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View Full Version : What improvements would you like to see Moomba make to their boats??



rdlangston13
09-17-2011, 12:30 PM
I am a fan of the Moomba brand and I have a great deal of brand loyalty but all that aside, what are some ways you feel your boat could be improved from the factory at a minimal cost to the manufacturer? I enjoy my LSV but there are some features I have seen on other makes that I think are really neat, inexpensive, and would help make Moomba more competitive in today tow boat market.

For starters I have a 2008 LSV.
1. Move the Gravity III switches up to make them more easily accessible. Maybe make the switch panel on the dash larger to accommodate these switches?
2. Use a different material for the dash, it seems that grayish material they use is a little fragile and prone to scuffing/tearing/pealing very easily. I have some rash marks on mine.
3. Add a little more structure to frame work of the dash, it feels flimsy and after looking up in there I know why...
4. Add transom seat for putting boards on.
5. Add LED interior accent lighting.
6. Use Seadek for the swim platform (i think they are doing this now)
7. Have an option for precut SEADEK on the gunwales and around the bow light. Maybe even have a logo in the pattern.
8. More cupholders
9. Swivel drivers seat
10. Playpen bow with room for the big sack
11. Hard tanks with the gravity fill system like MB accompanied by a PNP system.
12. A less weight sensitive hull, wider beam?

KSmith
09-17-2011, 12:57 PM
I have a 2010 OBV so my responses would be in regards to the 2009 or newer OBV.

I like RDs ideas of 1, 4, 9.

Seadek seems to be getting used on the swim platform already or at least as an option as the ones at the wakeboard tour in Acworth had Seadek.

I also like the items 5, and 7 for options, perhaps a Moomba model specific Seadek package for gunnel tops, the Moomba Roo or Moomba lettering as a design in the Gunnel Seadek wolc be cool. Perhaps if the boat was prewired for additional LEDs would be nice if it didn't come stock with more LED lighting.

Hard tanks would be great, I'd love to see that, but not a deal breaker if it can't be done either..

I'd like the cup holder and speaker recesses in th emain cabin to be taller so taller drinks like aluminium water bottles, could be more easily set into the cup holders without having to do the tilt it sideways, lift the top up into the cavity above the recess, twist to stand bottle up and then slide into cup holder.

Everything noted above is stuff that would be nice to have. I can live without it, but if it were part of the stock package or available as an option would be nice.

My number one wish list item for the NG OBVwould be a tower option capable of mounting the Z5 to... Oh if only there were a way...

Oh, and a ski pylon that can be dropped like the Supras have.

But once I start looking over the list I see the easy way to get a good amount of those options is to get a Supra...

There is a point that is reached when loading a price point boat with options and such that suddenly you have priced the boat beyond price point and into the more expensive and more lavish product line...

sandm
09-17-2011, 02:35 PM
nothing that will keep driving the price up. all boat makers should try to drive costs down and try to get boats into the hands of as many as possible. the more the sport grows and the more boats skiers sells, the more r&d can be done for better/different hull designs and new models.
if skiers was selling 4x the boats they are now, then new models like a limited dd waterski boat become feasable(not that I would ever buy, but there is a market for it)..

501
09-17-2011, 06:36 PM
I get the price thing but a swivel on the drivers seat and some more interior LED lighting is NOT expensive. I added both to my XLV for under $100. If we are not talking 15k-19k new cars, trying to save a few $$$ makes a difference in the overall price, but we are talking $50k+ boats so in my opinion those little things don't add up to much cost but add a lot of value. For a $50k-$60k boat I come to expect it really. Just my opinion.

WaterBullDawg1980
09-17-2011, 07:24 PM
If you are really wanting to be fair, then you cannot assume that Skiers Choice is going to use the same process for adding a swivel seat and LEDs that we used when we installed them in our boats. Come on. That's more labor time, R&D spent on a solid design, raw materials, training for the people doing the install, time paid to the engineers (or time away from what they are doing currently), time spent trying to figure out the new production time to quote dealers.......just off the top of my head. Not saying that it should add that much to the overall price and I agree with a few of the things mentioned as far believing some of them should be standard with a 50K boat purchase. That being said, I think we need to all try and understand that there is a lot more that goes into adding some of the options mentioned when looking at it from a Skiers Choice perspective.

ian ashton
09-17-2011, 07:56 PM
The only thing that I think they need to do is get rid of the carpet floors and offer a finished surface with snap-in mats. Everything else is great. The new towers look good, fit and finish is great. All the other stuff is unnecessary and ads cost.

All of the other stuff is easy enough to add after the fact, hell thats a large part of the fun of boat owning, however ripping the carpet out and making the floor not look like hell is a bit more than just a project.

KSmith
09-17-2011, 08:01 PM
The only thing that I think they need to do is get rid of the carpet floors and offer a finished surface with snap-in mats. Everything else is great. The new towers look good, fit and finish is great. All the other stuff is unnecessary and ads cost.

