PDA

View Full Version : WAKESURFING



NC05LSV
03-29-2005, 05:43 PM
Was curious about wakesurfing and have heard that you have to be really careful due to the exhaust output of certain boats. I recently bought a 05 LSV and am wanting to get the most out of the boat. Any ideas on the safety of doing it with this model boat? thanks

smokedog2
03-30-2005, 12:06 AM
The nix on this is body surfing. To get the right feel they surf close to the boat and without a lifejacket. They get a little Co2 and drown. I see no problem standing, in the back with a vest. If you pass out you will fall and float.

I also think this is a bit hyped and venture a guess that the story told and the facts are only loosely connected.

I intend to test the “trapped pocket” of CO2 with a little cigar smoke or even a cherry bomb this summer. I bet you need to be parked on a calm day with the engine running and stick your face in the exhaust.

Lifejacket – what a concept.

SD2

zabooda
03-30-2005, 02:51 AM
The risk is there. I consider the risk to be small but some trial lawyers in Seattle got my attention when the State released the names and addresses of all Moomba owners in the state so they could send out information on teak riding and surfing. A 21 year old lady drowned in 2003 from being towed around on the deck and disappeared. The Moomba web site has a good article on the risks. Hope it doesn't come to having big warning stickers stuck to the back of the boat. Ya'll be careful and grab a breath of fresh air once in a while.

Yellowmobius
03-30-2005, 09:28 AM
Warning stickers were made to be taken OFF!

smokedog2
03-30-2005, 11:59 AM
Do not stick your tongue in the blender.

Am I the only person that hears about the 21 year old disappearing of the back of the boat and wonders, what really happened?

Did they find the body? Did the autopsy show CO intoxication and/or some other intoxication?

I would love to see an air flow analysis for trapping CO behind a moving boat on open water. I would guess it is a case of a constantly created bubble from output rather than a formed bubble.

I wonder if I can get a digital CO meter?

OnTheH20
03-30-2005, 01:48 PM
The 2005 manual already has a warning about Carbon Monoxide and the dangers of teak (body) and wake surfing. It nicely located right above the "Product Misuse" legal clause.

I agree with SD2 that body surfing is a bad idea. How could you NOT suck in the exhaust fumes while hanging onto the platform. Hang onto your car bumper and see what happens. As for wake surfing...I'm still interested in trying this out but fully intend on wearing a life jacket and keeping CO in mind.

NC05LSV
03-30-2005, 09:38 PM
Thanks all..........luckily for me I will probably be falling off often enough that I will be able to avoid the bad air. I can't imagine that it would be concentrated enough that far back from the boat to really pose a hazzard. I definitely can see the teak surfing being a major no no......thanks again

smokedog2
03-30-2005, 09:57 PM
http://safetynet.smis.doi.gov/teakfinal.pdf

Check this out. A real eye opener on teak surfing.

Note how fast the CO falls off but up sucking the exhaust, laying on the platform you are at risk. I wish they had checked the distance up as well as out.

I am now a believer.

SD2

hydro
03-31-2005, 12:11 AM
Hey Smokedog2

Holy Cow that is some bad stuff. Thanks for the link. I will be showing that to my son who has been busting my chops to let them try that. This should convince him it is not the thing to do. Once again thanks for the link.

Catdog1
03-31-2005, 02:49 AM
Pretty intensive study. Wow. Didn't know that kind of study was done, let alone available for us to read.


The study doesn't specifically address this point, but, it seems possible that simply leaning out of the back of the boat could put your head in the zone of maximum CO concentration.

zabooda
03-31-2005, 03:16 AM
Thanks for the article Smoke. I never had anyone do the teak surfing but I used to let the kids use the shower while they were on the deck with the engine running when we were primitive camping. Not worth the risk anymore. I don't want to blow smoke (pardon the pun) but those things can ruin a day.

WakeMe
04-03-2005, 11:41 PM
It's funny that you mention that as Skier's Choice no longer offers the shower option for that exact reason.

NC05LSV
04-07-2005, 05:05 PM
learned alot from all of the responses.......thanks

Ian Brantford
04-07-2005, 07:58 PM
By "drop off", you mean "fall unconscious", right? :-)

Actually, Centurion's Web site also points out that they offer side exhaust. I was a bit disappointed to find that Moomba doesn't offer it. I would have included it with my boat order. Oh well, it got everything else that I could want in a woma^H^H^H^Hboat.

