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View Full Version : IDEA THREAD- Your new boat has no ballast.



kaneboats
06-08-2011, 02:38 PM
OK, lots of guys have posted issues with ballast systems, upgrades, fine tuning, etc. I want to pose a question. What if your new boat came with no ballast system at all and you had to start over from scratch? What would you do this time around and WHY???

So, if you want max wake for wakeboarding and money is no option-- say so then say why you would do it your way, etc. and how. Likewise, if you only surf one side and you wanted to keep costs to a minimum- explain the "why" part, then say what you would do.

Please try to keep your thoughts organized and concise. This thread is designed to help others make decisions about what to do with their own ballast systems as they contemplate upgrading, etc. That is the reason the "why" part is so important here.

Lets' see if we get any great ideas out of this.

sandm
06-08-2011, 02:54 PM
not sure what ideas you are looking for, as you are limited to the design of the boat. my wish list would be compartments like mb offers that fill/drain in under a minute, but that's not a reality with skiers products so no reason to talk about it..

If I was designing with an empty boat, I would do the following, but it's not that much different than what most have done already...
1000's in each rear corner, 400 in the center locker as that's all that will fit on my boat. 3 pumps off one intake and a rule drain off each bag.

gives you the max weight for surfing and a solid wake if you have a pro wakeboarder on board.


my .02-skiers gives you a good basic system out of the box, but it's not the biggest you can have, and I'm sure the lawyers are the reason behind that(just like the reason centurion does not offer the enzo sac as a factory option). Nice thing about skiers is that it's plug/play so you can upgrade the bags easily as you see fit and adding multiple pumps is not too far out of reach for diy guys.

deafgoose
06-08-2011, 02:56 PM
It would design it as simple as possible.

3 reversible pumps with 3 seperate thru-hull intakes feeding each ballast bag. I would sitck with 400lb bags for wakeboarding and remove the 400lb bag in the rear locker and replace with a 750lb for surfing.

DONE.

kaneboats
06-08-2011, 02:59 PM
3 pumps off one intake and a rule drain off each bag.


Good thoughts so far. I assume you mean 3 pumps like Rule or Tsunami but a larger intake, perhaps 1" to handle all 3?

deafgoose
06-08-2011, 03:06 PM
Good thoughts so far. I assume you mean 3 pumps like Rule or Tsunami but a larger intake, perhaps 1" to handle all 3?

Rule or Tsunami are not reversible.

It would be a Jabsco ballast puppy or a Johnson Ultra

http://www.wakemakers.com/johnson-ultra-ballast-pump.html
http://www.wakemakers.com/jabsco-ballast-puppy-wakeboard-pump.html

kaneboats
06-08-2011, 03:15 PM
Rule or Tsunami are not reversible.

It would be a Jabsco ballast puppy or a Johnson Ultra

Uh, if you look closely I was replying to sandm, not you. I wanted to clarify what he was saying. Note that he also mentioned drain pumps.

dusty2221
06-08-2011, 03:22 PM
Im planning on a full system redo this winter. So far, what I am thinking is removing the manifold and valve setup and switching to 5 independent Tsunami 1200s to fill from. The 4th will be added for my extra sac that we put on the sunpad while surfing,and the 5th for the extra bow sack that will set on top of the seats when in use. While not in use, the fill and drain hoses will just be tucked away.

I plan on upgrading the stock thru hull to a 1", and adding a secondary 1" thru hull. I haven't quite determined how I want to split the 5 fills between the two, aside from knowing that my starboard 1100 sac and the belly 1180 will not be on the same one. In addition, I plan on adding vents to the 3 main bags, and wye-ing them into the existing drain lines with wye fittings and a check valve. I want all lines to be upgrades to 1", as well as swap the 3/4 bag fittings to the 1" as well.

Again, I haven't gotten it all worked out in my head yet, but these are my basic ideas.

moombadaze
06-08-2011, 03:32 PM
for speed--10 pumps total
5 thru hulls
filler pumps
2-3400 rule for the rear surf sacks-1 each side
3-1200 rule for ski locker, ibs and port under seat bag

5-1200 rules for empting each bag



for ease of use/install
5 reversibles on 5 thruhulls

either above system with 1" hose

KSmith
06-08-2011, 03:46 PM
Localized Gravity Field Manipulation... the only way to go

sandm
06-08-2011, 05:22 PM
ya kane, larger intake and as you described...

