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KG's Supra24
09-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Anyone else a little excited to see what Mastercraft unveils tomorrow?

Please don't ban me ...

zabooda
09-08-2011, 11:28 AM
Not me but the way boats are getting bigger it will be a 35 foot cabin/wakeboard cruiser with a jacuzzi so boarders can loosen up those hamstrings.

Mikes
09-08-2011, 11:37 AM
And a big screen with cameras on the back so the boarder can watch himself!

Razzman
09-08-2011, 11:49 AM
I could care less what they unveil as it's gauranteed to be overpriced, gaudy and sub-par quality for the money as all thier boats are. What gets me is for many people, a Mastercraft is their dream boat. For the life of me I cannot figure out why. :rolleyes:

deafgoose
09-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Boat manufactures need to wake up and copy what Axis is doing.

rdlangston13
09-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Looking at alcabs thread about his brothers x25 it seems that mastercraft hulls are superior to SC hulls. I mean a 21.5 foot boat that weighs 1000 lbs more than my 21.5 foot boat. The hull has to be rock solid and thick all the way up to the gunwales. Not sure this alone justifies the price but I'm sure it contributes. I know I can bump the side of my boat at the bottom and it feels and sounds rock solid, as I work my way up it get increasingly hollow sounding

deafgoose
09-08-2011, 01:05 PM
Looking at alcabs thread about his brothers x25 it seems that mastercraft hulls are superior to SC hulls. I mean a 21.5 foot boat that weighs 1000 lbs more than my 21.5 foot boat. The hull has to be rock solid and thick all the way up to the gunwales. Not sure this alone justifies the price but I'm sure it contributes. I know I can bump the side of my boat at the bottom and it feels and sounds rock solid, as I work my way up it get increasingly hollow sounding

Would you pay an extra 20k for a thick hull? I think not.

Give the people what they want! :)

brain_rinse
09-08-2011, 01:12 PM
The extra weight is actually all the slabs of billet aluminum used to brace the tower. :)

KG's Supra24
09-08-2011, 01:12 PM
I'm hoping its the new xstar. I don't have any intentions of buying one but am anxious to see the new hull.

Of course Mastercraft is overpriced but they are usually leading the charge in the industry.

brain_rinse
09-08-2011, 01:14 PM
Boat manufactures need to wake up and copy what Axis is doing.
I would have agreed with you a couple of years ago when the A22 was low 40s. Now they are mid 50s just like so many other manufacturers.

sandm
09-08-2011, 01:47 PM
Boat manufactures need to wake up and copy what Axis is doing.

I sure hope not. that boat is ugly as sin and looks/feels cheap inside. I like to think that I'm in the majority that think a good wake is important, but so are other things in a boat and axis was built for one thing and one thing only..

I would love to see what a new mastercraft looks like, but they are way out of my price range and have to say that even if I won a crapton of money, there are much better values out there..

Canuckle Head
09-08-2011, 02:23 PM
Boat manufactures need to wake up and copy what Axis is doing.

I've been eyeballing a new A22 Vandal.

Saw one when I was in Lake Oswego and was very impressed.

c.rix
09-08-2011, 04:24 PM
ive been eyeballing a sport 200 nautique too bad thats all that I will be doing with a nautique :D

deafgoose
09-08-2011, 04:25 PM
I've been eyeballing a new A22 Vandal.

Saw one when I was in Lake Oswego and was very impressed.

I am going to trade-in my OBV for an Axis. It's only a matter of when.

deafgoose
09-08-2011, 04:27 PM
I sure hope not. that boat is ugly as sin and looks/feels cheap inside. I like to think that I'm in the majority that think a good wake is important, but so are other things in a boat and axis was built for one thing and one thing only..

I would love to see what a new mastercraft looks like, but they are way out of my price range and have to say that even if I won a crapton of money, there are much better values out there..

Looks are subjective. I personally think Malibu's are bland. The edgy styling of the Axis does it for me.

Lots has changed in the past 4 years since Axis released their 1st boat. The fit/finish is on par with Malibu, just without all the bells and whistles.

Canuckle Head
09-08-2011, 05:06 PM
Looks are subjective. I personally think Malibu's are bland. The edgy styling of the Axis does it for me.

Lots has changed in the past 4 years since Axis released their 1st boat. The fit/finish is on par with Malibu, just without all the bells and whistles.

Have you seen the 2011 Vandall Edition? Verrrrry Niiice! Sexy Time!

deafgoose
09-08-2011, 05:16 PM
Have you seen the 2011 Vandall Edition? Verrrrry Niiice! Sexy Time!

I wont be going with the Vandall because there are a few options on that package that I have no use for.

