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beckman2713
09-28-2006, 05:46 PM
Hello everyone
I picked up my '06 LS in July and been loving it ever since.
Just a few things for people to check when picking up your new boat that I overlooked or didn't know about. I hope these help.

1. Screws were driven into the bottom of the rear seat to far so they would slightly stick through when you kneeled on the seat. (new seat coming from factory)
2. center piece on steering wheel kept popping out.
3. They ran the water strainer hoses over the transmission, so I couldn't even get the dipstick out. (Direct Drive)
4. Holes were not cut out of the factory canvas for the bimini top
5. On the passenger seat storage door, one end of the strap came off, because its just stapled.
6. The glove box lid rubs back and fourth making a squeaking noise.
7. The tie down loops were never installed to hold the bimini.
You have to keep the brake lockout piece taped in when towing the trailer without the boat on it or the brakes lock up when it bounces.
8. Battery cables laying in the bilge. (wet)
9. Pieces of tubing and scraps in bilge from the factory.
10. Screws holding the swim platform mounts were loose

I have been searching under winterize and found a lot of great info on certain procedures. I really appreciate everyones input and help. I was wondering if anyone has a step by step list of things to do on the engine for winterizing. I live in upstate NY and it gets mighty cold, so I want to make sure I do everything right. I have the EFI 325hp engine w/raw water cooling direct drive. My dealer is an hour and half away or else I would take it to them. Plus I do all my own vehicle work, so I kinda know what I'm doing. I looked in the manual and its pretty detailed, but I was looking for more. I use to winterize my outboard, but this is my first inboard. Any info would be great. Thanks

JoeTechie
09-28-2006, 06:32 PM
Good list. We should keep a larger list of known things to look for.

1. This one was an '05 problem - they said they changed the screw lengths in late 05/06... Hmmm.

2. Contact cement.

3. New

4. New, but they do not make the canvas so i guess it is not their problem.

5. New

6. Foam Weather stripping - also keeps it from making scratches on the gel coat under the lid

7. See #4

7a - Knwon problem - BoatMate has worked this problem witha few owners who need to pull the empty trailer longer distances - still a problem - "was never designed to do this."

8. New, but everything on the boat is able to get wet.

9. True of all boats I know. They never get a person in there with a shop vac to get every tiny scrap out. Maybe in Mastercrafts... but not for $20k less. I shop vacced all the hidden spaces in mine twice and never have seen anything since.

10. Your dealer should have told you to check all screws during the break in period. I believe it is in the owners manual as well now. Just how mechanical connectors work.

I have no input on "winterization" - to us in Central FL - it means using Sta-bil for 3 weeks while on holiday vacation with the family. We Ski Feb-Nov and just go cruising the rivers in Dec-Jan.

-Joe
(useless post #302921)

lowdrag
09-28-2006, 11:50 PM
This is probably not an all inclusive list but I'll give you everything I can think of for right now.

Add Sta-bil to the gas. If you're using fuel with ethanol, it's recommended that you drain the fuel tank as much as possible. If you're not using ethanol top it off.

Run the motor to get the fuel with Sta-bil in it through the whole fuel system. While the motor is hot, change the oil.

Pull all of the ballast bags out, empty them completely and hang them in your garage or someplace. I also pull the ballast fill lines off of the manifold, drain them and leave them.

There are two ways you can winterize the motor. Either drain all of the water out and leave it or fill it with antifreeze. Draining it is probably a little easier, but filling it with antifreeze provides corrosion protection. If I just drain mine, I disconnect the hose that runs between the exhaust manifolds (the one with the garden hose connectors) and drain them. I then pull the impellor, coat it with some petroleum jelly and store it in a plastic bag. Open the freeze plugs on the bottom of the block to drain it. I also go through and look at all of the hoses on the motor, transmission, and water pickup and pull them off at their lowest spot and drain them. I usually leave the hoses disconnected over the winter to help any water that's left to evaporate. It's a good idea, especially if you do this, to make a checklist and use it when you get the boat out to make sure you get everything connected again.

I've never tried this but I've heard people mention it. If you use antifreeze, get a bucket and put the antifreeze in it. Find a way to run a hose from the water intake into the bucket. Then start the motor and let it pull the antifreeze into the motor until you see it spitting out the exhaust. I would think you'd want the engine to be hot during this so the thermostat is open. Either way, I'd probably open the freeze plugs to drain the block first. Afterwards I'd crack the freeze plugs open a little and see if it was antifreeze that runs out.