I'm thinking rather than adding ballast, how about a refrigeration unit in the center and dual kegs-one import and one domestic on each side. start out wakeboarding and drinking the import. when you have finished that keg, switch to surfside since only one side will be weighted. once that is gone, either pass out or go home. whichever one is easier :)

perfect ballast. show up at the lake with a loaded boat, leave with loaded guests....

kaneboats
06-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Can I invest in your boat company? Wait, no; I want to be in R&D.

brain_rinse
06-09-2011, 03:53 PM
I'm extremely happy with my current Tsunami setup, but if I was starting from scratch I would keep it simple and go with Johnson reversibles. I'd still go with 2 thru-hull intakes with 2 pumps on each.

If I could get really crazy I'd want all the ballast below the floor with a gate system. Pumps really shouldn't be needed to allow water to enter the hull of a floating boat. :)

bergermaister
06-09-2011, 04:22 PM
If out of sight hard tanks were possible then that would be my first vote - especially if you could do gate valves to fill 'em quick, then top them off with a pump. But since we're talking about an "empty" boat and a clean slate I'd say go with the biggest bags available for each compartment or go custom made if the fit isn't right.

For simplicity, speed and cost, T-1200 pumps on each bag to fill and drain. No more than 2 pumps per thru-hull inlet so manifolds would be small. Shared lines for vent and drain out to a single thru hull from each bag to cut down on the amount of holes on the sides of the boat. All 1" lines.

I vote for aerator over reversible pumps as it is easier to see when the bags are done draining without having to open compartments, I think they're faster and quieter, for lower maintenance and lower cost.

Vented loops on the fill lines, one way valves for the vent lines, no sprinkler valves or anything kinky.

Hey wait a minute - This is the EXACT setup I just put into my boat!!! :cool:

NCSUmoomba
06-14-2011, 09:02 AM
I guess it depends on what you mean by "new" boat. If you meant "new to me" but still older, it would be really cool to put in a Pure-Vert type system like Calabria, MB, and now Centurion have. No pumps, just gate valves, and flood the entire underfloor volume. It would be a total pain to do. You would have to rip the entire boat apart to make it work.

Otherwise, I would go with the tried and true aereator style pumps. One to fill (with vented loops) on their own thru hull intakes, one to empty, and a vent line, on each sac. I would use Fly High's Pro Series Sacs, since they are hands down the best sacs. I priced out a system for my boat and if I was to do it from scratch, it would run about $1.50 per pound of weight, and I would have about 1000# of ballast that would fill (and drain) in about 4 minutes.

I would also rather use more smaller sacs, than fewer larger ones. Like in the bow for example, I would use two Side Sacs or Tube Sacs, instead of the Intergrated Bow Sac. You would have more control over where the weight is, and the system would fill faster. Also, you could use the Tsunami T800's which are a bit easier to use, since they use standard size hose. A T800 should fill a 400# sac in under 4 minutes, which is not too bad. My buddy has put 1100# rear sacs in his new RZ2 and it takes FOREVER to fill that thing up.

I am not a huge fan of the impeller style pumps. You need a timer to keep from burning the pumps up, and you never really know if the system is empty, since they normally empty out of the fill hose. I have heard of guys adding check valves to make them dump out the side, but that would restrict flow. And since right now, the available ones are either 640 gph or 720 gph, the speed isn't there yet for that much money.

mmandley
06-14-2011, 12:12 PM
If i had to do it all again, and had the deep pockets i would do 3 Intakes, all 1 inch and then add 3 1200 pumps and each would goto a bag, 2 v drive bags, 1 ski locker/IBS. Then use the same style 1200 pumps for draining threw 1 inch lines.

I could do this to mine now but the cost of the pumps is whats holding me back. 600 in pumps alone is pricy just to pick up 5 to 7 minutes on drain fill times.

bergermaister
06-14-2011, 12:30 PM
I scoured over the winter and picked up five T-1200 pumps for under $160 total. Three off eBay, two from Amazon. I did add another $60 worth of straight hose barb style fittings so I didn't have to mess with the 90 degree ones they come with that take up more space and potentially slow down flow. But all in all cheaper than the impellor route.

However all the fittings, hose, clamps, etc. can add up, but I still like the aerator approach over impellor. I'm not sure what my total bill is yet on my system. I'll figure it out before I post up the "what i did" thread.

mmandley
06-14-2011, 12:35 PM
I scoured over the winter and picked up five T-1200 pumps for under $160 total. Three off eBay, two from Amazon. I did add another $60 worth of straight hose barb style fittings so I didn't have to mess with the 90 degree ones they come with that take up more space and potentially slow down flow. But all in all cheaper than the impellor route.

