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rsinger
08-22-2011, 02:22 PM
I've got 4 of these on my boat and am considering replacing them. I think I might be able to get a better sound with a different speaker. Just looking for some feedback from people that have gone through the process.

It's difficult to make a comparison, not hearing what the different speakers sound like on the boat.

Worst case scenario is that I'll have to haul the boat to a dealer and then try what they have.

I've seen some speakers advertised on the forums, but I'm sitting on the fence on weather to commit to a unheard set of speakers.

Thanks for any feedback you folks can provide.

bergermaister
08-22-2011, 02:31 PM
What speakers are loaded in those Liquid Audio cans? I have the LA's as well, 2 doubles loaded with PolkMM651's and overpowered. I'd say they're really good, but not great. Got to compare to some Wetsounds Pro 80's this last weekend and yet again it got me thinking about upgrading as well...

The Polks just don't project out like I want. In the boat or right around it they sound great - parked on the beach and standing 40-50ft away, not as much. Pretty sold on the HLCD's for my next go round. Either the Kicker 6500.2 or maybe the Samson (chrome version of the Exiles). I want to stay with a polished finish on the cans.

98outback
08-22-2011, 02:48 PM
I had the infinity tower speakers and they were ok for the money. Nothing compared to the wet sounds or exiles. I won a set of the LA double cans with the kicker hlcd on ebay from LA for 440.00. They sound better then the infinity's that were on before and these are underpowered at the moment. I only have 125w going to each can. I am going to upgrade the amp this winter. They are definitely louder and cleaner sounding then what I had before and also reasonably priced.

11863

rsinger
08-22-2011, 07:05 PM
What speakers are loaded in those Liquid Audio cans?


This is the result of a couple of pm's with bergermaister. I got curious and pulled one of the speakers and here is the result.

They are kicker dx60 speakers

OK now you guys got me into it. I'm starting to do a bunch of reading on specs. Never should have gone down this path.:rolleyes:

I'll probably end up replacing the amps, adding a second battery and switch, redoing the sub (again). Where does it end....

bergermaister
08-23-2011, 03:47 PM
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA...!

Hey 98outback - what amp are you currently running the Kicker HLCD's from LA with? I'm curious how they're wired - if I recall Phil from Kicker said you can't get them down to 2ohm unless you add another mid to the mix.

08LSV
08-23-2011, 07:17 PM
I'll probably end up replacing the amps, adding a second battery and switch, redoing the sub (again). Where does it end....

The short answer is that it never ends.... lol! I have replaced my stereo twice this year already. We went with the Exile SXT65's after all the reviews on here and could not be happier. We mostly surf now and they are so clear compared to the wetsounds at close range. We can here them just fine when wakeboarding as well. Don't get me wrong the Wetsounds can be heard clearly a mile away from your boat but I rarely put my 5,280 foot rope on when wakeboarding... We also finally went with the kicker 700.5 and 350.4 amps and have had zero issues with them. I would definitely add a second battery if possible, we have never completely drained one battery where it wouldn't start the boat but it is nice not to ever have to worry about it.

Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

98outback
08-24-2011, 02:31 PM
berg

I still have the old inifinity amp that came with the first set of tower speakers. It is running at 125x2@ 4ohms. I am upgrading it to a kicker amp over the winter. Will be going to the 450.2 so I can run 150 @ 4 ohm load. Even on the 125w they are much better then the infinity speakers I had before.

Brianinpdx
08-24-2011, 05:27 PM
Rsinger - Interesting read on this thread. Whatever brand you choose you should make sure you properly power the speakers. Often times, (yes even with my brand), guys drop big dollars on the tower speakers and connect a baby amplifier to them and the result isn't so good.

I'd take a look at how you use your stereo and what makes the most sense configuration wise before making a change. HLCD's are going to give you projection back to long distance riders--- read wake boarders, foilers, tubers, (and dudes with 5230ft of rope--haha). Direct radiating tower speakers like the Exile SXT65 for example are going to be optimized more for the party cove, surfers, family applications because they will give you a wide field of sound and fantastic sound quality.