Vandall Edition includes: Vandall Edition graphics, high altitude prop, pop up cleats, flip-up driver’s bolster, battery isolator switch, ChillAX seat option, docking lights, under-seat lighting, bimini top, custom cover, swivel wakeboard racks, custom engraved Vandall carpet insert , our new Deck-Trac non-skid pads, Stereo Option II, Plug N Play Ballast upgrade, AutoSet Wedge, depth finder, heater, and even the tricked trailer package! The Vandall Edition must be ordered complete, no removing of options or changes.

moombadaze
09-08-2011, 09:26 PM
think the Master Crafts have gone down hill in looks since around 94 or so, now-think there just to much in so many ways

you da man
09-08-2011, 10:11 PM
Have you seen the 2011 Vandall Edition? Verrrrry Niiice! Sexy Time!

2012 white powdercoat tower is sooooo nice. I heard the 2012 X-Star is bigger by a foot or two than the previous year X-Stars (maybe this was just a rumor). By the way...black boats are sexy
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/seeajgo/033.jpg

rdlangston13
09-08-2011, 10:16 PM
not sure what axis boats yall have seen that look/feel cheap. i have a buddy with a brand new A20 and everything on it feels more solid and better built than my LSV. that is everything except for the cup holders, the black plastic does not bother me, its the fact that the ones in the bow are too small for a beer with a coozie. it seems to me that axis makes a hell of a boat and id take one in a heart beat. moomba could learn alot from them. they both need to readjust their price structure. both are too expensive to be "value" options

as for mastercrafts, if i had a crap ton of money, hell yeah id buy one!

KG's Supra24
09-09-2011, 11:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAaWePnOwew

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 11:07 AM
Those are some very innovative new features that other boat manufactures can learn from.

Gotta love MC!

jmvotto
09-09-2011, 11:18 AM
Don't Know where my NBA jersey and my flat billed lid are??

pretty cool features.

KSmith
09-09-2011, 11:37 AM
After watching that video, if I had the money I'd get one of teh new 2112 XStars...

However, unless I win the lotto I'll be enjoying my Moomba for quite some time :-)

yager97
09-09-2011, 11:39 AM
Don't Know where my NBA jersey and my flat billed lid are??

pretty cool features.
hahaha good call. boat does look sick though, can't wait to hear what this thing is going to sell for in Canada. I bet the msrp on this sits somewhere around 155k.

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 11:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6hkaHm7sQA

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 11:41 AM
hahaha good call. boat does look sick though, can't wait to hear what this thing is going to sell for in Canada. I bet the msrp on this sits somewhere around 155k.

Probably.

I could buy an Audi R8 for that price.

New Guy
09-09-2011, 11:45 AM
I don't know about it. Lots of nice gadgets to play with but the lines on the hull are just ugly.

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 11:53 AM
I don't know about it. Lots of nice gadgets to play with but the lines on the hull are just ugly.

That is the only thing that bothers me too.

KG's Supra24
09-09-2011, 11:53 AM
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/299277_10150286012306752_315227661751_8115620_8646 8570_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313574_154771301277003_114229121997888_295190_2144 668201_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/305300_10150286009446752_315227661751_8115592_1703 784909_n.jpg


I'm really diggin it which means absolutely nothing because there is no way I could afford one. Wake looks massive! It's hard to deny that they are def the ones leading the industry in innovation.

jmvotto
09-09-2011, 12:23 PM
Wake looks massive! It's hard to deny that they are def the ones leading the industry in innovation.

Still they add three guys in the bow and a 750 in the walkway to get that wake.:confused:.............

you da man
09-09-2011, 02:00 PM
Still they add three guys in the bow and a 750 in the walkway to get that wake.:confused:.............

That's not bad for extra ballast. You have to consider the line length, speed, and wake needed for these guys to go that big. In order to do it...you need a good hull design and displacement. These guys are also in a very small percentile of riders so I'm sure the factory wake is plenty big and good.

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 02:10 PM
Those guys always need lots of bow weight.

It's the only way to clean up the wake at those rope lengths without increasing the speed.

bergermaister
09-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Pretty B.A. Kind of a fairy-tale for me to consider something new, but still fun to look at.

I missed the boat show last year but will definitely be going down to do some serious gawking this coming January!

viking
09-09-2011, 03:09 PM
DAMN - I love that boat! I'm with you KG.......they are definitely innovative. If money were no object I'd surely have one.
But since it is, I'm reduced to just drooling :)

brain_rinse
09-09-2011, 03:10 PM
Styling is totally subjective, but in my opinion this is a huge step up in overall design. I love the interior and the seating options, they made the tower look much better, and the black gelcoat hides the strange lines in the hull. And way less billet aluminum - finally! For the money I'd still choose a new Moomba LSV, a new tow rig, and 20k left over, but I'm not the XStar target market either.

bergermaister
09-09-2011, 03:15 PM
For the money I'd still choose a new Moomba LSV, a new tow rig, and 20k left over

Amen to that brotha

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 03:20 PM
I love the boat but I would never buy it. Not because of money but because its a pro level boat.

