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TL7
05-05-2012, 06:54 PM
I have a 2010 LSV. We do the majority of our riding in rivers, but occasionally we go to lakes as well. I currently have Moomba Cruise - standard version without the readout. Which PP should I be looking at to upgrade and why?

rdlangston13
05-05-2012, 08:16 PM
same question

TL7
05-05-2012, 10:21 PM
To expand a little, if I mainly ride in a river, and I set the gps based PP to my liking, wouldn't that be ok? And if the river happens to be running faster or slower, just adjust for that day?

Or is it a land speed vs water speed/paddle wheel issue? Why is this so confusing to me?

Lastly, will this work on a 2010 and does anyone have any hands on with it?

http://www.hydrophase.com/

skiyaker
05-05-2012, 10:33 PM
l have no experience running on a river, but I am the proud owner of PP wakeboard pro (paddle wheel based) on my moomba and PP stargazer (GPS based) on my ski boat.

the stargazer is extremely accurate without having to calibrate it- it locks onto the satellites so your good to go- but your right it reads speed relative to the "ground speed" so if you are on a river that has current of 2 mph you would have the sensation that you're running 2 mph fast going upstream and 2mph slow going downstream- somebody who actually rides on a river will chime in here I'm sure regarding how much difference that makes. Sure you could adjust the speed each way but that could be a hassle. It's great on the slalom course because of its accuracy and ease of use, and for what it's worth I can always flip the stargazer over to the paddle wheel mode if I want.

the wakeboard pro works great but the main downside as I see it is that once a year I check it with a handheld GPS to make sure it's calibrated correctly- not hard to do, and because it reads the speed of the boat relative to the water not the ground it might be more convenient if you ride on a river frequently. The other thing is that if your paddle wheel isn't picking up properly you can have some funny things happen to your boat speed- but this hasn't been a problem for me.

mmandley
05-05-2012, 11:13 PM
If your going to invest get the GPS based version. You dont need to to adjust for river currents or anything. Paddle wheel needs to be adjusted for river currents.

skiyaker
05-05-2012, 11:31 PM
best answer probably comes from the perfect pass people themselves

4. Q. We ride in a river with significant current, is GPS the right way to go?
GPS is based on speed over ground, so if you have strong currents you may wish to stay with the paddle wheel. Running Star Gazer in slow currents may require a tweak of the set speed to adjust for the current.

http://www.perfectpass.com/?q=faq

rdlangston13
05-05-2012, 11:40 PM
If your going to invest get the GPS based version. You dont need to to adjust for river currents or anything. Paddle wheel needs to be adjusted for river currents.

this sounds totally not right. i would do gps and just adjust for the current.

bergermaister
05-06-2012, 12:16 AM
Yes - you DO, or at least I have had to adjust the GPS PP speed for river currents. Did a bunch of research on it as I debated on going with Stargazer or Paddle wheel last summer when I did this. Talked to Gary, the president of PP, explained the whole river current situation.

His advice was go with the GPS version because you can't beat the ease of install and accuracy. Going "beep beep beep" a few times on the up or down arrows if necessary to adjust isn't really that big of a deal for most people. He said if you're not happy with it, another $100 and you can add a paddle wheel and have the best of both worlds. Just unplug the GPS from the control module when you want to run off the paddle. Easy enough as they are usually mounted right under the helm.

Gary is a standup guy - gave me free overnight shipping clear across the continent and even threw in an extra discount for sending him back some photos of my PP install. I'd go with his advice any day.

Boonejeepin
05-06-2012, 02:40 AM
With the basic moomba cruise is the install of pp easy?

TL7
05-06-2012, 02:53 AM
Another question. I have the triangle shaped display in the center of the dash where the EZ cruise is. Do they make a display that fits there? If you just go with the 3.5 to replace speedo do you just leave the EZ cruise there taking up space? Surely someone has thought of some cool ideas.

skiyaker
05-06-2012, 09:02 AM
Another question. I have the triangle shaped display in the center of the dash where the EZ cruise is. Do they make a display that fits there? If you just go with the 3.5 to replace speedo do you just leave the EZ cruise there taking up space? Surely someone has thought of some cool ideas.

