PDA

View Full Version : Push Button Start



KG's Supra24
01-04-2012, 03:59 PM
Curious if anyone ended up doing this? Here are a couple archive threads I read.

http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/archive/index.php/t-6694.html

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/archive/index.php/t-10697.html

I am not mechanical inclined by any means but it seems like it would be a fairly simple mod.

I imagine myself wanting to keep it as simple as possible ... Have a toggle switch that is on/off (likely hidden under the dash) and use the push button to start/stop. My plan would be to replace the OEM ignition switch with a push button ...

http://www.autoloc.com/products/buttonbuilder/

ian ashton
01-04-2012, 04:09 PM
I considered doing this, but never got around to it. I love the look of the Autoloc buttons. If I were to do it, I would buy the module that allows the push button to start and stop the engine, as it seems stupid to me to have a button to start, but still have to flick a switch for 'on' and 'off' every time. In a car this might be OK, but with a boat that you are constantly starting and stopping it just would become cumbersome.

ian ashton
01-04-2012, 04:13 PM
With the way you want to do it, an even easier way might be to keep the key to turn on the fuel pump and turn the engine off, and just move the 'start' wire to its own push button, which would allow you to retain the "security" of the key, and still add the button.

KG's Supra24
01-04-2012, 04:21 PM
I want to get rid of the key and replace it with the push button, partially for look purposes. Also, starting last season, I don't pull the key out of the ignition. I actually took the floaty off. I felt the convenience of never worrying about a key outweighed the threat of theft.

Here is an ignition control module that I believe would do the trick. It works the same way as my wife's car. 1 push gets you to run then holding starts the car.

http://www.autoloc.com/catalog/Push-Button-Engine-Start-Kits/Engine-Start-Control-Module/EC0/Engine-Start-Activation-Control-Unit-with-TruTouch

However, at $250, I'd rather buy the $40 button and a $10 switch for on/off.

ian ashton
01-04-2012, 04:47 PM
Thats exactly the one I looked at too!

I also leave the key in my boat all the time. Being on an inland lake, in a marina with lights and security cameras, I'm confident that if someone steals my boat they won't get far, and I have insurance, lol.

The key in our boats is just a vanity thing, it is quite possibly the easiest thing in the world to "hot wire" with 2 pieces of wire, paperclips, anything really.

bergermaister
01-04-2012, 04:55 PM
I felt the convenience of never worrying about a key outweighed the threat of theft.

You'll only forget the key once, then you'll have 2-3 spares wired up in hidden places on board like I do. :rolleyes:


The key in our boats is just a vanity thing, it is quite possibly the easiest thing in the world to "hot wire" with 2 pieces of wire, paperclips, anything really.

True true. My 8yr old could probably hot wire it!

I actually worry more about dropping my car keys (+home +work +everything) in the drink than losing the boat keys.

kaneboats
01-04-2012, 05:20 PM
I keep plenty of them hidden on the cars/trucks too.

KSmith
01-04-2012, 07:05 PM
http://www.keepitcleanwiring.com/catalog/Push-Button-Start-Systems/Standard-Engine-Start-Buttons/PUSHB/Red-Illuminated-Push-Button-Start-SwitchMaybe this would work?

sandm
01-04-2012, 07:39 PM
tend to agree about keys in boats. mine has never left the ignition switch. no one is going to steal it and just drive all over the lake, and unlike a car, you don't need the key in to do anything other than start the boat. I keep the spare in the truck glovebox as I have left it at home once and that was a 1.5hr loss of valuable surfing time going back to retrieve it..
the wiring is real simple. an on/off switch and pushbutton to start would replace it.

mmandley
01-05-2012, 12:59 AM
I recall this from last spring and the thought was in my mind then and it's still there lingering. I have mixed feelings on this idea. I too don't remove my keys and I actually panic a little when the boat crew is cleaning at the end of the day and they put it in the glove box lol I am paranoid I will loose it. I also think it would take a 8 year old about 5 minute to hot wire the boat.