However all the fittings, hose, clamps, etc. can add up, but I still like the aerator approach over impellor. I'm not sure what my total bill is yet on my system. I'll figure it out before I post up the "what i did" thread.

Nice man, i figure ill drop the bug in Spencers ear im looking for reman pumps and start grabing up what i can.

Right now i think i have 2 brand new 800 Tsunamis in the box i grabed last year and didnt use them lol.

I will ahve to start looking and collecting items for the ballast upgrade, thats most likley going to be my major upgrade this next winter. Right now just waiting for some decent weather to run the hour meter up with lol.

bergermaister
06-14-2011, 12:53 PM
Right now just waiting for some decent weather to run the hour meter up with lol. I hear that.... At least you've got Fiera wet at least once. I'm not even dewinterized yet!

newty
06-14-2011, 02:24 PM
I'd order custom bags to fit the rears, prolly aroudn 1400lbs each, two reversable pumps for each bag and seperaet throug-hulls for each then 2 more reversables for the front bag and IBS.:p

All with timers.

Or... 4 hot women with hand bailing pumps... Take as long as you want!:p

cab13367
06-14-2011, 03:53 PM
As others have said, I'd go with three T-1200 Tsunami fill pumps each on it's own 1" intake and three T-1200 drain pumps, all on 1" lines. I'd have a bag custom made for the front locker so it fills up every square inch. No IBS for me - don't have a need and don't want to lose the storage space.

bergermaister
06-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Or... 4 hot women with hand bailing pumps... Take as long as you want!
Maybe through in a siphon line for them to try. Juss sayin.....

jmvotto
06-14-2011, 11:01 PM
If i had to do it all again, and had the deep pockets i would do 3 Intakes, all 1 inch and then add 3 1200 pumps and each would goto a bag, 2 v drive bags, 1 ski locker/IBS. Then use the same style 1200 pumps for draining threw 1 inch lines.

I could do this to mine now but the cost of the pumps is whats holding me back. 600 in pumps alone is pricy just to pick up 5 to 7 minutes on drain fill times.

http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-tsunami-ballast-pump-1200.html

mike, there are 40 each for the 1200's not 100 each

mmandley
06-15-2011, 12:14 PM
http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-tsunami-ballast-pump-1200.html

mike, there are 40 each for the 1200's not 100 each

WOW didnt realize they were this cheap, i thoughtit was 100 a pump, is that the same size as the main pump on the boats right now?

At 40 a pump this is much more a reality lol.

jmvotto
06-15-2011, 12:24 PM
Its a different pump, but i think it pumps as much or more water than the stock fill pump. the propriety adapter is a little pricey though. I have seen a couple people heat the hose and muscle it on the fitting... LOL

bergermaister
06-15-2011, 01:10 PM
I have seen a couple people heat the hose and muscle it on the fitting... LOL

If I ever get around to finishing I'll post up my ballast story. Yes, you can stick 1" hose on the Tsunami 1200's 1-1/8" hose barbs. I've done a bunch of them now so I'm a pro...LOL The 1" vinyl braided is pretty easy to do, the 1" premium hose with the coils is a total PITA but still doable. (WM said you can actually stretch this hose to go over a 1-3/8" fitting but i wouldn't do it. I'd worry about the integrity of the material giving up.)

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1070039.jpg

I opted to go with a bunch of the Attwood 3902 straight fittings shown above in my setup to avoid the 90 degree corners where possible. They're still a 1-1/8" hose barb though just like the 90's that come with the pumps and screw right on to that oddball pump inlet and outlet thread.

mmandley
06-16-2011, 10:05 AM
Nice Berg, i have that same type of hose in my boat as well, i use a heat gun and it slides on like butter.

I was at WM yesterday and talked with Spencer, looks like i might be working the ballast system over this summer he made me a few offers i couldnt refuse lol.

We also talked about a new X system or switch over, it actualy pumps the water from 1 750 bag to the other when you want to switch sides for surfing. Its supposed to be super fast.

kaneboats
06-16-2011, 11:32 AM
Its a different pump, but i think it pumps as much or more water than the stock fill pump. the propriety adapter is a little pricey though. I have seen a couple people heat the hose and muscle it on the fitting... LOL

The stock fill pump on the older GIII system is called a "Rule 2000" but it is rated as a 1200 gph pump. The Tsunami is also a 1200 gph. Lots of folks on here think the Rule one moves just a little more water but, when you start putting 3 of the Tsunamis in, the difference is negligible and the cost difference is worth it.