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View Full Version : Replacing 700gph Rule with Tsunami 800. Is it worth it?



louisiana21v
03-06-2012, 12:15 AM
So I'm upgrading my ballast intake to dual Tsunami 1200's with a larger manifold for the three sprinkler valves. I know this isn't the best way but it fits my budget. So my plan also included replacing the drain pumps with Tsunami 800's, until I realized my current pumps were 700 gph pumps. They still work fine, so will I see enough flow increase to justify the change? Anyone else replace the factory rules with Tsunami's

mmandley
03-06-2012, 12:28 AM
I have not replaced mine, but i do run Tsunamis for my bow sac. The only real difference i see is the Tsumani seems to drain better, it never gets air locked like my rear V drives.

As for drain time you would pick up a little faster drain but not enough for me to justify replacing them unless you had extras laying around.

louisiana21v
03-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Anybody ever run the 1200's for empty pumps?

bergermaister
03-06-2012, 10:11 PM
Yep - run 1200's on all of mine for both fill and drain. (ok, there's one Rule 1100 in there still but it's close)

kaneboats
03-06-2012, 11:55 PM
Where do you guys get your connections for the tsumani 1200's. It has some goofy thread on it.

bergermaister
03-06-2012, 11:57 PM
I could tell ya but then I'd have to kill ya.

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 12:00 AM
I looked at Wakemakers stuff but they only have one thing. I need about 5 different options at this point. Should have seen my cart at Lowes the other night -- it was overflowing with crap.

bergermaister
03-07-2012, 12:16 AM
Researched this to death - basically there is no direct connection fitting to go from the funky PROPRIETARY thread on the T-1200 to a 1" fitting. Even to a hose barb fitting. I actually drew up specs to have some made that went from the funky 1-1/8"(?) thread to a 1" NPT, but the places I was contacting wanted a minimum 10,000 quantity order so that was the end of that conversation.

You can use an Attwood 3902 (straight fitting) or the ones that are a 90-degree bend from Wakemakers - both are for a 1-1/8" hose but if you heat the hell out of the 1" hose and lube it up some you can get it to fit over.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1070013.jpg

http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-straight-t1200-3902-1.html

http://www.wakemakers.com/attwood-elbow-1-inch.html

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1070039.jpg

mnpracing
03-07-2012, 01:58 AM
I talked to Spencer at WM the other day, and he said that Attwood is releasing a T1200 with "regular 1 inch threads". Said they'd have 'em in about a month. I'm going to wait for those to do my ballast upgrade rather than dealing with the funky 1-1/8" threads on the current version.

bergermaister
03-07-2012, 10:02 AM
Dang - that would have been nice. Seems like I heard a rumor about that before with the 1" threads but it never materialized. Sure love my 1200's though.

So Kane, I'm curious now what you're up to? My ballast project consisted of about 100+ hrs of research (aka killing time at work), some "beer theory" planning with Newty, then 10-15 hrs of actual work!

rdlangston13
03-07-2012, 10:36 AM
ok awesome, i too was wondering about the fitting on T1200 cause i was researching ballast upgrade options. my main question is this. if i put two more thru hulls in the boat, get rid of the sprinkler valves and manifold and have one t1200 per bag and a vented loop, would it be self priming or would i have to still do the whole get up to speed to prime thing? dont plan on doing this any time soon but thinking about this stuff helps me keep my sanity while in the ocean

dusty2221
03-07-2012, 10:59 AM
As long as your pumps are as low to the hull ass possible and below the water line of the lake, they should prime just fine while sitting still.

brain_rinse
03-07-2012, 11:08 AM
I have 4 1200s mounted nice and low and the only time I have to plane out to prime them is after winter or a really long tow. Also I started with vented loops and scrapped them in favor of check valves which have been much more reliable.

Edit: I used the 1" hose stretched/clamped over the 1 1/8" thread on my system.

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 11:09 AM
So Kane, I'm curious now what you're up to? My ballast project consisted of about 100+ hrs of research (aka killing time at work), some "beer theory" planning with Newty, then 10-15 hrs of actual work!

I always have plenty of people in the boat so I don't run that much ballast. But I need to be able to change over a lot quicker. Right now I have 2 Rule 1200 pumps on a T going to my modified manifold. I have a single line going to the surf bag (750), the center bag and the under seat surf side bag. We only fill the center locker when we wakeboard and don't surf goofy so I don't need anything but the cooler in the starboard locker.

