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bkearney
01-20-2012, 08:54 AM
I am looking to upgrade my boat speaker. No AMP yet, but I may in the future. I dont want to break the bank.. but looking for somehting above the stock ones I have. Do folks have experiences with either of these:

Infinity Reference 612m
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-612m-High-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B00292XT2I/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_2_2

Polk DB651
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-6-5-Inch-Coaxial-Speakers/dp/B000P0PF9G

Thanks in advance

-- bk

wolfeman131
01-20-2012, 09:07 AM
Polk DB651
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-6-5-Inch-Coaxial-Speakers/dp/B000P0PF9G


These are a favorite upgrade for many here. Do a search & you'll see all the good things people have to say about them.

There are a few folks looking to sell some amps cheap right now, so take advantage. I think KG's Supra and/or Ian Ashton can hook you up.

sandm
01-20-2012, 10:08 AM
polk all the way.. I love mine..

if I was doing it again I'd probably shoot Brian at Exile a text and see what his in-boats run. polks for a while were the best value out there tho.....

KG's Supra24
01-20-2012, 11:32 AM
The Polk DB are a solid upgrade for in boat speakers. However, I wouldn't upgrade speakers unless you plan on running an amp to them bc I doubt you see much difference on just a speaker swap.

rc5695
01-20-2012, 11:36 AM
FYI, there's a new set in the for sale section of the forum for $60 shipped, same price as your amazon link and you can help a fellow member out ;)

Wish I weren't closing on a house in the next couple weeks, or I'd have already snatched them...

bkearney
01-20-2012, 11:47 AM
No one to speak up for the Infinity's? They are sooo pretty.. and will match my boat :)

@KG: Two of the speakers are blown already (or had a foot go into them). So.. I figure I will do the spearks and plan for an amp later.

KG's Supra24
01-20-2012, 11:51 AM
The Polk DB's are proven. Also, you could paint the grills on the DB's. Dusty did.

What stock speakers do you have?

bkearney
01-20-2012, 11:52 AM
I have the stock (I think) Magnadyne speakers

rc5695
01-20-2012, 11:53 AM
Those infinity's are sweet looking.

I have no experience with Inifinity car speakers, just house. their house speakers are GREAT! Super clear. I've never been able to get big bass our of Infinity, but they are very clear and defined. Love 'em!

I've not had these exact model Polk's but loved all other Polk auto speakers I've had (except their subs)...not had good luck with their subs... Amazign customer service from Polk though. Call the company up whnever you want, ask them whatever you want. GREAT GREAT GREAT people!

Ryan

KG's Supra24
01-20-2012, 11:58 AM
Do you need 4 or 6 speakers?

The reason I ask is I might still have some of my stockers sitting out in the garage. They aren't "pretty" but you might be able to get matching speakers plus an amp for the price you are looking to spend on new speakers. Just thinking outloudas I haven't priced any of my stuff. Just spotted an opportunity to get rid of some stuff. :)

KSmith
01-20-2012, 12:07 PM
No one to speak up for the Infinity's? They are sooo pretty.. and will match my boat :)

@KG: Two of the speakers are blown already (or had a foot go into them). So.. I figure I will do the spearks and plan for an amp later.

I have the Infinity 612M, blue cones, chrome grills, looks and sounds great.

I bought the Polks and the Infinities, did a bench test in the garage and I decided I like the Infinities better.

KG's Supra24
01-20-2012, 12:19 PM
I have the Infinity 612M, blue cones, chrome grills, looks and sounds great.

I bought the Polks and the Infinities, did a bench test in the garage and I decided I like the Infinities better.

Bam, doesn't get better than that.

wolfeman131
01-20-2012, 12:20 PM
Also, you could paint the grills on the DB's. Dusty did.

I'm guessing pink was the color he chose. Pansie!

bkearney
01-20-2012, 12:21 PM
@KG Thanks for the offer.. but this is 1/2 "Get Better Sounds" and 1/2 "Make boat prettier".

@Ksmith Thanks for the comment!