All of the other stuff is easy enough to add after the fact, hell thats a large part of the fun of boat owning, however ripping the carpet out and making the floor not look like hell is a bit more than just a project.

I'd like that, finished floor, snap in carpet. It does make me wonder however as I never really looked under any of the snap in carpets, but say for my NG OBV if I wantedto pull the gas tank I can remove the section of flooring to get to it pretty easily. So I wonder if it'd be as easy on a finished floor boat... I have no idea but it does make me wonder

jmvotto
09-17-2011, 10:56 PM
I think ksmith, hit it on the head earlier. With all these extra additions. Just step up and buy the supra.

For me i want my loaded chevy surburban LTZ. Its not the GMC line or the Cadillac line.its still a chevy.

rdlangston13
09-17-2011, 11:08 PM
supras are for people who want the screen in the dash that does a million diff things, tricked out trailers w/ rims, the fancy shiny looking steering wheel, the retractable ski pylon, the rear seat that pull forward and has the back rest that pops up from the front, and prettier vinyl.

if you spend 50k on a boat i believe all the things i mentioned should be included or at least options for a relatively low cost.

aslo R&D on those items could not possibly be that much and once you do it you dont have to pay for it again until you come out with a new model, and even then you have templates to start with so it only gets cheaper in time...but it seems these things keep getting more expensive.

i understand that boats are hand made and due to their low production numbers they do not make as much money on them as say cars because they simply dont have the volume, but i have a hard time believing that they really cost THIS much to make. i mean, what is it really? a motor, tiny drivetrain, and fiberglass...more R&d and technology and gizmos go into a ford focus than a boat

i dunno, maybe im just bitter about not being able to afford a new boat. this is not a moomba bash, i think all boat manufacturers are on crack. especially chaparral. they try to sell their "wake edition" i/o for 90k!!

501
09-18-2011, 03:10 AM
I agree with RDlangston13 on all accounts.

And I DO NOT believe any R&D or high costs are involved with adding a seat swivel (I picked mine up at Wallmart for $9.99) at the factory. Extra LED's would require some extra labour but they are already installing LED courtesy lights anyways. To be honest the LED's I added was my favorite addition to my boat and I enjoyed doing it so i guess it wouldn't matter to me if we they came pre-installed. But a swivel seat is kind of a great feature for not a lot of expense. They should be standard.

jmvotto
09-18-2011, 08:30 AM
501 i agree that the swivel seat should at least be an option, as well as a few others but i want a price point boat to do all the water basics extremely well, like ian stated. The newer boats have come with al upgraded engines excat type engines which used to be an option. Another 2500. Try pricing out the The 400 + hp engine. It could add 7500 to the bottom line. The new tower options are pretty pricy as well. The new standard ballast systems went from a couple hundred bucks in parts to now about a grand or so all standard. I think you can even order a alternate prop mfg now.

Rd you can trick out a moomba pretty well with wheels fulton jacks leds on the trailers.

I would agree on a better options menu since the boats are pretty much made to order.

Ed G
09-18-2011, 08:46 AM
I'm on board with moving the ballast switches up. That would be fantastic.

And mount the bilge pump where it is easy to get fingers on both sides of the housing.

Mine's right up against the fuel tank, and really hard to remove from the mounting base when you need to clean it.

Leave snap-in carpets an option. I like the non-removable carpet just fine

The vinyl is hot enough - I don't want to be stepping on a 400 degree steel snap.

mmandley
09-18-2011, 11:27 AM
supras are for people who want the screen in the dash that does a million diff things, tricked out trailers w/ rims, the fancy shiny looking steering wheel, the retractable ski pylon, the rear seat that pull forward and has the back rest that pops up from the front, and prettier vinyl.



I guess i fit into this statement. As of right now my next boat will have to have more bling and i have played with several of these Touch screens on several different makes of boats and i have to say i really like them.

It takes a lot of work teaching someone how to set the boat up the way you want it when you ride, and when your riding a wave and trying to tell them to adjust things its just frustrating at times.

I cant say the top boats in my list of my next boat to buy and why they are such, as i might get banned due to the Hate thread on talking about other boats on this forum.
I can say im really disapointed in this forum over the changes that have been made, the drama that has happened and the lack of true power by our current moderators, it just doesnt feel like the ole Moomba forum anymore. I used to say id always be a Moomba owner because of the forum but now it seems things are changing. I still visit here once every few days but i used to be here several times a day. Sad but true.

cab13367
09-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Move the Gravity III switches up to make them more easily accessible. Maybe make the switch panel on the dash larger to accommodate these switches?