I am far from a pro and neither is my crew. I doubt the new x-star can produce a clean wake at 18mph and that is very important to me.

squeeg333
09-09-2011, 03:47 PM
That boat in black is sick. Just plain sick. The wrap on that has some serious detail, and no skulls!!! Awesome. The lines are different, and different always hits folks differently (kinda like the Mojo). But I would agree, money no object, I'd snag one. A power dash, how cool is that. Next thing you know it'll talk to you, just like Kit. However unnecessary a powered dash is, it's still awesome. And the seating options are sweet. I think MC's have done some cool things with seating over the years - some is WAY over the top, but some, like that option-able back seat, are a step forward.

I'm still blown away by how much they want for a boat, but, if people will pay it, why not charge that much! As much R&D and advertising that goes into MC's, you gotta pay for it somehow I guess!!

If Rusty says it's a big wake, it's a BIIGGG wake. Even at pro level lines lenghts, speeds, setups... if he says it's big, that's amazing...

you da man
09-09-2011, 03:55 PM
For the money I'd still choose a new Moomba LSV, a new tow rig, and 20k left over, but I'm not the XStar target market either.

and that's why we're in the Moomba forum and not the Mastercraft forum

brain_rinse
09-09-2011, 04:15 PM
You got it! :)

sandm
09-09-2011, 05:03 PM
I don't know about it. Lots of nice gadgets to play with


and not that it matters for their core customer, but lots of nice gadgets that cost a grip of cash when they break :)

RobertJ
09-09-2011, 05:33 PM
I love my Moomba. Of course the grass always does seem greener on the other side but it is still just grass. My Moomba has brought me priceless time with my family and friends.

deafgoose
09-09-2011, 05:38 PM
I love my Moomba. Of course the grass always does seem greener on the other side but it is still just grass. My Moomba has brought me priceless time with my family and friends.

It's been quite some time since Moomba has done anything exiting. They need to step it up.

New graphics and towers can only go so far.

c.rix
09-09-2011, 05:59 PM
meh....thats all I got to say

wolfeman131
09-09-2011, 06:01 PM
the triple tube across the top of the tower reminds me of the hillbilly pick 'em up trucks I see driving around here in GA. Maybe they can get some exhaust stacks that will automatically rise out of the sundeck too and go full redneck.

Mobius22
09-09-2011, 06:48 PM
It's been quite some time since Moomba has done anything exiting. They need to step it up.

New graphics and towers can only go so far.

Brand new boat this year?

wolfeman131
09-09-2011, 06:52 PM
Yep and it wasn't too long ago that the OBV was totally redesigned.

KSmith
09-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Yep and it wasn't too long ago that the OBV was totally redesigned.

Loving my NG OBV!!! I'd snag the new xStar if that kind of money were pocket change. If I were allowed to actually buy a new boat with my current financial base, I would probably go 22 or 242 Supra or maybe Tige... but as a new boat is not an option anytime soon, I am loving my NG OBV ;-)

moombadaze
09-09-2011, 08:44 PM
It's been quite some time since Moomba has done anything exiting. They need to step it up.

.

NGOB
Mojo
LSV-yes its been around since 06 but its still a great product

I think there doing a great job providing a wonderfull product at a resonable price--not a easy feat these days

not every one wants billet this and billet that

wolfeman131
09-09-2011, 08:47 PM
Is there a Tige dealer in Atlanta anymore? Gainesville Marina used to carry them and they had a booth at the boat show in Jan but I don't know that they are easily found around here. Well, other than the new RZ4 on Sinclair that specializes in tubing & power turns. Total arse!

KSmith
09-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Oh well I dunno, but the chances that I'd be on the hunt for a Tige anytime soon are pretty slim, real slim, so friggin slim if it turned sideways it'd be invisible... so I'm not gonna sweat it LOL

jpetty3023
09-09-2011, 11:04 PM
Holy cow moomba maniacs, 6 pages of discussion on the competitions products!...lmao. All the above mentioned boats are great but way to overpriced so I'm gonna hold solid for the MoJo (aka Momma's MoJo)

mnpracing
09-09-2011, 11:13 PM
Yep and it wasn't too long ago that the OBV was totally redesigned.

