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TheBeeZ
03-12-2003, 11:37 PM
I am a beginner to intermidiate skier. I currently ski on an O'brien World Team and I am considering purchasing a new ski for this year. I only free ride but still want to rip. The problem is I can't try the ski before I buy. I am considering the Connelly F3 Concept, O'brien Siege. I would consider other brands or models. I want to move up in performance. I would appreciate your opinion.

catdog
03-15-2003, 09:05 AM
We got an F3 a few weeks ago and haven't got to try it yet.

We tried the F1 last year and it was much too squirley for us. You could lay it down really far, but it was tricky to hold it straight if you wanted to cruise a little. The F3 looks like it doesn't have the radical concave of the F1, so I think it will cut good plus give us a chance to rest going straight also.

Our F3 has a double boot set-up, so that will help with real deep cuts. We got a blem, so we saved a lot, and the blem was a little chip out of the top surface of the ski near the fin - no problem and worth $110 savings.

Last year we also borrowed an older Obrien Team ski ( not sure which intermediate model )-- its shape worked real good also but it didn't have the second boot.

Be careful of the little wing on the fin of either ski, cause they rip the heck out of the vinyl seats. Got a ski bag with the F3 to protect us from the ski!

BensonWdby
04-08-2003, 01:29 AM
Most good dealers should let you buy a ski and then exchange it if you don't like it. Just make sure you keep it in good shape.
And ask them before you buy.

Check ski magazines for reviews depending on your style of skiing, arc or hook-and-pull.

Most of your quicker turning skis do not like to go straight so they normally feel a little snakey in the bubbles. Don't let that drive your choice.

I would avoid the really expensive top end skis. I don't think they are worth it for most recreational skiers.
Got to Ski Limited or Overtons and see what they recommend for skiing ability.

I think dual boots are over rated. I currently ski at 15 off at 32-34 mph and have not felt the need for them yet. But who knows, maybe if I tried it I would love it...
A lot of non-tournament boats have a hard time pulling a bigger person out of the water with both feet in.

As far as the wing goes. If you do not know about deceleration then you could probably take it off. If you are still skiing on long line you definitely do not need it.

Good luck
Dave

Catdog1
07-08-2003, 07:59 PM
Finally have some miles on the F3. Good ride, good cutting capability. It'll do more than my skill level.

Bindings are pretty tight ( stokers ). Using lube to get into them.

Is there any way to break the bindings in besides using them...?

TheBeeZ
07-09-2003, 10:19 AM
I went on faith and bought a f3. Our weather has not been too good this year so I have not been able to ride it as much as I would like to. So far I seem to be able to hold a better edge crossing the wake but my turns are not as good. I think this is simply not being used to the ski yet. I will report back toward the end of summer.

Catdog1
07-09-2003, 08:33 PM
Do you think its an improvement over the Obrien?

TheBeeZ
07-10-2003, 09:35 AM
Yes, it is defintely an improvement. I just need to adjust my style some. Let me correct that. I need to improve some. I'm a beginner to a very low intermidiate skier. I need more time on the water and I need to correct some problems with my technique.

SkiKY
07-10-2003, 05:35 PM
You can stretch out new bindings by taking them off the ski and soaking them in HOT water with 20oz coke bottles inserted in them. Be sure you have the binding straps set to the largest size before you resort to this measure.

Catdog1
07-10-2003, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the help on the bindings. They're XL but they hurt.
Then again, I don't stay in em very long before getting worn out, anyway.

I'm going to try removing that little cross fin, its on a steep angle and seems to make the ski drag in the water...

BensonWdby
07-29-2003, 10:06 PM
The "cross fin" you mention is actually a hydrofoil (or foil). It is designed to slow the ski down when you shift your wieght forward in the pre-turn. You don't actually need to remove the foil, just adjust the angle to be less severe, like the first or second angle indicator.

If you are still sking long line and under 32 mph you probably do not need it. If you are not skiing a course on a regular basis you may not need it either. But if you switch to shorter rope (I highly recommend 15 off) and get up around 32-36 you are going to find it somewhat useful. You just need to be prepared for the sudden change in speed or you will go head first over the ski. Once you complete the turn, and start the pull on your edge, the wing has little effect. Take video and see if you can get your front foot in the water when you make your turns. If you do this and have a strong pull and good angulation you are going to need the braking effect the foil gives you in your next turn.

Have fun
Dave

Catdog1
07-30-2003, 02:29 AM
Thanks, Dave. I'll reattach it next time and adjust the angle.

Am just doing open lake skiing at full length rope and 32 to 34 mph.

Will shorten and try it.