My main concern still would be with kids always watching it would take them about 5 secs to start the boat and cause issues. I really want a push button system but I would rather it be like the cars where you have a proximity key befor the ignition button activates.

ian ashton
01-05-2012, 10:34 AM
I actually worry more about dropping my car keys (+home +work +everything) in the drink than losing the boat keys.

You could do what I do; leave my car keys in the car, my boat keys in the boat, and my house keys in the house. I don't really lock anything, if someone wants in, they'll get it.

ian ashton
01-05-2012, 10:37 AM
My main concern still would be with kids always watching it would take them about 5 secs to start the boat and cause issues. I really want a push button system but I would rather it be like the cars where you have a proximity key befor the ignition button activates.

I believe Auto-Loc also has an RFID system, I know I've seen it somewhere...

bergermaister
01-05-2012, 10:42 AM
You could do what I do; leave my car keys in the car, my boat keys in the boat, and my house keys in the house. I don't really lock anything, if someone wants in, they'll get it.

If I had the keypad entry on my truck I'd definitely leave the keys somewhere in it at the launch. At home I usually go through the garage with the opener so I could "probably" go without a key although that makes me a little uneasy.

With the boat, I'm less worried about it driving away. What would be more likely to happen is some punk to just take the keys and leave me stranded or hunting all over for them thinking I lost them.

KG's Supra24
01-05-2012, 10:48 AM
A proximity key faub (however you spell it) is worse than dealing with a key. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

I noticed in one of the archive convos there was a lot of concerns with kids but I don't guess I follow. I think my daughter is just as capable of turning a key as she is pushing a button. Perhaps its more inviting? Also if the boat were to be started, then what? The only time I've had someone below the boat past the swim platform is to get a rope out from the prop. I understand the concern but I don't guess I see how the odds of someone being injured dramatically increased.

rdlangston13
01-05-2012, 11:47 AM
If you are so concerned with kids starting it on accident then just put the boat in gear after you kill it. it wont start in gear so unless the child has enough awareness to more the throttle to neutral and then push the button or turn the key but if they know to do all that then you are screwed either way.

i know whats coming next "what if the safety switch doesnt work and it gets fire up in gear and runs people over" not likely but i guess a valid concern?

im with KG, i know alot of people on here are paranoid about the liability issue of someone coming in contact with a prop while swimming with the engine running but have any of you actually tried to touch the prop while you boat is in the water? i got a rope tangled in mine in the middle of the lake last spring and trust me, you are not going to accidentally hit the prop while swimming. that sucker is far under there

Razzman
01-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Ok so a disclaimer first, this is in no way negative comments to start arguements so keep that in mind. :)

However unlikely it seems, people do get run over or hit by the prop and it happens more than you think. I can recall hearing about it at least 3-4 times locally the last few years. The worst was two years ago whan a dude in a Malibu backed right up and over one of his own crew in the water, chopping him up real good, killing him. Before anyone asks how this could happen, it doesn't matter, it did happen and that's all that counts.

As for the the key-vs-button arguement and the likelyhood of this or that; anyone remember hearing about the dog that managed to start the car and put it in gear ultimately crashing it? Stupid owner left the keys in the car and a perfect set of circumstances happened. If a dog can do it then I'll gaurantee a child can whether it be keyed, buttoned, in gear or out. Anyone out there have small kids? They ever get into the drivers seat and start playing around? What's one of the first things they grab? The throttle because it's right in their face, I know my grandsons do it, just sayin ...

rdlangston13
01-05-2012, 02:56 PM
Ok so a disclaimer first, this is in no way negative comments to start arguements so keep that in mind. :)

However unlikely it seems, people do get run over or hit by the prop and it happens more than you think. I can recall hearing about it at least 3-4 times locally the last few years. The worst was two years ago whan a dude in a Malibu backed right up and over one of his own crew in the water, chopping him up real good, killing him. Before anyone asks how this could happen, it doesn't matter, it did happen and that's all that counts.


