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View Full Version : Reversible Pumps and check valves?



EricU
11-18-2012, 04:59 PM
Are the reversible pumps strong enough to dump over the side of the boat like the Aerators do if I add two check valves as shown below?

Seems like they should as it is not that much head pressure

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/EricUht/Moomba/RevPumpR1.jpg

MLA
11-18-2012, 05:28 PM
Yes. Although a check-valve in the vent line is not needed, one will help to achieve a more complete drain.

kevkev
11-18-2012, 05:52 PM
If you plumb the check valves in backwards as shown, then yes the reversible pumps are not strong enough to overcome a blocked orfice.

jmvotto
11-18-2012, 09:48 PM
Why do you want the reversible pump to dump over the side?

You will need another check valve on the thru hull vent to suck the bag flat.

EricU
11-18-2012, 11:33 PM
Why do you want the reversible pump to dump over the side?

I am just old and like to see the water shooting out the side. Seriously, no real reason other than that.

Back in the day after outgrowing flat bottom V-drives, we ran jet drives (those didn't have props for you youngsters!) with Jet-o-vators which shot up a "rooster tail" just because it looked effing cool!



You will need another check valve on the thru hull vent to suck the bag flat.

Why?



If you plumb the check valves in backwards as shown, then yes the reversible pumps are not strong enough to overcome a blocked orfice.

Not sure what you mean by "backwards", the diagram shows the direction of flow. Out the dump and in from the under-boat intake.


Eric.

wolfeman131
11-18-2012, 11:55 PM
Many of us have found that a check valve on the vent helps to eliminate air ring pulled in and allows the bag to drain completely flat and "raisin."

I'd keep it simple and use the bottom thru hull for fill & empty. Saves a little $$ on valves, hose and clamps, too.


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mmandley
11-19-2012, 05:53 AM
Are the reversible pumps strong enough to dump over the side of the boat like the Aerators do if I add two check valves as shown below?

Seems like they should as it is not that much head pressure

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/EricUht/Moomba/RevPumpR1.jpg

I for one like your idea and see the benefits of what your trying to do.
I for one am no longer one of the young guys, i think im just one of The guys now, i will enter the Old guy thing a bit later, i am on my last year of 30 somthing LOL.

I like your idea in the fact i can appriciate you wanting to see the water draining. I for one wouldnt mind seeing it drain because at least you know when its done without watching the bag. When the water stops shooting out then its drained LOL.

Nothing wrong with what you have as your idea.

Is it the most common? No
Will it work Yes
Is it the mose Efficient? No
This is more because i agree with others, you need a 1 way check valve on the Vent line. I ran my reversables all summer last year and while yes they do drain pretty well with no check valve in the Vent, they drained a LOT better with a Check Valve in the vent.
Also with a check valve in the Fill side you will limit the pump to how much water the check valve can pass threw.
Also you have to be EXTREAMLY carefull to make sure you dont turn the Pump on for Drain with your Y valve in the FILL position or you will damage the pump, or blow a hose.

From the factory the bags dont come with Vents. The pump kicks on and drains the bag and creats a Vacuume and the bag drains flat.

Most started adding Vents with the Areator pumps because you have Air in the line when you trailer the boat and the ballast line drains. Then when you fill the bag this air is pumped into the bag and you get less water weight. The vent solved that issue. In solving one issue though Murpheys Law kicked up another and that was Air in the bag when draining it by sucking it in threw the vent line.

kevkev
11-19-2012, 07:58 AM
Not sure what you mean by "backwards", the diagram shows the direction of flow. Out the dump and in from the under-boat intake.

I see that, the direction of the check valves is backwards. As shown it will suck through the vent and then out the bottom. The check valves flipped 180 will be up through the hull and out the vent. I'm sure you would have hooked it up properly, I was just letting you know it was drawn in reverse order.

moombadaze
11-19-2012, 08:30 AM
nothing wrong with what I see, I have allways enjoyed seeing the ballast dumping out the sides

add a check valve to the vent and the bags will get dang near completly empty--raisined is a great term-they will look vacum packed

EricU
11-19-2012, 08:34 AM
...Is it the mose Efficient? No
This is more because i agree with others, you need a 1 way check valve on the Vent line. I ran my reversables all summer last year and while yes they do drain pretty well with no check valve in the Vent, they drained a LOT better with a Check Valve in the vent.

I will add a check valve to the vent line and reverse my check valve symbols as I have them drawn 180 out





Also with a check valve in the Fill side you will limit the pump to how much water the check valve can pass threw.

