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View Full Version : Ballast Upgrade Complete, few issues



JGP54321
05-27-2012, 11:19 PM
The last two days my father and I completed our ballast upgrade. We have a 2007 LSV with the Gravity 1 system and upgraded with 750's in the rear and an IBS up front. We drilled two 3/4" thru hulls (takes more than a few brews to get the guts to actually drill), have 2 Rule 1100 pumps feeding the two rear sacs, and plumbed a 'Y' fitting from the Gravity 1 sac so the stock pump can feed the middle sac and IBS. We have Tsunami 800's draining the two rear sacs and the IBS. With multiple trips to Lowes and spending what seemed like an eternity figuring out where to put the thru hull fittings for the pumps, we finally got it done. Unfortunately, like every project, there have been a few issues...

First, we put it in the water (no leaks thank god), hit the fill button, and everything worked great. Hit the drain button, and not so well. The drain pumps for the two rear sacs wouldn't prime. They would turn on, but would not run any water until we actually sucked through the drain holes to get them to prime. Since that inital draining issue it has been hit or miss, sometimes it primes and sometimes not. Has anyone had an issue with this or know a fix?

Also, with the 'Y' fitting feeding the middle sac and IBS, it's not getting much water at all to the IBS. The middle sac fills completely and actually starts draining through the drain pump before the IBS is actually filled. Has anyone tried this type of setup and dealt with the same issue?

We've also noticed that the rear sac's tend to lose water while we're wakeboarding/surfing. Not noticing any leaks, we figured this was due to the back pressure created by the water moving under the boat and think if we intstall one way valves on the fill lines that should prevent that issue.

Other than those three main things the set up rocks and I have to thank everyone here for the help. Went surfing today and have NEVER been able to ride as far back as we did today. Also filled up the rear sac's all the way and went boarding and the wake was huge. Couldn't be more happy. Would love to post pictures but we forgot to charge the camera before we came up to the lake, my apologies.

jmvotto
05-28-2012, 08:58 AM
Pics would certainly help. I did this upgrade last year except I plumbed the bow sac and center sac individually.

1. Drain pumps, could be air lock, could be kink in the hose, make sure the 800 are wired properly, they will run wired backwards and thus drain slowly but won't help the priming process.

2. The y to the ibs and center, there is a bi direction y valve or fill the ibs first then flow the water down into the center, depends if you have independent drains.

3 loss of water in rears is probably pushing through the drain lines or the vent lines if you have them.

moombadaze
05-28-2012, 09:22 AM
As for the rear emptys, make sure the pumps are low in the boat. next make sure the output hose on the empty pump is faceing up, let the fill pump run till you have a good steady stream of water comeing out the empty thruhull (assuming its on the side like the factory) as this will prime the pump to make sure there is no air in the pump motor.

I ran into the same issue of the bag emptying while underway-problem solved with a oneway valve on the fill line-I put mine about 12" away from the bag

JGP54321
05-29-2012, 12:24 AM
We checked the wiring and chased the tubes, no kinks and wired correctly. The pumps are low in the rear of the boat, just inside the divider on the engine side to keep them out of sight. We have the bags vented to each drain line and the rears drain to opposite sides of the boat. The IBS has two drains on either side and everything has its own thru hull.

Daze, right now we have a 90 degree elbow on the drain pump output and input, we'll try a straight and see how it goes. I assume we can just turn the pump 90 degrees and not have to add more tube but we'll see.

Votto, I've seen the directional Y on wakemakers. Where did you install it?

We also noticed when we tried to put the floor back on that the gas tank had shifted back and now there is a gap where the front panel meets the front of the boat. We dropped it in the water without the floor when we tested it and think thats what did it. Dang thing is so heavy we cant get it back.

jmvotto
05-29-2012, 10:36 AM
I did not do the direction y i added a fourth port to the manifold seperately for the ibs plus a seperate switch.
couple people like lsvboombox has used this with success.

i had the rear rule pumps mounted upside down in therear of the engine comparment as clos to the drain point as possible. too bad all my ballst gi to gii pics are all gone when the server was re-indexed a while back... dang it.

wolfeman131
05-29-2012, 10:50 AM
did you put in the directional Y valve, like this:

http://www.wakemakers.com/bosworth-y-valve.html

or just a Y fitting, like this:

http://www.wakemakers.com/hose-barb-wye.html

JGP54321
05-29-2012, 11:22 PM
I used the Y fitting, about a foot and a half from the middle sac. I am considering putting a switch valve on the middle sac line so I can turn it off once it's full.

wolfeman131
05-30-2012, 12:30 AM
Ok, that's what I guessed. Check in with Spencer at wakemakers, but I think you're asking a lot of your pumps with just the Y fitting. I think you will get better results with the Y valve so you can dedicate flow to the IBS then to the center bag.

I am going to try and mount the valve under the rear bench seat by the transmission. There are some pics of this install location on wakemakers site.

mnpracing
06-12-2012, 06:54 PM
JGP - where did you end up drilling for the thru-hulls for your fill pumps? Would you be able to post some pictures of this? How many did you drill?

JGP54321
06-12-2012, 09:21 PM
We drilled them both on the opposite side of the stock ballast pump. Going back up to our place this weekend and will take pictures to share.

mnpracing
06-12-2012, 11:45 PM
We drilled them both on the opposite side of the stock ballast pump. Going back up to our place this weekend and will take pictures to share.