After all of that, I'd find some fogging oil. Pull each spark plug out and fog the cylinders. Then turn the motor over once or twice.

Finish everything up by pulling the battery and putting it on a maintenance charger over the winter.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

beckman2713
09-29-2006, 04:12 AM
Thanks thats great stuff....I think I'm going with antifreeze.

NCSUmoomba
09-29-2006, 11:42 AM
If you look in the owner's manuals for both the boat and the engine, all of the winterizing procedures are listed, step by step. It is not hard to do at all, just a little bit time consuming if it is your first time.

james yarosz
09-29-2006, 07:26 PM
If you go with antifreeze,(I do),make sure you drain the engine block(both sides),and the manifolds BEFORE you add the antifreeze.If the block is not empty the antifreeze will mostly just blow out the exhaust.

beckman2713
09-30-2006, 02:21 AM
I haven't looked yet, but where are the drains for the manifolds. Thanks

james yarosz
09-30-2006, 09:11 AM
Each manifold has a hose attached to the back.These hoses are hooked togeather at the back of the motor with a garden hose fitting.Just take the connection appart and the manifold's will drain.

beckman2713
10-01-2006, 08:13 AM
Ok...what kind of antifreeze do you guys recommend?

Engine Nut
10-01-2006, 11:50 AM
We winterize every engine that we build (about 10,000 per year) and we do not use anti freeze in any of them.

If you do use anti freeze, make sure to use non-toxic anti freeze like they use in RV water systems. You should also drain it out in the spring before you put the boat in the water as in most states it is illegal to dump any anti freeze into a lake or river. If you do use anti freeze, you should drain the water hoses, block and manifolds of all water first, then add the anti freeze. I would add the anti freeze by removing the thermostat housing top and thermostat and dumping the anti freeze into the block directly into the engine till it was full.

Engine Nut

james yarosz
10-01-2006, 01:54 PM
I use the "Sierra"brand non toxic antifreeze.The "Pink stuff" that is used in RV's will actually freeze if it get's too cold. I have seen it push freeze plugs out.I used to pull the thermostat and pour it in but now I find it easier to suck it in with the water pump AFTER I drain the block and manifolds.In the spring I drain the block and manifold's into a pan or bucket and I get most of the antifreeze back.

lowdrag
10-02-2006, 04:39 AM
When I used antifreeze, I did it the way Engine Nut said. I've just heard of people doing it the other way.

Engine Nut,

Since you're the expert, do you ever see problems with engines that are not winterized with antifreeze? Corrosion or pockets of water that did not drain freezind and causing damage?

Engine Nut
10-02-2006, 07:36 AM
When I used antifreeze, I did it the way Engine Nut said. I've just heard of people doing it the other way.

Engine Nut,

Since you're the expert, do you ever see problems with engines that are not winterized with antifreeze? Corrosion or pockets of water that did not drain freezind and causing damage?

No, I have not seen any negative results of not using anti freeze. As I mentioned in my original post, we winterize every engine when it leaves our facility. All of our boat builder partners do the same. None of those units are winterised with anti freeze. When we winterize here, we leave the block plugs out and the exhaust hoses disconnected. I have personally been winterizing inboard and sterndrive engines for more than 20 years and have never used anti freeze ... even when I lived in Wisconsin where it getrs pretty cold in the winter. I have never had a block or exhaust manifolds damaged from freezing nor have I ever had a problem caused buy corrosion in the block or in the exhaust manifolds.

Engine Nut

BensonWdby
10-02-2006, 08:12 PM
So here is a little dilema. Please don't be offended, however, it is entirely possible that Engine Nut is not who he states. Then again it is entirely possible that he is. In fact it is entirely possible that I am not who I claim, and on anyday I am not sure myself.

One like to believe that he is who he claims, but how would you know. I tell my kids - don't trust anyone on the internet.

If I go to the Indmar website and they say not to use antifreeze, then I may believe it. But since I am pretty sure that it will not hurt the engine I will probably go with it.

Nothing Personal Larry, Just would hat to hang my hat on an unverified source.

Dave

JoeTechie
10-03-2006, 12:34 AM
Benson,

We all understand that anything posted on a community website is to be taken with a grain of salt, but what has you so afraid that Engine Nut is not Larry ?

I think that by now someone from SC would have outed him. He is posting pretty direct answers with very little leeway for "posing".

Call Indmar and get extension 105. Larry Engelbert, Director of Customer Service answers - so the person is actually at that job - so this it a pretty damn good impersonator if it is not Larry himself.

Is it just because YOU feel that we should all winterize WITH antifreeze that the company could never make a post like this ???