I think I'm going to keep the 2 rules filling to my modified manifold cuz they are pretty fast just filling the two 400 lb bags. I'm adding a vent line on the center bag that will Y or T back to the drain line. I have a check valve for the new line.

I have another intake I want to install. I also have an extra Rule 1200 and now a Tsunami 1200. I'm going to add a T, 2 ball valves and then the two pumps. I want to send two fill lines (I"m working with all 3/4" because I now have tons of the stuff thanks to you) to the surf bag. I have a check valve for each line. I think I can get my total fill time to under 5 min. The tricky part is getting from the ball valve to the Tsunami and back to 3/4" hose. Once I have that worked out I'll do my install.

rdlangston13
03-07-2012, 11:18 AM
I have 4 1200s mounted nice and low and the only time I have to plane out to prime them is after winter or a really long tow. Also I started with vented loops and scrapped them in favor of check valves which have been much more reliable.

Edit: I used the 1" hose stretched/clamped over the 1 1/8" thread on my system.

i thought the purpose of the vented loop was to prevent unwanted filling while underway, how does a check valve accomplish this?

brain_rinse
03-07-2012, 11:23 AM
i thought the purpose of the vented loop was to prevent unwanted filling while underway, how does a check valve accomplish this?
You are right. I'd just add that a vented loop is also intended to prevent unwanted draining as well.

In my case the bags never filled underway, but would always drain - even with the loops. I went through 2 types of vented loops before switching to the check valves.

rdlangston13
03-07-2012, 11:38 AM
You are right. I'd just add that a vented loop is also intended to prevent unwanted draining as well.

In my case the bags never filled underway, but would always drain - even with the loops. I went through 2 types of vented loops before switching to the check valves.

sounds like using both would be the best bet!

brain_rinse
03-07-2012, 11:42 AM
sounds like using both would be the best bet!
The check valves shouldn't be needed if you can get the loops working as they are intended. I just had no luck with them. And I had no filling underway so it was an easy decision. As a bonus the check valves are cheaper and easier to install.

rdlangston13
03-07-2012, 11:46 AM
The check valves shouldn't be needed if you can get the loops working as they are intended. I just had no luck with them. And I had no filling underway so it was an easy decision. As a bonus the check valves are cheaper and easier to install.

you should really go back and put the pictures in your 08 lsv mods thread. i think it is suffering from the forum format change

brain_rinse
03-07-2012, 12:05 PM
you should really go back and put the pictures in your 08 lsv mods thread. i think it is suffering from the forum format change
I know... it's on the "to do" list. In the meantime if you need a specific pic let me know.

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 12:08 PM
Based on his experience and moombadaze I'm skipping the vented loops. The mushroom type intake should be OK for not filling by itself when underway. The check valves will definitely keep it from draining itself. I'll let you know how it works in the next couple of weeks. I have to get done cuz it's supposed to be 81 on Thurs. and we have high 70's for the next 10 days. Spring has sprung around here. I'm way behind.

bergermaister
03-07-2012, 12:36 PM
Come on Kane, pictures, I need pictures...

Good call on the check valves. As mentioned in the past, 1" vented loops are huge and therefore a pain to find a place to mount. I don't fill underway but was worried about draining so probably could have gone that route instead and saved some hassle and $$. Oh well!

David, if you do end up going with individual thru hulls and pumps mounted low at some point - be wary about cutting down the height of the thru hulls to get the pump setup lower. I used one of these http://www.wakemakers.com/bronze-mushroom-thru-hull-intake.html and after talking to AlCab was nervous about the height and self priming so I cut it down. Not being a plumber I soon learned about tapered threads when trying to attach my ball valve to it...

louisiana21v
03-07-2012, 01:14 PM
Awesome. Sounds like the 1" 1200' s will work great as drain pumps.
On another note. I pulled the floor panels up and noticed the lines for the front ballast bag were crushes at the front of the gas tank. I cut a notch in the floor panel to give clearance. Hopefully this will help with flow.

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 01:43 PM
I've heard that before. I may have to pull my floor and have a looksee.

brain_rinse
03-07-2012, 01:58 PM
David, if you do end up going with individual thru hulls and pumps mounted low at some point - be wary about cutting down the height of the thru hulls to get the pump setup lower. I used one of these http://www.wakemakers.com/bronze-mushroom-thru-hull-intake.html and after talking to AlCab was nervous about the height and self priming so I cut it down. Not being a plumber I soon learned about tapered threads when trying to attach my ball valve to it...
This is great advice. Wakemakers worked with me to find some short thru-hull intakes. There are other ways to keep it low but I liked that option the best.