point taken however this sounds like a completely different type of accident. someone was in control of the boat, they just didnt see the person back there, this has nothing to do with accidentally starting it and having it accidentally drive off, this boat was intentionally moving it sounds like

sandm
01-05-2012, 03:33 PM
this would be a stupid mod for those with kids that frequent a boat. I have not had anyone under 14 on mine in 2 years so I would not have any issues doing this, but I'm not sure what the "true" benefit would be. keeping spare keys in the tow rig and perhaps one in the jockey box should prevent any lost/forgotten key issues.
the argument could be made that I might have a kid on the boat in the future, but if you have a kid on my boat and they set foot in the drivers seat uninvited, both kid and parent that are not watching the kid are on the closest dock done for the day :)

KG's Supra24
01-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Ok, it appears to be personal opinion on whether or not a momentary push button (in OEM key spot) with a on/off toggle located under the drivers helm (somewhere/anywhere) materially increases the chances of a child starting the boat when he/she shouldn't.

My purpose for this mod is not one of function but more for appeal. The same as changing or stripping the graphics on the boat. I would thing it would fall into the catagory of cheap/quick mod.

Here are my questions/concerns if anyone has input/answers:

1. How would the wiring work? I know there are 3 wires OEM. I believe they are power, ground, start (to starter). I am unsure whether or not the momentary switches are two prong or three prong. Also, I'm assuming the toggle switch would be in line on the power wire? Or should it be the ground? Or both? For the toggle switch, I may consider even using the OEM key ignition, just hidden.

2. Does anyone happen to know the size of the factory ignition switches? Looks like there are several options when selecting buttons ... 16mm, 19mm, 22mm, etc.

3. Would a momentary button do start and stop?

4. My plan would be to leave the toggle in the on position throughout riding so there would be short periods where toggle is on. However, what if I forget to toggle off after stopping the boat? Is there any potential for battery drainage with the toggle switch on for hours and the boat not running? The only thing I can think of that comes on when the key is in the accessory position now is the dash (gauges and perfect pass). Am I missing more?

Also, If anyone randomly comes across a keypad type momentary button, post it up. I am having trouble finding it in a search. I think something similar to the ford door handle buttons would be more ideal than the nautique style. Not sure either would fit, though.

ian ashton
01-05-2012, 04:43 PM
2. Does anyone happen to know the size of the factory ignition switches? Looks like there are several options when selecting buttons ... 16mm, 19mm, 22mm, etc.
I know that the 16mm are what I use to control my LED's, and they are rather small. About the size of a dime.



3. Would a momentary button do start and stop?
No. The momentary will engage the starter when it is pushed to start the boat. Your 'on/off' switch will turn on the fuel pump, and thus be responsible for 'stopping' the engine.




4. My plan would be to leave the toggle in the on position throughout riding so there would be short periods where toggle is on. However, what if I forget to toggle off after stopping the boat? Is there any potential for battery drainage with the toggle switch on for hours and the boat not running? The only thing I can think of that comes on when the key is in the accessory position now is the dash (gauges and perfect pass). Am I missing more?
To do this you will need that start module, to the best of my knowledge there is no way to get a button to do start and stop without some sort of switching module behind it. I have not seen a switch that has momentary as well as latching, smart enough to know that 1 press is on, 2 presses is off, with momentary inbetween only on press 1.

By just removing the ignition switch and replacing it with a toggle and momentary push button, the process would be: Start: flip toggle on, push momentary to start. Stop: Flip toggle off.

sandm
01-05-2012, 05:19 PM
here's a thought. take the acc. switch on the other side of the dash and make it the off/on switch then replace the key with a nice red pushbutton. maybe something like the factory start switch on a bmw 1series. if you are deadset on wanting them together, then order a factory acc switch for a factory look. that switch doesn't really seem to do much in the boat anyway.

KG's Supra24
01-05-2012, 05:34 PM
Thats a good idea sandm! Only problem is it is wired to all my LEDs right now.

