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cab13367
03-17-2008, 02:18 AM
I am getting ready to install a 10" subwoofer in my 2006 LSV, in the factory location. I plan to install it dead center in the driver's foot panel. One one pic that I saw in Pride and Joy, it looks like the factory installs it a little bit left of center. Does anyone know for sure if I can install it dead center? I don't want to start cutting a 10" hole only to find that there is something back there that would prevent a dead center placement.

Thanks,

Al

JesseC
03-17-2008, 09:49 AM
I do not have the newest LSV, but in the older one the steering cable and a lof of the harnesses run through a hole that is just to the right of the kickplate? Maybe the reason, but I am not sure. Can you lift the front bow cushion and look underneath and see the back of the kick plate or is it blocked off?

cab13367
03-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Jesse,

It's the same on my LSV - there is a hole on the right side on top on the kick panel that wiring harnesses go through. I cannot see the back of the kick panel from the bow storage as it's boxed in.

I guess it would depend on how much slack there is in the stereo and battery cables that run across where the subwoofer would go. I may have to do some splicing, worst case.

Thanks,

Al

davidl
03-17-2008, 03:42 PM
Al, Call the guys at Stereo King A call, they do the installs for Active. They put my sub in the center.
David

NCSUmoomba
03-17-2008, 06:22 PM
Are you using a free air subwoofer? In order to mount the sub the way a regular speaker is mounted requires a special sub. Free air subs aren't very loud either. I have a 10" sub in a sealed box firing down towards the floor and it sounds awesome, even with only 150 watts to it. Subwoofers need to be "loaded," which means they need to pe pointed at something dense so they will reverberate properly. My opinion? The factory mounting location is a bad choice and I would not reccommend it. Alos, that kick panel should be able to be unscrewed and come right off, then you can look behind it and see what is there.

tazz3069
03-17-2008, 07:34 PM
I purchased a sub encloser from www.audioformz.com. It fits just on the other side of the foot rest. I have installed a boston Acustic 10" sub in it. with a little packing, it sounds sick. I was also concerned about the wires. So instead of making a mistake, I purchased a sub encloser. I will post pics of it as soon as I down load it from my camera.

cab13367
03-17-2008, 07:56 PM
Al, Call the guys at Stereo King A call, they do the installs for Active. They put my sub in the center.
David
David,

Could you please post a pic that shows the full width of the kick panel?

Thanks,

Al


Are you using a free air subwoofer? In order to mount the sub the way a regular speaker is mounted requires a special sub. Free air subs aren't very loud either. I have a 10" sub in a sealed box firing down towards the floor and it sounds awesome, even with only 150 watts to it. Subwoofers need to be "loaded," which means they need to pe pointed at something dense so they will reverberate properly. My opinion? The factory mounting location is a bad choice and I would not reccommend it. Alos, that kick panel should be able to be unscrewed and come right off, then you can look behind it and see what is there.
NCSU,

I am using a Polk/MOMO MM2104 10" sub. I don't think it's a free air sub. The kick panel is boxed in and has a hole on top for the wiring harness so it's like a ported box. And mine does not have any screws that I can see that would allow it to be removed.


I purchased a sub encloser from www.audioformz.com. It fits just on the other side of the foot rest. I have installed a boston Acustic 10" sub in it. with a little packing, it sounds sick. I was also concerned about the wires. So instead of making a mistake, I purchased a sub encloser. I will post pics of it as soon as I down load it from my camera.
Tazz,

Thanks for the suggestion but I don't want to take up storage space under the bow when there is already a pre-made box for the sub (i.e., the kick panel). But please post the pic - I'd like to see how you placed it.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Al

tazz3069
03-17-2008, 07:57 PM
Cab--
Here are the pictures of the sub ecloser install. Please mind the dust. I just finished the install and need to clean up.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2570.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2567.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2552.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2551.jpg
This was the only clean way to install the sub without sacrificing messing up the foot rest. I really like the encloser. I works for me. Also, did I mention, the sound is awesome. I read your reply a little late. This section does not get used . It really does not take up any needed space. I still have plenty of room for the ropes, jackets, anchor, and so on.

tazz3069
03-17-2008, 08:02 PM
Cab--
Open your ski locker in the center. Look to the left (driver side). The battery cables come through that section. It is not really closed off. At least that is how it is on mine. And yes, it is true, you need a free air sub woofer in order for this application to work. If not, you need an sub encloser.

davidl
03-17-2008, 08:35 PM
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9710/lsvinterior009jn7.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lsvinterior009jn7.jpg)
I e-mailed you a few pics

cab13367
03-17-2008, 11:12 PM
Cab--
Open your ski locker in the center. Look to the left (driver side). The battery cables come through that section. It is not really closed off. At least that is how it is on mine. And yes, it is true, you need a free air sub woofer in order for this application to work. If not, you need an sub encloser.
Tazz,

Thanks. I stuck my head in the ski locker and looked toward's the driver's side and was able to see inside the ski locker. There are no obstructions that would prevent installation of the 10" sub but you are right - it certainly is not boxed in.

That enclosure looks good. Coul you have set it on top of the kick panel? Would there have been room?

So what makes a sub a "free air sub"? That is, how is it different than a regular sub?

David,

Thanks for the pics. Looks good.

Al

zabooda
03-17-2008, 11:45 PM
I was asking myself the same thing and found some definitions.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-4Wmzc2JUGLE/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_glossary.html

tazz3069
03-17-2008, 11:52 PM
Yes I could have placed it on top of the foot rest. I felt that it would fit better where I had placed it. The only thing is that you need to support it somehow from the back side.

