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Sampp1963
10-20-2013, 09:54 PM
Have anyone head about an upcoming surf system for Moomba boat in 2014??

mgswake
10-20-2013, 10:31 PM
This would be awesome. I wondered why every boat company didn't try to make their own after nautique and Malibu debuted this system. I love Moomba's, and a surf system would seal the deal for me to buy a brand new mojo within the next couple years. But, will Malibu let this happen? There is a long discussion on PN that says Malibu will try to sue and stop nautique from using the NSS. So if that is true, then would Malibu try to stop all companies from using surf systems.

tater
10-21-2013, 02:41 AM
Have anyone head about an upcoming surf system for Moomba boat in 2014??

My dealer told me that they will releasing the surf system for 2014 SC and SA at about the time of the boat shows this winter if you look close at the 2014 SC and SC there is place for the switch just below the throttle,they are tight lipped about it and even he didnt have alot of info,but he didnt hear anything of a surf system for the Moomba line.Thought that might be a few years away, Just have to wait what the boat show season brings.

moombadaze
10-21-2013, 08:14 AM
Any new surf system will most likely be introduced on the Supra lineup, Moomba will have to wait for the trickle down i would think, maybe a more basic version of what ever comes out in 1-2 years. That being said I have not heard of any surf system myself.

E4NASH
10-21-2013, 09:29 AM
From what I have heard is that there is a potential patent infringement lawsuit by Malibu against Nautique's NSS and that the Moomba/Supra surf system somewhat hinges on the result of that...

jmvotto
10-21-2013, 10:36 AM
Not to go off track but why not...

MC first came up with the surf tab idea, so did they throw they hat in the ring too.. the NSS and surf gate are totally different mechanisms that produce the same result. Not sure why SC would wait, wake plate actuator aren't propriety.

my .02 but then again I am no patent attorney.....

Wax
10-21-2013, 02:09 PM
Not to go off track but why not...

MC first came up with the surf tab idea, so did they throw they hat in the ring too.. the NSS and surf gate are totally different mechanisms that produce the same result. Not sure why SC would wait, wake plate actuator aren't propriety.

my .02 but then again I am no patent attorney.....

Mastercraft may not have patented it, or patented it specifically for the purpose of wake surfing. I'm no patent attorney either, but I did study patent law in school a little. It looks to me like Malibu might have just reason to sue Nautique (and maybe even Mastercraft) for patent infringement.

Looks like, as simply put, Malibu has patented the act of mounting a flap for the purpose of enhancing a surf wake (among much other jargon). If you want to read their patent in detail, go here:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=surf.TI.&OS=TTL/surf&RS=TTL/surf

Also, they have been granted another patent for a fin underneath the boat that can be moved to also help modify the wake. Basically like a small rudder in front of the driveshaft (or maybe where ski fins are) that can be controlled to rotate, therefore helping the boat list it seems. Maybe we'll see this soon too?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=surf.TI.&OS=TTL/surf&RS=TTL/surf

KG's Supra24
10-21-2013, 02:26 PM
Also, they have been granted another patent for a fin underneath the boat that can be moved to also help modify the wake. Basically like a small rudder in front of the driveshaft (or maybe where ski fins are) that can be controlled to rotate, therefore helping the boat list it seems. Maybe we'll see this soon too?


Sounds similar to the CATS system Centurion was pushing with their ramfill for this year.

"In 1990, Ski Centurion introduced the patented Centurion Articulating Tracking System (CATS) to enhance a ski boat’s steering and tracking ability. In 2014, Centurion has done it again, this time introducing a CATS fin with a focus on adjusting for the perfect wake. Through a steering column lever or Touch Vision System, the new CATS fin articulates under the boat on command. While the boat is underway, the CATS fin will deflect the bow of the boat so each rider can manipulate the shape of the wave giving total control of the face, vertical aspect, length and position. While wake surfing with a CATS fin equipped boat and its instant wave adjustments, riders can take their surfing to the next level. Not limited to wake surfing, the new CATS also helps adjust wakeboard wakes without changing onboard ballast or moving people about the boat. Simply adjust the CATS fin port or starboard – based on your boat’s weight with crew and gear – instantly perfecting the wake. "

moombadaze
10-21-2013, 02:34 PM
seems like just gettinga boat to crab walk down the lake would basically have the same effect as Bu's surfgate and could be done with adjustable tracking fins

Wax
10-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Sounds similar to the CATS system Centurion was pushing with their ramfill for this year.