It received a new hull in 09 I think? When I was looking to replace my 06 OBV, I looked at the NGOBV and it seemed too-much-the-same for my liking...same unfriendly, small diameter front folding tower (front folding doesn't bother me, but folding over the bow does), same basic lines and color schemes, same basic materials on the interior, same feel, same fit. To me it was just a face-lift, and not a substantive change. In other words, not a change that warrants making the move to a newer version of the same model...just my opinion. My point is, the boat makers really have to make substantive changes to either hull or value-added amenities (not value as in dollars, but value as in I'll-actually-use-it) in order to drive people to trade-up. Moomba is due for a major change, but the Mojo wasn't the change I personally was hoping for. The pics I've seen of the other 2012 Moomba models seem to just be facelifts as well. From a business perspective, the goal should be to entice current owners to want a new model. Sorry, I just don't see the value proposition in the new 2012 models for Moomba.

Don't misunderstand, I really like my LSV, but the newer-than-06 models offer nothing that would entice a current owner to trade to a newer version of the same model IMO. Since 2012 didn't do it, it will be 7 model years with very little innovation.

maxpower220
09-10-2011, 02:49 PM
From a business perspective, the goal should be to entice current owners to want a new model. Sorry, I just don't see the value proposition in the new 2012 models for Moomba.

Don't misunderstand, I really like my LSV, but the newer-than-06 models offer nothing that would entice a current owner to trade to a newer version of the same model IMO. Since 2012 didn't do it, it will be 7 model years with very little innovation.

Just imagine being an Outback owner, decades with no innovation in hull design.

Grant M
09-10-2011, 03:57 PM
My 06 LSV gave my family 5 hours of quality affordable fun at our lake yesterday - nuff said!

Razzman
09-10-2011, 04:59 PM
Wow, all this chatter over an ugly, over-priced water limo. Geez :rolleyes:

maxpower220
09-10-2011, 06:21 PM
Went to the boat show today in Tampa.
First, stopped by Tige. They had RZ1,2,3 and RZR in2012 models. Nice boats with deep sides. Other than that, nothing really stuck out.

Nautique had a 210, and 230. I didn't like the exposed gelcoat between the back seat and the sunpad cushion. Seemed like it would not wear well.

Axis is a decent boat (first time in one) but that windshield and tower are placed in the wrong place. Especially for a drivers seat that doesn't bolster. Other than that, it was nice, but the price was $55K

MC had several boat. The 214V is a really neat layout boat. I liked the driver helm without a side and the cabinet entry on the passenger side of the walkthrough. Ilmor as the only engine is a turn off for me though. In a few years, when the engine and parts are as plentiful as Indmar/PCM/Mercruiser, then maybe I will change my mind.

rdlangston13
09-10-2011, 11:03 PM
That power dash is stupid. That is the only thing I really don't like. I like analog gauges and then a screen to go along but having the gauge pop out is dumb. Doesn't even look good.

jmb
09-11-2011, 07:35 PM
I agree, I had a great day today on the water with my Outback. It's paid for too. I don't happen to have $100 G's in my wallet. I am not a pro either.

jmvotto
09-12-2011, 09:50 AM
Just imagine being an Outback owner, decades with no innovation in hull design.

If it ain't broke, why fix it...

KG's Supra24
09-12-2011, 10:15 AM
That power dash is stupid. That is the only thing I really don't like. I like analog gauges and then a screen to go along but having the gauge pop out is dumb. Doesn't even look good.

I like analog gauges as well but I see the purpose in the dash. We were out with a Malibu owner last weekend (with a screen) and I noticed he was covering his dash with a towel in the evening in order to see at night.

bzubke1
09-12-2011, 12:42 PM
Went out on a 2012 f21 tomcat yesterday. The interior was so much more plush then our boats. I hate the whenever i spend some time in other boats i come back to mine and the interior always feels so cheap.

you da man
09-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Went out on a 2012 f21 tomcat yesterday. The interior was so much more plush then our boats. I hate the whenever i spend some time in other boats i come back to mine and the interior always feels so cheap.

I agree. A little more foam and heavier vinyl should not add too much $$$ to overall cost and would be worth it. I think the two things that makes the Moombas feel "cheap" is the interior (gauge of vinyl and carpet) and hull build (Moombas seem to "slap" in chop/rollers versus a solid "thump"). When boats of the same size are 800-1000lbs more...there's a build quality difference in there somewhere. Still though, SC does offer a very nice package at an affordable price. I think other brands are just stepping up their game faster than SC.

rdlangston13
09-13-2011, 09:38 AM
Went out on a 2012 f21 tomcat yesterday. The interior was so much more plush then our boats. I hate the whenever i spend some time in other boats i come back to mine and the interior always feels so cheap.