RD, you can move them yourself. I did - here is the how to in it: http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?5668-Relocate-Ballast-Switches&highlight=relocating+ballast+switches

As to your question, I personally think that the Moomba brand is losing sight of it's roots, and that is to provide a value based towboat that provides what you need and not much else. When I bought mine new in 2006, it had very thin carpet, plastic cupholders and grab handles, basic stereo, and no interior courtesy lights but it had all the basics in a well laid out package and that was just fine with me. And no one else could come close to their price. Now they are adding more and more features as standard and consequently, the price has gone up significantly and there are now other comparable options at the same price range.

I do agree that moving the ballast switches up above the armrest should be a no cost change and especially now that they did away with the side trim panel, it should be a no brainer. Also, a swivel seat would be a nice convenience that I think would add very little to the cost of the boat. Other than that, I really can't think of anything that that they should add as standard as it will just drive up the cost of the boat.

I do wish that they would offer as an option a retractable or removeable ski pylon. We are always hitting ourselves on mine but can't remove it since we use it for towables. That's the one thing about my boat that I don't like.

So while a lot of the things mentioned in this thread would be nice to have, I don't think any of them are needed. I would prefer that Moomba built the LSV today the same way that they did in 2006, then have an extensive list of optional equipment (group them in packages to make them easier to manage like they are already doing to some extent) to choose from at a fair price. For example, a "Stainless appearance package" could include stainless grab bars, rub rail, cupholders, and thru hulls. A "convenience package" could include a removeable ski pylon and swivel board racks. An "electronics upgrade package" could include a depth finder, Perfect Pass and LED courtesy lights/accent lighiting. More expensive options such as the V2 tower and snap out carpet could be stand alone options.

Oh, and I strongly oppose going to hard tanks. One of the things I love about my LSV is the giant rear ski lockers. They are bigger than on my one brother's 24' Tige and my other brother's MC X25. I put anywhere from 1 to 4 wakesurf boards in one locker and up to 4 wakeboards plus all the lifejackets in the other when we head to the lake. I don't always use the rear bags so I like the option of using the lockers for storage or for ballast depending on the situation.

Also, an under floor ballast system would be nice but I am sure would be expensive and I would only want it if it was in addition to a ballast bag based system as the underfloor systems don't have much capacity from the ones I have seen. So I would end up having to add ballast bags anyway.

Al

cab13367
09-18-2011, 01:05 PM
It takes a lot of work teaching someone how to set the boat up the way you want it when you ride, and when your riding a wave and trying to tell them to adjust things its just frustrating at times.


Really?? I just fill the ballast, tell everyone where to sit, set the wakeplate all the way up, and set the Perfect Pass at 10mph and I get a consistent, repeatable wave every time. Is that really so hard to do? I know you have Moomba Cruise instead of PP so it's not quite as easy.

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 01:20 PM
Mr g/f refuses to set moomba cruise lol. when ever i ride she makes me drive the boat to speed, set it, then keep the boat idling while i put my board on and get in the water. perfect pass WILL be on my boat by next summer

mmandley
09-18-2011, 01:24 PM
Really?? I just fill the ballast, tell everyone where to sit, set the wakeplate all the way up, and set the Perfect Pass at 10mph and I get a consistent, repeatable wave every time. Is that really so hard to do? I know you have Moomba Cruise instead of PP so it's not quite as easy.

Yes its harder to do on mine because when you run as much weight as mine and then you add people you have to make adjustments. I have learned a lot this summer about how i expect my wave to feel under the board and some days its 10.5 and others its 12mph and some times everyone needs to sit on the surf side and other days you have to many people and some need to sit center or opposite side. i can look at my wave and see it looks clean but then jump on the board and theres no push, or the board feels slow in the water. Then i ask for a little more speed, or a little less speed, a little more wake plate or a little less till i get that feel i want.

Since i learned how i want my wave to feel and how to to tell my driver what i need i have been able to go rope less most of this year at will. I have been able to ride each wake board and really understand what im feeling riding it sue to knowing what my wave should feel like.

My boat and the weight i run in it isnt as simple as fill 2500lbs everyone sit on one side and drive 10.5mph. I have to dial the wave in depending on how many people are in the boat as this also effects how much weight i put in the opposite V drive bag. I have even been learning to ride switch side surfing this year so i can make sure Claudia gets a quality wave and now she is learning to tell me when she wants adjustments made. Last time at LBC she rode 3 pulls with more then 1.5 miles of distance covered i expect due to were we started and finished and this was because with a solid wave and tons of push she doesnt get as tired and shes now able to slack the rope and i expect next season she will be ropeless.

mmandley
09-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Mr g/f refuses to set moomba cruise lol. when ever i ride she makes me drive the boat to speed, set it, then keep the boat idling while i put my board on and get in the water. perfect pass WILL be on my boat by next summer

I can respect her wishes but at the same time Claudia does this to an extent. I always get the boat to the speed i want and then look at my RPMs. Then i idle down get ready and in the water. I tell my drive take me to X RPM and hit the Cruise. Then after that its simple.