Curious,

Joe


p.s. - I thought Ed was the secret agent amoung us ?

tarkus70
10-03-2006, 12:42 AM
I used to work for an Indmar dealer and in all the classes we took the instructors said there was no need to use antifreeze. Just drain the block and manifolds and fog. I have never used it since the last boat I had for 8 years and no rust or corrosion.

tarkus70
10-03-2006, 12:50 AM
One last thing page 54 and 55 of indmar operators manual say nothing about antifreeze just to leave the plugs out of the block and even says to put them in a bag attached to steering wheel to remind you in spring to reinstall them

lowdrag
10-03-2006, 01:02 AM
Good info. Thanks. I've only used antifreeze once and it was a pain in the butt. But every time I haven't used it I've always had that thought in the back of my head that I hope there aren't any problems when I get the boat out for the season. Seeing this kind of lays that to rest.

BensonWdby
10-03-2006, 01:06 AM
I have no intention of discrediting anyone or any company, and I am not a mechanic. I have no problem with Indmar posting any useful info on any web site. I don't actually do my own winterizing, just relying on the local dealer. The sources specified here are certainly helpful in gaining confidence. I don't choose to use anti-freeze, but both of the people who have worked on my boat in the last 6 years do. The most recent is the Moomba/Supra dealer in my area.

However, this is one instance where being trusting can cost a lot of people (well maybe not a lot, since we don't really get that much traffic) a lot of money, IF the advice was not sound.

I have been on more than one message board in the last year where mis-information was intentionally dispersed, sometimes as posers, and sometimes just random.

Again - no reflection on Larry or Indmar, assuming he is real (which appears to be the case based on subsequent posts to my repsonse), I certainly appreciate his time in reviewing this message board and providing guidance. I would hate to think that anyone on this board would think I was bashing him or Indmar or SC.

I don't have time for negativism, but I am a little cautious - maybe overly so (that's what the kids say anyhow).

With all due respect and maybe too much caution
Dave

beckman2713
10-03-2006, 07:40 AM
Thanks everyone for the input :D

smokedog2
10-03-2006, 09:35 AM
Of some note BW is in WI where it is very wet and very very cold in winter. Engine Nut is in TN - I think.

As long as you get the water out I think you are fine. you are draining things that normally have water and sit so I'm not too worried about rust.

I think it is important to know what your dealer did. Last year mine was ready to turn the key in the spring. I better check and see if anything is different. It sounds to me like there is more than one option.

The RV pref comes from winterizing cabins & such where it is nearly impossible to get ALL the water out of the lines.

JesseC
10-03-2006, 02:40 PM
Personally I would like to thank Engine Nut for keeping an eye on us. I would have made several mistakes without his help. He keeps shade tree mechanics like myself in check. So with that said, Enging Nut, please keep up the good work, I for one am greatful!!!

zabooda
10-03-2006, 03:28 PM
I have never used antifreeze in my boat except for one boat where I couldn't get to all the hoses on the engine water pump so I poured antifreeze back into the hoses I could get off. I know that dealers love antifreeze not because of the freeze protection but the liability protection. Some years back the dealers blew out the engine and a few boaters would then take the boat out before the last freeze or failed to winterize the boat again. In the Spring, some of these boat owners knowing they screwed up and ruined an engine would go back and claim the dealer didn't winterize the boat correctly. The dealers then went to leave hoses off and plugs out and require the boat owner to come back in the Spring to connect back up. The owners complained of the cost of bringing the boat back in. The dealers then went to antifreeze.

There is some corrosion without antifreeze but it is minimal. Without water in the manifold you have bare wet steel exposed to air. I get some discolored water when I first run the engine in the Spring.

smokedog2
10-03-2006, 05:59 PM
wouldn't you know it. The solution is for a different problem.

I'm not sure I believe it. I have three gal of pink in my boat, if I go to run int he spring I would expect it to be gone before I realize a problem. Still, a good story.

Pink also let you know when you are done.

james yarosz
10-03-2006, 07:50 PM
The reason I use antifreeze is I believe it's easier.I only drain the block and manifolds.I don't drain all the hoses.Since I suck the antifreeze into the water intake line I don't remove the impellor.I usually get about 5 years out of an impellor and I believe it last's longer because it has antifreeze in it all winter.Not using antifreeze is fine it's just I think my way is easier in the long run. :D

zabooda
10-03-2006, 09:58 PM
The liability of the engine is yours when you leave the facility when winterized with antifreeze. If you ran three gallons of Fools Gold out of your engine and you go back with freeze problems the owners would laugh you out of the place. The block won't freeze unless the antifreeze was diluted and that would be hard to prove unless others had the problem also.