Ian, thanks!! So it sounds like to use the button for start and stop, it turns it into a $250 project opposed to a $50 project.

I like this mod at $50 but I'm not sure I like it at $250, at least not this year. The process of killing the engine by switch might be too much to explain to others. It also might just be too much to deal with when riding and repeatedly turning the boat off an on. Something to think about, though, now that I understand the logistics.

KG's Supra24
01-05-2012, 05:43 PM
Wait a second ...... Thinking outloud ....

What if the button (in place of the ignition) is not a momentary? What if it was latching? What if the starter was connected to a Momentary that was located under the helm? Preferably in the kick panel so it could be pushed with your foot? This would be a button you push in and it automatically pops back out. Would there be issues engaging the starter without the fuel pump? Would/could you have to hold down the ignition button so maybe a different type of switch?

The daily process to start: hold the button down with your foot and push the ignition button. To stop: push the ignition button.

Is that brilliant or plain retarded? The idea comes from my wifes car. I can push the button in the igintion spot all day long to turn all the accesories on/off. I cannot start the car unless my foot is on the brake. I know there is alot more going on in her car but could you replicate that process with switches only, no module? That would also solve the kid issue, right?

I get a little confused when thinking out how some of the switches work so the help is appreciated!

wolfeman131
01-05-2012, 05:48 PM
Is that brilliant or plain retarded?

I'm not going to answer that, but . . .

13090

KG's Supra24
01-05-2012, 06:01 PM
Sorry, it wouldn't let me edit ....

AFTERTHOUGHT: I'm not trying to just flip/flop what the switches do as in turn the boat on at ignition, push button in kick panel to start, push button at ignition to turn off. I was hoping more for the boat will not start unless you have your foot on a button (starter) elsewhere, hopefully solving the module part and keeping a cheap simple button?

Once again, just thinking outloud. Thanks guys.

KG's Supra24
01-05-2012, 07:01 PM
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/kwgarner24/Untitled.png

That is the point I was trying to make. In that diagram, nothing gets past the circle on the starter wire unless the button is pushed in.

Does that over simplify what is happening? Does it have potential to damage the starter or the fuel pump?

newty
01-05-2012, 08:11 PM
Not if your power wire is switched with the fuel pump and the other items energized by the keyswitch. This really is a very simple mod. You would have to have a switch somewhere.

TL7
01-06-2012, 01:00 AM
For those worried about someone accidentally starting, wouldn't an easy safeguard be to just pull the lanyard when parked?

Disclaimer: I don't have kids so maybe I'm trying to simplify too much....

kaneboats
01-06-2012, 12:15 PM
You know, a three position key switch might work just as well. :D

Jet
01-09-2012, 01:45 PM
Hey Kyle. I will also be doing this mod in a few months to, but I dont have kids to worry about. There should be a easy and cheap way to do this, I just haven't looked into it deep enough yet. Last time I for got my keys sitting at the ramp. Ha ha..not funny!! I went back to the auto shop, bought a 4-wire ignition starter w/key ($6) for a old mustang and installed it in 5 mins. So you are correct. A 8th grader can start one of these boats in 2-mins.

sandm
01-09-2012, 07:40 PM
the thing I've always thought about with a key in a boat... where are they going to go???

New Guy
01-10-2012, 05:59 PM
I'm thinking of doing this but adding 2nd a key switch hidden that will be on most of the time except at the sand bar ect. I have a younger nephew that likes to pretend he is driving. This secondary switch should eliminate accidental starting.

It would look like this: key-> IGN Switch & Push button that way you could remove the key essentially disabling the system.

maxpower220
01-16-2013, 09:45 AM
http://www.wakeblaster.com/products/Push-Button-Starter

Saw this on the MC forum. Several people of there are using this with good results. For $89, it may be something people here are interested in.

I personally know nothing about this product.

KG's Supra24
01-16-2013, 11:26 AM
Interesting, sounds like someone put a kit together.

Here is MC thread
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=52293&page=4

"I'll run the sale through 1/21. Non-promo price is $110."