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 01:32 PM
I can respect her wishes but at the same time Claudia does this to an extent. I always get the boat to the speed i want and then look at my RPMs. Then i idle down get ready and in the water. I tell my drive take me to X RPM and hit the Cruise. Then after that its simple.

i already know that with the gIII full, wake plate at half, and just her in the boat that i need about 3100 rpm to get 22 mph which is what i ride at, she knows that too but she doesn't like to mess with it lol i dont mind setting it but i will welcome PP also

mmandley
09-18-2011, 01:47 PM
i already know that with the gIII full, wake plate at half, and just her in the boat that i need about 3100 rpm to get 22 mph which is what i ride at, she knows that too but she doesn't like to mess with it lol i dont mind setting it but i will welcome PP also

I hear ya man lol. We will prolly upgrade eventually to PP but more so that i can resale the boat and make it more markatable.

cab13367
09-18-2011, 02:01 PM
Yes its harder to do on mine because when you run as much weight as mine and then you add people you have to make adjustments. I have learned a lot this summer about how i expect my wave to feel under the board and some days its 10.5 and others its 12mph and some times everyone needs to sit on the surf side and other days you have to many people and some need to sit center or opposite side. i can look at my wave and see it looks clean but then jump on the board and theres no push, or the board feels slow in the water. Then i ask for a little more speed, or a little less speed, a little more wake plate or a little less till i get that feel i want.

Since i learned how i want my wave to feel and how to to tell my driver what i need i have been able to go rope less most of this year at will. I have been able to ride each wake board and really understand what im feeling riding it sue to knowing what my wave should feel like.

My boat and the weight i run in it isnt as simple as fill 2500lbs everyone sit on one side and drive 10.5mph. I have to dial the wave in depending on how many people are in the boat as this also effects how much weight i put in the opposite V drive bag. I have even been learning to ride switch side surfing this year so i can make sure Claudia gets a quality wave and now she is learning to tell me when she wants adjustments made. Last time at LBC she rode 3 pulls with more then 1.5 miles of distance covered i expect due to were we started and finished and this was because with a solid wave and tons of push she doesnt get as tired and shes now able to slack the rope and i expect next season she will be ropeless.

Gotcha but I got the impression from your post that having a boat with the fancy touchscreen was going to somehow fix this issue for you. But maybe I got the wrong impression.

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 02:13 PM
As to your question, I personally think that the Moomba brand is losing sight of it's roots, and that is to provide a value based towboat that provides what you need and not much else. When I bought mine new in 2006, it had very thin carpet, plastic cupholders and grab handles, basic stereo, and no interior courtesy lights but it had all the basics in a well laid out package and that was just fine with me. And no one else could come close to their price. Now they are adding more and more features as standard and consequently, the price has gone up significantly and there are now other comparable options at the same price range.



i have no problem with not having fancy features, but the price should reflect that and these boat should be closer to 30k than 50k. i would love to have a LSV with plastic cup holders, plastic run rail, analog gauges, no interior lights, plastic grab handles, and only the essentials to ride, ballast, PP, and a wakeplate. But to me, that is a 35k dollar boat.

My post was meant to express that since the boats are 50kish now then they should have 50k worth or stuff on them and i feel my list is all relatively inexpensive. i dont mind not having all those items, but the boat should not cost 50k and NOT come with them

i just look at 50k bucks and then think of how i could buy a brand new f150 fx4 eco boost all leather with almost every option for that much and it is loaded with way more gadgets and technology than even some of the MOST advanced boats. and even a 15k plain jane ford foucs has cats... just doesnt add up to me.

bzubke1
09-18-2011, 02:30 PM
I totally agree, moomba hasn't done anything substantial to add to the price of the lsv but it's gone up a lot since 2006. The only thing that really gets on my nerves about my boat is how thin the foam on the seats is. I'm not heavy(170lbs) and my butt always goes down to the seat base, it's just not comfortable to sit for a long period of time. I know this hasn't changed cause I checked out the 2011's at my dealer. Also has anyone noticed how you can feel the square that comes up on the engine cover portion of the sunpad?

I checked out an axis vandal edition this weekend at a competition I was at and that hull is thin. I was pounding on the side of the hull and it actually flexed like the panel on a car does. I only did this cause I did it on my boat before I left and wanted to compare but was really surprised how much flex there was.

mmandley
09-18-2011, 02:38 PM
Gotcha but I got the impression from your post that having a boat with the fancy touchscreen was going to somehow fix this issue for you. But maybe I got the wrong impression.

No i dont think a touch panel will do anything to make my boat better or fix any frustrations. It would how ever make me be comfortable spending 20K for a newer model. So to me if you expect me to drop 50K on a boat i want Digital stuff touch screens and more bling. 40K is exactly what i expect from my boat the way it is.

