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AaronWhitt82
09-05-2007, 03:17 AM
Hey guys... I know this is my first post, but I just bought a 99' Outback about a month ago. It has the Indmar 350 (310H.P.) DD in it.
I had the boat out the other day for the 2nd time and all was running fine until right around sunset the boat decides to die in the middle of the lake and it wouldn't start back up. Had to get her towed in to the trailer.
Well the next day took a bunch of stuff apart and put the water pickup hose in a 5 gallon bucket and turned the hose on and started it up....
Well come to find out for some reason the choke was staying closed and wouldn't open. I'm not good with carbs (Holley 4150 or 4160/ Not sure which one), but did some researching and think I may have fixed it, but aren't sure at all, and I got it to stay open and it ran good and wouldn't flood itself out.
Well today took her out to see how it ran under a load.... Seemed to run fine, but from a dead stop I would hammer the throttle and after it would just about get to plane and speed up the motor would backfire and spit and lose acceleration. If I just eased into it everything seemed fine, but it also didn't seem like it was reaching top speed either. The boat also idles no prob and runs smooth. I'm pretty much lost now and don't want to take her into the dealer.
Just wondering if any of you guys might know off the top of your heads what it might need? Rebuild kit?, Accelerator Pump?, Power Valve? Idle/ Air mixture screw?; I'm clueless.
Also I've noticed the Temp. gauge is only reaching to around 125 degrees, but if I shut the boat off and turn the key on then it goes back up to near operating temp. then as soon as I start the boat and take off it drops right back down again. I'm not sure if its the gauge or maybe the thermostat...
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Aaron

JesseC
09-05-2007, 12:49 PM
I am not much help with Carbs either, but it sounds like someone may have removed the thermostat all together or it is stuck open.

Buttafewcoe
09-05-2007, 01:17 PM
Get the engine temp up to normal. That may help with the fuel prob. Make sure your plugs do not have any build-up on them. Check the distibutor cap. Some fuel problems turn out to be combustion issues and the fuel thing is a symptom.
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Hope this helps
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B

AaronWhitt82
09-05-2007, 01:54 PM
Thanks guys. I'll check that stuff out when I get a chance.

Also does anyone know the correct plug for this motor? It had the AC MR43LTS in it and I took them out then checked the owners manual and it reccomended an AC MR43T. So I went to the parts store and got those and put them in and I'm not sure which is the right plug.
Thanks

JesseC
09-05-2007, 02:05 PM
We need Larry (Engine_nut at Indmar) to chime in on the correct plug. This may be the cause of the unburnt fuel. The plug you removed was a
MR43LTS L "Long", T "Tapered", S "Stainless"
and you replaced it with a
MR43T T "Tapered" this plug should have a shorter shank (threaded part) as well as not being stainless. The stainless part will not matter, but the different shank on the plug will affect the burn in the cylinder. Hopefully Larry will read this one soon and give you the correct plug to use.

You could always call Indmar and ask. They are VERY helpful.

AaronWhitt82
09-05-2007, 02:45 PM
Hey thanks alot for the reply Jesse. I called the local Moomba dealer that is about 4 hours away unfortunately. They said to use the NGK TR5 plug. He also said that is the only brand they use and that they don't use the AC or Autolite or whatever else. Fortunately the local CarQuest has them in stock for $2.86 a plug. I'm going to head on over there now and pick them up and get em installed in the boat. Not sure when I will be able to get on the water again, but hopefully this might resolve my problem. I'm also going to check cap and rotor to make sure there is no moisture in them. If this doesn't fix it then I'm assuming the damn Holley Carb needs some work.....