TheBeeZ
07-31-2003, 10:54 AM
I took my wing off also. I am skiing full line at 30 mph and I could feel the drag in the pre turn. I had my best ski run of the year Saturday and the worst fall in about 3 years on Sunday (my neck is still sore). I plan to shorten my line 15 off my next trip out. Unfortuntely, it maybe 2 weeks before I get to ski again.

BLKOUTLS
08-01-2003, 09:21 AM
Another useful trick with the wing is to install it upside down. you dont have to have that great of an angle on the wing and it tracks a little deeper. my end result was a great and at 15 a 22 open water skiing love it. skiing on a ho asx and the idea actually is from the ho design guys and one of the their team skiers. last year when i was demoing skis i tried so many combonations ,bindings +distance +fin+wing drove myself nuts,finally got angle of bindings and distance right and flipping wing was the next biggest improvement.hope it helps.

dndsam
08-17-2003, 07:58 PM
I started off on a World Team too and then moved into a LaPoint TRC PRO then on to a Mapple after a ride on my buddies Mapple. It is a VERY user friendly and forgiving ski even though it is a world record holding ski. It is the top of the line ski but it is a dream to ski.

Contact a ski pro shop and try out different skis. Most of the time they will even sell you the demo at the end of the season at a real good discounted price.

As far as the "wing"(brake) goes, you do not have to take it off, just change the angle to 0 degrees. It should not throw you just help keep the tail of the ski where it belongs, in the water.

Good luck with your quest for a ski. Let us know what you end up with.

Goblin
09-12-2003, 02:28 AM
The F3 is a great all around ski. If you are not doing 36mph @ 28off the F3 is fine. It will be stable riding it flat behind the boat in a straight line.

The F1 hunts more and likes to be on edge. This is only really needed to make a super fast turn when behind on the course or 28 off or better.

I can do 22 off on just about any of the skis. Some may fight more when you try to lay them down in the turn but they all are capable of making the course.

The f3 is a great ski. It accellerates well, rides the rough water better than most and is easier to ride flat while resting.

I usually do not like soft forgiving skis. They feel too spongy. I'm using to super stiff non forgiving types. The F3 is one of the few softer flex skis that liked.


Orginally posted by TheBeeZ

I am a beginner to intermidiate skier. I currently ski on an O'brien World Team and I am considering purchasing a new ski for this year. I only free ride but still want to rip. The problem is I can't try the ski before I buy. I am considering the Connelly F3 Concept, O'brien Siege. I would consider other brands or models. I want to move up in performance. I would appreciate your opinion.

09-12-2003, 02:37 AM
Fins are kind of a gimmick at slow speeds and long line.

Take it off and ski. When you start getting slack in the line its time to put it back on. If you are getting slack at 15ft off 36mph there is something wrong with your style. At 22 ft off the fin starts to help in the turns. It may save you in a really hot turn when you are behind in the course.

Most skier that buy skies with fins don't need them. You really need to cut hard and get to 55+ mph at the wakes then slow down to sub 30 in the turn. The fin helps slow ya down there. Most recreational skiers never come close to those speeds, for them the fin is just extra drag even if set to zero.


Orginally posted by Catdog1

Thanks for the help on the bindings. They're XL but they hurt.
Then again, I don't stay in em very long before getting worn out, anyway.

I'm going to try removing that little cross fin, its on a steep angle and seems to make the ski drag in the water...

Catdog1
09-12-2003, 03:37 AM
Got the 2002 version of the F3. Not sure if they modified it for 2003, but catalogues elude to it being improved. The 02 version hardly has a bottom profile and its really heavy. I paid only $319 for the doublebooted F3 blem. Maybe its a case of only getting what I paid for.

Anyway, as the summer winds up, I'm not having the same experience with the F3. I can't seem to cut nearly as sharp as I expected. The edge slips and the ski spins-out.

Have used the F1 and a mid-level O'brien --- both carved real well. Actually, I feel like I can cut better on my wide Connelly combo ski than on this F3. All this comparison stuff is subjective, and I'm running more like 32 than 36mph.

Its encouraging that you are positive about the F3, so that gives me some hope of success. I was pretty close to stripping the boots off and discarding the board, thinking I'd been ripped off. So, maybe its me and not the ski.

Goblin
09-12-2003, 02:13 PM
Orginally posted by Catdog1

Got the 2002 version of the F3. Not sure if they modified it for 2003, but catalogues elude to it being improved. The 02 version hardly has a bottom profile and its really heavy. I paid only $319 for the doublebooted F3 blem. Maybe its a case of only getting what I paid for.

