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View Full Version : Big Idea, need a little help though



chadjitsu1
01-28-2013, 04:18 PM
16756

Ok I have a project going right now to add a touch screen in the LSV. I went to the Atlanta boat show a few weeks ago and saw the XStar ballast control screen. It is very basic but gives you the ability to control exact weight per bag. This can easily be done but I am wanting to get your thoughts on if you think it is better to have the touch screen do the control of the pumps or just have a monitor screen that tells you the weight per bag and still has you flip switches to fill and empty.

I have a little program written already to monitor but wonder if it would be better to control from the screen as well and totally do away with the switches. I can make it so there are preset values per rider and get really crazy with it but I am wondering if its going to be a big waste of my time.

Need a little feedback on this pro's and con's The picture here shows the MC ballast control screen. Let me know what you guys think. Is it important to know what weight you have in the bags or is it a waste of time.

Boonejeepin
01-28-2013, 04:31 PM
That is awesome that you could pull this off. I'll be watching this thread.

mmandley
01-28-2013, 04:38 PM
Chad, thats awesome, i know you gave me a hint to the idea a while back but this is awesome.

Honestly i would go all out on the design and options, espeacially if you want to go the route me and you spoke about.

I would still leave the Switches and the option to use them.

This is what Supra did with the SA. This is why there is sooo many toggle switches, they are the backup to the screen. Also they are there if you have someone new in the boat and doesnt know how to use the screen they can just flip the switch.

moombadaze
01-28-2013, 04:58 PM
go for it, with the full on options

jpetty3023
01-28-2013, 05:01 PM
this might be worth a million bucks. gonna watch this thread closely


sent from my home phone

bergermaister
01-28-2013, 06:06 PM
Very cool idea - as for the actual weight given? I'd say if that is a difficult part to include it would be one of the first I would consider cutting out. Kind of like the "lie-o-meter" in your car telling you the current MPG. Don't really believe it most of the time.

If I've got 1100lb bags and it says, or looks like, they're 98% full, that's good enough for me.

Now can you port it over to be a smartphone app too??? :cool:

chadjitsu1
01-28-2013, 06:11 PM
Percentage full and weight is going to be almost the same exact thing. Its just a different math formula in the controller.


Very cool idea - as for the actual weight given? I'd say if that is a difficult part to include it would be one of the first I would consider cutting out. Kind of like the "lie-o-meter" in your car telling you the current MPG. Don't really believe it most of the time.

If I've got 1100lb bags and it says, or looks like, they're 98% full, that's good enough for me.

Now can you port it over to be a smartphone app too??? :cool:

bergermaister
01-28-2013, 06:29 PM
Gotcha. So do you setup or recalibrate for the different size of bags you are running?

I'm also in the camp of having both touch control and manual switches would be cool. Old school and New school.

And what about that bluetooth enabled smartphone app? :D

chadjitsu1
01-28-2013, 06:35 PM
The one thing that's holding me back a little is the are where I'm going to mount the thing. I dont know exactly where I should put it. I have an option of a 3, 4, or 6 inch screen. If I go with the 3 inch it is a black and white screen and more than likely will just be to monitor whats going on. If I go with the 4 or 6 inch screen then its harder to find a good place for it but I can go with a fully auto ballast system where I can select ski, surf left, surf right, or wakeboard and have it automatically fill to my pre-selected weights. I started on one of the screens on my own mocking what the others have done.

I am having a really hard time posting pictures I cant figure out why I can attach one to this thread. I have a picture of a screen that I already made for the main screen

chadjitsu1
01-28-2013, 06:41 PM
Getting a little crazy with the bluetooth thing, I don't have that level of knowledge. I am also thinking about running both switches and screen BUT the issue of where to put it still remains. I was thinking about putting it in the same spot as the switches. Anyone with any ideas would be awesome.


Gotcha. So do you setup or recalibrate for the different size of bags you are running?

I'm also in the camp of having both touch control and manual switches would be cool. Old school and New school.

And what about that bluetooth enabled smartphone app? :D

Boonejeepin
01-28-2013, 07:01 PM
I was thinking about putting it in the same spot as the switches. Anyone with any ideas would be awesome.

Simple - heads up display reflecting off the windshield. 😄

I can't wait to see what you come up with.

kaneboats
01-29-2013, 10:03 AM
Very cool idea. I say go for broke. I do like the idea of the redundant switches though just in case. You might run a search on the net for "depthfinder mounting locations" or something like that and see where people put them when they add them to the helm. Good luck. Keep us posted.

Ian Brantford
01-29-2013, 12:02 PM
What is the mechanism that Mastercraft uses to judge weight? Is it a flow rate meter, an actual float in the tank, or something else? It it's simply a timer, that's not going to provide an accurate number due to varying flow rates that depend on boat speed.

chadjitsu1
01-29-2013, 07:12 PM
I am not too sure what they are using for calculating the amount of water in the bag. I would think that it would be just a timer. I bought hall affect flow meters but I am thinking about not using them and just going with a timer.

