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mvd
03-10-2007, 05:02 PM
I heard that this perfectpass showed the water temperature. Is this displayed on a new lsv? And how can i find it?

JoeTechie
03-11-2007, 04:43 PM
Press Menu and Up keys at the same time, then chose System Info from the menu. Water temp is on that page.


-Joe

mvd
03-11-2007, 05:27 PM
Press Menu and Up keys at the same time, then chose System Info from the menu. Water temp is on that page.


-Joe
So the only way to display the watertemperature is with the systemmenu? Is the a way to display it constantly maybe with the use of an other display?
I want to see the watertemp all the time and do not want to search it in the systemmenu.

Any idea's

JoeTechie
03-12-2007, 06:17 PM
Lots of Ideas - All of them sent to Perfect Pass. I think they have one of the worst user interfaces ever. I worked in programming for 10 years and I was big into ergonomics for UI... these guys are engineers, NOT users. Simply adding a "select" or "enter" button would improve the entire interface 30 fold.
So the setup would be: Menu, up or down, then enter, then up or down in the new menu, then enter, etc. Pressing menu and up is downright silly. using up or down as enter is not even funny how bad it is.

Perfect pass is what it is... the only thing available. (though that is changing shortly) So why put money towards reprogramming ?

:(

This is a sore spot for me, so pardon my sarcasm.

The short answer is: "No, that's it"

-Joe

Nafplio
03-13-2007, 12:49 PM
Just curious, why do you want to display the temp all the time? My lake got as high as 67 last season. Kinda discouraging..

Wolf-
03-23-2007, 07:18 PM
Perfect pass is what it is... the only thing available. (though that is changing shortly) So why put money towards reprogramming ?

This is a sore spot for me, so pardon my sarcasm.
The short answer is: "No, that's it"
-Joe

Some random thoughts on the new Zero Off System (www.zerogps.com)

Competition is always good.
Not USAWS certified (end of summer?)
5" and 3.5" gauges only.
Samples off a minimum of 4 SATS. (good luck with this one)
Not enough information available for a consumer to make a knowledgeable decision.

JoeTechie
03-24-2007, 01:04 AM
I agree - I had heard they were developing this, but did not look into it further. Glad someone did it... hope they did it right - or at least close for a 1.0 product. Much more slalom based to start - so was PP, and they have improved. I'm sure 0-off will as well. Promising. Hell, they pretty much imitated the exact user interface I recomended to PP - so much more intuitive!!!

I'm confused about your 4 sat comment. Too many / too few / ??? all current gps chips use 8 or 12 for tracking, then read data from best 3 to triangulate and use a 4th as error correction. Not much more can be gathered from a 5th from my understanding. the other tracked sats are kept in a queue of "next in line" as they move in orbit.


-Joe

zabooda
03-24-2007, 01:25 AM
Their site doesn't talk about river current offset. I imagine you will have to determine river current and direction probably by floating the river and the speed and direction from the GPS is then inputted into the system with a push of a button. You would have to do that for each area you go to as the current changes if you want to be exact. The rivers here flow 3-4 mph so if your idling upstream at 3-4 mph the GPS will read zero and sure enough the guy on the shore is watching you go nowhere. Lakes would be fine. I can't imagine not getting 4 satillites.

JoeTechie
03-24-2007, 10:02 AM
if your idling upstream at 3-4 mph the GPS will read zero

I think you are thinking of a paddlewheel system. GPS is not realtive to earth, it is absolute position in space, so it is EXACTLY what you want in a river. If you are not moving or are moving backwards it will know and display it. if you are not making forward progress, then gps will show you at zero, no matter what the river and paddlewheel are doing.

Now what the SKIER feels is different. If he is tied to an upstream rock he already feels 4mph of rushing water, but since this has nothig to do with distance between two bouys - it does not matter either.

-J

zabooda
03-24-2007, 12:41 PM
I couldn't find anything tangible on the internet for GPS calculations on the water except for a blog on Wakeworld but the GPS measures ground speed so if youíre using anything besides the ground as the medium for movement (air for airplanes or water for boats) then ground speed is the summation of the relative speed of the plane or boat on the medium (air or water) and also the speed of the medium relative to the Earth.

For example: Suppose you wake surf at 9 mph and hypothetically youíre on a river that flows at 9 mph (letís hope not). At rest while you are floating along, the GPS will show the ground speed which is 9 mph. If the ZeroGPS doesnít recognize the river flow, it will indicate to you that youíre at your cruising speed of 9 mph even though youíre sitting still on the water. I imagine that the manufacturers built into their system a method where you sit on the water for a minute after the GPS gets the satellite capture and the device will log the information into the system and do the compensation using that setting. Then the ZeroGPS is very accurate for that time and place. ZeroGPS website doesnít explain that. Itís amazing how a company can take about $250 worth of parts (GPS device, microprocessor, display and throttle servo unit) and charge $1,300 and higher. Itís probably like when Moomba came into the boating business..ĒItís time for some competition.Ē



http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/425305.html?1174616380

By Toneus (toneus) on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 10:30 am:

They've got a small issue. Speed of the water. This is the age old issue that pilots face. Ground speed vs. airspeed.