Anyway, as the summer winds up, I'm not having the same experience with the F3. I can't seem to cut nearly as sharp as I expected. The edge slips and the ski spins-out.

Have used the F1 and a mid-level O'brien --- both carved real well. Actually, I feel like I can cut better on my wide Connelly combo ski than on this F3. All this comparison stuff is subjective, and I'm running more like 32 than 36mph.

Its encouraging that you are positive about the F3, so that gives me some hope of success. I was pretty close to stripping the boots off and discarding the board, thinking I'd been ripped off. So, maybe its me and not the ski.

Goblin
09-12-2003, 02:22 PM
Well those other skis tend to turn themselves. If you get use them the F3 may feel like it does not turn well.

Shorten your line to 15 feet off and run at 33mph minumum. (how much do you weigh and how long is the ski?)
Its much harder to put any ski on edge at long line and slow speeds.

At 15 off it will be much easier to put the ski on edge.
Pull out wide on the initial cut and pull like crazy through both wakes. You need speed to set up the turn. As soon as you get through the second wake just lean toward the boat, let go of the handle as it helps get you in proper position.

Try to fall over sideways, if you have enough speed you wont fall over youll just hook around. Almost any ski no matter how crappy it is will turn. I have slaloms from 1979 that I can turn just fine on.

I suspect its you technique, keep working on it, get some ski videos and then video tape yourself so you can see whats going on.


Orginally posted by Catdog1

Got the 2002 version of the F3. Not sure if they modified it for 2003, but catalogues elude to it being improved. The 02 version hardly has a bottom profile and its really heavy. I paid only $319 for the doublebooted F3 blem. Maybe its a case of only getting what I paid for.

Anyway, as the summer winds up, I'm not having the same experience with the F3. I can't seem to cut nearly as sharp as I expected. The edge slips and the ski spins-out.

Have used the F1 and a mid-level O'brien --- both carved real well. Actually, I feel like I can cut better on my wide Connelly combo ski than on this F3. All this comparison stuff is subjective, and I'm running more like 32 than 36mph.

Its encouraging that you are positive about the F3, so that gives me some hope of success. I was pretty close to stripping the boots off and discarding the board, thinking I'd been ripped off. So, maybe its me and not the ski.

Goblin
09-12-2003, 03:37 PM
I have a very non scientific way of picking out stable skis. The heavier the ski the more stable it is. I'm sure there are exceptions. There really is no advantage to a light ski other than doing jumps etc.

The heavy ski will adsorb the waves and wakes much better.

I use to test skis for Jobe way back when and some of the super light ones were just crap in rough water. If you have smooth as glass conditions they all are pretty decent.

I use to use a Lapoint Maha ski that was heavy as hell and super stiff, I use to pray for rough conditions in tournements as I knew the other skiers with the more common light weight skis would have a tough time. :)

You can also tune the ski to your liking. I would have to dig through my old books to advise on how to do it. Its basically just hand sanding the bevels of the ski.

Boot position can also really affect the ski. Don't ever move the boots too far forward, it can make a good ski perform horribly in the turns. If you have adjustable bindings try moving them back 1/4 inch, it does not take much movement of the bindings to make a difference.

If a combo ski turns better than the F3 I suspect its due to the boat speed being too slow for the F3 and weight of skier.

High performance skis really are not that good at slow speeds they are not meant to be. I can't ski very well at 30mph with my current ski, 34-36 is much easier to make turns. You will fall harder though :)

09-12-2003, 03:57 PM
I tend to agree on the dual boots being over rated. I started off with single boot at age 16 (I'm old man 42 now) and eventually tried the dual boots a few years later.

You can ski just as good with a single but I think a aggressive light skier might like the double boot for stability.

I ended up really liking the doulble boot for rough water, I sometimes would loose my rear footing on rough water slalom runs. The double gives a bit more confidence.

I missed not being able to jump off the dock or jump out of my single boot for barefooting. Deep water starts are a little harder with dual boots, all you have to do is bend both knees so much that you are sitting on the tail of the ski when the boat takes off. That will save your back some. With a single boot the tail of the ski does not dig in as much on take off.

On the water the dual boots may make you a little more consistant but you will take some falls that you can avoid with a single boot. Pretty hard to yank the rear foot out of a dual to get some fast balance.




Orginally posted by BensonWdby
I think dual boots are over rated. I currently ski at 15 off at 32-34 mph and have not felt the need for them yet. But who knows, maybe if I tried it I would love it...
A lot of non-tournament boats have a hard time pulling a bigger person out of the water with both feet in.

As far as the wing goes. If you do not know about deceleration then you could probably take it off. If you are still skiing on long line you definitely do not need it.

Good luck
Dave