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View Full Version : Need help choosing amps for my setup



oleblue22
05-20-2012, 11:51 PM
Let me say first this seems like a great site, lots of good info. First time poster, long time reader. I have an 05 outback LSV. Looking to upgrade my sound system.

Here's what I have now. Tower speakers are two Kicker KMT6, cabin speakers are 6 polk db651's. I also have a 10" kicker cvt 2 ohm sub.

I have a hand me down jensen 2 channel 500 watt amp pushing the tower speakers and the cabin speakers. The head unit doesn't have any speakers hooked to it. The jensen is running everything. The sub is not hooked up only mounted in the boat. Needless to say this aint workin for me. The amp will push the speakers and it sounds descent but it gets super hot. It's in the storage compartment under the glovebox so there's not much air circulation there anyway.

My head unit is a kenwood kmr 440u.

I need some recommendations for an amp to run my 6 cabin speakers 2 tower speakers and one sub. If I need to do two amps so be it. I only have one battery for now but I can add another one if need be. Sorry for the long post but I'm pretty new at this audio stuff so go easy on me. I really appreciate your help.

Feel free to throw in any other recommendations as well as tips, wire size, mounting locations etc.

viking
05-21-2012, 02:07 AM
I'd go Exile but that's because that's what I'd do!
I'm partial to JL audio if not Exile. I run 2 MHD amps right now so you can see I don't take shortcuts and I like the "good stuff"

oleblue22
05-21-2012, 11:14 AM
Ill check out exile. I need some specifics guys, like amp channels, wattage etc. I appreciate it.

brain_rinse
05-21-2012, 11:41 AM
You'll want 2 amps, and I'd recommend Class D. Not sure I'll ever buy a class A/B amp again...

oleblue22
05-21-2012, 12:13 PM
What two amps would you recommend? I was gonna go with class d amps.

sandm
05-21-2012, 12:20 PM
so lets ask what you are looking for. do you sit in a party cove for hours on end or looking for a basic system to get some noise around for the family?

dedicated party cove system, look at exile, wetsounds, zapco, some of that stuff. for just a basic system to pump some noise around, I'd probably look at some kicker stuff. They make a great setup that will fill the air with noise..

my system, i'd look for a solid 250wpc 2ch amp for the towers, and a 5ch amp to run the inboat and subs. something around 50-75wpc for the 4ch inboat and 200w for the sub channel. again, that's assuming you are not looking for a party cove setup.

post up some more info on what you plan to do, what you use the system for primarily and the big one--budget..

EarmarkMarine
05-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Definitely fullrange Class D amplifiers. It's the technology for this century. It's not 1975 anymore.
Switching speeds in the newest generation of switching class amplifiers are 20 to 40 times what is normally audible at the high end in a boat.
60 percent more efficient so they sip current instead of gulping it.
Dominant in ProSound.
More dynamic sounding.
Popular in many of the top self-powered studio monitors (where your music is mixed).
Now used by many esoteric home stereo companies like Krell, Mark Levinson, Bang & Olufsen and many more.
Recently Class D fullrange amplification was included in the 'Absolute Sound' round table discussion which included many of the finest amplifier designers over the previous decades.
Adopted in car audio and marine by JL Audio, Alpine, Hertz, Kicker, Arc Audio, Rockford Fosgate, Phoenix Gold and now Wetsounds to name a few.
The migration to fullrange Class D will absolutely continue. The only ones to have something negative to say about it are the ones that do NOT have it.

David
Earmark Marine

oleblue22
05-21-2012, 01:45 PM
so lets ask what you are looking for. do you sit in a party cove for hours on end or looking for a basic system to get some noise around for the family?

dedicated party cove system, look at exile, wetsounds, zapco, some of that stuff. for just a basic system to pump some noise around, I'd probably look at some kicker stuff. They make a great setup that will fill the air with noise..

my system, i'd look for a solid 250wpc 2ch amp for the towers, and a 5ch amp to run the inboat and subs. something around 50-75wpc for the 4ch inboat and 200w for the sub channel. again, that's assuming you are not looking for a party cove setup.

post up some more info on what you plan to do, what you use the system for primarily and the big one--budget..

I want something I can play for a couple hours or so in a cove without it getting too hot and shutting down. So not an all out super expensive setup but a reliable one that I can play loud. I would like to stay under 600 for both amps.

Can I find an amp that will run six 4ohm speakers and one 2 ohm sub?

