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DOCDRS
05-15-2011, 02:31 PM
I'm getting some kicker hlcd's and wondering if a zx 550.2 would be a good amp to power them. Right now I have a zx 200.2 and a zx700.5 to power my 6 boat speakers, my sub , and my 4 tower speakers.

jmvotto
05-15-2011, 02:58 PM
I have the zx450.2 powering a pair of krypt Hlcds should be fine..

DOCDRS
05-15-2011, 03:14 PM
what should I expect to pay for something like this or that?

MLA
05-15-2011, 04:32 PM
Power wise, the zx550.2 is a good choice for both the basic 4-pod setup (205w x 2) and the "6-Pack" setup with the extra mids (275w x 2). Just be aware that the zx550 is not a current production amp, so be cautious about where you buy from if its sold as "new".

Another good choice would be the IX500.4 for the 4-pod setup and a pair of IX500.4 if you are going with the 6-pod setup. Also, for the 6-pod setup, a pair of zx300.1's and the KX2 External Crossover will deliver 300W RMS to each side.

jmvotto
05-15-2011, 07:02 PM
what should I expect to pay for something like this or that?

I got my 450/2 from mmandley:D so new or refurbed i think are in the 175 to 210 range on the internet/ebay etc.

Razzman
05-15-2011, 07:46 PM
Pm Phil White @ Kicker and ask him, he'll set you straight as to your best bet.

c.rix
05-15-2011, 08:45 PM
I just installed my Kicker Hlcd's this weekend you will be happy !!!

Because I already had the amp I used a kicker 350.4 it puts out 175 per channel in bridged mode I am only running the 2 mids if I upgrade to 4 I will need a new amp

For your set up if you are planning on going with the 2 tweets and 4 mids the 650.4 bridged would be a good choice 320 watts per channel leaving some head room even for the 6 speaker setup

DOCDRS
05-15-2011, 09:03 PM
I just installed my Kicker Hlcd's this weekend you will be happy !!!

Because I already had the amp I used a kicker 350.4 it puts out 175 per channel in bridged mode I am only running the 2 mids if I upgrade to 4 I will need a new amp

For your set up if you are planning on going with the 2 tweets and 4 mids the 650.4 bridged would be a good choice 320 watts per channel leaving some head room even for the 6 speaker setup

I'm quite green on this , I'm just going to swap out the 4 tower speakers for the 4 or pair of hlcd's. With the kickers are you saying 2 horns and 2 mids? Right now I guess there are the little side tweeters off the speakers

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4839412920_d123044de2_z.jpg

c.rix
05-15-2011, 09:25 PM
The hlcd's are basically 1 pair of speakers

The regular silver speaker is the mid and the all black it the tweeter

Kinda like how your set up is, but the tweeter takes its own speaker can

Then you can add another pair of mid's wired parallel having 6 cans total and have the functionality of 2 pair of hlcd's just remember if you do that you need to move the crossover wire to +6 position (will make more sense when you get your speakers and manual)

MLA
05-15-2011, 09:27 PM
I just installed my Kicker Hlcd's this weekend you will be happy !!!

Because I already had the amp I used a kicker 350.4 it puts out 175 per channel in bridged mode I am only running the 2 mids if I upgrade to 4 I will need a new amp

The zx350.4 is delivering 175W to each side when in bridge mode, not 175W per chnl (two chnls wired together = bridge mode). If you wanted to add the extra mids, just add a new zx350.4 for the mids and run it in 2 chnl mode also.


For your set up if you are planning on going with the 2 tweets and 4 mids the 650.4 bridged would be a good choice 320 watts per channel leaving some head room even for the 6 speaker setup

The zx650.4 will not run the 6-Pack bridged. You could run each horn/mid on a chnl, then wire the extra mids each on the remaining 2 chnls. I think its 120W x 4 @ 4 ohm for the zx650.4.

