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View Full Version : Getting out of the water with a 2 wheel drive



05mobiusxlv
01-17-2005, 05:35 AM
hey, i just ordered an 05 xlv, i was just woundering if it is possibe to get this boat pulled out of the water with a 2 wheel drive f-150. I have seen a lot of trucks spin the rear tires all the way up the ramp (even when the ramp is not wet) with lighter boats then this? Is it possible, or should i not take any chances.

james yarosz
01-17-2005, 04:44 PM
I pull my Outback LS with a 4 by 4 F150,but I have never had to put it in 4 wheel drive to get up the ramp.:)

Keaton
01-17-2005, 05:06 PM
I pull my mobiusV out with a 2WD chevy and it works fine. On some ramps the tires do spin but I just ease it out and try not to break the tires loose. Once you start that spin you need to stop and try it again real slow. You dont want the tires to spin. You also get crap all over your boat when you let the tires spin. I see people doing that all the time and they will be throwing rocks and algea all over the boat. It also helps to have a good set of tires on your truck to grip the ramp.

01-18-2005, 05:19 AM
I don't think it will normally be a problem. Most people I've seen that have problems tend to have them because they think the harder the put the accelerator down the better off they'll be. Just ease into it and don't break the tires loose. If you do, just stop and start again. Don't be one of those guys that turns one of his rear tires into smoke all the way up the ramp.

If your truck has a limited slip rear end it might help and might not. From my understanding, if one tire completely loses traction with a limited slip, then the differential will not lock up. You could always spend the cash and put an electronic locker differential in the rear if it turns out to be a big problem. Or a cheap solution would be just to carry a bucket of sand in the back of the truck in case the ramp gets really slick.

01-18-2005, 05:20 AM
I don't think it will normally be a problem. Most people I've seen that have problems tend to have them because they think the harder the put the accelerator down the better off they'll be. Just ease into it and don't break the tires loose. If you do, just stop and start again. Don't be one of those guys that turns one of his rear tires into smoke all the way up the ramp.

If your truck has a limited slip rear end it might help and might not. From my understanding, if one tire completely loses traction with a limited slip, then the differential will not lock up. You could always spend the cash and put an electronic locker differential in the rear if it turns out to be a big problem. Or a cheap solution would be just to carry a bucket of sand in the back of the truck in case the ramp gets really slick.

lowdrag
01-18-2005, 05:20 AM
I don't think it will normally be a problem. Most people I've seen that have problems tend to have them because they think the harder the put the accelerator down the better off they'll be. Just ease into it and don't break the tires loose. If you do, just stop and start again. Don't be one of those guys that turns one of his rear tires into smoke all the way up the ramp.

If your truck has a limited slip rear end it might help and might not. From my understanding, if one tire completely loses traction with a limited slip, then the differential will not lock up. You could always spend the cash and put an electronic locker differential in the rear if it turns out to be a big problem. Or a cheap solution would be just to carry a bucket of sand in the back of the truck in case the ramp gets really slick.

yzblue125
01-18-2005, 01:38 PM
i pull my moomba lsv gravity game fine with a 1989 2 door ford festiva with a towing package. not really

noneya
01-19-2005, 09:55 AM
Shouldnt havea problem, I've never had 4WD and pulled boats for years. If you do start to spin the tires, let off on the gas, get your crew to sit in the bed of the truck or stand on the bumper.

Woopededoo
01-22-2005, 10:03 PM
I pull my outback with a f150 v8 auto, with the limited slip rear-end. I have seen it many times where trucks without the LSD's will spin and have a hard time going up the ramp. If you dont get a 4X4 definitly get the LSD rear-end. Its also wise to not smash the gas when pullling it out of the water, you will slip. We normally just push the button for "over-drive off" on our f150 and it pulls up the ramp without any problems. I also helps if you dont put you back wheels in the water.

BensonWdby
01-24-2005, 08:00 PM
I pulled with 2wd Caravan for a bit until I trashed the tranny. Biggest problem is that many of our ramps have concrete tiles and they all seem to end about 4 inches shorter than I need. So the trailer drops of the end of a 6 inch square curb. So pulling out, the first movement of the trailer is straight up over the curb.

I personally would never pull anything this heavy without 4WD.