Ian

SoTX
05-18-2005, 12:50 PM
I wake surf ever time I go out and it is the most fun I have ever had behind a boat. Go to
http://www.howtowakesurf.com/
also check out http://www.freshairexhaust.com/
This guy has an excellent exhaust pipe, way better than the side exhaust crap. They have all the studies and everything you ever wanted to know about wake surfing.
I am totally hooked on it and friends I take out I get them up the first time and they do want to wakeboard any more just surf. Man it is a blast and a half and I highly recommend their exhaust sytem if you are going to try this. I would not surf without the exhaust sytem.

OnTheH20
05-18-2005, 05:23 PM
I was all set to get the HyperLite, Landlock 5' 6" when someone suggested the Inlander from Liquid Force. Which board would you recommend for beginners?

doug0446
05-18-2005, 11:47 PM
http://www.trickboardz.com/home_2.jsp

good info on the subject of wake surfing

I am about to buy a LSV. Tomorrow I take it for a test ride and if it goes well, I will.

doug0446
05-18-2005, 11:52 PM
http://www.howtowakesurf.com/Carbon_Monoxide.jsp

Carbon Monoxide can kill.

It kills quietly and without warning. Fortunately for wakesurfers, most inboard boats, most of the time, do not expose the rider to very much carbon monoxide. Unfortunately, the people in the boat may be exposed to a lot. It depends on how the boat is set up, where you are sitting, and the direction and strength of the wind.

Most carbon monoxide deaths associated with inboard boats happened to people that were teak surfing, (platform dragging, teak drag, body surfing or hanging onto the swim platform). Be aware though, there have been deaths to people sitting inside the boat, on the swim platform, or swimming around the back of an operating boat.

WARNING: Pregnant women should be especially careful to avoid breathing boat exhaust. An unborn child is very susceptible to carbon monoxide poisoning.

Many people have been on a boat and later in the day felt drowsy or had a headache. They typically blame it on the sun, food, beer, etc. The complaints may be due to carbon monoxide poisoning.

The following is an excerpt from the Fresh Air Exhaust Carbon Monoxide study.

I have been around boats most of my life. I certainly have smelled exhaust gases while operating these boats. For the most part, I had very little concern for carbon monoxide. When I began building and testing Fresh Air Exhaust, I was merely trying to move the exhaust further away from the wakesurfer. Even though I was aware of the potential dangers of carbon monoxide and some of the drowning deaths associated with it, my attitude towards boat exhaust was still somewhat careless.

My attitude changed substantially once we actually began testing carbon monoxide concentrations. Our first time testing carbon monoxide levels, we let the boat idle near the pier to warm up. As I went to set up the Biosystems carbon monoxide monitor at the back seat, the alarm on the monitor started blaring. The carbon monoxide levels inside the boat, around the back seat, exceeded 1100 ppm (the maximum the meter would register). Since 1200 ppm is considered lethal, I suddenly had a new respect for carbon monoxide levels present in boats.

A life vest can prevent Carbon monoxide induced drowning. When participating in watersports, ALWAYS wear a life vest. Always!

Larry Mann, DC

Click here to read the complete study.

In a study by the Centers For Disease Control conducted for the U. S. Coast Guard, Fresh Air Exhaust removed up to 90% of the carbon monoxide from the boat. Fresh Air Exhaust may reduce air pollution generated by inboard boats (further laboratory testing is planned).

With Fresh Air Exhaust boats operate quieter; your stereo sounds better.

DO NOT teak drag - you will likely die.

SoTX
05-19-2005, 09:06 AM
OnTheH20
I would definetly go with a Trickboardz Freestyle. Way better than the boards you mentioned. More versatle and easy, easy to ride. I have the CWB surf board and the inlander and a Shoreline Lake Board. Trickboardz blows them away. Their exhaust pipe is the BOMB. I can not tell any performance difference with the pipe except it is quieter.

smokedog2
05-19-2005, 09:13 AM
It is just a guess. But I bet you could get a 50% decrease or better just extending the tail pipes about 8 inches like you have and skipping the bringing together and dumping down in the water.

Maybe bring it up under the teak and end just short of where the teak ends.

No sound reduction but from what I remember the low speed vacuum behind the boat is what really builds the CO.

Anyway, I think it would be cheaper, less stuff behind the boat and you could still get to the drain plug.