That would be great, thanks so much. I'd like to see where you drilled, and how the pumps are mounted. Getting ready to do the same and just want to get ideas on where to put them.

bergermaister
06-13-2012, 04:39 PM
JGP - did you get your drain pumps priming and working consistently yet? I had similar issues with hit-and-miss performance. The angle of the outlet on the drain pump plays a big part in it not airlocking and allowing it to prime correctly.

mnpracing
06-13-2012, 04:49 PM
JGP - did you get your drain pumps priming and working consistently yet? I had similar issues with hit-and-miss performance. The angle of the outlet on the drain pump plays a big part in it not airlocking and allowing it to prime correctly.

Berg, are yours draining consistently now? Did the outlet angle solve the issues you were having?

bergermaister
06-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Pretty solid now - say 90% of the time. I first had them installed like this below. Basically the opposite of how you want them so taking the advice of Wakemakers I rolled them 180 so the pump outlet is on top and they work good now.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1070275.jpg

My only challenge in getting them to work 100% of the time is that the bags are too big for my compartments (still haven't ordered the custom ones yet) and they will bunch up and cause problems on occasion.

JGP54321
06-13-2012, 08:18 PM
No not consistently. Right now the fool proof way to drain is fill them all the way up until it flows out the vent and flip it on. I plan to change the angles of the drain pumps this weekend and see how that goes. Did you keep the 90 degree elbow on the drain pump outlet when you turned it upward? Also, do you think pump proximity to the bag has anything to do with it? We were thinking of putting the drain pumps right next to the bag.

bergermaister
06-13-2012, 10:14 PM
Yes - kept the 90 fitting on it. On my fill pumps I am using straight fittings to save space. Just having that outlet on the top so the air gets pushed out is the trick. I have been told having the pump the closer the to bag the better. In my setup I have a few inches of hose in there and it works for me.

mnpracing
06-13-2012, 11:35 PM
No not consistently. Right now the fool proof way to drain is fill them all the way up until it flows out the vent and flip it on. I plan to change the angles of the drain pumps this weekend and see how that goes. Did you keep the 90 degree elbow on the drain pump outlet when you turned it upward? Also, do you think pump proximity to the bag has anything to do with it? We were thinking of putting the drain pumps right next to the bag.

For what it's worth, I use Rule 1100's as my drain pumps on my rear bags (1100 lb'ers) and I just have the pump laying in the rear of the locker, with just enough hose on it to fit the fly-high quick connect to the drain port of the bag. Since I did that, there's never been a time when they didn't start draining as soon as I hit the switch.

JGP54321
06-25-2012, 11:07 AM
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Here are some pictures of the two pumps we added. The thru holes are on either side of the paddle wheel and the one closest to the bow is beside the depth finder (I think that's what that is).

I moved the drain pumps in the rear so that the outlet of the pump is facing upwards. Haven't had a chance to test it on the water yet unfortunately.

mnpracing
07-09-2012, 07:19 PM
When installing new intake thru-hulls, do you need to smooth (i.e. sand) the inside of the hull where the nut will make contact? The inside of the bilge has a black somewhat rough coating on it.

JGP54321
07-09-2012, 07:28 PM
We did not do any sanding. Just made sure to use plenty of sealant and made sure they were tight. Have it on the water 3-4 weekends now with no problems.

spyder
07-26-2012, 12:03 AM
We also noticed when we tried to put the floor back on that the gas tank had shifted back and now there is a gap where the front panel meets the front of the boat. We dropped it in the water without the floor when we tested it and think thats what did it. Dang thing is so heavy we cant get it back.

my boat has been like this since i got it second hand. we're you ever able to correct this? it drives me nuts looking at it.

spyder
07-28-2012, 01:28 PM
http://imgur.com/Az2gb.jpg

Here's the gap in my floor

spyder
07-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Sorry if these pics are huge..
http://imgur.com/avkhF.jpg

spyder
08-02-2012, 12:45 AM
sorry to bump this on someone elses thread.. any ideas how to realign this?

mnpracing
08-02-2012, 10:34 AM
sorry to bump this on someone elses thread.. any ideas how to realign this?

Spyder, are you able to still fit both sections of floor? I was looking at mine and was trying to figure out how both would fit back in if there was a gap, as mine fit in the total space pretty tightly. I'm sure you've thought of this, but is the tank moveable when it's empty? I'm guessing it would still be awkward, but at least movable.

spyder
08-02-2012, 10:40 AM
Spyder, are you able to still fit both sections of floor? I was looking at mine and was trying to figure out how both would fit back in if there was a gap, as mine fit in the total space pretty tightly. I'm sure you've thought of this, but is the tank moveable when it's empty? I'm guessing it would still be awkward, but at least movable.

they both fit in, it's the ridge in the top of the gas tank that I believe holds the floor in place has shift back about an inch.. so i guess the whole tank shifted back that far.. i wasn't able to move the tank at halfful obviously.. it's at an 1/8th full now, maybe i can give it another try at moving it... just not sure if it's somehow bolted down or what holds it in place..


has anyone ever removed the gas tank? what holds it in place?

mnpracing
08-02-2012, 10:58 AM
When you try to move it again, maybe disconnect teh filler and vent hoses, as they may be pulling the tank to the rear.

spyder
08-02-2012, 11:01 AM
When you try to move it again, maybe disconnect teh filler and vent hoses, as they may be pulling the tank to the rear.

the thing weighed a metric shit ton when i tried to move it last time.. hopefully it's better after doing some surfing and burning Dinosaur Poop.