Dave

Shoemaker Mobius
01-26-2005, 12:09 PM
I pull my 2004 Mobius LSV with a 2002 Ford Explorer 2wd, 6-cylinder. So far I have never even spun the tires.

clark
01-26-2005, 01:25 PM
I am glad to here that. I have a Chevy Silverado and my wife has a Chevy TrailerBlazer (6 cyl) and we were wondering if it would pull it OK back and forth to the lake. We live about 65 miles from the lake house.

02-03-2005, 10:48 PM
I would side with Ed G. Selection of two vehicle, especially 2WD versus 4WD, occupies a large part of the message content in the Usenet newsgroup "rec.boats". Actually, the collective responses here are fairly representative of what you will find on that group with a few hours of reading. Basically: "Under ideal conditions, 2WD MIGHT suffice".

What are ideal conditions? Let's see...
- "known good" launch -- paved, correct incline, no drop-off
- GOOD 2WD truck (enough weight, good tires, see Woopededoo's note on limited slip)
- skilled driver :-)
- automatic transmission (not essential if you are skilled, but saves clutches)
- fallbacks available (other trucks around to help, 500lbs of friends to hop in back)

If you can count on these conditions holding true, you can of course save yourself a lot of money by sticking with your current 2WD... for now. However, it would be prudent to plan for a 4WD purchase in the next 2-3 years. Why? It is because you just purchased a really nice fun boat that is also:
- nearly 5000lbs with trailer -- other replies here are for models 1000lbs lighter
- an open invitation to many cottages where you were scarcely welcome before!

As you could well imagine, it would be a poor start to the day to bring this fine boat and not be able to launch it (or to have the boat pull your truck into the water). It would be a worse end to the day to not be able to load the boat to take it home.

Picture this: "Hey, bring your boat to the cottage this weekend. Yeah, there is a good launch nearby. I have seen people using it. It's fine." Now, this statement is quite possibly from someone who is not "on the program" regarding a 5000lb boat/trailer. He may have seen a station wagon pull a 1500lb ski boat from the water in 1992 and thought that it was the same operation. It is not. You will get there and find that the "ramp" is gravel, grass, dirt or mud. Oh yeah, its incline is so little that you have to get at least one truck axle well into the water, or so steep that you wonder if 2WD would get out of it with NO trailer in tow. Extra bonus: there is a hidden rock or drop-off in the water that hooks your trailer tire(s). There is no decent chance of getting help from another truck nearby. You do not find out this objective information until you are there and committed. You realise that your usual "known good" launch is a sweet luxury.

Now, you can have a 4WD tow vehicle either before or after this happens the first time. It is a sure bet that you will have one before it happens a second time! You'll be highly motivated to buy yourself some "doubt removal".

Here is my checklist for buying a tow vehicle with "doubt removal":
- 4WD, with low range available
- Automatic transmission
- Sufficient power and torque for towing on hilly highway
- All-terrain tires (e.g. Michelin LTX A/T or Toyo Open Country A/T)
- Good handling while towing
- Sufficient clearance for those shallow ramps (9+ inches)
- Class III hitch or better (preferably load-balancing)
- Manufacturer's specs support the job via boat/trailer weight and gross vehicle weight
- Google search finds forum support for towing this much weight

4WD comes in several flavours: part-time, full-time, various allegedly "smart" AWD. Take your pick. They are all like night and day compared to 2WD at a mediocre ramp.

Automatic transmission does not just help you avoid frequent clutch replacement. It is also much easier to make a lot of small vehicle movements, such as when positioning for trailer hook-up. Yes, you lose some power at highway speeds compared to a manual transmission. Most boaters who trailer a lot have automatic transmissions, and that's on purpose.

What is sufficient power? Well, that is subjective. If you can maintain speed somwehere close to the limit on the hills in your territory, that should be fine. Some people are of the mindset that they should have such an excess of power that the truck scarcely seems to feel it, even at high speed while going up a mountainside. Okay, more power to them. I would rather get better mileage with a somewhat lesser engine during the 99% of the time that I'm unloaded than go a bit faster for the few minutes out of the year when towing uphill. Slowing down briefly doesn't negate "doubt removal".