You want another 10K i need need to see it in things i can touch and brag about.

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 02:38 PM
i dont have a problem with thin foam except for the driver seat bolster when it is flipped up. but i know exactly what you are talking about with the engine cover square piece

Razzman
09-18-2011, 10:02 PM
Of course the price has gone up, so has everything else too! That's just the way it is and has always been. It's still the cheapest quality wake specific boat you can buy regardless. You want a price point boat but want all the amenities of a more expensive ride? Doesn't work that way.

And for the record, there's R&D on everything done to a boat, car, plane, toaster, whatever. Seat bases have to be redesigned, ergonomics have to be considered. There's way more than just slapping on a swivel and calling it a day. My $10 swivel is wearing out already, squeeks & wobbles and annoys the hell out of me, not to mention the seat is still too high for my liking, get it? Snap out carpets? Yes it will add cost which you will pay for. Floor finishing, bordered carpets, stainless snaps and labor to do them. It all adds up.

And as for dash's, they've been made that way forever. What do you need substance behind the dash for, gonna sit on the thing? Ever looked behind some of the $70, 80 and 90K boats panels? They're made the same way I hate to tell you guys. Some mfgrs will put rubber molding around the ragged edges, who cares? My buddies Nautique looks just like my Moomba behind all the fluff, mine does it cheaper is all. Btw, his 75K Nautique, the seats feel like concrete to me. Lot's of pretty, not worth the price. We took his side panels off to do the stereo and guess what? Jagged cutouts, a couple of mis-drilled holes, it's no better.

I have no complaints about my boat, It's never failed me, does what I want, makes everyone happy but in the end it's just a boat. There's no such thing as the perfect boat, car or whatever.

brain_rinse
09-18-2011, 11:00 PM
I had fun customizing the boat after I bought it. Some things just aren't cost effective or as easy to customize after the fact, so if I were building myself a new LSV I'd want to have the following. Most of these could be options.

Finished fiberglass floor/snap out carpet
Denser foam in the seats
Thicker vinyl
Transom seat
Center hard tank ballast like the Mojo
Swivel drivers seat
Playpen bow

WaterBullDawg1980
09-18-2011, 11:21 PM
Of course the price has gone up, so has everything else too! That's just the way it is and has always been. It's still the cheapest quality wake specific boat you can buy regardless. You want a price point boat but want all the amenities of a more expensive ride? Doesn't work that way.

And for the record, there's R&D on everything done to a boat, car, plane, toaster, whatever. Seat bases have to be redesigned, ergonomics have to be considered. There's way more than just slapping on a swivel and calling it a day. My $10 swivel is wearing out already, squeeks & wobbles and annoys the hell out of me, not to mention the seat is still too high for my liking, get it? Snap out carpets? Yes it will add cost which you will pay for. Floor finishing, bordered carpets, stainless snaps and labor to do them. It all adds up.

And as for dash's, they've been made that way forever. What do you need substance behind the dash for, gonna sit on the thing? Ever looked behind some of the $70, 80 and 90K boats panels? They're made the same way I hate to tell you guys. Some mfgrs will put rubber molding around the ragged edges, who cares? My buddies Nautique looks just like my Moomba behind all the fluff, mine does it cheaper is all. Btw, his 75K Nautique, the seats feel like concrete to me. Lot's of pretty, not worth the price. We took his side panels off to do the stereo and guess what? Jagged cutouts, a couple of mis-drilled holes, it's no better.

I have no complaints about my boat, It's never failed me, does what I want, makes everyone happy but in the end it's just a boat. There's no such thing as the perfect boat, car or whatever.

We couldn't agree more. Folks just assume that since it is so easy for us to make changes, that it should be easy for Skiers Choice to make the changes on every boat they put out! Just doesn't work that way. Say they made the changes to put a swivel seat in like on your boat, and it started doing the same thing yours is doing now. Can you imagine how folks would yell and scream about the "poor quality" etc??

I would like some insight into why the price has gone up as much as it has for a new Moomba. I would like to see how it has gone up in comparison to the other brands. Have they all gone up the same percentage or close to it? I know for a fact that Mastercraft and Nautique have went up considerably. I have a buddy who is looking to get rid of his X-10 bc he cannot afford a new Mastercraft any longer and couldn't justify the price for all the bling. Also would be interesting to see how material costs have went up for Skiers Choice as well as the rest of the builders.

These are factors we just do not know but can only assume. From what I have read, nobody is taking these factors into account. I for one have no idea how much these costs have went up, so I am not going to pretend to be able to justify an increased cost in the boats. But I am smart enough to look deeper into it and just not assume that we are being gouged by the man.

