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rdlangston13
03-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Ok so i have seen on here people commenting on how if you run more than three items off the 5 volt remote turn on you should use a relay. so here is my question. how would this relay be wired in? would you wire the coil in the relay to the 5 volt remote wire on the head unit and then use wire the switch to batter 12v? if the 5 volt remote turn on powerful enough to trip the relay and if supplying the amps with 12v to the remote turn on input too much voltage since they are designed for 5???

Razzman
03-09-2011, 10:47 PM
I just asked Brian this yesterday and he said not to worry about it.

rdlangston13
03-10-2011, 04:57 AM
not to worry about running a relay or not to worry about powering the relay with 5v and sending 12v to the remote turn on on the the amp?

EarmarkMarine
03-10-2011, 09:45 AM
The traces on the turn-on circuit within the source unit are extremely thin. Although the trigger function of each amplifier, line driver or EQ pulls only milliamps, I have personally seen the traces get burned when too many items were stacked. So a limit of three components without need for a relay is a pretty good threshold and guideline. A good horn relay and socket is just a few dollars. Why take the risk?

David
Earmark Marine

rdlangston13
03-10-2011, 01:02 PM
Thanks for the response David but you didn't really answer my question...

philwsailz
03-10-2011, 01:06 PM
The traces on the turn-on circuit within the source unit are extremely thin. Although the trigger function of each amplifier, line driver or EQ pulls only milliamps, I have personally seen the traces get burned when too many items were stacked. So a limit of three components without need for a relay is a pretty good threshold and guideline. A good horn relay and socket is just a few dollars. Why take the risk?

Davidere is a
Earmark Marine

We are in agreement David.


Here is a schematic. The schematic shows two things, both the use of a relay for multiple amp turn-on, AND the use of a relay to tie the head unit power wire to the amp rack power. There are two relays shown as a result. Just look at the right-most relay with the blue wiring for your multiple amps turn-on wiring.

Razzman
03-10-2011, 01:13 PM
Phil, if that's the case why not use something like the PAC TR4 (http://www.pac-audio.com/productDetails.aspx?ProductId=790&CategoryID=31) instead of two seperate relays? $10 at Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/PAC+-+Low-Voltage+Remote+Turn-On+Trigger/9046098.p?id=1218012117328&skuId=9046098&cmp=RMX&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=9046098)

philwsailz
03-10-2011, 01:17 PM
Phil, if that's the case why not use something like the PAC TR4 (http://www.pac-audio.com/productDetails.aspx?ProductId=790&CategoryID=31) instead of two seperate relays? $10 at Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/PAC+-+Low-Voltage+Remote+Turn-On+Trigger/9046098.p?id=1218012117328&skuId=9046098&cmp=RMX&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=9046098)

The schematic is showing two different relays that do two diffferrent things. I could have gone in and edited the pic to just show the remote turn-on wiring, but I had this pic already...


In this schematic, the left relay is unrelated to the turn-on...

philwsailz
03-10-2011, 01:20 PM
Here is the cleaned up pic showing just the relay wiring for use of a relay for turning on multiple amps.

EarmarkMarine
03-10-2011, 01:29 PM
Just remember that poles 85 and 86 are the trigger or control circuit. There is no real polarity here. Just a ground and a trigger voltage.
Poles 30 and 87 make up the workload circuit. 87 is latched when energized and 87a is in contact when at rest. Technically, 30 should be the incoming for less switching noise if it makes a difference.
So its exactly like Phil drew it up.
Hope that's what you were referring to.

David
Earmark Marine

rdlangston13
03-10-2011, 08:56 PM
now that helps. just making sure supplying 12Vs to the amps where a 5v turn on is supposed to go is not going to hurt anything. thanks guys

philwsailz
03-11-2011, 10:23 AM
now that helps. just making sure supplying 12Vs to the amps where a 5v turn on is supposed to go is not going to hurt anything. thanks guys

Rd-

Not quite sure where the 5-volts entered the topic. All AFM, (aftermarket) head units provide a +12v trigger; that is standard. Similarly, AFM amps use +12v as the turn-on control.

12 volts works properly, so you will be good.

Phil
Kicker

Razzman
03-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Phil, can you clarify which relay one would use for this? In looking I noticed many different configurations and amp ratings.

newty
03-11-2011, 12:10 PM
In the case of your boat, why not just wire it to switched power supply from the dash that powers your deck? You flip the switch... everything is powered.

Razzman
03-11-2011, 12:44 PM
In the case of your boat, why not just wire it to switched power supply from the dash that powers your deck? You flip the switch... everything is powered.