Those who board in any body of water that is tidal or a river will agree that you can have quite a flow rate.

Example:
Flow rate = 2 mph (very conservative)
GPS speed setting = 23 mph
Desired speed = 23mph

GPS based boat ground speed into the flow (up stream) 23 mph, net water speed 25 mph.

Result: 2 mph too fast


In the other direction. Again, the GPS based boat ground speed 23mph. But in this direction, the water is helping by pushing the boat and extra 2 mph, net water speed 21 mph.

Result: 2 mph too slow

For accurate water speed, you must measure the true boat speed vs. the water.

-Toneus

By billy e (projectely4) on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 1:49 pm:

Also the speed adjustments work in increments of 1/10th of a mph so you can pretty much get the exact speed you want.

By Toneus (toneus) on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 2:08 pm:

Billy,

It doesn't matter how fine the adjustments are if the actual ground speed is not accurate.

As kids we all tried running up an escalator coming down. It didn't matter how fast you ran up, the speed of the escalator coming at you slowed your forward progress. Same thing as driving upstream. The water coming at you will slow your forward travel, which is what the GPS is measuring. Thus it will use more speed to overcome the water flow. Result, you're boarding at 28 mph!

What is the method that the GPS speed control uses to make sure that the speed of the boat relative to the water is correct? Without knowing the speed of the water, it will "never" be accurate. And definitely not within a 1/10.

-Toneus

JoeTechie
03-25-2007, 12:13 AM
Ok, again, that guy was speaking of WATER speed, NOT Boat Speed.

Let's start simple.

GPS does not care WHAT is under you. It measures WHERE you are in relation to orbiting sattelites. Your position is triangulated by 3 of them, a 4th used for error correction and altitude. As your POSITION in space changes, so does the rate at which the GPS receiver determines your speed. Again, not caring if you are on water, gravel, sand, or lemon creme pie filling !!!! It also does not care if you are at 1 foot or 60 feet in the air - forward speed is forward speed. Take your hand-held GPS into the cockpit and look - it does not care if there is a headwind or not - it will give true forward progress "speed".

GPS does not measure ground speed as much as it does not measure pie filling speed. The GPS recievers make the calculations based soley on the satellites.

BUILT-IN AUTOMOTIVE GPS is DIFFERENT! It uses additional sensors in the wheels, the steering wheel, etc, to work when small changes occur that may not be picked up by the gps as a change(as in going around a corner) - GPS would see you moving forward at an angle, the auto gps says "no, they turned the wheel, so we are now headed 90 degrees from our previous position 3 seconds ago. This is why built-in auto gps units are expensive, and hand-helds are not - they are nowhere near as good for going around small roads, downtown, etc.

Forward progress is forward progress - if it requires more engine rpm or horsepower to make the boat go that speed - then fine, THAT is what is effected, the engine speed, but NOT the gps location in space and therefore NOT the GPS speed.

What he is speaking of is "water speed." What you as a skier/boarder "FEEL." Like I said the first time, if you want exactly 20mph of water under your board, THEN you will need to compensate for the relative water speed. A simple paddlewheel hookup as an add-on can take care of that, I'm sure it will be a 2.0 upgrade! ;)

I hope this helps, I can draw picutures if you need me too.

-Joe

zabooda
03-25-2007, 04:43 AM
You made it perfectly clear. Thanks for your help.

edwindenijs
03-25-2007, 09:00 AM
Wake differance will bu huge if you boat on water where is a lot of current and it is all about the wake or not?
Going 23 mph downstream gives a different wake then 23 mph upstream.
So it is all about speed, ballast, and what kind of water you are on (deep/ shallow).
That is why i think speed control is only a little help to get the best wake.

Give advice because i'am only a beginner who's waiting for his new toy(LSV 07) to arrive in may.
For example what speed is mostly ussed for starters?

Wolf-
03-25-2007, 01:40 PM
Wake differance will bu huge if you boat on water where is a lot of current and it is all about the wake or not?
Going 23 mph downstream gives a different wake then 23 mph upstream.
So it is all about speed, ballast, and what kind of water you are on (deep/ shallow).
That is why i think speed control is only a little help to get the best wake.

Give advice because i'am only a beginner who's waiting for his new toy(LSV 07) to arrive in may.
For example what speed is mostly ussed for starters?

If you are new to wakeboarding, go buy "The Book". Its like $99-110 online.
DVD one walks through how to drive properly, how to weight your boat, gear, safety, etc.

Now, speeds:
It largely depends on your weight. The greater your weight, the faster you need to go for the water to "harden" up., ie, keep your flab dry.

For a 200lb man, 17-20 is a nice starting number.
Won't hurt as bad when you fall.
Mistakes don't escalate as quickly.

As you get better, you will start pushing up to the 24-25 range.

edwindenijs
03-25-2007, 03:48 PM
Thanks,
thats what i call good advice!