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gadalar
12-08-2007, 12:24 AM
I see very few south florida members... Any concerns about salt water...?

bobwells
12-08-2007, 08:33 AM
Yes it "eats things"... I'm sure you are aware of this if you spend anytime around it, it is merciless on equipment. If thats your only option I would certainly do a major flushing and washing after EVERY use. If you have a choice I would run in freshwater only and leave the salt water for fishing boats that can be hosed down completely after each use, carpetless etc. just my opinion tho., there is alot of people run in it everyday, I just have to make my stuff last a loooonnnnggg time, cost too much to replace, have a super Christmas, bob

gadalar
12-08-2007, 11:36 AM
Thank you for the reply... I know it eats things, but unfortunately i have no choice... I have a searya now and it is carpetless... but its lasted me about 4 yrs... most of the problems i contribute to bad mechanics and the wash plan guys who do whose everything down. I do plan to take more personal care of my Moomba if i do decide to det it today.

After all, its going to cost me 4 times as much... But i already know what to look for in terms of taking care of it...

zegm
12-09-2007, 01:13 AM
I live in Panama City Florida and I own an older MasterCraft and a 25ft long Proline. I have never taken the MC into salt water and never intend too, luckily we live on a fresh water lake. I use my 25ft Proline to go fishing into the Gulf and I also design equipment for saltwater use as well. Salt water is merciless!!!! Not just on the boat but also the trailer. When I return from the Gulf in my big boat I actually put it in the lake to wash it down and to rinse out the motors. I would suggest you find a used boat and not put so much money into a new one. You also MUST get one with a fresh water cooling system! And if you plan to sell it be aware that it will not have the same value as one that has never seen salt water.

gadalar
12-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Thank You... Regarding the fresh water cooling system, my dealer is not recommending it... rather he is recommending the flush kit. Supposedly, the fresh water cooling system works but with the flush kit you get to take out the salt from all parts of the engine... please help!!!

Not sure what to do...

Buttafewcoe
12-09-2007, 02:27 PM
Is the dealer trying to sell you a boat they have in stock?
.
I think you want the closed cooling system in a salt-water application. Unless I've missed something, that extra measure of protection limits the effects it would have on the engine.
.
Hope this helps
.
B

zegm
12-09-2007, 02:37 PM
I had to walk away from the computer for a little bit after reading what your dealer told you. I guess I was in a state of shock? So it is better to let the salt water actually get inside the engine and then hopefully you can rinse out all of the salt??? A closed loop system would never allow salt in the engine and it is actually even better than what us lake water guys have since it will be using anti freeze instead of lake water!!! Take a trip down to the Marina and ask some of the guys with their big twin engine diesel sports fishing boats what they use! No way are they going to let salt water ruin their big expensive boat engines! Here is a link that helps explain why Marine Engines (salt water) use FWC systems. www.perfprotech.com/store/articles/fresh-water-cooling-benefits.aspx
I have to agree with Buttafuco that he is trying to unload some stock! If it were me I would be pissed that he thought he could pull this over on me!

gadalar
12-09-2007, 07:11 PM
Ok... i thought the same thing, but i still have a problem...

It is the only dealer in my area. Alos, i cannot have a trailer since where i live you cannot store it. And the bout will be in a dry stack marina, so if i go to a delaer far away... im stuck in terms of warranty issues and service, no?

Im a little dissaponted. I really do want to buy a Mobius LSV, i think you cannot beat the value.

Please read my other post 'NEW TO MOOMBA... Maybe'

Should i just forget about a Moomba living in Miami? Has anyone had experience with a dealer far away? Any way that I can have the factory step in and guarantee i won't have any problems in terms of warranty and service.... i guess not right?

zegm
12-09-2007, 07:39 PM
I live in Panama City and I am going to Atlanta to get my Moomba! I would call Skier Choice and speak about warranty issues.

gadalar
12-09-2007, 07:53 PM
will do... i will update when i talk to them...

Thank you for all the feedback... please keep it comming im very confused.

zegm
12-10-2007, 05:20 PM
I agree, you must feel comfortable with your dealer! Who knows what your local guy might tell you now since he has already mislead you to his own benefit. I don't understand why if he has a boat in stock that you like why he doesn't give you a price to install a FWC system unless its a factory only issue. I would drive to Orlando! The best place to learn about the dealers is from other guys like us on this post. I drove to Atlanta just to meet the dealer and they turned out to be Great People!!!

gadalar
12-10-2007, 09:07 PM
OK Guys... here is the update. I spoke to another dealer and he basically agreed on the fact the the FW cooling system is not absolutely necesary and that it is very hard for salt water (provided you flush the engine) to damage the engine block. Even w/ the FW cooling system you still need to flush the transmission and other components.

Additionaly i was also given good feedback from other deler about the deler i am in touch with. I was even told that if i wanted to look at an 07 closeout that they would be more than happy to offer some, but that if I was looking for an 08... they basically recommended to go with my local delaer.