AaronWhitt82
09-05-2007, 10:22 PM
Alright so I just got back from taking the boat for a test drive.
With the new NGK plugs she seems to run better, buttt at or around 3,000R's and over when I hammer the throttle after about 10-15 seconds the boat completely cuts out then when I back the throttle down it will cut in and out. So then I pulled it all the way to neutral and the boat comes back to an idle. I then hammer it down again and it runs fine for 15 seconds maybe longer then does the same thing all over. Almost seems like it's not getting enough fuel or something in the carb?
If I just cruise below 3,000R's it runs fine and doesn't cut out at all so I dunno....
Thanks

Brian Raymond
09-06-2007, 01:45 AM
Aaron, hope all is well. I would stay with the o.e.m. spark plugs (MR43LTS), and gap them @ .030. They can be purchased and drop shipped from your dealer, or purchase them from Indmar (901.953.3350). The carb. issue at hand can be several things, it sounds to me like the secondaries are not opening. You will visually have to verify this. There are a few factors that may be involved, if the fuel has not properly been stabilized over the years during winterization, there may be some varnish build up on the primary needle and seat (which effects the float level), which will not let enough fuel in the primary bowl to deliver the proper flow to build up the r.p.m.'s for the secondaries to open. There may also be residual varnish on the secondary butterfly shaft, which may restrict them from opening. The other thought is, the secondary vac. diaphragm may be dry rotted or ruptured, this will not let the secondaries open at all, and can create a lean "pop" when the primary is emptied. One adjustment to look at, is the accelerator pump spring. There should be zero clearence between the pump hammer and the spring nut at w.o.t. This should be checked with the key off, and the throttle in the w.o.t. position. If there is a gap, use (2) 3/8" wrenches to adj.(open the spring). I would order and replace the thermostat and gasket set to, just for the piece of mind. Hope this helps, keep us posted. Brian Raymond

AaronWhitt82
09-06-2007, 12:35 PM
Hey thank you very much for the reply Brian!
As far as the history on the boat goes.... The guy hardly used it and it sat for a few years or more and he maybe took it out once or twice a season, but it was still serviced in spring and fall of every year at the local marina.
As far as the fuel goes I'm not sure if it was stabilized or if he had put anything in the tank. When I bought it there was about 3/4 of a tank in it which he said had been in there a while, but stabilized.
If there is parts of the carb that are varnished up is it possible to just run some carb cleaner through the gas or do I have to take the carb apart and clean everything with some carb cleaner? Also if I do take the carb apart will I need to replace any gaskets? It does seem as there is a lack of fuel going to the secondary though. I will check the acc. pump spring adj. today and see what that looks like and also take a look at the secondary vac. diaphragm.
Thanks a bunch Brian. Aaron

JesseC
09-06-2007, 08:50 PM
I would also change the fuel filter. It is real easy and inexpensive. It may not be able to handle the high flow of the higher RPMs.

AaronWhitt82
09-07-2007, 01:45 AM
Alright so I've checked everything and took some things apart as you said to check Brian. Seems everything is as it should be and I couldn't find any build up inside the primary bowl. Secondary diaphragm is like new and not dry rotted or punctured. Acc. pump hammer and the nut are adjusted correctly as well.
I'll have it on the water Saturday and will check to make sure the secondaries are opening. If they are then what else could be the problem? If not then I guess I need to check some other things.
As far as the fuel filter goes..... I changed it on Moday and since then have only put around a hour on it. Is it possible that maybe it needs changed again?
I'm hoping it's just an easy fix and something thats in front of me that I can't figure out!
Thanks

AaronWhitt82
09-07-2007, 06:44 PM
Well today I took the cap and rotor off and inspected them. There was alot of corrosion on both so I went to the parts store and bought some new ones and installed them. I wonder if this possibly had to do with part or the whole problem?
Also I took the primary and secondary bowls off the carb. Everything inside looked fine and there wasn't any varnish or dirt etc. The floats also seemed to be working properly and at correct levels. I also took the cover off the Accelerator pump and checked the diaphragm and no holes in that and it wasn't rotted and seemed to be working properly.
Hopefully tomorrow it will run properly and if not then I think I might have to take her in to the local marina because I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong..... Until then I'll keep posted.
Thanks again!