I am at a crossroads myself. My Toyota 4Runner with 3.4L V6 (183HP, 217ft-lbs) has been great for towing my old Invader, which is perhaps 2800lbs with trailer. I REALLY like the big tires and 11" clearance. I expect it to struggle greatly while towing the XLV that I am buying. Toyota now has a V8 4Runner. However, I want to wait for the gasoline/electric hybrid 4Runner, which is presently rumoured to be in the works for a couple of years from now. I'll probably get a rear suspension upgrade (free offer from Toyota) and V6 supercharger (from Toyota Racing Division, definitely not free, but way cheaper than a new truck) put on my current truck and stick with it for now.

I won't recommend for a particular brand in general, but I will recommend avoiding the mid-size (used to be "small") trucks from the North American manufacturers. I did my research for two such purchases in the last 8 years, and found that GMC, Ford and Chrysler all had some "Achilles heel" in their mid-size offerings for the purpose of such towing. However, there are lots of good trucks on the market, new or old, cheap or dear, that will do the job well. Until then, happy boating!

Ian

Ian Brantford
02-04-2005, 09:50 PM
Hey, can anyone see either of my earlier replies when reading this thread? The topic's entry on the "General Chat" listing page shows that there was a posting yesterday (by "Guest"). However, I do not see any articles since Jan 26 2005 when reading the thread. I only see my second try in the thread summary now, while replying.

Thanks,
Ian

smokedog2
02-04-2005, 09:55 PM
I see one post dated 2/4/5 by you. I see no Guest posts

SD2

Ian Brantford
02-07-2005, 12:04 AM
Thanks, smokedog2. Here is my posting (3rd time's the charm!)...

I would side with Ed G. Selection of tow vehicle, especially 2WD versus 4WD, occupies a large part of the message content in the Usenet newsgroup "rec.boats" over the years. Actually, the collective responses here are fairly representative of what you will find on that group with a few hours of reading. Basically: "Under ideal conditions, 2WD MIGHT suffice".

What are ideal conditions? Let's see...
- "known good" launch -- paved, correct incline, no drop-off
- GOOD 2WD truck (enough weight, good tires, see Woopededoo's note on limited slip)
- skilled driver :-)
- automatic transmission (not essential if you are skilled, but saves clutches and wheel spin)
- fallbacks available (other trucks around to help, 500lbs of friends to hop in back)

If you can count on these conditions holding true, you can of course save yourself a lot of money by sticking with your current 2WD... for now. However, it would be prudent to plan for a 4WD purchase in the next 2-3 years. Why? It is because you just purchased a really nice fun boat that is also:
- nearly 5000lbs with trailer -- other replies here are for models 1000lbs lighter
- an open invitation to many cottages where you were scarcely welcome before!

As you could well imagine, it would be a poor start to the day to bring this fine boat and not be able to launch it (or to have the boat pull your truck into the water). It would be a worse end to the day to not be able to load the boat to take it home.

Picture this: "Hey, bring your boat to the cottage this weekend. Yeah, there is a good launch nearby. I have seen people using it. It's fine." Now, this statement is quite possibly from someone who is not "on the program" regarding a 5000lb boat/trailer. He may have seen a station wagon pull a 1500lb ski boat from the water in 1992 and thought that it was the same operation. It is not. You will get there and find that the "ramp" is gravel, grass, dirt or mud. Oh yeah, its incline is so little that you have to get at least one truck axle well into the water, or so steep that you wonder if 2WD would get out of it with NO trailer in tow. Extra bonus: there is a hidden rock or drop-off in the water that hooks your trailer tire(s). There is no decent chance of getting help from another truck nearby. You do not find out this objective information until you are there and committed. You realise that your usual "known good" launch is a sweet luxury.

Now, you can have a 4WD tow vehicle either before or after this happens the first time. It is a sure bet that you will have one before it happens a second time! You'll be highly motivated to buy yourself some "doubt removal".