I agree with that. And those mb f21s are about the same price as a moomba too I believe. I rode in a 2011 the other day and everything on it looked so much nicer than mine and the owner only paid 42 for it. I think part of it also has to do with our boats are a 2008s and we are comparing them to 2011s and 2012s

LakePerson1952
09-13-2011, 01:22 PM
... To me it was just a face-lift, and not a substantive change. In other words, not a change that warrants making the move to a newer version of the same model...just my opinion. My point is, the boat makers really have to make substantive changes to either hull or value-added amenities (not value as in dollars, but value as in I'll-actually-use-it) in order to drive people to trade-up. Moomba is due for a major change, but the Mojo wasn't the change I personally was hoping for. The pics I've seen of the other 2012 Moomba models seem to just be facelifts as well. From a business perspective, the goal should be to entice current owners to want a new model. Sorry, I just don't see the value proposition in the new 2012 models for Moomba.

Don't misunderstand, I really like my LSV, but the newer-than-06 models offer nothing that would entice a current owner to trade to a newer version of the same model IMO. Since 2012 didn't do it, it will be 7 model years with very little innovation.

In my humble opinion, there is a fundamental problem with the view that "the the goal should be to entice current owners to want a new model." My view is that the goals should be to
1. keep current owners happy with their investment, and
2. entice new owners to want a new model.

Many on this forum may not be old enough to remember but for decades the Volkswagon bug changed little to none from year to year. Owners were very happy with the quality of the product. Bugs were low priced, AND ran forever, AND held their value, AND sold by the boat loads. When the bug began to change substantially from year to year, the quality went down, prices went up, resale value dropped, and market share dropped - then when the US changed emission standards VW decided they no longer had the market share to justify the redesign required to keep them on the road.

Certainly if there is a needed change, or even one that gives such an advantage to effectively be a "needed change" then by all means make it. But change for the sake of change costs a lot of money (greater end product cost usually coupled with lower quality to keep from increasing the price too much) for no really good reason. And a product like a car or boat that changes significantly every year does not retain its value well so it is not a good investment in the long run. The whole "planned obsolescence" concept is flawed. In my view, keeping a customer happy with the investment s/he made will result in very loyal customers who promote the value to others who may become customers and will result in current owners being more likely to purchase a new version of the same make when it becomes time to do so whenever that may be. Even with such a policy, many will choose to upgrade every few years just because they prefer to have "new" but even they benefit due to enhanced resale relative to the boats that change often and lots.

I'm a new Moomba owner but if Moomba had followed the "normal" (by today's standards) policies of simply making a change in the hopes that a current customer will decide to get a new boat only because the newer ones are different, then I probably would not be a Moomba owner - I would have, instead, purchased the used Malibu that first got me into the dealer.

Just my 2 cents worth.

By the way, I am not saying that I wouldn't make some changes "off-the-shelf" for the Moomba. I think the factory (optional) depth finder is lacking as compared to many on the market. There are some minimal redesign features I'd prefer too (the cruise control loosing it's setting when the boat is turned off, the cowling needs to be removed to check the oil, a couple more). But the base hull is sound. It handles waves and chop better than most boats out on the water. The wake on my Outback is better for slaloming than any boat I can remember that I've skied behind. It is comfortable. It looks VERY good (I get compliments almost every time I take it out). It is fun. The bottom line for me ...

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

mnpracing
09-13-2011, 03:02 PM
In my humble opinion, there is a fundamental problem with the view that "the the goal should be to entice current owners to want a new model." My view is that the goals should be to
1. keep current owners happy with their investment, and
2. entice new owners to want a new model.

Many on this forum may not be old enough to remember but for decades the Volkswagon bug changed little to none from year to year. Owners were very happy with the quality of the product. Bugs were low priced, AND ran forever, AND held their value, AND sold by the boat loads. When the bug began to change substantially from year to year, the quality went down, prices went up, resale value dropped, and market share dropped - then when the US changed emission standards VW decided they no longer had the market share to justify the redesign required to keep them on the road.

Certainly if there is a needed change, or even one that gives such an advantage to effectively be a "needed change" then by all means make it. But change for the sake of change costs a lot of money (greater end product cost usually coupled with lower quality to keep from increasing the price too much) for no really good reason. And a product like a car or boat that changes significantly every year does not retain its value well so it is not a good investment in the long run. The whole "planned obsolescence" concept is flawed. In my view, keeping a customer happy with the investment s/he made will result in very loyal customers who promote the value to others who may become customers and will result in current owners being more likely to purchase a new version of the same make when it becomes time to do so whenever that may be. Even with such a policy, many will choose to upgrade every few years just because they prefer to have "new" but even they benefit due to enhanced resale relative to the boats that change often and lots.

I'm a new Moomba owner but if Moomba had followed the "normal" (by today's standards) policies of simply making a change in the hopes that a current customer will decide to get a new boat only because the newer ones are different, then I probably would not be a Moomba owner - I would have, instead, purchased the used Malibu that first got me into the dealer.