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 02:02 PM
Not worried about that one. My new thru-hull is only 2 1/4" tip to tip. By the time in install and put a T on it the T will sit only an inch and a half off the floor. I might have to put a couple elbows on it just so there's clearance to screw the pumps in.

brain_rinse
03-07-2012, 02:38 PM
Not worried about that one. My new thru-hull is only 2 1/4" tip to tip. By the time in install and put a T on it the T will sit only an inch and a half off the floor. I might have to put a couple elbows on it just so there's clearance to screw the pumps in.
Nice! Sounds like your going to have a really nice surf setup.

Mikes
03-07-2012, 03:16 PM
Lots of good ideas here,thanks guys. You have me itching to start on our G1 redo. Has anyone done this a step at a time or is it better to do it all together?

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 03:32 PM
It's all a step at a time. I would definitely start with 1 new thru-hull and getting 2 pumps going on each thru-hull. That's the best bang for the buck. Also, if you decide to stay with sprinkler valves for now you can make your own manifold out of PVC for about $15 so it has 2 water inlets instead of one.

Mikes
03-07-2012, 03:42 PM
Right now we have a manifold with 3 valves but only use 1.

kaneboats
03-07-2012, 03:44 PM
Are the other ones plugged or capped? I would not invest in sprinkler valves for that thing knowing what I know now. Then again, it sounds like they did make it easily expandable to a GIII setup.

Mikes
03-07-2012, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the info the other 2 valves have a 1/4 turn cap if that makes sense.

rdlangston13
03-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Based on his experience and moombadaze I'm skipping the vented loops. The mushroom type intake should be OK for not filling by itself when underway. The check valves will definitely keep it from draining itself. I'll let you know how it works in the next couple of weeks. I have to get done cuz it's supposed to be 81 on Thurs. and we have high 70's for the next 10 days. Spring has sprung around here. I'm way behind.

im not going to be doing this any time soon so dont wait on me!

louisiana21v
03-14-2012, 09:37 PM
Any suggestions on the best way to wire in the dual 1200's?

bergermaister
03-15-2012, 12:01 AM
Well sure but how do you want them to work? You talking one fill, one drain, or dual fill/drain?

louisiana21v
03-15-2012, 09:59 AM
Sorry. Guess that was kinda vague. I'm using both to fill through sprinkled valves. Looks like they only draw half the amps of the rule, so guess I could just connect into factory wiring. Am I gonna starve these through the 3/4" through hull? I've seen conflicting opinions on this.

bergermaister
03-15-2012, 11:46 AM
That is correct - I have 5amp fuses on my T-1200's, and a 10amp on my Rule 1100. So the wiring will be the easy part. Plumbing it in with the T-1200's larger water inlet and outlet will be the tricky part. Search around on the forum - lots of discussions and a few different approaches using a combination of adapters/reducers or hose barb type fittings.

Lots of guys move away from the sprinkler valve setups and add more thru hulls once they get into it though.

I'll go out on a limb here ;) and say YES, you won't see full flow if you are running multiple T-1200's at the same time on a single 3/4". Way too small. I am running all one inch and have two T-1200's sharing a thru hull. Running them both at the same time definitely slows down flow. I don't have exact timing but it is noticeable for sure.

You'd also get more flow through 1" lines than 3/4" lines on a single pump in a side by side comparison but the difference won't be huge. Depends on what you're aiming for and how patient you are.

kaneboats
03-15-2012, 12:46 PM
On the second side I'm adding, I'm going to use a single 3/4" thru hull to two 1" hoses to a T1200 and a Rule 1200 that will each have a 3/4" line going to its own port in the 750 bag. I'll report my results as soon as I git 'er done.

louisiana21v
03-17-2012, 11:04 PM
Pulled the factory thru-hull today. I used a heat gun to warm the sealant and a long 1/2" extention to wiggle it loose from the top. I'm ordering a 1" from wakemakers, the hole in the hull is about 1-1/2", I think the 1" should fit right in. This should feed the 2 1200 tsunamis better. I started this thread talking about empty pumps and now I'm stuck on the intake setup. Sorry to change gears.