at 20.0 ft?

thesack
02-23-2011, 02:55 PM
I am running 3400 lbs of ballast now, last year I was running 2700. But I had a talk with the sheriff one day about ballast (the crappy law we have and max weight capacity of the boat) he told me that typically they do not care about the ballast weight with regards to your capacity. But if you are over loaded with people and/or being an idiot on the water they will enforce the max capacity. Also found out that if you are wakeboarding, surfing, tubing, skiing, etc. a life vest is not required to be warn in Oregon.

brain_rinse
02-23-2011, 03:01 PM
that's the nominal number for advertising and then the description states "just under 20 feet"

It's actually about 19' 11.5" without platform
I had heard that they do that to stay under some lakes' requirement that all boats be < 20 feet. Funny that they get it with in half an inch!

kaneboats
02-23-2011, 04:09 PM
It's under 20 feet isn't it?

brain_rinse
02-23-2011, 04:12 PM
It's under 20 feet isn't it?
For sure! I'd love to see the Ranger pull out the tape measure though. :)

schuylski
02-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Alright, well you guys got me thinking... and then as I was looking around I really got going because there is all sorts of CRAP posted everywhere that makes no sense, contradicts, and is based off of something heard from an aunt's monkey's brother's girlfriend, or yo mama's cuz billy bob who's got the fastest boat this side of that there Mississippi. I'm not encouraging overloading your boat, I'm looking for facts. Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT give a link if you correct - not just another joe blow rant and rave explanation about who knows what...

From the searching I've done, if you are over 20 feet, you don't need a capacity plate. "This subpart applies to monohull boats less than 20 feet in length, except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats." http://law.justia.com/cfr/title33/33-2.0.1.8.44.html#33:2.0.1.8.44.2

If you are over 20 feet and have a label, it seems you can't be cited by the USCG for being overweight solely because of the capacity plate. That can be a factor in the determination, but it is basically up to the boarding officer's discretion of what is safe.
However, you can be cited by a state officer. Some states have more stringent rules.
"In the USA the label is a manufacturer requirement. The boat owner does not have any responsibility under Federal law for this label, not even for complying with the values on the label. (they do in Canada) However, most states have passed laws making it illegal in the particular state to exceed the capacities on the label. So if you live in one of those states you can be cited by state or local law enforcement for exceeding the capacity on the label. Also your insurance company may take a dim view of exceeding the capacities. But the US Coast Guard cannot cite you for exceeding the label capacities. However, if in the judgment of the boarding officer your boat is overloaded, he/she can cite you for negligent operation which is a much more serious offense, but they can only use the capacity as a factor in that decision (for instance it says 4 and you have 8) and you would have to have been acting in a negligent manner to be boarded." http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/BoatCapacityVSAvailableSeating.pdf
http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/safeloading.pdf

If you are found guilty of grossly overloading your boat (not just the violating the capacity number), you will be cited for negligent operation or grossly negligent operation. Which seems to be up to $5,000 fine and/or year in jail. Grossly negligent is a class A misdemeanor.
http://law.justia.com/codes/us/title46/46usc2302.html
http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/177-09-penalties-19763286


I'm still looking for a list of states that can cite you for purely going over the capacity limit... too much work for a Sunday...

schuylski
02-28-2011, 12:10 AM
Ha- so true. Came across strong but was meant more for anyone wondering about the rules than for trying to tell you how to set up your boat. I mean... it is your boat.