04OUTBACK
09-07-2007, 07:52 PM
I bet cap and rotor will help. Good luck. You seem to be pretty patient so far! Hope you get some quality riding time this weekend

Buttafewcoe
09-07-2007, 07:58 PM
Quite possibly. Before ever diving into the hard stuff, like carb rebuilding, I tend to look for the easy stuff first. I wouldn't say the easy stuff fixes the problem all the time, but I will give it a majority of the time vote.
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B

AaronWhitt82
09-09-2007, 01:30 PM
Alright guys well I finally found my damn problem. Yesterday when on the water I had my buddy check the secondaries to see if they were opening under full throttle. Well...... They WEREN'T for some reason. So I guess by checking everything on the carb. didn't really help considering I thought everything looked OK and thought they were working properly. I guess you can't tell until everything on the motor and carb. is running and working.
So I'm assuming I need a new Secondary diaphragm since the butterflies aren't opening at all? I think along with that I'm also going to replace the Accelerator pump diaphragm as well just to be safe.
I'm going to see if the local parts store will stock any of this and if so hoping to get it fixed sometime tomorrow and then I'll see what happens.....
Thanks again!

AaronWhitt82
09-10-2007, 02:12 PM
Well I thought I had my problem fixed with replacing the secondary diaphragm on the carb.... WRONG. Under full throttle again I checked the secondaries and the butterfly was opening correctly, but then again after 15-20 seconds the boat would totally lose power, bog, hesitate and come back to an idle with the motor still running. When the boat was bogging down I would pump the throttle to try and keep the acceleration up, but it would just hesitate and then come to an idle. After it would idle a few seconds I hit the throttle wide open again and after 15-20 seconds same problem.
It even got so bad later in the day yesterday the boat would start dying under any kind of acceleration and it was hard to get it started like it wasn't getting fuel. I would have to keep pumping the throttle to get her to start and after it started she would run a few minutes then die out. I would have to pump the throttle a bunch to get it started again and keep repeating the process, but I got lucky and just made it back to the boat launch when it wouldn't start back up at all.
Now I'm leaning towards another fuel filter, maybe fuel pump?, or just some sort of fuel problem somewhere where the carb isn't getting enough fuel.
Much help is appreciated once again,
Thanks guys!

Buttafewcoe
09-10-2007, 06:57 PM
I don't know about your '99 OB, but me '04 has an anti-siphon valve on the gas tank that gave a bit of problem the spring of '05. That was a booger to troubleshoot.
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Of course you've check for water in the gas, and such. And you have to believe everything you done so far, although hasn't fixed the problem, has been eliminated as a source of, and gives a certain sense of satisfaction that you shouldn't have to revisit those areas for a while.
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Try the fuel pump and new filter.
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Just trying to help
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B

AaronWhitt82
09-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Hey Thanks for the reply. I was just reading about this in the Indmar repair manual I just received in the mail. Where exactly is this anti-siphon valve located at? Is it in the fuel tank itself or is it in the rubber hose that connects to the fuel tank? The repair manual didn't really specify. I'm also going to check the Carter low pressure fuel pump to make sure it is working. Although I don't have the tool to see if the P.S.I. is correct on it, but just want to make sure it has power and that I can hear it working.
I know I've got to be getting closer to the problem now I hope!
Anymore input would greatly be appreciated.....
Thank You!

Buttafewcoe
09-10-2007, 07:45 PM
On my '04, it's the fitting that connects the fuel line at the gas tank to the pump.
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Removing the floor under the gull wing doors gives me access to it.
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B

AaronWhitt82
09-11-2007, 08:47 PM
OK so I checked the anti-siphon valve today and I poked a screw driver into it and it seems to be moving normally and it wasn't stuck closed so I think I can eliminate that.
I also disconnected the fuel line to the primary bowl on the carb. then bumped the motor over and plenty of fuel came out. Although I can't rule out the fuel pump as the problem because I don't know what P.S.I. it is putting out during full throttle.
I also took out the oil pressure safety switch that is located below the distributor. Does anyone know where I can get one at? I checked Discount Inboard Marine and couldn't find one there. Although I don't know if this is bad or not I am going to replace it anyway.
It looks like this:


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/AaronWhitt82/misc%20pics/GetAttachment.jpg

I also bought a new fuel filter today and installed that. Other than the fuel pump or the oil pressure switch I don't know what else to look for as I've checked everything accordingly described in the Indmar repair manual.
Thank You!