That being said, I do like the learning and trying the customizations myself. The only thing I can think of that would be nice as standard, would be the ballast switches moved up. Also, I do not think it would be too much to ask if they could put a little wine cooler with a teak top behind the driver. Am I asking to much to have a place to store and then serve a nice glass of Argentina's finest wine? :confused:

wolfeman131
09-18-2011, 11:36 PM
I was wondering about the same issues as, in my business, I have had to deal with significant materials cost increases. So, this may not be the exact resin that goes into fiberglass, but it gives you an idea of what SC may be dealing with.

In 2006, the cost of resin was around $1.00 per pound. In 2011, the cost is now $1.49. Do the math and that is a significant increase. Who knows by what percentage Indmar, Boatmate, the foam supplier, etc have increased their price to SC, but just like bread, milk and beef - that cost has been passed on to the consumer.

source: http://www.plasticsnews.com/resin-pricing/hprices.html

jmvotto
09-18-2011, 11:42 PM
K
I was wondering about the same issues as, in my business, I have had to deal with significant materials cost increases. So, this may not be the exact resin that goes into fiberglass, but it gives you an idea of what SC may be dealing with.

In 2006, the cost of resin was around $1.00 per pound. In 2011, the cost is now $1.49. Do the math and that is a significant increase. Who knows by what percentage Indmar, Boatmate, the foam supplier, etc have increased their price to SC, but just like bread, milk and beef - that cost has been passed on to the consumer.

source: http://www.plasticsnews.com/resin-pricing/hprices.html

Drew. Well said. The newer engines as well as the newer ballast pumps with timers are part of the diff between 06 and 12.

rdlangston13
09-18-2011, 11:49 PM
costs may have gone up for SC, like I said I am not blaming SC, ALL the manufacturers are on crack with pricing and maybe it is due to the suppliers in which case i will say the suppliers are on crack with pricing. The economy is in the tank but boats just keep getting more expensive. I think part of the problem is people are willing to pay it...

and R&D on a swivel seat is not expensive, im sure there is a supplier who ALL they do is make swivel seats for boat applications. a slight redesign of the seat to get the height right and you got it.

i also never said i want the bling factor at a price point price. to me 50+k is not very price point but i guess campared to 100+k MC and CC it is?

i guess im jealous of people who can buy blinged out boats but i still dont see why they are so expensive. you can buy a house for cheaper than a wakeboat. think about THAT.

jmvotto
09-19-2011, 12:14 AM
A 2011 21 ft four winns i/ o msrps for 49950. its across the board.

501
09-19-2011, 12:23 AM
I see people justifying price increases. I get it. Please explain how in 2008 a XLV fully loaded was low 50's and now they are in the low 70's with no improvements other then minor changes such as ballast pumps and stereo? If you do the math that is almost a %10 increase per year. To me that is too much. It's happenning across the board according to some. At the demo days there was an X25 and it was $102k. WTF! Its a wake boat. I am in the market for a new boat so I am going to wait till spring to see the mojo and see what kind of a deal I can swing.

jmvotto
09-19-2011, 12:33 AM
Levi, sent you a pm but your box is full. I think 72k is msrp. I remember looking at a 2008 xlv holder that was middle of the road with an msrp arou.d 58k if my memory serves me correct.

deafgoose
09-19-2011, 12:36 AM
I see people justifying price increases. I get it. Please explain how in 2008 a XLV fully loaded was low 50's and now they are in the low 70's with no improvements other then minor changes such as ballast pumps and stereo? If you do the math that is almost a %10 increase per year. To me that is too much. It's happenning across the board according to some. At the demo days there was an X25 and it was $102k. WTF! Its a wake boat. I am in the market for a new boat so I am going to wait till spring to see the mojo and see what kind of a deal I can swing.

My local Mastercraft dealer wants $90K for an X-2. lol

Razzman
09-19-2011, 12:36 AM
costs may have gone up for SC, like I said I am not blaming SC, ALL the manufacturers are on crack with pricing and maybe it is due to the suppliers in which case i will say the suppliers are on crack with pricing. The economy is in the tank but boats just keep getting more expensive. I think part of the problem is people are willing to pay it...

and R&D on a swivel seat is not expensive, im sure there is a supplier who ALL they do is make swivel seats for boat applications. a slight redesign of the seat to get the height right and you got it.

i also never said i want the bling factor at a price point price. to me 50+k is not very price point but i guess campared to 100+k MC and CC it is?

i guess im jealous of people who can buy blinged out boats but i still dont see why they are so expensive. you can buy a house for cheaper than a wakeboat. think about THAT.

Exactly the point, compared to some of the other guys, it's price point. Let's take my boat for example, '07 LSV. I bought my boat at dealer cost and saw the dealer invoice, even in '07 the MSRP for my boat was $46K and it wasn't fully loaded, didn't have PP or the tower speakers! Now I know many will say "I never pay MSRP!", fine, but that's not the point. The point is $50K is probably less than a 10% increase over four years, makes no difference what you payed or will/did negotiate.

