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View Full Version : How do you keep a ballast bag from emptying?



zroutt
09-11-2011, 12:16 PM
Mostly this is about my center/basement bag and that after filling it up and surfing for about a half an hour I see that it has leaked or emptied some water out the drain? When filling, and its full it starts leaking out the drain hole that the drain pump uses. Does this mean my drain pump is bad and allows it to drain?

How to prevent this from happening?

moombahighrider
09-11-2011, 12:50 PM
It's normal for water to push past your drain pump, when the bag gets full. That is what i use as my indicator that the bag/s are full.

On my boat the center door pops up because the bag overfills the space. As far as loosing water while you are surfing, does it just loose enough that the center door stays flat in the floor or do you loose more than that?

moombahighrider
09-11-2011, 12:55 PM
I just realized/ remembered that your boat has that huge locker and maybe you have no problem with the bag being pressured by the top hatch or door. You may need to play with a anti-siphon valve for the center sac, even though it should not be necessary with the gIII system.

cab13367
09-11-2011, 01:11 PM
I'm assuming you have the stock GIII system with the single fill pump and three sprinkler valves on the fill side. If you are losing water from your basement bag, then I doubt you are losing it thru the drain hole since your drain fitting should be higher than your bag, even when listed over for surfing. So I would suspect that you have a faulty sprinkler valve that is not fully closing, allowing water to leak out thru the fill side. Does it also autofill when underway, even if you have the switches off? You might just try swapping the valve with either your port or starboard one, one that you know you are not losing water through, and see if that fixes it. If so, then it's the sprinkler valve and you should be able to get a new one at HD or Lowes.

And yes, it's normal for water to overflow out the drain fitting once your bag is full. The water has nowhere else to go so it's being pushed thru the drain pump and out the drain fitting.

zroutt
09-11-2011, 05:10 PM
Thanks for all the responses.

Yes I have the stock fill system for the GIII but I have just recently replaced the sprinkler valves. Yes it does drain out the drain port on the port side of the boat while in motion. It is a slow trickle but with the system off and I have finished filling the basement locker (it doesn't lift the walk through btw), it will continue to trickle out of the drain hole even while sitting still. :(

What is this anti-siphon valve?

My winter project is to go to a true three pump system, one pump drain and fill for each bag. Will this alleviate the draining issue I experience? Its not that its a huge deal but having to fill up the basement locker again at about a half hour of surfing to get the pocket right and clean up the wave, is a little annoying. Maybe I just chalk it up to a beer break? LOL

Thanks

08LSV
09-11-2011, 06:23 PM
Here is a "Vented loop anti siphon valve". It should be mounted in line in your drain line up under the helm/bow seat area. Make sure it is mounted higher than the drain thru hull in the side of the boat. You can get it from wakemakers for like $28.00. I had to put four of these in when I did my tsunami upgrade. One thing I did also was swithched the drain lines to the opposite side of the boat from the bags they were connected to. My 1100 v drives would slowly drain out while surfing. After draining to the opposite side of the boat I didn't have any leaking issues anymore.

http://www.wakemakers.com/3-4-inch-vented-loop.html

12174

zroutt
09-11-2011, 06:33 PM
Hmmm, good to know. I like the idea of re-routing the drains to the opposite sides of the boat especially for surfing. I don't need competition wakes for wakeboarding, the wake we get with just the basement filled is awesome for all of us. The main thing we are doing is surfing. So by draining on the opposite side of the boat when listed over should prevent it from draining. Then put one of these anti-siphons up front and under the helm sounds like it will take care of the basement draining. Good tips 08LSV!

Since we mostly surf port side should I change the side of the basement drain to starboard?

08LSV
09-11-2011, 06:42 PM
Since we mostly surf port side should I change the side of the basement drain to starboard?