I know that on the hard tanks like in the Nautiques, they have an analog meter like a gas meter in your car that you can look at to see where your at. This is a simple float switch in the tank.

I don't think that a timer will be that inaccurate, the rubber impeller pumps that I'm using are going to kind of meter the eater into the boat. They don't allow water to pass even with another pump pushing against them so I don't see how the fill times would be that far off. I was going to just get the pumps into the boat and take a reading on the GPM then multiply that number by 8.35. To be honest with you if its a little off then its not going to make a lot of difference. I know people are going to be moving around in the boat and switching spots so 50 LB really doesn't matter.

chadjitsu1
02-03-2013, 07:08 PM
Does anyone have a measurement of the key switch area. I am thinking about trying to fit the little touch screen in there now. I will just add a start button to one of the screens and make it password protected. I need to know how wide and tall the area is though. I don't have my boat at the house so maybe someone that has a LSV or XLV and wouldn't mind measuring the size of the panel I would be very grateful

jester
02-04-2013, 06:08 PM
Great Idea. I have been thinking about doing this for some time then giving the ability to also control the wake plate and the PP system from the same screen. What system are you looking at using to hold the logic for this? Also if you are looking to do flow rate you have to take into account if your pumps use the same thru-haul fitting and if more then one pump was on it will affect your rate.

chadjitsu1
02-04-2013, 07:52 PM
I work for Allen Bradley and plan on using a Micro 830 PLC with a either a Panelview Component 3 inch for the display. I really want to use a 6 inch color display but I dont see where I will be able to mount it. I am thinking about just using the 3 inch screen as a display only and still using the switches to control the forward and reverse of the pumps.

I am ripping out the factory pumps like a lot of people have done and replacing them with the Johnson FB4-11 pumps. I will put them in the boat and run a stop watch to see what kind of flow I get then just use that as the multiplier in the program. Should be easy enough. I also thought about adding the wakeplate to the screen, I need to see what the signal looks like coming back from the sensor on the tab, I assume its just like a feedback from the trim on an IO. If anyone knows that would also be helpful. If its a 0-12v feedback then I can just run that into the PLC as well.

kaneboats
02-05-2013, 09:28 AM
Does anyone have a measurement of the key switch area. I am thinking about trying to fit the little touch screen in there now. I will just add a start button to one of the screens and make it password protected. I need to know how wide and tall the area is though. I don't have my boat at the house so maybe someone that has a LSV or XLV and wouldn't mind measuring the size of the panel I would be very grateful

I was able to shoot some pics of my dash on the 2008 LSV this morning. I hope these help. I tried to show the length and width of the insert panel as well as the whole area. I also thought you might be able to relocate the two small gauges above and put it there so I included pics of the higher area as well. Good luck!
16798167991680016801

kaneboats
02-05-2013, 09:46 AM
Here are the ones of the upper dash on that side:

168091681016811

chadjitsu1
02-05-2013, 05:21 PM
Do you have any idea if the 08 and 07 have the same key switch area? I thought that they changed the dash on the 08. Thanks for the pictures I am really hoping that those sizes are the same for mine, the touch screen I have would fit perfectly.

kaneboats
02-05-2013, 05:24 PM
I thought they were the same. The change to the newer hull was in 2006. I didn't think they changed much for a couple of years.

Edit: Look at this page:

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=30440

Or this one:

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/680026.html?1237693061

This one shows it the best, if this is an '07. They are different.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2007-Moomba-Mobius-Lsv-101882519

wolfeman131
02-05-2013, 06:52 PM
Yep, I think the dash was updated in 08 with the white on black gauges which were a different size. Not sure that the key area where you're looking to mount the screen changed, though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

chadjitsu1
02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
Ok i will have to just call the marina and have them put it on a rack for me to get in and look at. Thanks for looking and measuring for me everyone

jester
02-07-2013, 09:56 PM
I work for Allen Bradley That says a lot right there. Think about all the I/O ports you have with the 830. Forget about just controlling the pumps you could control the whole boat plus your friends boat.

Stop watch for the flow is the fastest way to get the flow and saves you a few $$$$ in buying a inline flow meter that plugs into your PLC. I cannot wait to see your install how to.

chadjitsu1
03-31-2013, 04:41 PM
I have decided to get down to business and start programming this ballast control touch screen and controller. I have a few screens developed now, I am planning on bringing the boat home in a few weeks and starting on the install. Sorry the screen shots are a little blurry but you will get the idea. I also made this so that anyone can use it on their boat independent of the types of pumps they have. On the one screen you can see where the user just needs to enter their flow rates (get a gallon jug and fill it up with their pump and add that time into the window)



Check out the screens and tell me what you think. Here is a link

http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/chadjitsu1/media/overview/overview.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

ian ashton
03-31-2013, 05:11 PM
Bringing the image over here;
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/01/jahujuby.jpg

chadjitsu1
03-31-2013, 07:18 PM
The bottom of the moomba board boats screen that says moomba actually is the top of the overview picture with the ballast bags. When I cut and pasted it, i cut it a little too far. Any feedback is welcome on these, thanks.

