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WaterBullDawg1980
06-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Below is my mix of amps and a few random subs that I have somehow come across over the years. Now the question is what to do with them all. This is where I am going to need you fine gentlemen!
The tower is all set up. I am fine there.

My main question is what to do with the in cabin setup and sub set up. I am not crystal clear on ohms etc and am probably a bit timid on screwing anything up. I am assuming I will use the Kicker for my in cabins, but how do I wire that as it is only a 4 channel? Should I even use this Fosgate sub? Friend said it was a really good one. This is the one sub that doesnít have a box. Type Rís are both in sealed inclosures. What type of box would I need for this bad boy? I say bad boy, bc it is HUGE in comparison to my Type R. Should I just keep the Type Rs? (My brother really wants the Rockford Fosgate)
Should I just unload some of this stuff and upgrade some equipment? My listening patterns honestly EVERYTHING except electronic. Lots of rock.

Subs:
1 Rockford Fosgate T1D412 (Guy at work gave it to me to settle a bet, have no idea what to do with it)
2 Alpine Type-R 10s SWR-1042D
Amps:
Kicker ZX 650.4
MTX Audio MXA400.2
Exile Harpoon
Exile Shift s500.1
In cabin:
6 Polk Audio db651s
Tower:
4 Exile SXT65Qís

jmvotto
06-05-2012, 11:18 PM
Run the 6 polks off the kicker 650.4 keep the gains low due to the over power of the amp to the speakers 120 vs 65 w

Run the bows off 1 and 2 and the cabins off 3 and 4 in parallel
Install the alpine type r off he exile sub amp.

Good to go, sell the other stuff. Buy an exile zld ....

bzubke1
06-05-2012, 11:18 PM
here's my suggestions

Cabin: power with the zx650.4

Sub: The exile amp seems to match up perfectly with one of the alpine subs if the specs I found are correct.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4045_Alpine-SWR-1042D.html

WaterBullDawg1980
06-06-2012, 12:20 AM
So you think I should just toss the Fosgate and use just one of the Type Rs? (Remember I have two of them)

MLA
06-06-2012, 01:46 AM
Tower: SXT65Q and Harpoon

In-boat: 6 Polk with the Kicker ZX650.4

Sub: The Rockford Fosgate T1D412 will be a 2 ohm sub when wired in parallel, so it will not work bridged on the MTX 2 chnl and the S400.1 will deliver about half of what the subs RMS is. Cant really make a recommendation on an amp for the Alpines without knowing thier coil configurations. Power handling wise, you will need about the same power to drive a pair as you will need to drive the single R/F 12. Surface area typically rules with subs, but in this case, I would lean towards the single 12 over a pair of 10's, unless you can get them together side by side in an appropriate sized enclosure. Since you will need to pick up an amp in order to drive either the single 12 or the dual 10's, i would let the install location and available space influence the sub choice.

jmvotto
06-06-2012, 10:51 AM
So you think I should just toss the Fosgate and use just one of the Type Rs? (Remember I have two of them)

does not sound like your a big bass head, so the 10 fits well in that hull design. the 12 gets tight plus you will need another amp. sel the RF , the mtx and the othe apline sub and get a tower controller or gas money....:)

kaneboats
06-06-2012, 10:55 AM
Yup, definitely think about getting some kind of controller. Makes life much easier.

KG's Supra24
06-06-2012, 10:56 AM
Agreed on the kicker for in boats.

If you got it, you might as well run the 12", imo. There is a chance you would be let down with a single 10, especially knowing you had other options.

E4NASH
06-06-2012, 01:01 PM
Agreed on the kicker for in boats.

If you got it, you might as well run the 12", imo. There is a chance you would be let down with a single 10, especially knowing you had other options.

Agreed...I had a 12 in my last boat and a 10 in this new boat. Same brand and model and same amp powering it and it's a big difference between the two in my opinion. 12 all the way.


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WaterBullDawg1980
06-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Looks like I may look for another amp for this 12. I need to do a little more research on the size of box this thing will need first. If I have the space then Ill probably go with using it. He one drawback is that it sounds like this RF is an absolute monster and will require a ton of power. Depending on the investment for the right amp I may just keep the Alpine.

Still thinking about it.

Sent from my bag phone using Tapatalk Dos

WaterBullDawg1980
06-06-2012, 02:57 PM
MLA- I don't think I have a space for two 10s side by side. At least not one that I am willing to give up. I will end up with either the one Alpine 10 or spending maybe just a little more and getting an amp that will properly power the RF.

Sent from my bag phone using Tapatalk Dos

KG's Supra24
06-06-2012, 03:22 PM
You are going to have to buy a sub amp either way, right? What would you use to push the Type R?