Just my 2 cents worth.

By the way, I am not saying that I wouldn't make some changes "off-the-shelf" for the Moomba. I think the factory (optional) depth finder is lacking as compared to many on the market. There are some minimal redesign features I'd prefer too (the cruise control loosing it's setting when the boat is turned off, the cowling needs to be removed to check the oil, a couple more). But the base hull is sound. It handles waves and chop better than most boats out on the water. The wake on my Outback is better for slaloming than any boat I can remember that I've skied behind. It is comfortable. It looks VERY good (I get compliments almost every time I take it out). It is fun. The bottom line for me ...

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Why would a person buy a new 2012 LSV, when the '06/'07/'08 are essentially the same? For sake of conversation, here's a few things that would have made me really consider a new LSV:

1. Different swim platform more suited for surfing (narrower, corners cut, flat bottom, better mounting, etc).
2. Factory depth gauge that works like my aftermarket hummingbird (i.e. all the time).
3. A more sturdy trailer with better axles and beefier tubing.
4. A standard tower that fits in a 7' garage door. I believe the optional tower does, but alas it costs extra.
5. Heavier with deeper draft.
6. Better v-drive compartment walls to support heavier bags.
7. Under-floor quick fill ballast. (alternative to, or in addition to #6)
8. A cooler that works, or just eliminate it.
9. Just generally improve the build quality. Thicker 'glass, better structure supporting the dash.

I've currently been eyeing the Centurion SV211, but I haven't seen it in person yet, pricing, is it really a smaller Enzo hull, etc.

We primarily surf and wakeboard a little, but the Mojo is too long, ugly and utilitarian-looking for my needs/wants. So bottom line is that I don't see anything in the Moomba lineup that is driving me to the dealership. And if current owners trade-up, then that allows others to buy a used boat. That's how more get in circulation. The people that can, buy new and pass along a good used boat to someone who doesn't want/can't buy new. I bought an '08 with 50 hours because the 2010's had nothing new. Old owner bought another brand...

you da man
09-13-2011, 03:40 PM
Why would a person buy a new 2012 LSV, when the '06/'07/'08 are essentially the same? For sake of conversation, here's a few things that would have made me really consider a new LSV:

1. Different swim platform more suited for surfing (narrower, corners cut, flat bottom, better mounting, etc).
2. Factory depth gauge that works like my aftermarket hummingbird (i.e. all the time).
3. A more sturdy trailer with better axles and beefier tubing.
4. A standard tower that fits in a 7' garage door. I believe the optional tower does, but alas it costs extra.
5. Heavier with deeper draft.
6. Better v-drive compartment walls to support heavier bags.
7. Under-floor quick fill ballast. (alternative to, or in addition to #6)
8. A cooler that works, or just eliminate it.
9. Just generally improve the build quality. Thicker 'glass, better structure supporting the dash.

I've currently been eyeing the Centurion SV211, but I haven't seen it in person yet, pricing, is it really a smaller Enzo hull, etc.

We primarily surf and wakeboard a little, but the Mojo is too long, ugly and utilitarian-looking for my needs/wants. So bottom line is that I don't see anything in the Moomba lineup that is driving me to the dealership. And if current owners trade-up, then that allows others to buy a used boat. That's how more get in circulation. The people that can, buy new and pass along a good used boat to someone who doesn't want/can't buy new. I bought an '08 with 50 hours because the 2010's had nothing new. Old owner bought another brand...

Your list of wanted improvements seems very reasonable IMO for a hull that is great in overall shape but can use a little updating/upgrading. Although I don't see SC going to a gravity fed ballast system too soon. Things like redesigned platforms and slightly better electronic should not add much to the overall price. However, more structure and/or hull material probably would. As for the new SV211 I think i heard high 50's into the upper 60's depending on options

moombadaze
09-13-2011, 04:01 PM
I think part of it also has to do with our boats are a 2008s and we are comparing them to 2011s and 2012s

I agree, it does seem to me lots of us have the 08 models.

deafgoose
09-13-2011, 04:24 PM
I agree, it does seem to me lots of us have the 08 models.

Not much has changed from 2008 to 2012.

Like mnpracing said; I don't see anything in the Moomba lineup that is driving me to the dealership.

There are MUCH better choices for the money.

maxpower220
09-13-2011, 04:29 PM
If it ain't broke, why fix it...