You could. Mine drains on the Starboard (Drivers side). The problem is that if you drilled another thru hull and ran drains to the other side (Starboard) the original thru hull (Port) will be left open and could allow water into the boat. Especially if you have your boat weighted on that side... Maybe you could find a way to plug it. I think the Anti Siphon Loop is the best/easiest way to go first. Just my opinion. There are others here with way more knowledge than me. Cab is a good resource for aerator systems. His works well the way he has it designed.

zroutt
09-11-2011, 06:55 PM
You could. Mine drains on the Starboard (Drivers side). The problem is that if you drilled another thru hull and ran drains to the other side (Starboard) the original thru hull (Port) will be left open and could allow water into the boat. Especially if you have your boat weighted on that side... Maybe you could find a way to plug it. I think the Anti Siphon Loop is the best/easiest way to go first. Just my opinion. There are others here with way more knowledge than me. Cab is a good resource for aerator systems. His works well the way he has it designed.

True, but I was thinking I would swap my bilge and basement drain thru hulls and put a check valve on the bilge drain. What do you think about a check valve on the bilge?

08LSV
09-11-2011, 06:59 PM
Yeah. I think it is never a bad idea to have check valves when there is a hole in the side of the boat were water can come in. If your swapping those two you might not even need the "Loop".

jmvotto
09-12-2011, 08:40 AM
The drain pump could be the issue if the pressure of the 1180 is pushing through the drain pump. A check valve or loop probally wont help if the drain pump is not holding the water back. Try a new drain pump. Or swap a rear pump to see if it has the same issue.

bergermaister
09-12-2011, 10:02 AM
Fellas, don't you mean you should have the vented loop on the Fill pump, not the Drain pump? Since the drain typically runs to a high point on the boat to exit you don't need to worry about the siphon effect. With the fill pump at the low point on the bottom of the boat, that's where you can pick up the siphon effect.

I have vented loops on all 3 fill pumps. Drain pumps exit to opposite sides of the hull. Vent lines have check valves so no water comes back in from the drain lines which are shared before they hit the thru hull exit. No auto-fill/drain issues at all.

08LSV
09-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Fellas, don't you mean you should have the vented loop on the Fill pump, not the Drain pump?

I think he said he could see the water leaking out of the drain for that bag on the side of the boat, check the fifth post. I had the same problem when the boat was leaning hard over to one side for surfing when I got my 1100's. There could also be some water pushing back past the fill pump. I just thought if he could fix the problem he can see first it could help him rule out one of the two places the water could go.

Jmv. The problem with aerator pumps is that they cannot hold back water on their own without a valve or loop, it will pass right through if allowed. I think he is still using the stock Rule pump with sprinkler valves and the valves should
not let any water pass through.

zroutt
09-12-2011, 12:40 PM
I think he said he could see the water leaking out of the drain for that bag on the side of the boat, check the fifth post. I had the same problem when the boat was leaning hard over to one side for surfing when I got my 1100's. There could also be some water pushing back past the fill pump. I just thought if he could fix the problem he can see first it could help him rule out one of the two places the water could go.

Jmv. The problem with aerator pumps is that they cannot hold back water on their own, it will pass right through if allowed. I think he is still using the stock Rule pump with sprinkler valves and the valves should
not let any water pass through.

That was my thought/expectation. But at this point I am open to all suggestions. Kinda sucks though, I am thinking maybe only two more weekends of boat use before its time to winterize. :(

In the end though what I have a feeling I am going to do is go to a three pump no sprinkler valve setup as also being discussed in this How To area. I want faster fill with less issues of electronics.

08LSV
09-12-2011, 01:54 PM
In the end though what I have a feeling I am going to do is go to a three pump no sprinkler valve setup as also being discussed in this How To area. I want faster fill with less issues of electronics.