I didn't dig deep but at a quick glance it looks like the Alpines want 500 (each) watts and the Rockford wants 800 ... none of the amps have that kind of push.

But you are probably correct, going to be cheaper to power a single 10". I have a 12" Type R for whatever that is worth.

WaterBullDawg1980
06-06-2012, 04:40 PM
Well my initial thoughts were to use the Exile for just the 10, but would that be underpowered? I looks like the Exile amp is rated as follows
Specifications:
Max Power
500W x 1 @ 4 ohm
1000W x 1 @ 2 ohm

RMS Power
250W x 1 @ 4 ohm
500W x 1 @ 2 ohm

I guess my first step would be to understand the ohm handling capability of the Alpine. From what MLA was saying I will definitely need another amp if I plan to keep the RF12. You guys should see this speaker. It is massive.

Probably a dumb question, but how will I end up wiring the final 2 Polks to the Kicker amp since it is just a 4 channel? Can I run 4 off the amp and then two off the HU? Seems like the 4 would drown out the two. Not ideal. Or maybe run them in parallel? I think the Polks are 4 ohms so wouldn't that make them go into 2 ohm which they are not classified for?

WaterBullDawg1980
06-06-2012, 04:40 PM
does not sound like your a big bass head, so the 10 fits well in that hull design. the 12 gets tight plus you will need another amp. sel the RF , the mtx and the othe apline sub and get a tower controller or gas money....:)

JV, I could use the gas money. Gas is killing us this year!

KG's Supra24
06-06-2012, 04:58 PM
the exile amp names and actual ratings can be misleading .. Yes, it would be way underpowered.

The cockpit speakers would be wired in parallel, 2 speakers on a channel. Each bow speaker would have its own channel.



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MLA
06-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Well my initial thoughts were to use the Exile for just the 10, but would that be underpowered? I looks like the Exile amp is rated as follows
Specifications:
Max Power
500W x 1 @ 4 ohm
1000W x 1 @ 2 ohm

RMS Power
250W x 1 @ 4 ohm
500W x 1 @ 2 ohm

I guess my first step would be to understand the ohm handling capability of the Alpine. From what MLA was saying I will definitely need another amp if I plan to keep the RF12. You guys should see this speaker. It is massive.

Probably a dumb question, but how will I end up wiring the final 2 Polks to the Kicker amp since it is just a 4 channel? Can I run 4 off the amp and then two off the HU? Seems like the 4 would drown out the two. Not ideal. Or maybe run them in parallel? I think the Polks are 4 ohms so wouldn't that make them go into 2 ohm which they are not classified for?

Speakers dont Ohms from they are the Ohms (impedance) load that the amp "sees". The speakers receive wattage from the amp. This wattage is based on the speaker's internal impedance, or Ohms. So, a single 4 ohm speaker wired to the amp chnl will receive the watts RMS output of that amp at that 4 ohm load. Two 4 ohm speakers wired parallel (+ to +/- to -) on an amp chnl equals 2 ohm. So the amp total RMS output will be its rated wattage at 2 ohm. The two speakers, if identical, will thus divide this output.

Are the Alpine 10's dual or single voice coils? If single, what impedance is it? If dual, whats the impedance of each coil? This info will be on a sticker on the magnet. It is needed in order to match the sub(s) to the amp that will best match the recommended power. This is important to 1) get the best performance out of the gear and 2) not damage any gear.

You will need a new for either the R/F 12 or if you intend to drive both Alpine 10's. IF the alpines are dual 4 ohm, then the Exile will be perfect to power one, but not both. If the Alpines are single 4 ohm, the Exile will be a little light on the power IMO. So, more info is needed.

WaterBullDawg1980
06-06-2012, 06:41 PM
MLA-Looks like I have the dual voice coil 10s at 4 Ohms.

For the Polks in cabin..... If they are 4 Ohm speakers, then the amp will see them at 4 ohms which for the Kicker is fine. If I run the 2 of the cockpit speakers in parallel then my amp would see a 2 Ohm load. Is this correct? So how would the wattage be split up between the six?

Kicker amp specs.
4 ohms: 120 watts x 4 chan. | 2 ohms: 160 watts x 4 chan. | Bridged, 4 ohms: 320 watts x 2 chan.

MLA
06-06-2012, 07:37 PM
MLA-Looks like I have the dual voice coil 10s at 4 Ohms.

For the Polks in cabin..... If they are 4 Ohm speakers, then the amp will see them at 4 ohms which for the Kicker is fine. If I run the 2 of the cockpit speakers in parallel then my amp would see a 2 Ohm load. Is this correct? So how would the wattage be split up between the six?

Kicker amp specs.
4 ohms: 120 watts x 4 chan. | 2 ohms: 160 watts x 4 chan. | Bridged, 4 ohms: 320 watts x 2 chan.