SD2

SoTX
05-19-2005, 09:23 AM
I wonder why manufacturers do not address this issue. Seems to me they could have the exhaust exit at the bottom of the boat instead of the back or something. I am no engineer but I would think they could come up with something.
Freashair exhaust works great and I have no drain plug problems.

seanpatsdad
05-19-2005, 01:46 PM
SoTx
how do the rods that go up to the swimdeck attach on our boats since we have fiberglass and not wood platforms.Did you really notice the boat is quieter at wakeboard speed.Thanks for any info.
John

SoTX
05-19-2005, 02:15 PM
There is a bracket that bolts into the fiberglass. It is like a 1"x15"x1/8" piece of stainless steel flat iron. That is screwed to the bottom of the platform then there are a couple of stainless 3/8" all thread that hang off that and support the pipe.
Now as far as noise goes, yes simply because the exhaust noise is now always under water. Sure your pipes are under water at slow speed now. But when you get up to speed your pipes are at the water level or just under. The Freash Air exhaust puts the exhaust anothe 12" or so below your existing pipes. Look at the photo's on his web page.
I have had my pipe on for a year now with no problems what so ever. The pipe is stainless and he paints it black and I have some paint peeling right at the exit hole but it don't bother me enough to complain.

seanpatsdad
05-19-2005, 02:24 PM
SoTx
Thanks for the detailed review.I am going to seriously consider this mod.
John

SoTX
05-19-2005, 02:26 PM
In my opinion it is the only way to go if you want to surf. I am addicted to it.

smokedog2
05-19-2005, 04:11 PM
How does it affect handling and the wake? Do you need to drill holes in the boat exhaust area to mount it (I have a thing against adding holes to a new boat)?

tx for the info. The pictures kind of make it look like huge; your description is a bit better.

SD2

SoTX
05-20-2005, 09:14 AM
The only holes are where it screws to the bottom of the ski platform.
There is a short section of exhaust rubber tubing between the boats pipes and the Freashair Exhaust system. They are connected to the boat and system with hose clamps......tighten the hell out of the clamps and you will have no problem with it comming off.
Now if you hit something with it it is designed to give way and may come off. The connection to the ski platform will or should hold it until you can reconnect it. Now with that said I have only ever had it come part way off after hitting something one time and I was able to reconnect it and no damage occured to my boat at all.
As far as the wake goes this is a small attachment and I see no effect at all. The single pipe that drops down is thin and oval shaped to be more aero dynamic. I can see no difference at all in wake shape or size.

I took out some family and kids last night and just pulled everyone arround in the tube. The whole time I am driving I was daydreaming about surfing. It is just now warm enough down here to hit the lake and yesterday was my second time in the water this season.

When I go to surf I have two balast, one accross the back at 900lbs and one on the drvers side at 600lbs then I get 4 or 5 of the biggest heavy guys that work for me and take them with me. The heavyest guy sits on the balast right behind the driver then another guy up front on the driver side and the rest in the back and middle of the boat......stereo is pumpin. I get my best wake at about 9.5 mph. The coolest thing is it is a never ending wave you can surf for miles.
Now if you have someone that wants to surf that is big...say in the 230lbs and above range the only board I have found that will work is a 7'6" Shoreline Lake Board. This is just like a regular ocean surfboard except the nose is curled up in front a little bit. This board has great floatation and I have surfed guys with no rope that weigh 275lbs. Now when surfing the big people on the big board there aint many tricks they can do but they can shred a little bit.

Hey I do want to sound like a rep for the exhaust system it is just that it is a product I have found that allows me to do what I like (surf) safely. I know of no other safe exhaust system except this one and it has worked good for me.

I will stop now, but I could go on and on and on. I am addicted.............

smokedog2
05-20-2005, 03:22 PM
I'm in Ohio. you get no symathy on weather, but thanks a bunch for the info. I may add it next year. I am about tapped out for now :)

SD2

MEDIC151
06-17-2005, 09:44 AM
Just bought the TrickBoardz Freestyle and got it yesterday. I am on duty the next 48 hours so all I can do is look at it. Sunday I plan on spending some quality lake time, so I will let you know how it went.

Medic

SoTX
06-17-2005, 10:30 AM
You will not be disapointed. Awesome board. Are you set up to not get gased from your boats exhaust? be careful.

MEDIC151
06-17-2005, 01:47 PM
Not as of yet, next on the purchase list. I think that if I keep the wind hittiing me from the south and boarding east and west, it shouldn't be an issue till I can get the fresh air. Being a medic, I have seen the effects of CO poisoning and don't really care to be a statistic.

Medic151

Aquaholic
06-20-2005, 10:31 PM
I just bought the wake skate from Trick Boardz and we are having trouble getting it to go on its own. I bought a 750lb bag and it make a huge wave, but we are still experimenting. Ya'll have any weighting suggestions? I been to wakeworld and read my brains out trying to make the majic happen.