KSmith
01-20-2012, 12:33 PM
The Polk and Infinity mentioned are both good speakers. Somewhat different sound. Infinitiy are IMHO cleaner. Which brings us to the main difference usually mentioned between the two, and that is Bass. The Infinity has Bass, good Bass, but I'd describe it a Crisp. Polks have Bass too of course which I'd describe as bit Warmer or Boomy when compared to the Crisp Infinity.

I preferred the Infinities, others prefer the Polk. It is a matter of taste as the quality, frequency response, etc, are similar, again IMHO.

bergermaister
01-20-2012, 02:11 PM
Considering where you're coming from you probably can't go wrong with any of those choices.

What I'm puzzled by is how did someone put a foot through a 6.5" speaker!? :eek:

bkearney
01-20-2012, 02:28 PM
I have a 13 year old and a 9 year old. _ANYTHING_ can happen... and usually does.

MLA
01-20-2012, 06:24 PM
If I had to give two pieces of advice, it would be A) choose a true marine speaker as in-boats get a lot of direct sunlight and stand to get rained on or water splashed on them. B) go ahead and budget for at least a moderate 4 chnl amp. A top of the line speaker can sound like poo poo with just the 15 watts from a head unit and a price-point speaker will sound golden with a little power behind it. Other then that, go with what your ears and eyes like as there are quite a few quality built and nice sounding brands out there.

mmandley
01-20-2012, 08:14 PM
I am looking to upgrade my boat speaker. No AMP yet, but I may in the future. I dont want to break the bank.. but looking for somehting above the stock ones I have. Do folks have experiences with either of these:

Infinity Reference 612m
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-612m-High-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B00292XT2I/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_2_2

Polk DB651
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-6-5-Inch-Coaxial-Speakers/dp/B000P0PF9G

Thanks in advance

-- bk

If you want to just bolt them up and go the POLK is the only real option. At 5 to 55 RMS power they can handle deck power and still perform resonably well. They really need that full 55 RMS power sent to them

The infinity is 75 RMS speaker and sending only 5 to 15 is really going to hurt them more then anything.

Sending to low a power to a speaker is much worse then sending to much clean power to them

If you dont want an amp upgrade go Polk.
Getting an amp upgrade go Infinity as it seems thats what you would prefer and your looking for a little push to there side lol.

bkearney
01-21-2012, 12:44 PM
@mmandly How will sending too little power hurt the speakers?

KSmith
01-21-2012, 06:25 PM
@mmandly How will sending too little power hurt the speakers?

The Infinities noted are rated 2-75 with peak 225, hard to see how pushing 5-15 is going to hurt them.

MLA
01-21-2012, 06:39 PM
When a speaker is under powered, its volume output is low. This makes it tough to overcome the wind, water and engine noise. To compensate, we turn the head-unit volume higher and higher in order to get over top of all that noise. As the head-unit volume is maxed out, the signal strength falls off and the signal starts to clip. We hear this in the form of distortion. This begins to heat the speaker motor structure. If this level of punishment is continued, it can lead to speaker failure.

So, the RMS rating of a speaker is a good target to shoot for with our amp power choice. A little under is ok, and it never hurts to be over either.

KSmith
01-21-2012, 07:03 PM
Indeed clipping is destructive to speakers, square waveforms suck, we get it, but that is a function of driving the amplifier (either internal or external to the head unit) beyond it's cababilities. It is trying to output more power than it can build, not less. That being a function of over zealous volume adjustment.

But that doesn't explain the statment that sending 5-15 watts thru a speaker rated 2-75 is going to damage the speaker. It may not be loud or sound great but pushing 5-15 thru a speaker rated for 2-75 certainly won't damage the speaker. That's voodoo science. If this theoretical head unit has a max out put of 15 RMS and it is pushed to clipping it'll kill the 5-55 RM speakers just as fast as the 2-75 RMS speakers...

"The infinity is 75 RMS speaker and sending only 5 to 15 is really going to hurt them more then anything.