Buttafewcoe
09-12-2007, 06:00 AM
Autozone or Advance Auto Parts, or similar.
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Ignition control module working ok?
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Run it in the dark to see if the plug wires arc to the block somewhere?
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Coil?
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Jeez, not much left to check, right?
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B

AaronWhitt82
09-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Alright I ordered that sensor at Autozone as they didn't have one in stock. It will be here tomorrow. Was only $8. It ranges from 2.5lbs. to 12lbs of pressure so I hope this is correct.
As far as the plug wires go that would be a good idea to check at night or inspect the wires closely. I'm not sure about the ignition control module or the coil as I don't know how to check or test them, but I think they are OK as I'm still 99% sure its a lack of fuel issue.
If this sensor and new fuel filter don't do it I'm going to order a new fuel pump. My local parts guy said to order an Airtech pump and to stay away from Carter as they are nothing but problems and they quit stocking them so that gets me wondering about the one on the boat.
I think by the time this is all said and done I'm going to have about everything apart and put back together on the motor :lol:
Later

JesseC
09-12-2007, 06:32 PM
I just got off of the phone with my dad who agrees with you about it being fuel related. He is retired and lives on the lake....lucky guy!!! He said he has seen this before in a boat that sat for a while. He said you are taking the best approach to finding the problem. He also suggested you check the fuel pickup in the tank. I am not sure there even is a pickup??? Does the fuel line just come from the bottom of the tank or is there a screened pickup in there? He fixed a baot that had a metal one that had packed full of rust and kept loading up the fuel filters and buring out the fuel pumps! I would definately put a new fuel filter on with the new pump. When you replace the fuel filters, backflush them into a bowl and see what comes out. May hold a clue...water...oil you never know. Good luck!!!

I noticed in your original post that you mentioned coming onto plane, I wonder if there is a lot of water somewhere in the tank and when you come onto plane it is all settling near the pickup. I would syphon ALL of the gas out and start over with the new pump and filter. Pour some of the syphoned gas into a bowl, let it settle and you might get an interesting story from it!!

Also, are ther any fuel filters on the carbs themselves. i remember some old ones on my AMC jeeps that had lttle rock filters in the inlet lines????

AaronWhitt82
09-12-2007, 07:32 PM
I just got off of the phone with my dad who agrees with you about it being fuel related. He is retired and lives on the lake....lucky guy!!! He said he has seen this before in a boat that sat for a while. He said you are taking the best approach to finding the problem. He also suggested you check the fuel pickup in the tank. I am not sure there even is a pickup??? Does the fuel line just come from the bottom of the tank or is there a screened pickup in there? He fixed a baot that had a metal one that had packed full of rust and kept loading up the fuel filters and buring out the fuel pumps! I would definately put a new fuel filter on with the new pump. When you replace the fuel filters, backflush them into a bowl and see what comes out. May hold a clue...water...oil you never know. Good luck!!!

I noticed in your original post that you mentioned coming onto plane, I wonder if there is a lot of water somewhere in the tank and when you come onto plane it is all settling near the pickup. I would syphon ALL of the gas out and start over with the new pump and filter. Pour some of the syphoned gas into a bowl, let it settle and you might get an interesting story from it!!

Also, are ther any fuel filters on the carbs themselves. i remember some old ones on my AMC jeeps that had lttle rock filters in the inlet lines????