E4NASH
01-16-2013, 01:54 PM
May do this after ballast project. One project at a time...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

moombadaze
01-22-2013, 11:10 AM
May do this after ballast project. One project at a time...




You need at least 2-3 at the same time

E4NASH
01-22-2013, 11:13 AM
You need at least 2-3 at the same time

Well then I should be good...Ballast upgrade, swivel seat (again!), push button start, and plasti-dip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

moombadaze
01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
[QUOTE=E4NASH;206114 swivel seat (again!)[/QUOTE]

remod's dont count, sounds like you need to add some transom lights

E4NASH
01-22-2013, 03:16 PM
remod's dont count, sounds like you need to add some transom lights

Well the swivel never really stuck because the swivel was really shakey so I need to find a new one. I took the swivel out about 5 minutes after it was installed. So, it doesn't meet remod qualifications. Transom lights...yeah I forgot to include those too. That is on my list but is probably sitting at the bottom because after adding all of this weight I will probably need to scoop up a new prop.

moombadaze
01-22-2013, 03:38 PM
. That is on my list but is probably sitting at the bottom because after adding all of this weight I will probably need to scoop up a new prop.


if your going to run heavy surf ballast, move the prop upgrade to the top of the list, personally I'd get a Acme, think its a 1235 or something like that but give the guys at acme a call and see what they say

E4NASH
01-22-2013, 03:41 PM
if your going to run heavy surf ballast, move the prop upgrade to the top of the list, personally I'd get a Acme, think its a 1235 or something like that but give the guys at acme a call and see what they say

Yep that's the plan...after the ballast upgrade the prop is right behind it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

moombadaze
01-22-2013, 04:46 PM
ok, good to hear its next in line as i think you will be disapointed in the performance when running heavy with the standard prop, i know your boats drivetrain will thank you too.


threadjack over for now, back to the pushbutton start

mmandley
01-23-2013, 12:07 PM
Just a thought on the ones with Newer Supras, and Now Moomba's

Supra has had this for the last few years, and im not positive if it started with 12 but i know its in the 13 Mojo and thats 1 second start.

What i mean is, you dont actaully turn and hold the key anymore to start the boat.

You just turn it to start it and instantly let go. The boat will then crank and start its self.

This is very simular to push start so you may or may not need all the parts in the kit.

I first noticed this option on Brad Webb boat, then on the SA and also on the 13 Mojo. I find it very cool but then again i dont see the need for a push start button. I think its just another component in the starting chain to fail

saskie99
02-06-2013, 03:25 PM
hummmm, went to order this last night and it is gone from their website, not trace of it???

jasonwm
02-15-2013, 01:43 PM
Looks like he's stopped fulfilling orders until he can change some functionality. Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CODE-5-Marine-Keyless-Ignition-System-718-SOK1000-For-Single-Engine-/150802434466) another option I looked at a while back, but never got around to installing. Gives you some security (either from theft, or from accidental starts) with the code.

kaneboats
02-15-2013, 11:04 PM
If you have to punch in the code every time it would drive me nuts. I probably restart 12-20 times a day.

jasonwm
02-15-2013, 11:31 PM
It works just like the Malibu system, you enter the code to "unlock" the ignition, and then you can go back and forth between ignition on and run as often as you want with one button.

kaneboats
02-15-2013, 11:57 PM
Thanks, Jason. Good to hear.

jasonwm
02-16-2013, 08:30 PM
We used that system on the boats at a ski school I worked at where you're constantly starting and stopping the engine. It worked pretty well.

REDFIVE48
08-02-2013, 05:53 PM
So my ignition switch failed on my last weekend and instead of putting in another key switch, decided to try out push button start. Here is what it looks like, haven't used it heavily yet so not sure how long it will last, but giving it a shot. Longest part of the job was waiting for the parts to come in. I decided not to worry about the theft part of it, as many said, takes but a few min to defeat the key switch, and I store my boat in my garage anyway.