BensonWdby
10-03-2006, 10:04 PM
I did some checking with my authroized Moomba dealer and they actually are familiar with Larry. And they confirmed that they get their new boats without the brass drain plugs in them. This would certainly support the claim that Indmar does not use antifreeze - who knows how long the engine was in 'cold storage'.

The dealer also mentioned that at Indmar it does not get nearly as cold as in MN or WI, and that they definitely use antifreeze. But I am guessing the previous mention of conenience and liability is probably the driver, and possibly easier to put the owner at ease. People are accustomed to getting something for their money- a flush with antifreeze vs getting nothing (just draining the engine) seems better.

Larry - if you are still out there, I apologize for doubting you. I also value the input of mfg reps like you and Brian. I hope you understand my caution. If you are ever in MN I owe you a pull....

Dave

Wolf-
10-03-2006, 11:21 PM
Geez, Ed.
I leave and come back to find "3 Days of the Condor" going on in here.
"Larry, whats the secret code? IS that YOU Brian?"

You need to knock off the wakesurfing and get back to controlling this group already.

That being said, no one has mentioned pulling the prop and greasing the shaft.

Duct taping the exhaust bellows closed is a great idea though. Keeps the squirrels from roasting their nuts.

Wolf-
10-03-2006, 11:27 PM
I use the "Sierra"brand non toxic antifreeze.The "Pink stuff" that is used in RV's will actually freeze if it get's too cold. I have seen it push freeze plugs out.I used to pull the thermostat and pour it in but now I find it easier to suck it in with the water pump AFTER I drain the block and manifolds.In the spring I drain the block and manifold's into a pan or bucket and I get most of the antifreeze back.

Yup. Gets all slushy and nasty. If it freezes it pushes its way into the fresh water line material (RVs) and you taste it for months.



The RV pref comes from winterizing cabins & such where it is nearly impossible to get ALL the water out of the lines.

RV dealers force compressed air into the systems to purge most of the water. But where ever a line takes an upward bend, that elbow always has a wee bit of water in it. It also forces the water out of the faucet valves.

qb12
10-04-2006, 09:18 AM
on my last boat i simply drained the block and and manifolds along with pulling the hoses off the transmission cooler and of course the impeller.

the new boat i am having some service done by the dealer so i am planning on going ahead this year and having them winterize.$$$$

wolf, i don't think ed is surfing so much as trying to figure out what all he has to do to get his pool ready for everybody coming to the jamboree next spring.. :D

qb12
10-04-2006, 09:53 AM
ed, i insure a couple of sod farms here in oklahoma. last time i checked it was brown side down.... 8)

Engine Nut
10-04-2006, 10:06 AM
Of some note BW is in WI where it is very wet and very very cold in winter. Engine Nut is in TN - I think.

As long as you get the water out I think you are fine. you are draining things that normally have water and sit so I'm not too worried about rust.

I think it is important to know what your dealer did. Last year mine was ready to turn the key in the spring. I better check and see if anything is different. It sounds to me like there is more than one option.

The RV pref comes from winterizing cabins & such where it is nearly impossible to get ALL the water out of the lines.

You are right, I do live in TN now ... but I spent a majority of my life in one of the cold part of the country ... 35 years in Wisconsin. I know what 40 below zero feels like. I didn't use anti freeze when I winterized there either.

Engine Nut

Nafplio
10-04-2006, 12:43 PM
Two of trhee marine shops in my town drain the water out. One uses antifreeze. I use the last because the owner is a relative. Never had a problem. Most of my friends use either of the other two. Not a problem either. One of the shops even warranties their work.
On a sidenote, I have found the collective experience on this BB invaluable. And you get info straight from Indmar and SC. I've even printed some of Larry's posts for future reference. A friend just got a '02 Sanger V-210. It's a real nice ride. But we've been looking and finding nothing like this board for his boat.

kinghomes
10-29-2006, 07:35 PM
I am keeping my boat in heated storage with back up heat. I plan to run it a couple of times between now and May . In may we will start sking. Should I do anything?

Thanks :?

Engine Nut
10-30-2006, 07:29 AM
I am keeping my boat in heated storage with back up heat. I plan to run it a couple of times between now and May . In may we will start sking. Should I do anything?

Thanks :?

Just pray the electricity doesn't go out. We get calls every spring from people that keep their boats in heated storage looking for pricing on replacement engine blocks.