Sending to low a power to a speaker is much worse then sending to much clean power to them "

MLA
01-21-2012, 07:43 PM
KSmith,

Its not the actual low power that is harmful to the speaker, its the scenario described above. Those Infinities would sound great and nice and loud off 15W when in the car doors of a chevy cavalier. But in the open environment of a boat, we would need to crank the volume up to hear them. Once we enter the distortion zone, the speaker is in danger of damage.

Here is another way to look at it. Think about driving a 4-banger on the Autobahn. You would have to keep the pedal matted just to keep pace with the V8 BMW's. Over time, that 4 cylinder drive-train is going to be warn out because it was pushed to its limits all the time. That little engine has absolutely no muscle in reserve to pass, its running wide open all the time. This is what would be asked of a speaker powered just off the head-unit when in a boat that's under way.

Hope this helps.

KSmith
01-21-2012, 08:02 PM
MLA, sure it helps. It helps illustrate that the statement of running Infinities rated at 2-75 at 5-15 watts is somehow harmful to the speaker is crap.

Your automotive analogy also again points to an amplifier lacking sufficient energy to drive a set of speakers in a noisy environment... There is no functional difference between the Infinity and Polks mentioned being run at low power/low volume, nor is there any difference in running either of these speakers to meltdown with an amp that is clipping.

The Polks are not going to provide some magical increase in measureable audible output than the Infinities running at 5-15 watts in a boat running WOT. They are both going to suck. To state that the Polks won't be harmed and the Infinities will is false, if the head is run to clipping they would both meltdown eventually.

Again the Infinities are rated 2-75, running them at 5-15 is not better, or worse, than running the 5-55 rated Polks at the same 5-15.

Hope this helps.

mmandley
01-21-2012, 08:32 PM
@mmandly How will sending too little power hurt the speakers?

I cant remember the exact terminaolgy right now but it has to do with the Speaker demands a certain amount of power and when its under powered it going to distort or pulls wattage from the amp creating a distortion. I cant remember exactly but i can tell you, not a day goes by when im in Brians office at Exile he doesnt say.

Dam these people, they want Premium speakers and want to run crap amps on them. They want crem de le creme looks and sound but dont want to buy a quality amp and they dont understand under powering speakers blows speakers as fast as way to much power.

Trust me, i know, this is why i only run quality amps.

As for the Infinity being 2-75RMS i couldnt find where it said that, all i saw was 75RMS.
If they are truly rated that low then it woldnt be an issue.
Although if i was spending a few hundo on speakers id spend another hundo on a decent amp. I would never run on deck power unless its a car dealer factory system because then they are matched low power setups.

Even for the new truck Brain got me hooked up with some pretty sweet old school seperates Exile used to make but there high demand speakers, so im waiting till i can get a proper amp for them before i install them. I could grab an 800.4 but its really to much power and larger amp physically then i want. I'm thinking of trying a digi amp on them.

MLA
01-21-2012, 08:56 PM
MLA, sure it helps. It helps illustrate that the statement of running Infinities rated at 2-75 at 5-15 watts is somehow harmful to the speaker is crap.

Your automotive analogy also again points to an amplifier lacking sufficient energy to drive a set of speakers in a noisy environment... There is no functional difference between the Infinity and Polks mentioned being run at low power/low volume, nor is there any difference in running either of these speakers to meltdown with an amp that is clipping.

The Polks are not going to provide some magical increase in measureable audible output than the Infinities running at 5-15 watts in a boat running WOT. They are both going to suck. To state that the Polks won't be harmed and the Infinities will is false, if the head is run to clipping they would both meltdown eventually.

Again the Infinities are rated 2-75, running them at 5-15 is not better, or worse, than running the 5-55 rated Polks at the same 5-15.

Hope this helps.

Mr. Smith,

Im not sure why you are attacking me, im just trying to help.

I have stated that under powering a speaker can be harmful. I have given some reasoning behind this statement. This is fact, not crap. I know 3 speaker builders that post here in this forum that will say the same. One of the most knowledgeable installers around will also agree. So at this point, there is nothing more I can say.

I have not printed one derogatory word about any brand or model in this thread. In fact, I dont recall anyone saying anything negative about either brand mentioned here.