EarmarkMarine
05-21-2012, 02:15 PM
For heat dissipation first consider the heat generation...
Class AB at 50 percent efficiency draws 200 watts of supply to create 100 watts of power to the speakers. 100 watts of heat is generated for every 100 watts of output.
Class D at 80 percent efficiency draws 125 watts of supply to create 100 watts of power to the speakers. 25 watts of heat is generated for every 100 watts of output.
So Class AB creates FOUR times (100 vs 25) the heat of Class D to produce the same output level.
So there is a huge thermal differential. Also, amplifiers tend to run less efficiently and dissipate heat less efficiently at lower voltage levels. A less efficient amplifier encourages much less available voltage. That causes a profoundly negative cycle.

David
Earmark Marine

EarmarkMarine
05-21-2012, 02:20 PM
Sure. Most any 5-channel amplifier will handle six 4-ohm coaixials and a single 2-ohm subwoofer.

David
Earmark Marine

sandm
05-21-2012, 04:32 PM
I totally agree with everything david spoke of, but I would think in his price range, class d might be out of it, and there are thousands of boats out there with non class-d stuff in them working just fine.
like anything, as they become more readily available, the price will drop as well.

to op-call david at earmark and he will surely have some good solutions from the a/b camp and be able to offer pricing on class d stuff so you can make the decision for yourself :) they are good folks there....

oleblue22
05-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Sure. Most any 5-channel amplifier will handle six 4-ohm coaixials and a single 2-ohm subwoofer.

David
Earmark Marine


Would this amp run my setup without getting superhot? I have little to no air circulation where my amp is mounted.

Kicker ZXM700.5 (10ZXM700.5)
700W RMS, 5-Channel ZXM Series Marine Amplifier (ZXM7005)

I'm guessing its only a d class on the subwoofer side.


Or this one. Little out of my price range but if it would run my setup I may go for it.

JL Audio M700/5
700W 5-Channel Class D M-Series Marine Amplifier

sandm
05-21-2012, 08:00 PM
I'd take the jl in a heartbeat. that doesn't fix your tower scenario unless you are going to keep the jensen for that for the time being..

oleblue22
05-21-2012, 11:32 PM
I found this one for the tower speakers. What do you think?

JL Audio M200/2-

jmvotto
05-21-2012, 11:54 PM
I'd take the jl in a heartbeat. that doesn't fix your tower scenario unless you are going to keep the jensen for that for the time being..

X2........

dusty2221
05-22-2012, 12:01 AM
I would take Davids recommendations on the amp. It may be a bit out of budget now but look at it this way...buy the wrong amp now and then buy the proper one later, or just boy the correct one from the get go. A bit more cost up front, but you are done and know everything matches the way it should.

E4NASH
05-22-2012, 09:45 AM
Let me say first this seems like a great site, lots of good info. First time poster, long time reader. I have an 05 outback LSV. Looking to upgrade my sound system.

Here's what I have now. Tower speakers are two Kicker KMT6, cabin speakers are 6 polk db651's. I also have a 10" kicker cvt 2 ohm sub.

I have a hand me down jensen 2 channel 500 watt amp pushing the tower speakers and the cabin speakers. The head unit doesn't have any speakers hooked to it. The jensen is running everything. The sub is not hooked up only mounted in the boat. Needless to say this aint workin for me. The amp will push the speakers and it sounds descent but it gets super hot. It's in the storage compartment under the glovebox so there's not much air circulation there anyway.

My head unit is a kenwood kmr 440u.

I need some recommendations for an amp to run my 6 cabin speakers 2 tower speakers and one sub. If I need to do two amps so be it. I only have one battery for now but I can add another one if need be. Sorry for the long post but I'm pretty new at this audio stuff so go easy on me. I really appreciate your help.

Feel free to throw in any other recommendations as well as tips, wire size, mounting locations etc.

I had this EXACT speaker setup in my previous '05 LS except I had the 12" cvt. Also had the same HU. The two amps I used were the Kicker ZXM 700.5 for the in-boats and Sub. For the towers I used the Kicker ZXM 450.2. This system ROCKED in my old boat. If you are on a budget it's not a bad way to go. I got both of those amps for about $500 total on Ebay brand new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EarmarkMarine
05-22-2012, 10:48 AM
oleblue22,
In a two-channel amplifier, you will need a 450 watt total power at the 2-ohm load rating in order to deliver the 2 x 150 watts that your tower speakers would like at a 4-ohm load. For one pair of 4-ohm tower speakers it's customary to go with a bridged 4-channel amplifier as it is usually a more cost effective way to achieve the right power.

David
Earmark Marine

oleblue22
05-22-2012, 11:53 AM
[QUOTE=E4NASH;178942]I had this EXACT speaker setup in my previous '05 LS except I had the 12" cvt. Also had the same HU. The two amps I used were the Kicker ZXM 700.5 for the in-boats and Sub. For the towers I used the Kicker ZXM 450.2. This system ROCKED in my old boat. If you are on a budget it's not a bad way to go. I got both of those amps for about $500 total on Ebay brand new.