The real key is to put together each stereo zone CABIN / SUB / TOWER so they work in conjunction with each other. many times when Im on the water answering questions for people this is a reoccurring subject. For example, if you put a 2500W sub in the boat and only run the cabin speakers off the deck, how do you think its going to sound? Any guesses? Trust me, I see this a lot. Best advice is look at the whole system when picking your upgrades. Even if its over several seasons, go zone by zone and make sure they will compliment each other.

-Brian
Exile Audio

rsinger
08-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Thanks everyone, but I've already started what's probably going to be a slow process. I've already done some reading on the following
1. HLCD versus traditional speakers
2. 2 versus 4 speakers on the tower and and db gains using 4 speakers
3. Setting up/matching amp and head gains to avoid distortion.
4. Various sub enclosures.
5. Power ratings on amps and power rating on speakers.
6. Tons of other stuff

Since I just got the boat last year, the first place I'm going to start is Verifying the head, sub amp, and cabin/tower amps are set up properly and go from there. This is obviously going to be a slow process due to having to re-learn what I took in college about 30 years ago.

At this point I was just wondering if anyone would have a "hybrid" set so speakers on their tower that are switchable (on/off). Pair of Hlcd's for wakeboarders, and pair of direct radiating speakers for close up sound levels. A bit of a radical idea, but you never know.

Anyway, looks like I got some reading to do.

rdlangston13
08-24-2011, 10:51 PM
Never seen a Hybrid setup that has a switch to back and forth between the two. I went down this road with Brian back in the spring and ended up replacing everything in my boat but the head unit. Full Exile system except for my eq which came from WetSounds. It sounded great till about July and then I had to learn the hard way about properly powering the system. Not talking about amps but batteries. My two battery set up with no shore charger was not enough to sustain the power needs of my system. After repeated use and drainage on the stereo battery without ever charging it back up it got so weak that my system would just cut off randomly. I then upgraded and put two group 29 batteries on my stereo bank and one group 24 for starting and i installed a prosport 20 plus onboard charger and I must say my boat is back to making alot of great sounding noise! I can easily drown out all the other boats on the island i park at! :-D

rsinger
08-25-2011, 07:07 AM
I had to learn the hard way about properly powering the system. Not talking about amps but batteries. My two battery set up with no shore charger was not enough to sustain the power needs of my system. After repeated use and drainage on the stereo battery without ever charging it back up it got so weak that my system would just cut off randomly.

This was also one of my considerations. I'm hoping to have a decent enough sound without having to go down that road. Might not be possible, but I'll try. I guess, bottom line is looking at the load that the alternator can support, and stay under that. Good thing that my oldest kid is an electrical engineer wannabe. He can do all the math, then we can get back to the real world and see if the calculations work. Hopefully he's still got some contacts at the university because I know they have some pretty heavy duty load resisters to test out the calculations. Only problem there is that I'll need a temporary spare battery until we know the results, because we would be doing the tests on the water under practical conditions. Why waste gas doing tests when you can be wakeboarding/surfing in the mean time?

If we end up going that deep, I'll document the progress.

98outback
08-25-2011, 07:40 AM
rsinger

I do not have as much power amp wise as these other boats do but I did install a second battery with a perko. I also have a charger mounted in the boat that gets plugged in when we return from the weekend at the lake. Its the same charger as the person before was talking about. I believe its a promariner pro sport 12 I am using instead of the 20. I have been using this battery setup for 4 years with no issues. Charger is only around 100-150 and an extra battery is not that much to have a reassuring feeling when out on the water.

wetsounds1
08-25-2011, 02:12 PM
rsinger,

The design of our new Revolution tower speakers were built from the ground up to be the best combination of in boat sound quality as well as output. The REV 8 are insane how clean and clear they are and full of mid bass. They do not sound like a horn speaker. So you don't need a hybrid type system as you described as the speaker is already designed to do both. I have a dealer who has 8 cans with Focal components on his tower of his personal boat. These are very expensive car audio speakers at $999 a set just the speakers and then the tower cans he had built for them. He does a ton of very large Wet Sounds systems. He has a boat in the shop now with 14 REV 10's on the tower. So he goes big. However, he was like you that he was more interested in inside the boat sound quality, knowing he would sacrifice wake distances. He is pulling all his stuff off and putting in 8 REV 8's. As he said they are the first horn loaded speaker he has ever heard that has the sound quality he loves and now he doesnt have to sacrifice wake range. So he can finally have both.