MLA
05-15-2011, 09:32 PM
I'm quite green on this , I'm just going to swap out the 4 tower speakers for the 4 or pair of hlcd's. With the kickers are you saying 2 horns and 2 mids? Right now I guess there are the little side tweeters off the speakers

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4839412920_d123044de2_z.jpg

What you have now is 2 pair of components: 2 mid-bass drivers and 2 tweeters.

The KM6500.2 setup comes with 2 6.5" mid-bass drivers and 2 HLCD horns. A mid and a horn get wired together on each side. In your case, the existing tweeter will become a dummy. its a great place to install a puck style LED.

DOCDRS
05-15-2011, 09:39 PM
So there is no point to keeping my little side tweeters? sorry for asking stupid ? have not taken the grills off to see what there really is inside the cans. The hlcd's are prob about 2 weeks away. just trying to figure if and what kind of amp I should get. would my zx 250.2 be driving these tower speakers right now? boat is 3 hours away so I can't go out n check and never really took note when I installed my ws420

MLA
05-15-2011, 09:58 PM
So there is no point to keeping my little side tweeters? sorry for asking stupid ? have not taken the grills off to see what there really is inside the cans. The hlcd's are prob about 2 weeks away. just trying to figure if and what kind of amp I should get. would my zx 250.2 be driving these tower speakers right now? boat is 3 hours away so I can't go out n check and never really took note when I installed my ws420

Anything wired up in those cans right now, will not be needed when you install the new KM6500.2's. I would just leave the tweeters be, or find some LED lights to drop in, but that would require another set of binding posts and more wire to be run up the tower.

The zx250 will not do the KM6500.2 justice. That amp will only deliver 85W to each side. You really, really, really need to invest in another that that will deliver adequate power to the KM6500.2

New Guy
05-16-2011, 03:01 PM
I'm currently running the 6500.2's on a 650.4 with each wired to there own channel. The mids to the rear and the horns to the front. This has allowed be to balance the amps accordingly and I have been really happy with this setup.

If there is a better way to do it please let me know.

Thanks,
Mark

mcdye
05-16-2011, 08:02 PM
I bet you can take the tweeter housing off. I have newer roswell speaker bar w/ phoenix audio speakers and the tweeter house is not there and there is a rubber plug there where they would go. I am interested in what your doing. I would like some hcld but want to keep the speaker bar.

MLA
05-16-2011, 08:11 PM
I bet you can take the tweeter housing off. I have newer roswell speaker bar w/ phoenix audio speakers and the tweeter house is not there and there is a rubber plug there where they would go. I am interested in what your doing. I would like some hcld but want to keep the speaker bar.

Thats the exact application the Kicker KM6500.2 is designed for. :cool:

EarmarkMarine
05-16-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm an advocate of Class D amplifiers. Kicker has fullrange Class D, so does Alpine and so does JL Audio. You can drive a single pair of KM6500.2 for as little as $250 with Class D power. Here are a few of the advantages.
A Class D amplifier is 60 percent more efficient than a Class AB amplifier. To put that into a little perspective consider this.
A Class AB amplifier will typically generate 250 percent more heat from the same supply current as compared to a Class D. And, a Class AB will typically generate 400 percent more heat relating to the identical output power as compared to a Class D.
A Class D amplifier will produce 60 percent more output power than a Class AB amplifier with the same available current.
A Class D amplifier will deliver 60 percent more play time at rest over a Class AB amplifier at the same output power with the same battery reserves. Or, the Class D amplifier will not cycle the batteries as deeply as a Class AB amplifier at the same output over the same duration. Shallower cycles promote extended battery longevity, even for deep cycle batteries.
Class AB amplifiers directly increase the current draw on the alternator and additionally increase the alternator draw due to the greater depletion of the batteries. A greater current draw on the alternator results in more internal alternator resistance which commands more horsepower. Alternators also run hotter with a full system of Class AB amplifiers than a full system of Class D amplifiers.
Class AB amplifiers consume substantially more current resulting in an increased voltage sag. Unregulated amplifiers drop in output power as the voltage decreases. For example, an unregulated amplifier that is rated at 14.4volts may drop 25 percent of its power as the voltage supply drops to 12.5 volts and the power loss increases as the voltage continues to fall.
Makes the small increase in admission cost of Class D seem minor for all the energy efficiency and performance advantages. Lower battery costs. Less fuel consumption. No need for alternator upgrades even on large systems. MUCH less waste do to heat generation. Higher power levels under adverse conditions. Better audio performance with less voltage sag. Longer play time at rest. Friendlier to the boat electronics.