Engine Nut

kinghomes
10-30-2006, 08:12 AM
Because of a sprinkler system theyare going to be agressive about not allowing a freez. They use propane in case of a power outage. I live close and on the same power loop. So outside of that what do you think?

Thank You

Wolf-
10-30-2006, 08:28 AM
I bit the bullet, accepted that it was cold out and winterized my baby.

smokedog2
10-30-2006, 11:17 AM
Wolf, by now you should know that is the wrong answer. Like the guy that wanted to leave the boat at the dock for weeks unattended.

Sure, you will be fine. In your life, unlike mine - nothing ever goes wrong.

Like the friend that lost power while he was in SC for Christmas - his boat was in his heated garage.

Oh wait - her winterized it anyway so that is a bad example (still burst pipes in the house).

Moomba - no worries - you'll be fine.

SD2

qb12
10-30-2006, 06:16 PM
Wolf, I feel your pain.

Just got back from the boat storage facility draining the block and so forth.

taking her to the dealer in another week after son's football playoffs for a few warranty issues.

i did surf yesterday for the last time of the year ed, water temp 59 air temp 74. a little chilly even with a full wetsuit but still a blast.

only problem was a friend and his soon to be ex went with us. i will never do that one again. he knocked down about 18 fosters and she kept telling him they were "going" to get a divorce. needless to say i was planning on doing the "winterize" thing after the lake but ended up having to drive him home for the sake of all others driving and of course himself.

oh well, now they are going to have to sell their cc... :roll:

adsman
11-20-2007, 12:38 PM
I am new to boating in "the south".

I own a 07 LSV (my first boat... my dad has owned 4 in the north and always winterized).

I store my boat in a non heated storage unit and I would like to continue to use the boat throughout the winter, but I am concerned about the occasional cold snap that we will get in houston. A few times during the winter it will get below freezing (31 degrees-ish) during the night. (not sure how cold it gets iniside the storage unit)

Do I have to winterize it?
AM I worrying about nothing?
What is the temperature threshhold for winterizing?
Should I only worry if there are sustained temps below freezing... etc....

need advice!

qb12
11-20-2007, 12:58 PM
i would just drain the block and manifold and you should be good to go. it is always wise to tow the boat for a short trip to force water out of the engine jackets.

04OUTBACK
11-20-2007, 01:40 PM
Adsman,
I am in Mississippi. I drain the block, hoses, etc... I was able to easily pull mine out in early spring, run for the day, and drain again without too much trouble. I ran mine 2 weeks ago prior to putting it up and hope to catch a warm day soon and run. Make sure you put Stabil in your fuel and run it into the system before you park it.

zegm
11-20-2007, 05:44 PM
The first winter after purchasing a MasterCraft with the Ford 351 I drained the block and all the hoses. That spring I fired her up and saw water coming out of a blown out freeze plug. Luckily that was all the damage. I now drain all the water like before and then pull the suction hose off the hull put a gallon of the non-toxic antifreeze in with a couple of gallons of water and suck the bucket dry. Then I drain everything again. It only takes a few minutes of extra work and I haven't had that problem again. The difference here might be that the GM block has drains on both sides were as the Ford block had it only on one side and it was the other side of the engine that blew out the freeze plug. To finally solve the problem I moved to Florida and just drain the water and forget it! YOu know for the 3 weeks we take Holidays!

Sled491
11-20-2007, 10:22 PM
Man you florida guys really know how to rub it in! :roll:

zegm
11-20-2007, 10:52 PM
Ahhhhhh well now I feel bad about it, tell you what .........the next time we have a hurricane you can rub it in. Or do as I did.......kept moving south! I started in Chicago a LONG LONG time ago!

kaneboats
01-27-2008, 08:31 PM
-- Fresh Newbie
Just purchased a 2000 Outback from down near Palm Beach. Brought it back to Tally today. It's supposed to be 36 tonight and warmer for the next 10 days. Think I should bother draining it? We're only about 8-10 weeks from doing a little riding. Thanks for all the great posts-- this has been a fantastic education.

zegm
01-27-2008, 08:44 PM
OK I live in Panama City and I usually don't drain the engine unless I know we are going to have a HARD freeze which is 26 or less for much of the night. I don't want to tell you what to do but I am not going to do anything with the MasterCraft tonight. And when I do worry about it I put a 75 or 100 watt drop light under the engine compartment.

kaneboats
01-27-2008, 10:27 PM
That's hilarious! I just said to my brother that the trouble light would probably give off enough if I left it in there. Thanks for the quick input!