Do you have any pictures of your old setup? Did you run two batteries? Did the amps ever get hot and shut off on you? I'm in between the kicker amps and the jl audio class d amps.

E4NASH
05-22-2012, 12:16 PM
I did have two batteries and yea the 700.5 would shut off if it was being played REALLY loud for a LONG period of time. I think that only happened once or twice. What helped was if we were sitting in the "party cove" with the radio cranked we'd open the compartment and the seat cushion in front to get air circulating and that seemed to help. There should be some pics in my gallery on this site. Click in my profile and check them out. I have the 700.5 in my new boat too and I haven't had that problem yet and we crank it pretty good.

From the old boat:

14484






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oleblue22
05-22-2012, 01:21 PM
I can get the kicker 700.5 and the kicker 450.2 for just under $700 here locally brand new from an authorized dealer. He can't get jl but online looks like it'll be upwards of $900. I know the jls are better being class d and all but if I knew I could play these kickers loud without them shutting off due to heat I'd probably just go with them.

E4NASH
05-22-2012, 01:44 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think you will have to worry about thermal shutdown with any amp you go to except for maybe a Class H. I know down here in the south when the temps are over 90 degrees and if you are running an amp or 2 in that enclosed compartment the temp inside that compartment can easily get over 120 degrees! If you are banging the tunes out loud and long it's going to shutdown on ya.

I'm not a Kicker homer by any means. Just speaking from the experience I've had with those amps. The Kicker gear I've had in my boats have been the only Kicker gear I've ever had. I put the same gear in my new boat because of the experience I had with them in the old one. The new boat came with the 700.5 and the Kicker Cabins. So far I have been pleased with them and they will work for me until I can drop the coin on my full Wetsounds system.

oleblue22
05-23-2012, 10:59 AM
The class d's are supposed to run alot cooler. I found a guy online says he can get the jl 700.5 for $329 and the jl 400.4 for $259. Both class d amps. Probably gonna go with those two if his prices are right and in stock.

matt75
05-30-2012, 04:03 PM
I run a kicker ix500.4, kicker ix1000.1, arc audio 300.2, and arc audio 300.4. Two srm-29's for stereo. I drained both batteries playing volume about 50-70% last Sunday (almost 4hrs playing). Weather was low 90's.

The amps were warm to touch, but didn't go into protect mode. Started having problems with kickers when voltage went down below 12v.

Do it right first time...wish I had!

oleblue22
06-01-2012, 07:57 AM
I have a jl 700.5 class d marine amp for the cabins and sub and the kicker 450.2 for the towers on the way. Should be here next week. Think I'm gonna go ahead and add an extra battery while im at it also. I was gonna come off the battery with 1gauge wire into two 4 gauge wires to the amps through distro boxes. Would this be the best way to go about it? Thanks for the help.

MLA
06-01-2012, 10:15 AM
I have a jl 700.5 class d marine amp for the cabins and sub and the kicker 450.2 for the towers on the way. Should be here next week. Think I'm gonna go ahead and add an extra battery while im at it also. I was gonna come off the battery with 1gauge wire into two 4 gauge wires to the amps through distro boxes. Would this be the best way to go about it? Thanks for the help.

You are on the right path. 4ga to each amp with a 1/0 trunk line is perfect for those two amp. Just be sure to include some primary circuit protection on the 1/0 B+ right off the battery and you will be set. Id say a 100A fuse or breaker (my preference) would do you.

oleblue22
06-03-2012, 01:04 AM
Copy that, I'll include a circuit breaker. I just ordered the perko battery switch and picked up a marine deep cell battery for my second battery setup. The wiring looks pretty simple. Does an extra wire need to run from the starter or can I use the one that's in place now to hook to the perko?

MLA
06-03-2012, 04:14 AM
Everything thats connected to your current battery's + post, except the auto bilge wire, needs to be moved to the "C" post of the new switch.

oleblue22
06-03-2012, 09:52 AM
Ok that's easy enough. So I just leave the factory circuit breaker in place? I have some 1 gauge welding cable leads. Would it work for my trunk lines off the battery and for connecting the two batteries together?

oleblue22
06-15-2012, 05:47 PM
Got everything installed yesterday. Sounds amazing compared to what it did before. I did the perko battery switch with dual batteries. I ended up going with the kicker 450.2 for the towers and the JL audio 700.5 for the cabins and sub. That JL is super small and light but it really puts out the power. Replaced the head unit with a kenwood 550u and put a new wired remote in also on the driver side. I'm really happy with it. Thanks for your guys help.