Furthermore... i was also told not to worry about the delaer for engine issues since any Indmar delaer could eventually honor the engine warranty.

In short, it is now just a matter of final pricing, i believe I am in good enough hands.

Thank you for all the help. I also sent an email to Skiers Choice with all of my concerns and am awaiting a reply... will keep you updated.

zegm
12-11-2007, 12:47 AM
I am happy you feel better about your dealer. However, make sure to ask SC what their thoughts are about the FWC system. Or in other words why this is an option if the dealers don't think it is needed. I work as an engineer for the US Navy and I have to deal with salt water designs everyday! 316SS, 17-4PH, Nitronic 50 all good stainless steels that are used in every aspect of Marine design. One metal that is never used in salt water due to its corrosion issues is cast iron. Unless you are talking about the junk that comes on many trailers in the form of drum brakes which usually don't last a year. Now ask your dealer what that engine block is made from. There is no doubt that you are going to have to wash that boat off everytime you use it but a little extra protection is not a bad thing. My wife and I are debating the FWC option when we order a boat but my wife (the electrical engineer) says that this boat will NEVER see salt water so we aren't ordering it. Ok the ski boat will be hers and the Proline is mine.

gadalar
12-11-2007, 01:12 AM
I did ask them on email but still have not gotten an answer...

I appreciate all of this feedback, especially from someone with experience.

How would you relate your comments with my previous boat for example?... It ran on saltwater for 4 years. It is a mercruiser engine, that i really dont think is salt water specific.

As I understand it the FWC system only relates to the cooling of the engine block... right?

zegm
12-11-2007, 08:44 AM
I have a feeling that you really have your heart set on a boat for a good price. To relate to your previous experience I cannot say as I know nothing of the history of your maintenance or repairs. I know the issues I have with my big twin engine Proline. What it really comes down to is I have to do much more work after using this boat to remove salt water than I like. Would my 30 year old MasterCraft survived salt water NO. Without FWC system the incoming water cools the block, the tranny cooler and then the exhaust. It does not go into the transmission. With FWC you are cooling the block, I cannot be sure how they do the transmission cooler but the exhaust still gets salt water and the manifold risers will be the first thing to go. If you rinse the boat out and flush the engine everytime it Will be better than if you negelected doing this task. However over time this engine WILL have more corrosion than one with FWC. How will this effect you depends on how long you desire to keep the boat. Less than 5 years you might not notice it except for the manifolds. When it is time to sell the boat you will also find that it will have reduced value and might be harder to sell. Really you can go both ways and have a great time, but one way will lead to less money in your pocket in the long run.

gadalar
12-11-2007, 12:06 PM
Ok. Thanks again for the help... I really dont think i will keep the boat more than maybe 5 or 6 years... additionally i will have it on a wash plan that not only washes the boat every time I use it, but they flush the engine. With the Mobius i do plan to flush it personally as meny times as possible, but even if I do not use it the marina flushes the engine at least twice a week.

I think i feel confortable with the flush kit. All im waiting for is confirmation from Skiers Choice that Salt water does not void the warranty... I will keep you posted.

Thx.

moomba_armada
12-11-2007, 12:31 PM
Hello

I have an 2007 Outback V, my first powerboat. It stays at the dock during 4 months in the summer (just one summer till now though). It has a half system, closed cooling system for the block and a heat exchanger for the rest. I flush my engine and gelcoat EVERYTIME I run the boat. I donīt know how long it will stay fine but, why to take risks.
Salt does "eat" everything...but the only Iīve noticed is the corrosion of the metal parts, hinges, metal squads screws that fix to the floor of the boat (bilge emerging), and some rusty clamps and engine mounts..not really anything serious after first summer.
I do use WD 40 to spray a bit on to all these parts, and plan to use a product to passivate them all next season.
Carpet is perfect till now, and I donīt flush it often, just try that people donīt use shoes on board.
You have to keep in mind the zinc anodes for rudder and shaft, and change them every year.
Also the antifouling paint if you donīt want to be a running snails nursery...
I think it wouldnīt increase the price too much for SC to upgrade all the bolts, hinges and problematic parts to top quality INOX, at least for knowing salt water boat orders, I would pay for it pleased.
If anyone know any other helpful tips for saltwater, please, feel free to contact me.

Best regards for you lot.

JoeTechie
12-11-2007, 02:43 PM
This has been discussed many times here... but Larry from Indmar put it best:


Engine wise if you are going to use it more than 25% of the time in salt water, fresh water (closed system) cooling is a must. If the use is more occaisional you can get by with thorough flushing with fresh water after use. Install a Perko Flush Pro so you can hook a hose up directly to the engine ... I don't recommend a Fake-a-Lake ... they dont seal well over the water pickup and can suck air into the cooling water. The part of the engine, at least internally, that is most suscetible to damage is the intake manifold. It is made from aluminum and has a water crossover passage that will eventually have corrosion issues.

