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Ed G
09-17-2011, 08:26 AM
Here's another one of my opinion posts that will get more crap thrown on me - but as you all know by now - I don't care and like being brown.

Seems like a trend is happening where people come on here talking about getting rid of their Moomba's and purchasing another brand of boat.


Don't you think promoting a competitor of Skiers Choice should not be allowed on a website owned by Skiers Choice?

This statement "The quality of Axis boats is higher than Moomba." should have been removed immediately.

It doesn't belong on the Moomba website, it belongs on WakeWorld

Doesn't this bother anybody else? It pisses me off.

One of the so called "Forum Guidelines" is:

*Moderators reserve the right to delete posts promoting products that directly compete with Skiers Choice, or are unrelated to the purpose for which this forum was created and to suspend or terminate posting privileges after any infraction.*

I believe it should be enforced and kudos to the brave moderator who does it.

rdlangston13
09-17-2011, 08:56 AM
i think post like this are necessary, especially since rick T and SC reps frequent the boards. they need to know where they are lacking based on the competition and if it is true it is true. consider it constructive criticism

skiyaker
09-17-2011, 10:03 AM
there's a fine line between comparing and contrasting features of different boats. For example- if I'm a prospective buyer and I post a question "I've skied/wakeboarded behind boat X and I'm thinking of buying a moomba LSV- how do the wakes compare?" then that would be a useful discussion for this board. But Ed I agree that for our purposes here of discussing our boats there's little utility of posting "I'm buying a different brand of boat and it's better than a Moomba" and if I owned the site I would remove that post immediately.

KSmith
09-17-2011, 10:45 AM
I'm with Ed on this one. If your perception is that your Moomba sucks so bad, good luck selling it and don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.. Really sick of the brand bashing and whining. You think the Moomba brand sucks so bad fine, unless you can provide some useful topic for discussion take your opinions and yourself to wakeworld and good riddance.

I agree with skiyaker, comparisons are fine, compare wakes or whatever cool, compare features fine, compare anything objective no problem, discuss a new mod of problem you've come across certainly, you just want to pound your chest and exclaim how much more wonderful your new brand is, great do so then leave, enjoy your new brand and the problems that you will encounter with it...

Why bother to frequent a forum of a product that you have no interest in, move on over to your new brand forum...

Since that 2008 OBV sucks so bad, I'll give you 5 grand for it as that is pretty much all I'll drop on a POS boat....

maxpower220
09-17-2011, 12:47 PM
Also, it's one thing to make a comparison on something that you have knowledge. Looking at a boat at the dealer isn't the same as years of ownership. Ownership is where issues happen, not window shopping. I have yet to have to take in a showroom floor model boat for maintenance or repair.

Since May of 2008, I have had ZERO failures, issues, or breakages. Other than black residue coming off of the platform, my Moomba has been 100% reliable.

If you want another brand of boat, great. Go buy it. Whatever the reason, great. I have no ill feelings, I have no brand loyalty. However, making up statements with no facts while bashing a company that is sponsoring the very forum you want to bash, that isn't going to fly. I looked at Axis, Malibu, Nautique, and MC at the boat show last weekend. They all looked like very nice boats, with a lot of great features. They all also looked to be priced at over $55K to well over $100K.

DOCDRS
09-17-2011, 01:44 PM
I agree with this post as well. I have made the appropriate changes. This will no longer be tolerated by myself. I fail to see the reasoning in a lot of these blanket statements. It shows how little most owners know about their boats. The manufacturers for the most part use all the same parts. The engine in a malibu is the same as axis as mastercraft as moomba as supra and other manis. teleflex ,medallion, jabsco, walters, etc are used on a wide range of boats...... failures occur everywhere. Don't blame the product on your inability to negotiate the deal you want , do you research and stop whining. Yes ,ask questions and you will receive help. If you can't perform your own service then you should buy from your closest dealer and yes you should expect to pay more. If you are not getting good service then deal with it in a civilized manner with your shop or go elsewhere.