David
Earmark Marine

DOCDRS
05-16-2011, 11:00 PM
so whick kicker amps would fall into the class d category?

DOCDRS
05-16-2011, 11:00 PM
so which kicker amps would fall into the class d category?

brain_rinse
05-16-2011, 11:04 PM
I'm an advocate of Class D amplifiers. Kicker has fullrange Class D, so does Alpine and so does JL Audio. You can drive a single pair of KM6500.2 for as little as $250 with Class D power. Here are a few of the advantages.
A Class D amplifier is 60 percent more efficient than a Class AB amplifier. To put that into a little perspective consider this.
A Class AB amplifier will typically generate 250 percent more heat from the same supply current as compared to a Class D. And, a Class AB will typically generate 400 percent more heat relating to the identical output power as compared to a Class D.
A Class D amplifier will produce 60 percent more output power than a Class AB amplifier with the same available current.
A Class D amplifier will deliver 60 percent more play time at rest over a Class AB amplifier at the same output power with the same battery reserves. Or, the Class D amplifier will not cycle the batteries as deeply as a Class AB amplifier at the same output over the same duration. Shallower cycles promote extended battery longevity, even for deep cycle batteries.
Class AB amplifiers directly increase the current draw on the alternator and additionally increase the alternator draw due to the greater depletion of the batteries. A greater current draw on the alternator results in more internal alternator resistance which commands more horsepower. Alternators also run hotter with a full system of Class AB amplifiers than a full system of Class D amplifiers.
Class AB amplifiers consume substantially more current resulting in an increased voltage sag. Unregulated amplifiers drop in output power as the voltage decreases. For example, an unregulated amplifier that is rated at 14.4volts may drop 25 percent of its power as the voltage supply drops to 12.5 volts and the power loss increases as the voltage continues to fall.
Makes the small increase in admission cost of Class D seem minor for all the energy efficiency and performance advantages. Lower battery costs. Less fuel consumption. No need for alternator upgrades even on large systems. MUCH less waste do to heat generation. Higher power levels under adverse conditions. Better audio performance with less voltage sag. Longer play time at rest. Friendlier to the boat electronics.

David
Earmark Marine
Thanks for this post, David. I'll summarize: Class D rocks!

brain_rinse
05-16-2011, 11:04 PM
so which kicker amps would fall into the class d category?
Their IX line

http://www.kicker.com/ix_amplifiers

MLA
05-16-2011, 11:14 PM
so which kicker amps would fall into the class d category?

The IX line I mentioned on page one. The IX500.2 is good power the 4 or 6 pod KM6500.2 setup. The IX500.4 is awesome power for the 4 pod setup and a pair of IX500.4's for the "6-Pack".

deafgoose
05-16-2011, 11:51 PM
ZX are also class D

http://www.kicker.com/ZX_Amplifiers

brain_rinse
05-17-2011, 12:01 AM
ZX are also class D

http://www.kicker.com/ZX_Amplifiers
I think the ZX mono amps are class D, and I know the sub channel are on their 5 channels are as well. Pretty sure the stereo and multi-channel amps are class A/B though.

MLA
05-17-2011, 12:21 AM
I think the ZX mono amps are class D, and I know the sub channel are on their 5 channels are as well. Pretty sure the stereo and multi-channel amps are class A/B though.

Correct. Most of the zx mono's are Class-D, but not all and none of the stereo/multi-chnl full-range zx amps are Class-D. The Zx/ZXM 700.5 is a 5 chnl Hybrid Class AB full-range and Class-D.

DOCDRS
05-17-2011, 01:01 AM
thanks for all the info, i'm learning, so a kicker ix500.4 would do me?

bbuhtz
05-17-2011, 09:28 AM
thanks for all the info, i'm learning, so a kicker ix500.4 would do me?