If your going to use aerator pumps like the Tsunami's send Cab13367 a pm. He has a good setup that works well and is cheaper than the reversible pumps. I tried to go that route but it didn't work well for me so I just finished my upgrade with the reversible pumps. I probably should have gotten with Cab first to try and iron out my aerator system first. Could have saved some money, but I am glad I went the way I did.

bergermaister
09-12-2011, 04:41 PM
Only a couple boating trips left - grab yourself some wine corks - whittle them down as needed - stuff those drain holes. Done!

Just remember to pop them out before you drain! I did the wine cork thing for a short while when my drains/vents went out the rear of the boat with my 400lb sacs and they'd drain themselves.

Then you can worry about the more elaborate plumbing changes when the weather's cool.

08LSV
09-12-2011, 05:02 PM
Only a couple boating trips left - grab yourself some wine corks - whittle them down as needed - stuff those drain holes. Done!

Thats the best fix I've ever heard of! LOL!

bergermaister
09-13-2011, 12:12 AM
I think I stole that idea from DocDrs if I recall - it was a while ago... Worked like a charm though!

"Damn we lost a cork" - you know what that means... time crack open another bottle. Seems we lost a couple dozen corks that summer. ;)

jmvotto
09-13-2011, 09:57 AM
Jmv. The problem with aerator pumps is that they cannot hold back water on their own without a valve or loop, it will pass right through if allowed. I think he is still using the stock Rule pump with sprinkler valves and the valves should
not let any water pass through.

The 1180 could just be that bigg of a beast to have that pressure, my 750's and center 400 or 650 ibs don't have enough pressure to push thru without the fill pump pushing them, i think its a worn out pump IMHO, the loop and check valve wont do anything if there is enough pressure to push past the drain pump...what would really stop it after the pump , it will eventually push out a cork as well, if the at much pressure exists

08LSV
09-13-2011, 03:28 PM
it will eventually push out a cork as well, if the at much pressure exists

At least they could have fun trying to drink enough wine to keep that hole filled with corks... :p

jmvotto
09-13-2011, 04:02 PM
At least they could have fun trying to drink enough wine to keep that hole filled with corks... :p

Aboslutely

VA LSV
09-16-2011, 12:36 PM
Had the same issue, center bag loosing water when surfing. Installed a 3/4" pvc ball valve in the center sac drain line in the port locker. Fill the bag, close the valve.

zroutt
09-16-2011, 12:43 PM
Had the same issue, center bag loosing water when surfing. Installed a 3/4" pvc ball valve in the center sac drain line in the port locker. Fill the bag, close the valve.

Genius! Its the simplest ideas that work so well.

I also like the cork idea. We have plenty sitting around as my wife loves wine. I just pull off the keg. Speaking of kegs. Just gave me another idea.

Build a keg holder into the boat for ballast. Beer and ballast all at once. Nice :D

wolfeman131
09-16-2011, 01:10 PM
You just have to surf early!

jmvotto
09-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Had the same issue, center bag loosing water when surfing. Installed a 3/4" pvc ball valve in the center sac drain line in the port locker. Fill the bag, close the valve.

Your center locker bag drains through the port locker? mine drains rights behind the helm...... good easy fix, but stuill think its a drain pump issue.

bergermaister
09-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Interesting - have yet to experience unwanted draining through a drain pump. Back through the fill pump because of the siphon effect yes. Or the vent line due to listing hard sure. Have you loaded up the ballast, then just cruised and watched the ports to see where it's coming out? That's how I ended up narrowing down to the fill pump and having a clogged/stuck fitting in the vented loop on mine... Didn't see water leaking anywhere, must be coming out underneath.

VA LSV
09-18-2011, 10:54 AM
My center bag drain line runs with the fill line on top of the gas tank to the bilge at the v-drive, up into the rear locker and exits on the port side. SC moved it to the starbord side at the helm in 06. Fill the center bag and the 750in the port locker, wake plate 75% up put the drain lower than the bag allowing the weight of the water to overcome the drain pump and leak out as you surf. Adding the valve was easier than moving the drain.