Mine or the OP's? Mine is that way now and works fine. The only reason I got involved in this is I'm adding a third amp to the mix. So i'll be running three amps off of the remote turn on lead. Some say it's not an issue, some do, due to lead size if i'm understanding this correctly.

Hoopskier
03-11-2011, 12:59 PM
In the case of your boat, why not just wire it to switched power supply from the dash that powers your deck? You flip the switch... everything is powered.

This, keep it simple.

rdlangston13
03-11-2011, 03:55 PM
when i used to work at best buy during my training for the install bay i was always told that blue remote turn on wire was 5V. so that is what i am basing this on, i never tested it to verify though but i was always told 5V so that is what i was going off of

mmandley
03-11-2011, 08:22 PM
I ran my 3 Exiles on 1 remote turn on lead right off my deck and had no issues.

I never herd sounds threw the amps or deck, never popped a fuse or anything.

Some people want to run Aux fans for the amps off the remote turn on and this i wouldn't do with my 3 amp set up but i can say there was no issues running my 3 amps on the same power on line.

rdlangston13
03-11-2011, 09:44 PM
well they said that three was the limit but i have 4. 3 amps and my WS420

EarmarkMarine
03-11-2011, 10:32 PM
Use a standard automotive Bosch or similar 30 amp horn relay. Any place that does auto alarms uses a ton of them and any autoparts store will have them.
On a continuous basis you could go up to 10 amps draw on a 30 amp relay. That would be a serious number of turn-on circuits, fans, LEDs and more.

David
Earmark Marine

Brianinpdx
03-11-2011, 11:41 PM
Rd - just scanning this thread today...

My rule of thumb is if you are running 3 devices, I dont typically suggest relays be put in place. Going 4 and above, its a good idea for the reasons mentioned even though todays modern decks usually have buffered tigger.

And also, yes, I think the +5V your talking to is actually +12V. Maybe you where thinking about the elusive 5V audio outputs decks sometimes claim.

If you need additional help, give me a call. You have my digits.

Cheers

-Brian
Exile Audio

newty
03-11-2011, 11:58 PM
Mine or the OP's? Mine is that way now and works fine. The only reason I got involved in this is I'm adding a third amp to the mix. So i'll be running three amps off of the remote turn on lead. Some say it's not an issue, some do, due to lead size if i'm understanding this correctly.

Sorry Razz, op's
Not sure why people are so worried about relays in boats w/ stereo switches.
12v lead is a 12v lead.

EarmarkMarine
03-12-2011, 08:25 AM
Sure, if you are running three amps, an EQ and a fan or two then a relay is essential. As stated from the beginning, if its just a couple of amplifiers then its pointless. Also, many people run their remote control illumination off the source unit which makes a relay an absolute. In days of old the source unit used the on/off switch to pass the voltage. It could be an internal relay. Or, the voltage could be from a small transistor just like an output driver on an alarm.
But in any case, if you pass a certain amperage draw threshold, you should protect your source unit. Regardless of the circuit type its not intended for passing any degree of current.

David
Earmark Marine

EarmarkMarine
03-12-2011, 08:28 AM
Btw, outboard switches can't replace a source unit trigger because the turn-on/off sequence and delays are crucial to not having turn-on/off noise and thumps.

David
Earmark Marine

philwsailz
03-14-2011, 12:20 PM
Btw, outboard switches can't replace a source unit trigger because the turn-on/off sequence and delays are crucial to not having turn-on/off noise and thumps.

David
Earmark Marine

Solid point often overlooked David. There is an order for things to be turned on and shut down. The head unit often takes this into account. Sometimes amps have muting circuits also, but to have an amp fully on when the head unit goes off can result in a very nasty pop.

In my pro sound career, we had the necessary habit of turning all Front-of-house electronics on first. This included the console, EQ's compressors, effects, any recording gear, etc. After all that stuff was on, then we could call, (or run) to the stage and turn the amps on.

At the end of the show, the amps were the first things turned off, ALWAYS. If someone shut down a piece of gear out front at the engineers desk with the amps still on, the huge pop from such a screw up can be ear shattering. It could take out a couple thousand dollars worth of HF compression drivers in that case too.

Bringing it back to the mobile audio world, you run less risk of damaging something if you use the turn-on circuitry provided by the stereo electronics. Use the blue turn-on lead either directly or with a relay instead of taking the amp's turn-on lead to the key switch. It will almost always be better.

Phil
Kicker

newty
03-14-2011, 08:17 PM
Good info to know. Thanks guys.