DO IT! ;)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b323/extreme360/KGrHqNlsE2FLOWwqjBNjRHIh3DQ0_3.jpg

philwsailz
05-17-2011, 10:07 AM
Hey guys!

Mike at MLA has shared pretty much the two hot ticket setups usign current amps. Let me reiterate:

For a single set of KM6500.2 components, (2 mids, 2 horns) witha power handling of 200 watts RMS your options are:

single ZXM450.2 (class A/B) 150 watts per side
single IX500.2 (full range Class D) 150 watts per side
single IX500.4 (full range Class D) bridged to 250 per side


For the 6-pack, which consists of a KM6500.2 set AND a KM6500 set (4 mids 2 horns) I strongly recommend the following:

pair of IX500.4 each one bridged to give 1000 watts of tower power
pair of ZX300.1 (class A/B) with a KX2 crossover for hi-pass filtering


Or if you want to kick it old school, one of the old 850.2 stereo amplifiers will drive either setup quite well. Just know if you find an old 850.2 is will probably be used or a refurb.

Hope that helps

Phil Kicker

philwsailz
05-17-2011, 10:08 AM
thanks for all the info, i'm learning, so a kicker ix500.4 would do me?

That is what I am running on my set of KM6500.2... :D

GO for it

Phil
Kicker

DOCDRS
05-17-2011, 04:39 PM
hey phil , how hard is it to swap these into a 09 roswell speaker light bar as in the above pic. I've heard there is no lip or something just the back can center screw. Boat is far away so can't just go out and look at it.
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/docdrs/speakers.jpg

EarmarkMarine
05-17-2011, 08:35 PM
DOCDRS,
There are several issues with those particular Roswell pods.
First, the plastic interior mounting ring needs to have the I.D. enlarged.
Second, the ring is held in place with a 'V' shaped strap that extends to and is mounted to the nose of the pod. A deep horn and rear-mounted crossover is likely to interfere with the tapered bracket.
Also, this mounting arrangement isn't really designed to facilitate anything more substantial than standard coaxials.
I would either replace the existing interior mounting rings with new HDPE ones that use set screws around the perimeter of the pods for mounting
or
I would glue and seal in place a couple of 1/8-inch thick aluminum rings at the interior face of the pods.
In either case I would have a stable foundation for my new HLCDs and do away with the light duty bracketry inside.

David
Earmark Marine

DOCDRS
05-17-2011, 11:48 PM
DOCDRS,
There are several issues with those particular Roswell pods.
First, the plastic interior mounting ring needs to have the I.D. enlarged.
Second, the ring is held in place with a 'V' shaped strap that extends to and is mounted to the nose of the pod. A deep horn and rear-mounted crossover is likely to interfere with the tapered bracket.
Also, this mounting arrangement isn't really designed to facilitate anything more substantial than standard coaxials.
I would either replace the existing interior mounting rings with new HDPE ones that use set screws around the perimeter of the pods for mounting
or
I would glue and seal in place a couple of 1/8-inch thick aluminum rings at the interior face of the pods.
In either case I would have a stable foundation for my new HLCDs and do away with the light duty bracketry inside.

David
Earmark Marine


Going up this weekend , will take one apart and look at it. I think I understand what your saying. I like the roswell bar , just looking for a simple solution to blow me off my skyski for around 700-800 but then maybe i'm dreamin

mcdye
05-23-2011, 12:23 PM
DOCDRS,

Not sure if you made it up to your boat. Here is what my '10 looks like and the rubber cover where the tweeter would go. Keep us updated on conversion to the Kickers.

DOCDRS
05-23-2011, 01:25 PM
DOCDRS,

Not sure if you made it up to your boat. Here is what my '10 looks like and the rubber cover where the tweeter would go. Keep us updated on conversion to the Kickers.

No didn't have time to take apart , too busy installing HSE and new prop and renovating . that bracket looks ok, may have to fab a new one for the horn if it does not clear but I don't see it being an issue