Also thanks Ian for moving them into this thread. I for some reason cannot attach a picture

theDug
04-08-2013, 04:18 PM
Chad,
Great work so far! I have been working on my own version and just saw this thread. I figured I’d share what I have been working on and later when complete provide a more descriptive write up.
I am currently using:
Arduino for the logic and a 3.2 inch touch screen for the user interface
1 flow meter (for the final system it would require two per bag (1 in and 1out)$15-30 depending on size of pump)
1 Reed Relay
1 Auto Relay (final project 1 each per pump(reed relay converts logic level voltage to 12V)

This past weekend I ran a test with wires everywhere hooked up to my truck battery(12V) and fatsac on the floor of the garage. The flow meter was accurate to less than 5% filling 400lbs. My display currently shows a bar graph that displays % full, with a red level line that can be set. Below the bar graph it displays the total weight of the bag. If you press the top of the bar the level line increases and turns on the fill pump, when the water % on the bar graph reaches the level line the pump shuts off. Pressing the bottom of the bar graph the level line decreases and would turn on the empty pump however I only tested with the fill (and it worked very well). I’m still a ways out but I’ll post a video on here this weekend.

The amount of features would almost be endless but I plan on having a couple different screens:
Main screen:
3 bar graphs with weight of each bag and total weight
Number of passengers
Menu button

Menu Page:
Buttons (manual weight input, max weight, empty, surf Left, surf right, number of passengers, settings, and reset)

Input Page:
Numbers 0-9 and
Enter, delete, cancel

Settings Page:
Boat max weight
Left Bag total weight
Front bag total weight
Right Bag total weight
Avg. passenger weight (ex. 150 lbs)
Auto fill % Rear (ex. 60%, leave 40% for the front)

Welcome any thoughts, comments, or critiques

Dug

jpetty3023
04-08-2013, 04:23 PM
^^pics?^^


sent from my home phone

theDug
04-15-2013, 12:51 AM
Jason, sorry sorta ran out of time this weekend. I linked a youtube video last week, however it was never posted. Here is a pic from the UI that is used to set each bag with the red line. 1716717167

theDug
05-17-2013, 12:24 AM
I finally received the flow meters I have been waiting on. I need a few more parts before I can have this system up and running but just checking in with my progress. I have 4 pics that sort of explain the system again. Basically I am going to cut the hoses from my fat sacs and insert these flow meters. I plan on installing the fill meters right before the water enters the bag, and the empty right before the water leaves the boat. I recently bought the 'U' bad to go under the front seats(sorta the reason why I am a bit behind with this project) Basically once I will be able to control if water goes into the ski locker or not depending on how many people are on the boat. The two bags will be connected with the fill on the 'U' bag and the empty on the ski locker. I took apart the gravity III switch harness and plan on tapping into the +12V and GND from it to power my display and connect the relays. Both my system and the old switches(back-up) will work when complete. Hopefully this weekend will be productive(but I am easily distracted so well see).

theDug
05-17-2013, 12:47 AM
Well apperently I my account can no longer post photos, nothing to exciting other illustration of how the compoents are layed out. I'll try to fix the issue before my final post.

wolfeman131
05-17-2013, 06:50 AM
it's the site, not your account. load the picsw to a hosting site like photobucket and copy/paste the IMG tags.

motosno963
05-17-2013, 07:58 AM
with all these cool updates, it makes me want to upgrade my outback to a xlv or a mojo..if only i had the money haha..heep up the cool work, cant wait to see more haha

E4NASH
05-17-2013, 08:48 AM
So, I have a question, what if you have more than just the standard 3 bags? I have six bags in my boat all hidden and plumbed in. Would the user be able to add multiple bags or is this being designed for just a 3 bag 3 pump system?

Note: Each of my pumps fill 2 bags so in order for this to work perfectly as a six bag display and control each bag, each would have to have it's own pump, switch, flow meters, and relays. this is understood but my question remains is it or could it be developed to be compatible with more than 3 bags?

chadjitsu1
05-20-2013, 08:08 AM
So, I have a question, what if you have more than just the standard 3 bags? I have six bags in my boat all hidden and plumbed in. Would the user be able to add multiple bags or is this being designed for just a 3 bag 3 pump system?

Note: Each of my pumps fill 2 bags so in order for this to work perfectly as a six bag display and control each bag, each would have to have it's own pump, switch, flow meters, and relays. this is understood but my question remains is it or could it be developed to be compatible with more than 3 bags?

This can be made to do what ever you want. I developed the screen for a 4 bag system, only in a monitoring mode this year though. Next year I'm going to make it do the control. I just want to see how much weight I have in each bag so I get a consistent wake every time.

I made it so all you need to do is unhook the bag and time how long it takes to fill up 1 gallon. Once you have all those numbers you can put them into the screen and it will know.

If you wanted more bags in the system you could add them on your own, its a pretty simple software to use. I thought about just making a really simple version that just has a text display without graphics. This would be really small and would fit anywhere.

I guess if you buy a boat with one of these systems installed they are only good for the bags that you have installed from the factory, everything else is on its own anyway.