I hopped on a new 100 k malibu at a friends cottage and they said the stereo isn't working all the time and they had to take it to the marina..... I asked if they wanted me to take a look at it? 1 minute it took to find the loose connection under the dash... press it together tape it and done.....but I showed them where it was so if it happened again they could have tunes up n running again ......should this happen on a new 100k boat? sh*t happens , they didnt bash malibu nor would I over a cheap .50c connector. They have $ so they can't be bothered to look but I'd rather have things working right away. They need their dealer, I don't. So thats why they choose to pay twice as much for their boat as I did. They really like my 21v and thought it was bigger than their 23 lsv and I liked their boat

jimmylsv
09-17-2011, 01:54 PM
I agree, I come here to look at Moomba Topics, I have a 2006 Lsv all the options great boat. No problems. I dont mind a few picks of the competions boats. But to come on here and blab about a competitors boat realy is not the place. The place for those discusions is Wake-World. I think it puts Rick and Skiers Choice in an awkward position. They should not be the people suggesting to have topics deleted. The rules are clear. Moderators need to trim the posts that sell the competitors boats. Enough Is Enough. Just less talk about it and do it!

sandm
09-17-2011, 02:30 PM
great call out ed.
I have no issues comparing black and white issues between brands of boats, and hope that skiers choice looks at what the marketplace is looking for in new boats, but to compare quality is all subjective and should not be on here...

thanks ed and for whomever removed it..

Reese350
09-17-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't have a Moomba anymore but still love the company/brand/experience with the 4 that I've owned and frequently recommend them to friends based on my experience. Nothing but positives from my experiece but does that mean I'm not welcome to read/contribute to this site anymore just because I bought a different boat? Sure starting to feel that way. Until recently, Moomba has always felt like that "all are welcome" and "no worries" brand without the elitist/purist culture. Very different from some of the others, that's what I've always loved about it. It's disappointing to see that eroding because I thought it was an admirable attribute of the company/community...

rdlangston13
09-17-2011, 04:58 PM
i dont recall anyone saying anything about engine quality, ballast pump quality, or any of that junk.

jmvotto
09-17-2011, 05:06 PM
Ed, glad you stated what i was feeling this am on othwr boats. Good to see so pros and cons from peoples point of view but baseless atacks are uncalled for on this forum?

Imho.

501
09-17-2011, 06:28 PM
Bashing Moomba is not fair on a moomba forum, I'll give you that, but opinions are fair as are comparissions. When I bought my XLV new in 2008, there were no new boats with that much size (23ft) for around the 50k mark. It was almost an easy decision because of how much value you got for your money. But now there are other options over the past 4 years. I got quoted $72k for a 2011 XLV at the Matsercraft/Moomba demo days. That is $20k more then I paid in 2008 and there were NO significant upgrades. I realize I could barter on that price, but $72k was not a fair price by any means and i think all of you can agree that is not a "price point" boat.

So to me, it was people talking about boats like the A22 that got moomba to design a boat like the Mojo. They listened to the people. To me it is a perfect size boat, has all the features of Moomba that I like (nicer interior, storage, etc..) and if the price is right, I think it will be a great option for boarders. A big feature of the Mojo will be the wake. It will need to be first class to draw me in but if it is, it will be hard to look at other boats. I like the look of it and I like the size and features. I guess a test drive is necessary.

It's a good thing we have Ed on the Internet to keep all of us inline.

zabooda
09-18-2011, 12:50 AM
I totally agree with Ed. We have people saying one boat is better than another with no factual information. If the caveat of "In my opinion" is placed in the sentence then we can take it for what it is worth. I found little information except one article from a 2009 JD Powers evaluation. Without any unbiased evaluations, all you can go on is which one is selling more as majority rules. People can have opinions but their criteria for comparison is different than someone elses. I would say the first step for the competition is to be recognized by JD Power.


http://www.jdpower.com/boats/ratings/ski-wakeboarding-boat-ratings/

Ed G
09-18-2011, 09:21 AM
Scott...

"but does that mean I'm not welcome to read/contribute to this site anymore just because I bought a different boat? "


No, absolutely that is not the case.

Of course all are welcome no matter what boat you own and making comparisons IS a valuable tool.

Point I'm trying to make is...well, let's use an anology

how would you like it if I came onto the AutoCAD forums stating:

"AutoCAD sucks. I'll never use it again. SolidWorks is much better"

Even if I didn't use AutoCAD anymore (not the actual case), it was good to me, it was a stepping stone and I would have enough respect for the company to watch what I said - while on their dime.

e

skiyaker
09-18-2011, 10:15 AM
Scott...