Externally, you have to wash the engine off with fresh water, especially unpainted parts like the motor and transmission mounts. After it dries, spray it with some anti-corrosion spray. WD 40 works ok but there are probably better anti-corrosion sprays out there.


Also read these very helpful posts:

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/viewtopic.php?t=3765

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/viewtopic.php?t=3300


You have been informed.

:)

-J

Engine Nut
12-11-2007, 09:33 PM
Thanks for posting that. It saved me from retyping it. The more I read through this thread, the more upsetI got. No dealer worth his "salt" would tell a customer it is OK to run a boat in salt water that doesn't have a fresh water cooling system. If it were me, I wouldn't buy anything but a salt water series engine. These engines are equipped with full fresh water cooling, top mount starters and lots of stanless steel and other corosion resistant materials.

Corrosion damage is not covered by Indmar's warranty.


This has been discussed many times here... but Larry from Indmar put it best:


Engine wise if you are going to use it more than 25% of the time in salt water, fresh water (closed system) cooling is a must. If the use is more occaisional you can get by with thorough flushing with fresh water after use. Install a Perko Flush Pro so you can hook a hose up directly to the engine ... I don't recommend a Fake-a-Lake ... they dont seal well over the water pickup and can suck air into the cooling water. The part of the engine, at least internally, that is most suscetible to damage is the intake manifold. It is made from aluminum and has a water crossover passage that will eventually have corrosion issues.

Externally, you have to wash the engine off with fresh water, especially unpainted parts like the motor and transmission mounts. After it dries, spray it with some anti-corrosion spray. WD 40 works ok but there are probably better anti-corrosion sprays out there.


Also read these very helpful posts:

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/viewtopic.php?t=3765

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/viewtopic.php?t=3300


You have been informed.

:)

-J

zegm
12-11-2007, 10:09 PM
Engine NuT! I was happy to see that someone else was sharing my pain and frustration. And I hope SC see's that the dealers are still more interested in making a dollar rather than being honest and caring about their customers. I hope that Gadalar gets his boat and for a good price but I hate to see him mislead.

moomba_armada
12-12-2007, 04:52 AM
Hmmmm...when I asked my dealer for a FULL system, he said it was not available...so I ordered the HALF system.
If I am right, the FULL system doesnīt run water into the engine at all, like cars.Just wondered how the engine cooled...or else what I believed it was a HALF system is what people call a FULL system...but now I have the Mastercraft catalogue and it does talk about FULL system.
Is there any place in the Moomba options page that talks about this option? I didnīt see it hence my dealer was not to blame...
What a mess :shock:
Anyway happy with the engine and the boat :D



Just checked the configuration order I did...it doesnt offers a FULL system.

gadalar
12-12-2007, 04:21 PM
OK guys... here is the down and dirty...

I spoke to SkiersChoice, the recommend the Salt Water Series Engine and the did confirm that Corrosion is not coverd in the warranty. They also mentioned that the Salt Water Series has the exact same warranty and that it also is not covered for corrosion.

I also placed a call to Indmar and spoke to a junior engeneer there. He mentioned that the 08 Assault 325 engine was different than previous years since it has a Cast Iron exahust manifold rather than Aluminum. He mentioned that even though salt will damage most metals, that Cast Iron is significantly more resistant than Aluminum.

Additionally they mentioned that the shaft on 08 boats is a dripless shaft, which pretty much means that there should not be any salt water in the bilge area regularly.

Indmar recommended that if we do buy the non salt water series engine, we should replace the bolts supporting the engine to Stainless Steel, and that that should be fairly simple to do. Apart form that anti corrossion spray as much as I can and an Flushing the engine EVERYTIME i use the bout should provide acceptable durabillity on th engine.

I asked about the Salt Water Series and Indmar said the following: If you get a Salt Water Series, try to ask for the Assault 325 rather than the Assault 340 since the 325 has the Cast Iron exahust manifold . Additionally he said that I couls also consider a half Cooling System on this particular boat.

sar
12-12-2007, 04:59 PM
Additionally they mentioned that the shaft on 08 boats is a dripless shaft, which pretty much means that there should not be any salt water in the bilge area regularly.

Except for the water that you will drag in after skiing, swimming, and boarding. I feel like the carpet would get nasty quickly - is there some way you could remoe the carpet and have finished fiberglass like the bow walkway has?

zegm
12-16-2007, 12:12 PM
Gadalar,

What did you finally decide to do? I have considered getting a FWC engine when I order an Outback V soon because even though I live on a freshwater lake the Gulf is less than 5 miles away and I thought it would be nice to watch the Fireworks or the Airshows in Panama City (St. Andrews Bay) without having to get the Big boat out and taking it. But again my wife who helps me clean the big boat after a day in the Gulf said NO!!! And in this house the Big Boat is my boat and the Ski boat is hers. She is the the life long ski fanatic having actually gone over the ski jump in her career. And I have yet to beat her on the course.