I had the triangular moomba cruise also before I upgraded- they make a display that fits that space
here's what it looks like- pic I took when I turned 200hrs

deepcove
05-06-2012, 11:25 AM
I have used both and am a bigger fan of the paddle wheel version. I have had issues with the GPS not able to read satellites and cutting out.....very frustrating. Also I prefer water speed over land speed when running in currents. Land speed can make your pull feel too slow or too fast depending which way the current is running. Having said this all my friends who are course skiers prefer GPS for this application.

mmandley
05-06-2012, 02:37 PM
I might be wrong but from how i know GPS to work River currents dont matter to boat speed. Ok it might matter to the rider but not the boat.

GPS works because it uses 3 geo orbital satalights and they triangulate your position relative to the other 2. This is how it measures how much you actualy travel. It wouldnt matter if you sat in a river all day, you could sit in one spot and toss a bottle over the side, the bottle would take off but you wouldnt and so the GPS says your going 0 mph.

With a Paddel Wheel system you can anchor the boat in a river and look at your speedo and it can say 10 mph because the current is spinning that speedo. This is exactly why a paddel wheel isnt as acurate as GPS, a paddel wheel is relative to the water flowing under the boat.

The real answer is in a River neigher system is better, a river will always cause you problems with exact speed.

I say get the GPS because its the most accurate the most amount of time. If nothing else, once you ride in the river that day, you will know exactly what speed to set your GPS at.

The paddel wheel will always have varience in it, due to it being a wheel spinning under the boat in water.

This is the same reason cars when from the old speedo cable to the transmission to Sensors that read a magnetic pickup in the transmission.

TL7
05-06-2012, 04:42 PM
From what I've read and heard, I've just about convinced myself to go with the GPS based PP. Now I have a few more questions. First, do I need to buy the whole $1100 system? Seems I've seen before on here that our boats are pre-wired for PP. If this is the case, what exactly do I need to buy? Sure would be nice to not have to shell out that much. Which leads me to my second question. I see the display that skiyaker got (above in this thread) and that would be optimal because then I don't have the previous cruise just sitting there worthless, however, mine is a bit different than his. I've attached a picture of what I have, though it's not my boat just a pic I found. Mine is all one piece. Do they send a new bezel if you get the one like skiyaker? If not, and I get the 3.5" round gauge to replace the speedo, what should I do with the old cruise spot?

Sorry for all the questions!

14170

maxpower220
05-06-2012, 05:28 PM
TL7,
Call perfect Pass on Monday. They are very helpful and can answer any question that you may have about the system and how it works in your boat. While you may be able to find the system a little cheaper (around $50), you get free shipping and it comes from Canada.

Being "pre-wired" means that the wires in the dash will plug directly into the PP unit without splicing into your wiring harness. You will need the "whole" system. Using your speedo hole will give you a larger display with more lines. It will be a personal choice, but PP may have a recommendation on which location to use.

TL7
05-06-2012, 05:59 PM
That's what I figured about the wiring. I'm definitely going to call them tomorrow - just anxious to find out anything beforehand so I don't sound like a bumbling idiot. At least to anyone other than you guys.

I personally would prefer the 3.5 readout and then figure out a way to attach my iphone bracket where the old cruise was. But who knows what tomorrow will bring!

bhowell
05-07-2012, 11:00 AM
I have Stargazer and run in a river. The current hasn't ever been strong enough for me to ask the driver to be adjusting the speed based on up river / down river. If it did need, adjusting it's very easy. The install is very easy as well. Stargazer is the way to go.

TL7
05-07-2012, 11:19 AM
OK, just got off the phone with Perfect Pass and was told it would not work on a 2010 Moomba. Said that the ECM was changed and it won't communicate. Did I just get a hold of a bad tech and confuse him saying I wanted to upgrade from Moomba EZ Cruise? Does anyone have a 2009 or later with Perfect Pass? He said I would have to go with Zero Off.

KSmith
05-07-2012, 11:24 AM
Zero off was what I was told was my upgrade path as well for my 2010 OBV.

Call Cynde at Alt Marine, she can get you a quote on the hardware upgrade I would think. Heidi gave me a quote a year or so ago when I was thinking about upgrading from Moomba Cruise...