"but does that mean I'm not welcome to read/contribute to this site anymore just because I bought a different boat? "


No, absolutely that is not the case.

Of course all are welcome no matter what boat you own and making comparisons IS a valuable tool.


e

shoot for a while we even had a malibu owning moderator- how's that for inclusive?

mmandley
09-18-2011, 11:34 AM
This whole thread just adds to the same drama we have had for the last 6 months. If theres a rule and the moderators arnt stoping people from doing something about it then maybe theres a reason.

I know a particular person who breaks the rules over and over and the mods cant do a thing about it.

But at the end of the day drama is what is killing this forum. I really do mean Killing this forum.

Ed G
09-18-2011, 11:39 AM
"shoot for a while we even had a malibu owning moderator- how's that for inclusive?"


LOL!

The Moomba public knew that, and we moderators didn't...untill he was "outed" by a member.

Kyle is a good guy and continues to visit us here.

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 01:37 PM
ed i think you analogy is bogus. i dont ever recall reading a post that said "Moombas suck, I'll never buy one again. X brand is better"

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 01:40 PM
I totally agree with Ed. We have people saying one boat is better than another with no factual information. If the caveat of "In my opinion" is placed in the sentence then we can take it for what it is worth. I found little information except one article from a 2009 JD Powers evaluation. Without any unbiased evaluations, all you can go on is which one is selling more as majority rules. People can have opinions but their criteria for comparison is different than someone elses. I would say the first step for the competition is to be recognized by JD Power.


http://www.jdpower.com/boats/ratings/ski-wakeboarding-boat-ratings/

you link pretty much says skiers choice in general sucks lol. i am not saying that but the ratings on that site for SC lines are not very good against anyone by tige

Ed G
09-18-2011, 03:41 PM
"ed i think you analogy is bogus"

That's fine. We are all entitled to our bogus opinions.

Keep in mind one of the definitions of "analogy" is:

the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language.

a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

I've certainly met that criteria.

loudsubz
09-18-2011, 04:05 PM
heres a thought... why not just ignore it and go on with your life?

There will always be people hating on something that one or another owns and will be butt hurt from it. Nobody can function through life hoping they own everything that is highly rated from everyone else, from the shoes we wear, to TV's we watch, to the toohbrush we use every night.

Sometimes I find this forum to be much for me and I just don't come back. I get out and enjoy my life with the things I have and don't worry about what others say.

DOCDRS
09-18-2011, 04:09 PM
funny how if you delve a little deeper into the JD power ratings, they are different when you go to there overall competitive boat ratings....wonder why they wouldn't be the same??

http://www.jdpower.com/Boats/ratings/overall-boat-ratings/

Ed G
09-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Does anyone really make a purchase based on what JD Powers blows out their hole?

I'd rather hear recommendations based on owners experiences

maxpower220
09-18-2011, 07:55 PM
I'd rather hear recommendations based on owners experiences

Actually, JD Powers uses owners inputs. http://www.jdpower.com/ratings-guide/

They use a forumula to take owners data to make their ratings, but it is from us. I know that I have filled them out before.

lsvboombox
09-18-2011, 08:34 PM
heres a thought... why not just ignore it and go on with your life?


u'm with u. Why piss and moan about it. Ignore it and move on.....

Ed G
09-19-2011, 06:11 AM
Ah yes, the new boat surveys! The ones where they promise us the "Goody Bags".

Now I remember doing a couple. :)

As far as this thread goes, Doc the Super Moderator stated:

"I agree with this post as well. I have made the appropriate changes. This will no longer be tolerated by myself. "

That statement put closure on the issue for me and I congratulate Doc for having the yutz to stand up and take action, knowing he may take heat for it down the road.

LakePerson1952
09-19-2011, 09:51 AM
To add my 2 cents to this, I am generally against censorship without extreme justification. There are threads on this forum that in my opinion have no place being on a boating site of any kind or associated with any manufacturer but they are here and obviously there are some who feel they are beneficial - even if I don't.

Certainly an anti-Moomba thread could cross a line of "good taste" or even "beneficial discussion" but generally I see no reason to delete them unless the arbitrary but real line is crossed. Having said that, I am generally one who supports the Moomba in the threads in question. Personally I think it is silly for someone to come on a boating site devoted to a particular brand just to say that they're going somewhere else but I wouldn't usually support censoring.