Aquaholic

06-21-2005, 09:16 PM
On my Outback in order to surf I have a 900lb sac across the back and a 500lb on the side and get eveyone to sit on that side of the boat. My outback throws a good enough wave to free surf my 265lb a$$. Now with that said I have had the owner of Trick Bordz behind my boat on his wake skate (with no fins) free riding and shreding like no other. I would guess he weighs about 150 lbs to 165 lbs. I could not free ride at my weight on the wake skate. So if you are a big guy like me free ridding on a wake skate may be difficult, however if you are not you simply need to realy weigh down one side of the boat heavily. The key to a good wave is a masive volume of water displacement. Our perfect speed is 9.8 mph. Hope this helps.
Once you find the sweet spot..........watch out, you will be so stoked you may never want to do anything else behind your boat.

MEDIC151
06-21-2005, 09:51 PM
I rode the board on sunday and loved it. I did not however, get to the point of a constant freeride. Still trying to tune the wake a little. My brother got the freeride several times and now is hooked. I think one more time on the water with it, we should have it down. My twin 13 year old boys think that its the coolest thing since sliced bread. I will have to fight for board time now.

Medic

doug0446
06-22-2005, 12:41 AM
On comment
from all the studies

http://www.boatpipes.com/CO_MainPage.jsp

the goal is to stay below 35 ppm. If you are at the 2 feet level, right behind the boat that is bad. But if you are 5 feet, it looks liike you are below 35 ppm in all cases.

Also, it looks like being in the back of the boat at slow speeds is a bad thing.

http://www.boatpipes.com/_Images/Appendix A.jpg

35 ppm - US EPA's national ambient air quality standard 1-hour TWA limit for CO exposure.
35 ppm - US NIOSH recommended 8-hour TWA limit for occupational CO exposure
35 ppm - US OSHA maximum acceptable level for commercial buildings
35 ppm - Level above which fire fighters may be required to use self-contained breathing apparatus.
35 - 50 ppm - US OSHA 8-hour TWA legal limit for occupational CO exposure

SoTX
06-22-2005, 08:13 AM
Definetly get the pipe. It makes a world of difference.
Now Aquaholic here is what we do. I have an 04 Outback and I put a 900 lb sack across the back and 500 lb sack on one side usually the driver side as we are goofy footed. Then I get everyone on the boat to sit on the drivers side. I throw a huge wave and optimum speed for us free riding is 9.8 mph. The key is realy more weight on one side of the boat rather than the back.
Another factor is body weight. I weigh 265 lbs and I can not free ride a wake skate due to my body weight. I can however free ride a surf board because the surf board has more flotation. So if you are a big guy do not expect to free ride a wake skate. Once you hit the 200 lbs mark it gets difficult to free ride a wake skate.
Hope this helps.

MEDIC151
06-22-2005, 10:15 AM
As far as the study values go, on our Fire Department we are required to wear SCBA's until our CO monitors drop below audible warning levels. I think that it is set at 15 PPM. That is not always the case as we are looking to get out of those things ASAP. CO has a cumulative effect, so just taking a small break for fresh air doesn't allow enough time for the carboxyhemaglobin levels to drop to zero. Once back behind the boat, you will build on the existing levels as CO binds with your red blood cells way more readily than o2.

Enough of that! Got the next 4 days off and plan on spending some quality lake time.

Medic

MEDIC151
06-22-2005, 10:18 AM
I wonder what looks I would get if I wore my airpack while surfing????? Sure would make a good picture.

Medic

Aquaholic
06-29-2005, 11:06 PM
Houston we have a go!! However it has taken 1500 lbs !!! yes i said 1500 pooounnds. Last weekend I bought a second 750lb bag and put both on the left side and we have the beginnings of monster wake. We started angling the board a little more and got the free ride i wqs looking for. But we only had the two of us to do it . I am looking forward to this week because we will have more people in the boat. News and film at eleven.

Aquaholic

mseidelch
06-30-2005, 03:18 AM
Hi out there,

could anybody please post a pic of the standard exhaust ? Here in Switzerland they do some modifications before delivery. One of them is the exhaust pipes that are slightly modified. I'd like to see how the original looks like. I'll post a pic of the modded ones once my boat arrives.
Thanks in advance !

Markus

mseidelch
07-08-2005, 04:32 AM
Here a pic of the standard Swiss exhaust pipes

smokedog2
07-08-2005, 09:26 AM
They must do that for CO reasons. I like it. Are they flexible? I would think the water force would push them over once you got going. Who makes them?

i'd post a pix but have none of the back end out of the water - it is just a rubber flap over the exhaust. It is not very tight either but keeps water from pushing up into the engine from a wave or whatever.

SD2

mseidelch
07-11-2005, 11:27 AM
Hi SD2!

No the pipes are not flexible. They put these ones on to reduce noise.
The pipes have been mounted by the local dealer. Finally they've cut the pipes to arrive just at the end of the hull to avoid any disturbance of the wake...

Markus