Thats what I thought, just wanted to make sure. If you wire a single Type-R in parallel, you will net a 2 ohm load. This will get you 500W rms from the exile. This should be spot on for the Alpine. With this sub radiating directly out into the main area with 500W will be a very respectable setup. If you wanted to down the road, add another 500W amp (or swap the 500W exile for a 1000W @ 1 or 4 ohm) and add the 2nd Alpine. Although it would be in a locker, it will be a boat shaker and the primary sub will contribute the most musically.

The bow pair will each be on their own chnl (1 and 2), so each will receive the 120W @ 4 ohm. The port side main cabin pair will be wired in parallel on chnl 3 and will divide the 160W @ 2 ohm power, so each speaker receives 80W. Same for the starboard main cabin pair wired on chnl 4. Once both halves of the amp are setup correctly, you can then reduce the gain on the bow pair to balance them with the main cabin if needed.

Brianinpdx
06-06-2012, 09:06 PM
I always enjoy threads like this.... fun to see whats up in the real world.

here's what I'd do:

Tower - seems like a slam dunk. SXT's off the harpoon will jam.
Cabin - seems like a slam dunk too. Polks off the kicker will rock.

Sub I think you got a couple of choices.

1) Do a sealed enclosure for the 2 10's and run them off the exile amp and mtx amp. 1 amp per sub. Is it ideal power? no not really but who cares, your amps are free. You could always come back later and properly power the 1ohm load with another amp. but thats on the spend money plan.

2) run 1 10 as MLA discussed off the exile 500.1. KG how is the model# confusing? (shakes head). 500W buddy. Full power at 2 ohms. 500W. Maybe I missed something there, but its pretty straight forward.

3) Run the RF 12" sub off the Exile 500W. The RF sub is 800W and 2ohm configured. The Exile amp is 500W@2ohm. seems like a pretty good fit. Underpowered? sure a bit. within the range? absolutely.

In my opinion #3 would be best. I'm always an advocate for putting a 12 in the boat.

cheers!

-Brian
Exile Audio



Subs:
1 Rockford Fosgate T1D412 (Guy at work gave it to me to settle a bet, have no idea what to do with it)
2 Alpine Type-R 10s SWR-1042D
Amps:
Kicker ZX 650.4
MTX Audio MXA400.2
Exile Harpoon
Exile Shift s500.1
In cabin:
6 Polk Audio db651s
Tower:
4 Exile SXT65Q’s

MLA
06-06-2012, 09:31 PM
Do a sealed enclosure for the 2 10's and run them off the exile amp and mtx amp. 1 amp per sub. Is it ideal power? no not really but who cares, your amps are free

The Alpines are 4 ohm DVC and unfortunitley, the MTX 4002 2 chnl will not be stable with a 2 ohm load bridged. This leaves you with either one coil per chnl or bridging an 8 ohm load for a 200W rms output. It doesnt make me warm and fuzzy to have a 200W sub sharing an enclosure with a 500W sub. Im not sure it would be worth the effort and expense of materials to build a dual sub box and wire in both amps. I also think tuning would be a bear. Nowing that the gains and frequency dials would not be the same, it would be tought to get these two sync'd up using two different amps, even if they both where receiving the same power. Just my $.02.

KG's Supra24
06-07-2012, 11:29 AM
KG how is the model# confusing? (shakes head). 500W buddy. Full power at 2 ohms. 500W. Maybe I missed something there, but its pretty straight forward.


Perhaps in this case straight forward is relative. I've replaced enough equipment to know where I want to be in the quality spectrum so when I search/spec amps my search is narrow ... jl, exile, wetsounds, alpine is about it. A quick scroll through sonix electronic, though, showed me many other brands name their amps in a similar manner to Exile.

In this scenario, an Exile 500.1 I would think is going to give me 500 watts to 1 channel (without consideration of ohm load), just the same as the JL 500/1 and the Alpine I have in my boat do. You don't have to "ohm down" to get the numer in the name of the amp.

Outside of this scenario, where it came to my attention, was when I was looking at tower speakers. Harpoon (1000.2) to 4 xm9's is 1000 watts (250x4). Let's step it up and "go big" with dual amps ... 2 Harpoons to 4 xm9's, that gives me 1200 watts (300x2 x 2 amps). The math was frustrating, I got 200 more watts coming from the tower for a perceived 1,000 watt amp added.

What I did not realize prior to my google search is others rate the same way (so my statement goes across most brands, it can be confusing when looking at amp specs, not just exile specs). I did, however, know that real cheap amps will name/rate at max power opposed to continuous power, just didn't realize there was another tier so to speak where amps are named at lowest ohm load opposed to "expected" ohm load or regardless of ohm load.