Here is my checklist for buying a tow vehicle with "doubt removal":
- 4WD, with low range available
- Automatic transmission
- Sufficient power and torque for towing on hilly highway
- All-terrain tires (e.g. Michelin LTX A/T or Toyo Open Country A/T)
- Good handling while towing
- Sufficient clearance for those shallow ramps (9+ inches)
- Class III hitch or better (preferably load-balancing)
- Manufacturer's specs support the job via boat/trailer weight and gross vehicle weight
- Google search finds forum support for towing this much weight

4WD comes in several flavours: part-time, full-time, various allegedly "smart" AWD. Take your pick. They are all like night and day compared to 2WD at a mediocre ramp.

Automatic transmission does not just help you avoid frequent clutch replacement. It is also much easier to make a lot of small vehicle movements, such as when positioning for trailer hook-up. Yes, you lose some power at highway speeds compared to a manual transmission. Most boaters who trailer a lot have automatic transmissions, and that's on purpose.

What is sufficient power? Well, that is subjective. If you can maintain speed somwehere close to the limit on the hills in your territory, that should be fine. Some people are of the mindset that they should have such an excess of power that the truck scarcely seems to feel it, even at high speed while going up a mountainside. Okay, more power to them. I would rather get better mileage with a somewhat lesser engine during the 99% of the time that I'm unloaded than go a bit faster for the few minutes out of the year when towing uphill. Slowing down briefly doesn't negate "doubt removal".

I am at a crossroads myself. My Toyota 4Runner with 3.4L V6 (183HP, 217ft-lbs) has been great for towing my old Invader, which is perhaps 2800lbs with trailer. I REALLY like the big tires and 11" clearance. I expect it to struggle greatly while towing the XLV that I am buying. Toyota now has a V8 4Runner. However, I want to wait for the gasoline/electric hybrid 4Runner, which is presently rumoured to be in the works for a couple of years from now. I'll probably get a rear suspension upgrade (free offer from Toyota) and V6 supercharger (from Toyota Racing Division, definitely not free, but way cheaper than a new truck) put on my current truck and stick with it for now.

I won't recommend for a particular brand in general, but I will recommend avoiding the mid-size (used to be "small") trucks from the North American manufacturers. I did my research for two such purchases in the last 8 years, and found that GMC, Ford and Chrysler all had some "Achilles heel" in their mid-size offerings for the purpose of such towing. However, there are lots of good trucks on the market, new or old, cheap or dear, that will do the job well. Until then, happy boating!

Ian

lowdrag
02-07-2005, 03:05 AM
Good info. Have to disagree with the part about mid sized American trucks. I've got an '02 Ranger 4wd. 5600 lb. towing capacity. I've pulled my boat with it plenty of times and it does a great job. You almost forget the boat is there. I would definitely go full size for the XLV, but for the rest of the Moomba line, I don't think you'll have many issues with the mid size.

smokedog2
02-07-2005, 01:05 PM
Boy, I thought I was long winded. Great info on why you need $x$.

I agree but most folks need the lesson themselves. This is a true story, I watched waiting for the car driver to come back to the dock. A guy had a 2x4 truck and could not get out, he was clearly pissed, slamming doors etc. and a guy in a tow truck hooked up to him to help pull the boat out. He gets a good yank but the boat owner in his exasperation forgot to tie the boat down. The whole boat crashes to the ground a foot from the waterline. The tow truck then got the boat onto the trailer winching it up and sliding the trailer under. It was an old boat but still painful to watch.

Lots of people tow with 2 wheel drive and there are a lot of tricks, sand/salt, go in at an angle etc..

One desperate approach - unhook the trailer, lower the front wheel, run a chain between the boat and vehicle so that the wheels are level and dry, pull VERY slowly (if steep, block the trailer tires or you will be fishing for your trailer). Hope the front wheel does not collapse since you WILL be pulling down on it due to the angles (note this is the action of a desperate late season duck hunter with $x$ on a totally iced very steep and deep river ramp (the only one still open on the river) and no hope of pulling the boat elsewhere. That or lose the boat, I have no idea if it would work with a #3,000 boat, I do not plan to find out, thatís why I have $x$).

The preceding story is exhibit A of the theory that four wheel drive simply allows you to get stucker, further from help.

Laugh all you want, if you boat, you will one day resemble one of the above stories yourself.

SD2

Oh, and the price of this boat so far is Christmas bling bling, storage building, dinner out nearly every weekend, boat, and now my wife wants a new car.

I should have bought a Supra.