Actually, there are several reasons. 1st, the Outback never had the a top rated slalom wake. So the boat was never a leader in that catagory. So, price is the only factor in sells. 2nd, if you change the hull every 5-7 yrs, the company can market "new". This may bring people in to buy a new boat. 3rd, if you aren't the leader in a boat catagory and you never change, you will never be a leader.

kaneboats
09-13-2011, 04:35 PM
[This was at the post 2 above, not the one directly above.] I don't agree with this at all. The LSV got a new hull in 2006 and it has proved to be just about the perfect boat. It does everything well. In the last few years, rather than changing the hull for no reason, they have focused more on interior features, ballast system, towers, etc., offering more each year. The OBV got a full redesign in 2009. It has also become the do everything boat the LSV is, but in a smaller version. In the last couple of model years we have seen new tower offerings, etc. on that one. For next model year there is a whole new model coming. I am pretty happy with the choices I see from Moomba, and if I wasn't I'd look at the Supras. On the other hand there are a couple of other mfg out there trying now to compete with Moomba. A couple of their choices are decent but none are without flaws or ugly factor or both.

deafgoose
09-13-2011, 04:41 PM
There is still lots Moomba can offer to keep their heads above water.

One feature that is a deal breaker for me is snap-in carpet. My next boat will have it.

wolfeman131
09-13-2011, 05:27 PM
There is still lots Moomba can offer to keep their heads above water.

What makes you think SC is even at the point of having to tread water?

Most companies that are having a difficult time with their bottom line don't engage in R&D or marketing. Others have already posted a few examples such as the new OBV hull design, Supra 242 and upcoming Mojo. SC also continues to have the lead sponsorship on many of the major watersports events.

mnpracing
09-13-2011, 05:55 PM
What makes you think SC is even at the point of having to tread water?

Most companies that are having a difficult time with their bottom line don't engage in R&D or marketing. Others have already posted a few examples such as the new OBV hull design, Supra 242 and upcoming Mojo. SC also continues to have the lead sponsorship on many of the major watersports events.

I took deaf's comment in light of keeping up with the competition...if I didn't know any better, I would think you were employed by SC. Come to think of it, I don't know any better...

LakePerson1952
09-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Why would a person buy a new 2012 LSV, when the '06/'07/'08 are essentially the same? .....

For almost 30 years, that question could have been asked about the VW Bug (and Van for that matter). VW had a large market share on new vehicles in the Bug class for many years until they started doing what other manufacturers did and the prices went up while the quality and residual value went down.

In general, there are people who will almost always buy new. There are people who almost always buy used and the reason may or may not be because they can't afford new. And there are people who look for value and buy new or used based on their perception of the value.

For what it is worth, I normally buy new cars because the quality is generally low and I don't expect a used one to last so I buy reliability (such as it is). A recreational vehicle, like a boat, can go either way for me but I do place limits on the max I will spend for any given item. In July, I went into my local dealer to look at a 90's Malibu because I'd decided I really wanted a real "ski" boat but wasn't willing to pay my perception of the new price and going used I was willing to pay even less so I was looking at a very old boat. Just for grins while I was there, I asked the dealer how little I could get away with on new. I was blown away! My "perception" of the cost was based on Mastercraft etc pricing and I couldn't believe the price he gave me on the Outback. A week or so later I drove out pulling my new Outback and become more pleased with it every time I take her out. I've had her just under 2 months now and have put almost 50 hours on her.

Related to this, most people that I know that buy new cars do not buy the same model as the one they trade-in - and those who do are the type of people that just want a new car all the time. In my opinion, if your '08 LSV is not meeting your needs, don't try a '11 LSV - try the '11 Gravity (or whichever one meets your needs). If your '08 LSV is meeting your needs and is reliable, why do you want a different one?


..... And if current owners trade-up, then that allows others to buy a used boat. That's how more get in circulation. ..... Old owner bought another brand...

Yes, if an owner gets a new boat it allows someone to buy that used boat but it may or may not result in more of a particular brand "in circulation". If a manufacturer maintains quality and value, which is difficult when a model changes so much over a few years as to be almost unrecognizable, then the consumer perception of value can be something that makes him/her "want" to buy the same brand again. VWs, for example, did have a following that bought new time after time. In the current climate, however, while there are some who are "loyal" to a particular car manufacturer, the majority are as likely as not to buy a different brand when they get a new car. By your own statement, the person who owned your boat bought a different brand.


..... I bought an '08 with 50 hours because the 2010's had nothing new. .....

Then you probably saved a bundle over what a new one would have cost and got a good boat. If, however, you had your heart set on a Gravity then you probably would have had to go new. If Moomba radically changed their boats yearly then the costs of engineering, molds, tooling, testing, compliance, inventory maintenance, etc. would add very significantly to the cost of the boat because they wouldn't be amortized over nearly as long ... and if the price went up a lot then buying a used boat might be your only option ... and if Moomba was a brand that changed radically annually and followed normal procedures, quality would suffer so the 2 year old boat you were able to buy would be much less in quality than you saw in your '08. I guess I just don't understand your problem. I dare say that everyone on this forum has some odds and ends that they'd change if they had their druthers - I'd also say that the list for Mastercraft and other owners would be just as long and they paid double what we paid. But the bottom line is that if you're not happy with your boat then you should get another. If it is Moomba you're not happy with then you should get the one that best fits your needs. I suspect that you'd need to go much older with MC and the like to be at the price point you got on your LSV. If Moomba was focused on the "bling" like MC then you'd have needed to go much older on the Moomba to get the same price.