In summary, if I was quickly comparing amps I would be mislead thinking the 500.1 would give me 500 watts. That is due to what I'd compare it to.

Brianinpdx
06-07-2012, 03:14 PM
KG - No problem. After 25 years or so in the biz, I've seen every model# known to man. usually it all relates back to power at some point. but 2 ohm, 4 ohm 1.5 ohm para / series - holy hell! Ya it can get confusing.

-Brian

WaterBullDawg1980
06-07-2012, 03:18 PM
Thats what I thought, just wanted to make sure. If you wire a single Type-R in parallel, you will net a 2 ohm load. This will get you 500W rms from the exile. This should be spot on for the Alpine. With this sub radiating directly out into the main area with 500W will be a very respectable setup. If you wanted to down the road, add another 500W amp (or swap the 500W exile for a 1000W @ 1 or 4 ohm) and add the 2nd Alpine. Although it would be in a locker, it will be a boat shaker and the primary sub will contribute the most musically.

The bow pair will each be on their own chnl (1 and 2), so each will receive the 120W @ 4 ohm. The port side main cabin pair will be wired in parallel on chnl 3 and will divide the 160W @ 2 ohm power, so each speaker receives 80W. Same for the starboard main cabin pair wired on chnl 4. Once both halves of the amp are setup correctly, you can then reduce the gain on the bow pair to balance them with the main cabin if needed.

May just hold onto the 12 then until I sell a few items to get an amp more suitable for its power requirements. Why in the world does that one require so much power anyway??

Thanks MLA. Love your insight on here!

WaterBullDawg1980
06-07-2012, 03:21 PM
I always enjoy threads like this.... fun to see whats up in the real world.

here's what I'd do:

Tower - seems like a slam dunk. SXT's off the harpoon will jam.
Cabin - seems like a slam dunk too. Polks off the kicker will rock.

Sub I think you got a couple of choices.

1) Do a sealed enclosure for the 2 10's and run them off the exile amp and mtx amp. 1 amp per sub. Is it ideal power? no not really but who cares, your amps are free. You could always come back later and properly power the 1ohm load with another amp. but thats on the spend money plan.

2) run 1 10 as MLA discussed off the exile 500.1. KG how is the model# confusing? (shakes head). 500W buddy. Full power at 2 ohms. 500W. Maybe I missed something there, but its pretty straight forward.

3) Run the RF 12" sub off the Exile 500W. The RF sub is 800W and 2ohm configured. The Exile amp is 500W@2ohm. seems like a pretty good fit. Underpowered? sure a bit. within the range? absolutely.

In my opinion #3 would be best. I'm always an advocate for putting a 12 in the boat.

I really like the idea of having a 12 as well, but from everything I read that sucker takes some power to run right! Not sure if RF is known for that, but it seems higher than other 12s I looked at.
Thanks for your insight as well Brian....

While I am at it, thank all of you in this thread!

bzubke1
06-07-2012, 04:21 PM
Mono subwoofer amps tend to be the cheapest for their power ratings, i would be willing to bet you could find something between 800-1000 watts to power the RF 12 for around $200. Just make sure it is CEA-2006 compliant so you are gettin the power that is advertised.

jmvotto
06-07-2012, 04:58 PM
Mark,

My concern for you on the RF is the size of the box you will have to construct ( huge) with the limited space of your hull.
I have and exile 12 require 600w rms and 1200 peak with 420 watts ( underpowered but sounds greats)

since you have the exile 500 and a boxed up alpine R why not try it and see what you have and how it sounds. instead of building a custom box and a new amp.

my .02

MLA
06-07-2012, 06:29 PM
May just hold onto the 12 then until I sell a few items to get an amp more suitable for its power requirements. Why in the world does that one require so much power anyway??

Thanks MLA. Love your insight on here!

That sub has a huge motor and a lot of excursion. Its gonna take a lot of power to drive it effectively and control its movement. You could drive it with less power, but nearly to its potential. If you think this sub is a keeper and a proper amp is in the future, then I would consider going with it powered by the Exile 500.1 for now and plan for the amp upgrade later. unloading the MTX and the 2 Alpines would take a chunk out of the cost of the more powerful amp.

loudsubz
06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
In our 2010 LSV I took out the stock kicker in the foot area, made a false plate to go over it as I like to stretch my legs out while driving and putting another sub in that area was not an option.

Last year I bought 2 low end JL 10WX on sale for cheap, built a small sealed box and stuffed it under the seat behind the drivers seat. It worked ok but lost alot of output because there was no way to get the sound out.

This year I decided to chop the box in half and stuff it in front of the OEM sub location, firing under the front seat. I was only using 1 10 and the way the sub was positioned gave it a nice loading effect and I was really surprised by the output. Easily louder than the OEM Kicker 12 and way more than the 2 10's under the rear seat.