Now look at the new X-Star, expected to cost well over $100K and you have to ask yourself what makes it worth that much, or any wakeboat for that matter. You did, John Q Public. Plain and simply supply and demand. Popularity made wakeboats as much as they are and as long as there is demand and people are willing to buy them, they will be expensive. Malibu, Correct Craft, Tigé, Mastercraft and others do have better materials in cases, but $50K worth! No.

jmvotto
09-19-2011, 12:42 AM
Saw an x 15 two years ago go out at 59 with the list of 93.
Same dealer had a 10 supra 21v , list of 72 went out the door at 50.

Same dealer sells cc and they seem to walk out the door at near list of 80k and higher. Go figure

wolfeman131
09-19-2011, 08:18 AM
I see people justifying price increases. I get it. Please explain how in 2008 a XLV fully loaded was low 50's and now they are in the low 70's with no improvements other then minor changes such as ballast pumps and stereo? If you do the math that is almost a %10 increase per year. To me that is too much. It's happenning across the board according to some. At the demo days there was an X25 and it was $102k. WTF! Its a wake boat. I am in the market for a new boat so I am going to wait till spring to see the mojo and see what kind of a deal I can swing.

Levi, there is a lot that goes into cost other than product improvements. One example is health care cost for SC employees. Group insurance in the US has risen drastically during your comparison years. Along wit materials costs, these other hidden costs get passed to us, the consumer. Businesses must maintain their bottom line and we consumers bear their cost increases.

jmvotto
09-19-2011, 10:35 AM
Levi, there is a lot that goes into cost other than product improvements. One example is health care cost for SC employees. Group insurance in the US has risen drastically during your comparison years. Along wit materials costs, these other hidden costs get passed to us, the consumer. Businesses must maintain their bottom line and we consumers bear their cost increases.

Drew good point. HC for my employees goes up and avg of 12 to 15% every year for the lat 10 years.... Ouchie

wolfeman131
09-19-2011, 10:38 AM
JV, you are doing great @ those rates. But, I think you have a service company where with our manufacturing based company, we have incurred double those rates. It totals to a huge sum.

KSmith
09-19-2011, 10:58 AM
The sky rocketting cost of oil has hit hard in the materials realm over the last few years as well. Vinyls, resins, carpets, plastic components, etc. all depend oil. The higher cost of fuel also plays into it, transportation costs go up, and on and on...

Oil goes up, refined petrolium products go up, material products go up, transportation cost go up, final complete boat product goes up...

501
09-19-2011, 02:41 PM
It seems like everyone is ok with paying that much more for their new boat I guess. I just don't think the prices have to go up AS much each year. Cars and trucks don't go up $5k/year. I know, I know, they sell way more, excuse, excuse, etc.... Hey it's my opinion that's all, you don't have to agree and you can feel it's ok for "budget boats" to be over $50k. But then I don't think you can get mad at people talking about other brands offering similar quality and features for similar prices. $50k-$70k is a LOT of money for most and people want ALL of their money's worth for those prices, at least I do.

When I dropped the $53k 4 years ago i thought that i would never spend that much for a boat just to wakeboard again, it was a LOT of money for us. I thought I would have it forever. Truthfully, it was the best "investment" I have ever made. It lets me spend great time with family and friends doing something I love, win win situation. But after 4 years I am wanting to get into a new 2012 but with current prices I will probably hold off or buy a slightly used 2011.

cab13367
09-19-2011, 04:28 PM
[QUOTE=501;156631I thought I would have it forever. But after 4 years I am wanting to get into a new 2012 but with current prices I will probably hold off or buy a slightly used 2011.[/QUOTE]

Levi, just curious, what made you change your mind? What is lacking about your XLV that only a new(er) boat can provide?

you da man
09-19-2011, 04:34 PM
Levi, thats $53k in Canadian dollars correct? Wow, that's still $52k approx

89PROSTAR
09-19-2011, 05:15 PM
We are very happy with our choice of boat. I really don't think it matters what manufacture you choose. There will always be something you would want different. I think my biggest thing would have to be the seat foam thickness. That appears to be the first thing to wear out. With all the foot traffic from getting in and out the cushions could be a 1" thicker. The other thing I would like to see change is the one year warranty on a new boat. Our boating season here in the Pacific Northwest is very short. It's hard to put the hours on it needed to really test the equipment for failure/issues. I would like to see it hour based rather than calendar base.

wolfeman131
09-19-2011, 05:46 PM
I like the warranty adjustment, but would offer that they could do it similar to the auto manufacturers with a warranty for X number of hours or X number of years, whichever comes first.

c.rix
09-19-2011, 06:22 PM
skip snap in carpet lets go with magnitized in carpet

bergermaister
09-19-2011, 06:22 PM
I always find these threads on the new-must-have interesting. Running a fairly old boat with not much high tech I've kind of grown to like the simplicity of it. I don't have to jump through touch screens and menus to turn things on and off. Flip switch - done. If something quits or starts acting up I don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out or make an appointment with the dealer. And it doesn't cost me a fortune to own it. I've ridden behind and driven other newer and fancier boats, but I still like mine.