My interpretation of an earlier post was this. If one is not going to install an external amp, then go with the less expensive of the two choices.

KSmith
01-21-2012, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE=MLA;165562]Mr. Smith,

Im not sure why you are attacking me, im just trying to help.

I have stated that under powering a speaker can be harmful. I have given some reasoning behind this statement. This is fact, not crap. I know 3 speaker builders that post here in this forum that will say the same. One of the most knowledgeable installers around will also agree. So at this point, there is nothing more I can say.
QUOTE]

Mr. MLA, not attacking you just the voodoo science. I can't say it any clearer, running 5-15 watts thru a speaker rated 2-75 IS NOT going to damage the speaker unless you are clipping the amp. Bottom line, running a speaker well within it's design specifications is NOT going to damage the speaker. If running a speaker below its RMS rating was going to damage it then speakers would be dropping dead all day long as users adjusted their volume down.

Maybe I can't explain it well enough. Perhaps this will help.

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

Buttafewcoe
01-22-2012, 05:35 AM
in a nutshell ..... you can always turn the gain on a 500w amp down, but there is only so far you can turn a 100w amp up w/o issues.
.
W/o an amp to drive them, speakers are just window dressing.
.
BTW, Pioneers baby.
.
MLAR

jmvotto
01-22-2012, 08:11 AM
I have the Infinity 612M, blue cones, chrome grills, looks and sounds great.

I bought the Polks and the Infinities, did a bench test in the garage and I decided I like the Infinities better.

Funny, I did the same a few years ago with both and choose the polks, while they were similar I like the Polk tweeter better , a little softer sound. The blue and the chrome bling were a slight turn off for me. IMO

Fwiw. I powered the polks first with the head unit, big improvement over the kenwoods. Then I added the jl 6600m 60 watts of power rms and they sounded 3x better. So matching power will only enhance the experience.

bkearney
01-22-2012, 08:28 AM
Thanks for all the info.. learning alot!

I will prepare my "any good suggestions on a cheap amp" and "how do I run 6 speakers off a 4 channel" email questions next :)

jmvotto
01-22-2012, 08:49 AM
Ian has a kicker 350.4 for sale in the classifieds I believe.

Run the cabin speakers in parallel off channel 1 and 2. The bows off 3 and 4.

KG's Supra24
01-22-2012, 09:26 AM
You can probably pick up a cheaper used on here.

As mentioned above Ian has one and I have a Kenwood 4 channel I'd sell.

JM is correct on wiring.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Nobodyrides4Free
01-22-2012, 10:48 PM
Bkearny,
I have Polk Momos in my boat. Needed to replace a few, bought the Infinitys. Disappointed compared to the Polks. I will be taking the Infinitys out when I get $$. Boat is getting rear swim deck repaired now with new brakets($600) Spider cracks . Go with the POLKS.......My boat has 8 polks and 2 infinitys. I intended on putting the infinitys in my tower cans and would have to redrill all the holes. So I put them by the cup holders. You can sure tell the difference because they are facing eachother. They are ran off the same amp as well. The infinity desorts more at high volume than the polk. I have been thinking of up-grading to the newer better speakers $1000. But thats alot of Dough for 2 speakers and cans. Wish list now. You can get the Polks on E-bay for $179.00 High end Polks. You won't be disappointed. Just power them with a good amp like everone says. My boat rocks at all party coves, not many boats take me out Except the WETS and Exciles . Good Luck Rick

bkearney
01-30-2012, 08:55 AM
Perhaps the last dumb question.. I assume i want a marine rated amp? Even doing lake only... the way that moomba covers get water i assume I want an amp which has hte circuits coated?

KG's Supra24
01-30-2012, 09:45 AM
Depending on where you are placing your amp, marine rated is not requirement, imo.

kaneboats
01-30-2012, 10:00 AM
Nah, just mount 'em high n' dry.

jmvotto
01-30-2012, 10:06 AM
Nah, just mount 'em high n' dry.

Yep, as kane said, Marine is water resistant not waterproof.
if you swamp either they will fry....