..... The people that can, buy new and pass along a good used boat to someone who doesn't want/can't buy new. .....

See first comment above. Also, many people who "can" buy new will also keep a boat for a VERY long time - me for instance.



Your list of wanted improvements seems very reasonable IMO for a hull that is great in overall shape but can use a little updating/upgrading. Although I don't see SC going to a gravity fed ballast system too soon. Things like redesigned platforms and slightly better electronic should not add much to the overall price. However, more structure and/or hull material probably would. .....

I'd say many on the list of improvements are reasonable and could be offered as upgrades or options. I, for one, doubt that I'd want some of the changes specified such as the tower change - I like mine. Some of the changes, like the depth finder, would be good and would be minimal cost delta to Moomba and 100% of the cost would be borne by the consumer that chooses the option. I agree that the redesigned platform would not add too much cost but adding a liitle here and a little there and some more over here to the Base Cost is just how MC and others got to the $$$ level they are. I also agree that messing with the hull would add a lot.

As I said in my other post, I would change a few minor things but overall my assessment of the boat is that "it ain't broke".

wolfeman131
09-13-2011, 07:12 PM
I took deaf's comment in light of keeping up with the competition...if I didn't know any better, I would think you were employed by SC. Come to think of it, I don't know any better...

Nope, I'm not employed by SC but I am employed by a small company that has had to take some drastic measures to keep our heads above water. So, I guess I'm a bit sensitive to "off the cuff" remarks such as those when the facts don't support.

rdlangston13
09-13-2011, 07:36 PM
One thing they need to do I believe to the LSV is redesign the dash/helm area. move the ballast switches up and in sight so you dont have to bend over and look down to flick them to make adjustments on the fly. also strengthen the dash. have you ever looked under your dash? im amazed mine has not broken off yet. i go have some thin glass supports that are broke and i guess im going to have to gorilla glue it back together?

mnpracing
09-13-2011, 07:56 PM
One thing they need to do I believe to the LSV is redesign the dash/helm area. move the ballast switches up and in sight so you dont have to bend over and look down to flick them to make adjustments on the fly. also strengthen the dash. have you ever looked under your dash? im amazed mine has not broken off yet. i go have some thin glass supports that are broke and i guess im going to have to gorilla glue it back together?

The thin dash supports was what I was referring to in my post above. The holes they cut in the fiberglass to fit the main switch panel and the ignition area are way too big, leaving only really narrow lengths of fiberglass to support that area. They cut mine so close, the bottom runs of fiberglass on both sides of the steering wheel have broken. I used a fiberglass repair kit to lay some cloth/resin back over that area. It's stronger now than it was from the factory, however the whole area is still supported by just the 4" wide piece of fiberglass-covered board running underneath the dash, so the whole dash area has a lot of give and flex to it...again I just don't understand the poor workmanship...

mnpracing
09-13-2011, 08:15 PM
Nope, I'm not employed by SC but I am employed by a small company that has had to take some drastic measures to keep our heads above water. So, I guess I'm a bit sensitive to "off the cuff" remarks such as those when the facts don't support.

All good discussion guys, I know I'd find issues with other brands as well. Some of this stuff about build quality, and such are conscious decisions made by manufacturers, just like cars, dishwashers, shoes, etc. I just loathe reasoning that goes something like "other brands have issues too"...to me that's a cop-out. I am truly interested in the decisions that do get made and why (why are the dash supports weak, why are the hulls thinner than Centurion or MB, etc). If those were conscious decisions, I'm interested in understanding the reasoning. If the answer is to save cost, it costed me time and money to try to fix it (or treat the symptoms) and would have been significantly more to have a 'glass shop or the dealer do it. If the answer is that they think the design is strong and stable, then why did it break, etc.

Generally speaking I'm content with my boat, I just don't understand why certain no-brainers (to me) were not considered or addressed in subsequent model years. I do see improvements (or at least changes) in ballast, etc, but why not perfect what you have. The analogy I use is dial tone. I don't really care if you're offering me 3-way calling, if when I pick up the phone, there is no dial tone. So I don't care that there are SS cupholders or a new steering wheel or MoombaVision if the dash supports break (just the example I keep coming back to, don't mean to focus on it). I'm a simple guy, and I expect the basics to work as advertised.