But then again I'm the kind of guy who doesn't leave things stock. Trucks are usually lifted or lowered, blinged out at least some with wheels/tires, windows tinted, stereos replaced, engines/exhaust modified... That's part of the fun of owning a boat - getting to trick it out and make it different or better than the average boat coming off the showroom floor. Is any new boat going to have the ideal ballast and stereo setup? Doubt it.

I'd keep it simple and vote for refinements or improvements in the engine/powertrain and interior - the stuff that you can't really change on your own (at least not very easily). The rest, well that's the fun part. I like the touchscreen on my phone, but probably not in my boat. I already have a hard enough time seeing my iphone to change songs or see what time it is in the bright sun.

I love the idea of underfloor ballast but knowing me I'd add more too it anyway.

Exile as a factory stereo option? Hmmm, but are ya gonna run 2, 4, or 6 on the tower? Just leave it empty and do it on your own.

I love my playpen seating - that would be a great option on any of the hulls offered.

In the end, pretty sure we all love our boats, we just wonder if the grass is greener. But laying down "the green" to go and find out is a dicy proposition.

I'd be curious for Skiers Choice to chime in how / when / where / what is involved with their market research.

sandm
09-19-2011, 08:47 PM
agreed with you 100% on the touchscreen berg. I have modded almost everything I own(never forget the ex's eyes as she came out into the garage and I had the upper 1/2 of the engine torn out on the brand new mitsu evo I had just bought to put new cams in it).. but the touchscreen just scares me as another expensive thing to go wrong, and when it needs fixed/modded, you are at the dealers mercy. I enjoy wrenching and like the simplicity of my '06. something breaks, I can fix it, and don't need to get a pc to plug into it.

lets see, as berg put it, the basics refined/added to such as the snap out carpet and the overall hull/fiberglas improvements, and perhaps some engine upgrades, but leave the ballast, stereo, lighting and the such to the rest of us. there will be those that will pay the dealers for upgrades, showing their profit margins, and those that are the dyi crowd that appreciate not having to pay for options that we might change/uninstall at a later date..

heck, I love the sound system in my boat, and don't plan on changing/adding anything in the future, but if it would have been the stock system in the boat, I'd probably have yanked it by now for something "different" :)

08LSV
09-19-2011, 09:17 PM
I can't remember if this was already stated, but I would be happy if SC just started to address some of the current issues a lot of us are experiencing or things most of us have complained about. Hello! Water under the ski locker floor.........

rdlangston13
09-19-2011, 10:07 PM
I can't remember if this was already stated, but I would be happy if SC just started to address some of the current issues a lot of us are experiencing or things most of us have complained about. Hello! Water under the ski locker floor.........

pretty sure that was fixed in the 09 or 10 year model

Ian Brantford
09-19-2011, 11:50 PM
pretty sure that was fixed in the 09 or 10 year model

One of the threads on the topic had pictures of where the design in the center ballast had changed around a clearly leak-prone area. That may or may not mean that the issue was fully resolved.

501
09-20-2011, 01:13 AM
You know Cab, thats a good question. I guess, my love of boats is really the only reason.

OK, well the truth is we have over 360 hours on the boat and it has been nothing but rock solid. Not really an issue to speak off. Oh sometimes one of the bags won't drain unless you fill it all the way up and then switch to drain. And sometimes perfect pass fails to kick in and yo have to turn it off and back on, but these are few and far between. Overall the XLV has been awesome to me and my family. I have babied it and whiped it clean after every use but this year the vinyl is really starting to show its wear and has started cracking in about 4 or 5 spots and my boat is in a covered carport 365 under a tarp. I am worried that things are really going to start to go and perhaps I should sell it and get something new. I don't care about touchscreen dashes or billeted diamonds, I am most concerned with functionality, space, storage and most importantly the wake. I guess in the spring we will see how the new boats look and what kind of trade in i can get. You will probably see me here all next summer with more videos behind the XLV though.

Cab, I really appreciate the simplicity of your statement. It's making me think more about why I want a new boat. I get compliments on my XLV everytime I go out. I really do like her.

12249


Levi, just curious, what made you change your mind? What is lacking about your XLV that only a new(er) boat can provide?

501
09-20-2011, 01:14 AM
Ya, I thought it was a pretty good deal at the time.



Levi, thats $53k in Canadian dollars correct? Wow, that's still $52k approx

Canuckle Head
09-20-2011, 12:52 PM
Levi, thats $53k in Canadian dollars correct? Wow, that's still $52k approx

No that is $53,546.17 USD

Our money is worth more than yours right now.