Hey I appreciate the reply Jesse
When I checked the anti-siphon valve the other day on the fuel tank I also checked a few other things on and around the tank itself. I noticed that there is some type of pickup or pump in the tank. Although I never did check it, I think I probably should now. It just looks like a pain to unscrew the gas tank straps and slide the tank out, but it will be worth it in the long run if thats the problem.
There is a ground wire, a power wire and another wire going to the pickup/pump. I'm also wondering if there is a filter on the pickup/pump that is maybe partially blocked or clogged? I couldn't see through the tank to tell if there was a fuel line going down into the tank or not but I'm assuming there is some sort of line that the fuel pickup would have to suck the gas into the line and then it goes outside the gas tank through the anti-siphon valve and then through the fuel line all the way up front to the fuel filter.
I have a 1/4 tank of gas left in it now so maybe I'll pull the tank tomorrow and take the pickup out and inspect a few things.
Although I'm pretty sure all the old gas is run out; I'm not sure if there is still possibly water in the tank?
As far as the filters in the carb. I have already taken those out of the primary and secondary lines and cleaned them so I can eliminate that.
I'll keep posted what I find in the tank when I get it out tomorrow!

AaronWhitt82
09-14-2007, 01:18 PM
Alright Jesse I did some research into the fuel tank....
There is no fuel pump or any kind of pickup that runs off power to suck up the gas. The only thing run off power is the float in the tank which would be for the gas guage... Hence the wires I found.


Here are a few pictures that might help for anyone who isn't familiar with the fuel tank.

Here is the float that sits in the fuel tank which has a power wire, ground wire and a green wire connected to it. This is what the fuel gauge reads off of and calculates how much fuel is in the tank if working properly.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/AaronWhitt82/misc%20pics/GetAttachment2.jpg

This is the tube that goes to the bottom of the tank and it has a screen on the bottom of the tube to avoid sucking up debris out of the tank.


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/AaronWhitt82/misc%20pics/GetAttachment-1.jpg

This is the screen on the bottom of the tube. When I checked mine it was clear of debris, but I could still see some debris here and there on the bottom of the tank

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/AaronWhitt82/misc%20pics/GetAttachment1.jpg

Also the sideview pic of the tube you can see the 90 degree fitting coming out of the top. That is where your anti-siphon valve screws into and then the fuel line goes on the end of that and runs all the way to the front to the fuel filter and then to the fuel pump and then into the carb.


Those of you not familiar with the anti-siphon valve here are some pics...


This is a sideview of it...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/AaronWhitt82/misc%20pics/GetAttachment4.jpg


If you look closely inside you can see the little ball which is the anti-siphon valve. Sometimes they get stuck and don't allow the proper amount of fuel to go through which can cause your boat not to run correctly.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/AaronWhitt82/misc%20pics/GetAttachment3.jpg


As far as everything on my boat... I still haven't found the problem yet. I will be installing a new Airtex fuel pump this afternoon and hoping this corrects the problem I've been having. I also installed the new Fuel Pump/Oil pressure safety switch yesterday. When I had the fuel tank apart yesterday I took a sample of fuel and let it settle.... No water could be found in it.
So if the pump and oil pressure switch doesn't do it then I give up and she's going to the Marina.....

Buttafewcoe
09-14-2007, 02:20 PM
With everything you've done to the fuel system, the only thing left is the ignition stuff.
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Hopefully, the fuel pump will fix.
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B

AaronWhitt82
09-15-2007, 09:18 PM
Well after installing the new fuel pump and the fuel pump/oil pressure safety switch and new fuel filter still no luck. I took the boat out today to test her out.
Problem is even worse now. Boat will idle fine and as soon as I would put it into gear and get a little over 1,000 R's after maybe 30 seconds it would bog and sputter and then die out. I would start it back up and rev it in neutral and it would run fine. I put it in gear again and hammer the throttle and 10 seconds later it bogs and sputters and dies out. So it would only run good just idling in gear below 1,000 R's.
Sounds to me like it has to be something inside the carb. I'm going to take it off tomorrow or Monday and have someone rebuild it for me. I'm pretty sure this is what it needs considering it is 8 years old and has never been done as I called the previous owner to check.

Also any of you guys with the carbed motors... What is the normal amount of turns OUT for the air/idle mixture screws? I think mine is around 2 - 2 1/2