So my suggestion is not do so much reading. But go take a listen. Do a demo, spend some time with the music you like. And compare and find the best for what you are after. You can call us at 877-938-7757 and talk with Justin or Omar and they can see if we have a dealer near you that has some REV's on display.

Tim
Wet Sounds

philwsailz
08-25-2011, 03:13 PM
I agree with Tim. If you go with a tower system that is designed in the beginning to sound good near and far, there is no need to mix and match direct-radiating coaxials and HLCD to get what you are looking for. "Hybrid" only tries to merge two different technologies in an effort to minimize their unique and disparate shortcomings...

Lots of good stuff being said about the new Wetsounds REV stuff. Consider the Kicker KM6500.2 setup as well, as there are some killer 1000 watt setups starting to be built, based on the IX amplifiers. What I know about either Wetsounds REV series of the KICKER KM6500.2/KM6500 tells me you will get good sound near and far from HLCD technology from both brands that at the same time does not sound like a horn. There are some very impressive Kicker KM6500.2 setups out there in addition to the Wetsounds setups, so look around. Listen too as Tim says; all the hype and fan-speak on the forums will not replace you putting your ears and your music to a set of speakerrs you are considering.

Best of luck in your quest, and let me know if I can be of assistance!

Phil
Kicker

EarmarkMarine
08-25-2011, 04:11 PM
Nothing stays static for long and things definitely change. I have to wholely agree with what both Tim and Phil have said about today's current tower speaker offerings. You can definitely have a single speaker that has the muscle to project over distance with amplitude and without breaking up and still have a speaker that sounds very musical and enjoyable at near field.
Will a $1000 pair of Focal components sound the best at five feet? Absolutely. But a speaker with that complex of a passive crossover network has no business on a wakeboard tower or even in the coaming of a boat. Even at rest, they tend to fall flat when you get much beyond the swim deck.
Initially HLCDs were all about prioritizing the SPL competition and therefore compromised SQ. Smallish HLCDs couldn't get a midbass driver to keep pace with the aggressive compression horn tweeter. So some where brutally bright. And they didn't want to fully attenuate the tweeter because that would seriously diminish the output....and finish poorly in S.P.L. Then the "Hybrid" systems were developed, starting with the Wetsounds Double Up and followed by the Exile Hybrid, although taking different approaches, both used contrasting speakers to still maintain an HLCD presence and yet moderate some of the more strident aspects of an HLCD for better near field listening. And these hybrids generally do sound very good. But they are not a necessity any longer for those who want both the near field SQ and the long range projection. You can get the results far more efficiently and generally more cost-effectively today.
Drivers (individual speaker components) have improved. Crossovers have really improved! And, the manufacturers have really stepped up in there understanding of speaker design. Its not easy to build a speaker that plays very loud when needed but is also very well damped so that it does not have an erratic response. But they did it!!!

David
Earmark Marine

c.rix
08-25-2011, 05:30 PM
I have that kickers 6500.2 on my tower I am only running the 1 pair for now, but all I can say it that my all buddy's say my tower set up is much clearer/louder than other boats they have rode behind one buddy has a stock 4 speaker rockford 6x9's set up and the other 6.5 clarions both coaxials that came with their boats and the hcld's blow them out of the water !!!

the Kickers actually sound very nice even at close quarters while surfing I was actually very pleased with them thinking they would be too much at 10' out

best part about the hcld's is that I can hear them clear as day even at 75' out but with that in mind so can people on shore probably why I got cussed out last weekend while wakeboarding :D