"In 1990, Ski Centurion introduced the patented Centurion Articulating Tracking System (CATS) to enhance a ski boat’s steering and tracking ability. In 2014, Centurion has done it again, this time introducing a CATS fin with a focus on adjusting for the perfect wake. Through a steering column lever or Touch Vision System, the new CATS fin articulates under the boat on command. While the boat is underway, the CATS fin will deflect the bow of the boat so each rider can manipulate the shape of the wave giving total control of the face, vertical aspect, length and position. While wake surfing with a CATS fin equipped boat and its instant wave adjustments, riders can take their surfing to the next level. Not limited to wake surfing, the new CATS also helps adjust wakeboard wakes without changing onboard ballast or moving people about the boat. Simply adjust the CATS fin port or starboard – based on your boat’s weight with crew and gear – instantly perfecting the wake. "

I could not find a patent on this. If they did not patent it (I can't imagine a company of that size not), then maybe Malibu patented it first and might have even based their idea off of the CATS system lol.

I guess it will just be who's lawyers are better...Malibu will have to defend their patents, and the other companies will have to find a way around the patents.

sandm
10-21-2013, 02:52 PM
not sure I get a lawsuit. the nss and surfgate seem to result in a similar movement of the boat but are completely different from each other in how it achieves the intended results both in design and function.

It is interesting that both manufacturers have systems that hit the market at roughly the same time. both appear to have spent $$ and time in r&d. one would assume that the design and testing is kept under wraps and neither system looks to have been "rushed" to the market so could it be more a case of 2 manuf. creating similar ideas at a similar time?

Wax
10-21-2013, 04:16 PM
not sure I get a lawsuit. the nss and surfgate seem to result in a similar movement of the boat but are completely different from each other in how it achieves the intended results both in design and function.


I had never looked at the NSS until you said this. I agree, the mechanism is very different. The question is how well did Malibu's lawyers protect the idea and make it broad enough, while still being specific, to cover for such an apparatus. I doubt Mastercraft will have an issue, as I thought about it I think their's are horizontally oriented plates and basically just trim tabs. Malibu's patent is specifically for vertical plates as far as I can tell.

BTW, I don't see a patent issued to Correct Craft specifically for their NSS...I wonder if they know it's an infringement and are just going to fight Malibu about it not being covered by their patent (and therefore also didn't apply), or if it's patent pending.

sandm
10-21-2013, 04:47 PM
mastercraft's setup is actually used on many offshore powerboats to keep the boat from "walking" at high speeds. look at the rear of most donzi/fountains and you will see dual tabs. they were around before mastercraft started "surftabs". wonder if they will sue them?

heck, sanger had a movable tab system back in the late 60's on their vdrive gofasts. perhaps they should be suing everybody. they could use the money since they aren't moving many boats.

Boonejeepin
10-21-2013, 05:50 PM
Surfgate is well described in the patent where it refers to being mounted in the longitudinal axis.

To me.... The NSS mounts on the vertical axis.

I say, well played Correct Craft.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9ZZKYBjbsJM/TeKdIi4THNI/AAAAAAAADTc/6WVPL1komPw/s1600/longitudinal-axis.jpg

mgswake
10-21-2013, 08:23 PM
I say who cares. I want a mojo because i love the mojo and i dont want ot spend 120000 on a boat. I love the mojo. All i want is a rear facing seat to watch the rider, a walkover transom and an easily adjustable surf wake. give me all three and i would easily drop 60-70k on a brand new mojo.

Sampp1963
10-21-2013, 08:50 PM
I didn't tought I was going to start a lawsuit discussion..lol....
But surf system or not, I'm really looking to get a new Mojo next summer....just waiting my long term job confirmation....

Boonejeepin
10-21-2013, 08:56 PM
I hope that if SC does come out with a surf system that it can be retrofitted to the hulls that are in production today.

NSS can be added by the dealers.

Wax
10-22-2013, 09:28 AM
mastercraft's setup is actually used on many offshore powerboats to keep the boat from "walking" at high speeds. look at the rear of most donzi/fountains and you will see dual tabs. they were around before mastercraft started "surftabs". wonder if they will sue them?

heck, sanger had a movable tab system back in the late 60's on their vdrive gofasts. perhaps they should be suing everybody. they could use the money since they aren't moving many boats.

Exactly, trim tabs are presumably not patented by a boat manufacturer since they are commonplace.

Sanger is still hanging in there? I rode one once and wasn't impressed. Same with Calabria...I'd say the Sanger was the better of the two. DO any of those boats even sell?

Sent from my fourth replacement Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 4...

Wax
10-22-2013, 09:30 AM
I hope that if SC does come out with a surf system that it can be retrofitted to the hulls that are in production today.

NSS can be added by the dealers.

I was surprised it was only $2600 to have them add it. Sounds like they don't mark that up too much as I'm sure a big chunk of that is dealer labor.

Sent from my fourth replacement Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 4...

Wax
10-22-2013, 09:32 AM
I say who cares. I want a mojo because i love the mojo and i dont want ot spend 120000 on a boat. I love the mojo. All i want is a rear facing seat to watch the rider, a walkover transom and an easily adjustable surf wake. give me all three and i would easily drop 60-70k on a brand new mojo.

Amen. I can surf just fine behind my used $30k LSV.

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