This is my main concern





Also you have to be EXTREAMLY carefull to make sure you dont turn the Pump on for Drain with your Y valve in the FILL position or you will damage the pump, or blow a hose.

That isn't a valve, just a simple wye fitting


Just hoping the idea works and I will fix the schematic --- Eric

jmvotto
11-19-2012, 08:50 AM
Eric, you drawing will work fine. What year and model do you have? Do you have the timers or is this a mod on an older model.

lsvboombox
11-19-2012, 08:54 AM
Its very easy to hear by the tone of the pumps whether they are pumping water or not. I think it would look cool to look like a fire boat while draining but you can easily tell by the whining of the pump thats its done pumping or its not pumping for some reason. A lower tone lets you know water is flowing

EricU
11-19-2012, 12:38 PM
It's old like me, an '02 LSV -- picked it up earlier this year real cheap as a "hold over" til I found another Natique or X-Star -- but fell in love with the way it rides and have been fixing some of the little things, new stereo, adding Perfect Pass, second battery with a charging system, new bimini, tower lights...

Here's the revised drawing;

added a third check valve at the vent
fixed the direction of my check valve symbols as I had them backwards earlier


http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/EricUht/Moomba/RevPumpR2.jpg


Eric

parrothd
11-20-2012, 04:48 PM
Why do you need Check valve #1? Or even the ballast dump?!?

parrothd
11-20-2012, 04:50 PM
Nevermind, you want to be able to see/hear the water to know when to shut off...

jasonwm
02-15-2013, 01:03 PM
A lot of our customers elect to install reversible pump systems as you've outlined, to provide visual and audible indications when the system is draining. You can save a little bit of money by using 3/4" components for the vent connection, although then your drain and vent thru-hulls will be different sizes (unless you use a common size fitting).

We have diagrams for this system and other popular layouts in our resources section.

EricU
02-15-2013, 01:41 PM
A lot of our customers elect to install reversible pump systems as you've outlined, to provide visual and audible indications when the system is draining....

I hope so!! I bought all that stuff from you guys (Great Service by the way!) and I am going to start the install next week.

Already carved up the area behind the throttle lever to install the new pump switches so I can get to them! I will post some pics later.

Eric.

jasonwm
02-18-2013, 11:45 AM
Can't wait to see pics of the install!

EricU
02-18-2013, 12:44 PM
Not much to look at yet;

Before the switches were in a horrible location, never did get used to them, never could remember which was what and what was on or off as I couldn't see them.

16904


This is where the new ballast switches are including a new switch for the third X-Over reversible pump between the back two bags. Got two more future switch spaces, probably going to add some docking lights (http://www.marineengine.com/products/accessory.php?in=2122320) on one of them.

16903


Eric.

parrothd
02-18-2013, 01:49 PM
Where did you get the plate and switches from?

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EricU
02-18-2013, 03:56 PM
Where did you get the plate and switches from?

The plate is just fabbed from black sheet plastic, I will make another one to block off where the existing switches are. I also relocated the ignition switch to a piece of black plastic when I did my stereo install.
16913

The switches are from the good folks up in Oregon at WakeMakers (http://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard-ballast-parts/marine-electronics) give them a call.

I am also going to have the guys at OTRATTW (http://www.otrattw.com/) (I LOVE that name!) make some new covers for my existing switches on the dash.

bergermaister
02-18-2013, 04:26 PM
I am also going to have the guys at OTRATTW (http://www.otrattw.com/) (I LOVE that name!) make some new covers for my existing switches on the dash.

That I am looking forward to seeing since I have the exact same switches.

Speaking of that, better watch your elbow on the new plate you made above the throttle. You may get some of the "what's wrong with the wake" or "how come the boat's leaning" when they get bumped accidentally!

EricU
02-18-2013, 10:37 PM
...Speaking of that, better watch your elbow on the new plate you made above the throttle...when they get bumped accidentally!

That is definitely a possibility, but at least I would then have an excuse for any less than stellar boarding, though during this off season, I bought a new '12 model board and the salesman (some kid with a flat brim hat that could be my son) told me I should be boarding like the pros with it.

And if I do hit the switches errantly, at least now I will be able to see them and know which one is what! I have a theory that the guy at Moomba who designed the stock ballast switch location was some old skier who didn't board and hates how we look jumping wakes with loud stereos!! Jealousy is such an ugly emotion…