18050

18051

New Guy
08-02-2013, 06:55 PM
Your going love it after switching mine over last year I will never go backwards. Even if I get a new boat I will do this asap.

Salyers
08-02-2013, 08:04 PM
I like how it looks! Let us know how durable it is.

Brockstar23
08-03-2013, 01:16 AM
Where did you pick this up or what brand is it? I love the idea of it.

Brock

REDFIVE48
08-03-2013, 07:06 AM
Found both the engine labeled switch and the push button start on that big internet auction site, think it was less that $30 for both shipped. If you do it let me know and will send you the wire diagram I used, the one that came with the button was really bad.

viking
08-05-2013, 01:39 AM
Your going love it after switching mine over last year I will never go backwards. Even if I get a new boat I will do this asap.

What switch did you go with if you don't mind me asking where you found it?
thanks

New Guy
08-05-2013, 09:21 PM
Here is my setup.


Stay awesome!

blackout_58
08-06-2013, 12:12 AM
New Guy, I like your setup, it looks very clean.

New Guy
08-06-2013, 10:51 AM
Thanks man.

switch came from here
http://www.otrattw.com/proddetail.php?prod=VVPZCSE-100

push button from here.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-push-button-pilot-switches/=ny31yn

Brockstar23
08-06-2013, 12:10 PM
Thank you for the info. I was having a hard time finding that switch.

Brock

viking
08-06-2013, 01:53 PM
Thanks Mark!
This is on my to-do list.........
(fine print - my to-do list is long and may take me a few years to get to everything :))

dusty2221
08-06-2013, 02:03 PM
That looks great Mark!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

New Guy
08-06-2013, 02:24 PM
Thanks guys, the only thing I might add is a secondary hidden lockout switch.

bergermaister
08-06-2013, 02:46 PM
Mark - nice man. Very clean.



(fine print - my to-do list is long and may take me a few years to get to everything :))

This I can relate to all to well...

EricU
08-06-2013, 04:50 PM
Here is my setup.

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=18068&d=1375748472

Stay awesome!


Is the Carling rocker a SPST that is used as a power cutoff (on, then start w/the button and also used to turn the engine off)
The button a momentary switch for starting?



Nice clean install.

New Guy
08-06-2013, 06:08 PM
Yes and Yes.
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/2005r6rider/ignswitch.jpg

kaneboats
08-07-2013, 12:14 AM
This is great stuff. Would someone like to put all the best stuff in a new How To thread for posterity. Post up a step by step how to with all the info and I'll sticky it. Ice cold tall boy for whoever does it!

94Boom
08-07-2013, 12:47 AM
That looks killer for sure. My race boat uses the same premise to fire it up, except in an open, non capsule boat my on/off switch is my kill switch which is attached to my racing jacket. I can reach for it easily in an emergency or it come off with me when I am tossed (both ways I have tested). In the capsule boat which I am strapped in a safety cell my on/off switch is a toggle switch with a large cover that makes it easy to shut off in an emergency. So in short you can use an ordinary two position toggle switch and a momentary start button, both of which are available at you local auto parts store. Definitely not as cool looking as the install that was posted, but an option.

Brian

94Boom
08-07-2013, 12:52 AM
18077

This was a pic where I had to shut the boat off in a hurry, I was glad the toggle switch was easy to find and hit. Might be something to keep in mind when installing this set up in our boats.

Brian

kaneboats
08-07-2013, 09:36 AM
That's a hot lookin' boat!

bergermaister
08-07-2013, 02:29 PM
That's a hot lookin' boat!
There's one in every crowd... :rolleyes:

viking
08-07-2013, 04:02 PM
looks fast............that thing must really cook

PS....there's usually more than just "1" in every crowd :)

REDFIVE48
08-08-2013, 10:11 AM
My push button switch had a confusing wire diagram and color scheme as it had 2 wires the same color and it said to hook 3 different wires up to the ignition. So in case anyone else ends up with a Pivot switch from the internet auction site, here is what my diagram looks like
18087