Eric Z
03-18-2008, 12:39 PM
:D I sent you some pics of mine. I wish I could figure out how to put a pic on my profile now....

NCSUmoomba
03-24-2008, 09:28 PM
Yeah, I didn't think that panel was boxed in, mine is just flat, and the screws might be buried under that carpet, I am not sure, since mine is older, but that panel has to come out somehow. Climb under it from the bow seat up front and see if you can see anything from there. I know its a tight fit, but at least get a flashlight and your head under there. There might be some L brackets that need to be unscrewed to get the panel off. As far as free air subs, I think they also call them infinite baffle subs, or something like that, and in my opinion, they should rarely, if ever, be used. To create low frequency notes requires air movement. If you have ever held your hand over a sub box port while it is playing, you know what I am talking about. The key to clean, tight, bass notes is controling the amount of air moved over a given time interval, which is done by controlling the excursion of the subwoofer (how far in and out the speaker travels). If you have ever read the specs for a subwoofer, they list the size of enclosure required in volume or cubic feet. If it is a sealed enclosure for a 10" might be around 0.5ft3. For a ported enclosure it might be 1.0ft3, and it will also specify the diameter and the length of the port to be put in the box. This stuff is not guesswork. These specs are listed because that is the optimal setup for that particular sub. If you do not follow those reccommended specs, you can ruin the sub. For example, if you make the box too big (too much volume) the excursion of the speaker will exceed the designed limit and you will destroy the speaker, not to mention it will sound like crap. Also, each sub manufacturer makes their subs differently, designed for different enclosures. What this means is that Audioformz enclosure look nice, but you have to make sure that the enclosure size is within the range of the manufacturer. Now keep in mind the speaker has volume too, you will have to subtract the speaker volume from the sub box volume to get an accurate measurement. You can find the subs requirements and displacement volume in the instructions or on their website.

For an example, I have the spec sheet for the sub I took out of my boat (not loud enough) in front of me:

JL Audio 8W1-4 (8" sub, 4 ohms)
Reccommended enclosure: sealed 0.30ft3 (net internal volumes)
ported 0.75ft3 w/ a 2.5"i.d. x12.4" long port
speaker displacement: 0.025ft3

Now I believe that the only way to get a proper speaker enclosure is to build one to fit, I know that not everyone has the tools to do this, especially for a boat. So I would suggest first getting the specs for the speaker and then looking online at places like Crutchfield or Parts Express to find the best box to use and order that one. But remember, DO NOT sit it on the floor of the boat. These boxes are almost always made from MDF (medium density fiberboard) which is basically paper, so you have to raise it up off the floor to keep it dry or it will soak up water and puff up and come apart. That is the good thing about the Audioformz one, it looks to be ABS plastic or fiberglass. I just hope that it has thick walls. The reason they use MDF to build those boxes is beacuse it is very dense and rigid. If you have a flimsy box, the box will flex when the sound waves hit it and it will oscilate at the same frequency as the sound waves, just in the opposite direction, and what happens? The sound waves cancel each other out so your sound is diminished. Last, but not least, as I mentioned before, you must "load" the sub. It needs to be firing towards something dense, that will not oscilate very much,a nd close to it, like two or three inches away. The serves that same purpose that the box size does to control the excusion of the woofer as well as give the sound waves something to bounce off of and radiate into the boat. Also, a lot of low frequencies are felt more than heard, that means the sub needs something to transfer the sound enegy into.

I apologize for writing a book you guys, but I don't want to see you guys unhappy with your set up, or embarrassed out on the lake. I have a buddy with a 2006 Wakesetter VLX (man it throws a sick wake) and he has (4) 12" subs in that boat that were supposedly "professionally installed" and a pretty big amp pushing them, although I admit to not knowing how many watts of power. And to be perfectly honest, my one 10" sub in a sealed box that my buddy and I made, with only 150 watts of power to it, is louder than, and sounds much cleaner than, his four 12". And he lost a TON of storage space to fit those damn things in there. I am not trying to brag about my setup, I just want to illustrate how important it is to research and think and make good decisions when spending money like this. If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Good luck. Let me know if you have any more questions (although I am by no means an audio expert, I am just good at reading and following instructions).

tazz3069
03-24-2008, 11:01 PM
In regards to my sub encloser, it is an AudioFormz box. It is made out of fiberglass. I had to stuff the encloser with speaker stuffing (white cotton stuff). It took me a while to tune it in. First I put in way too much then too little. After several tries, I finally found the right combo. It does take alot of patience and a good ear for the bass. I am very happy with the performance.
As for your buddy with the 4-12" sub, I had a friend just like that. Paid a grip of money for a custom set-up. Went to the lake and it sounds like crap. he said that it sounded good in the shop. He never heard it out side the shop. I pulled mine out of the garage and had a listen. Like I said, I am very happy. I have heard the system with the free air sub. I really do not think that it gives you the hit out of an enclosed box. Now my box is not ported. It is solid thick fiberglass.

JoeTechie
03-25-2008, 01:38 AM
Let's see if I can help...

"Speakers" are a system of drivers (the thing with the cone and the magnet), crossovers, and enclosures.

Free-air drivers are able to produce lower frequencies, but with lower power required, but do not deliver high SPLs. (english: lower bass, but quieter)

Infinite baffle boxes are boxes without a box. A plank of wood is an infinte baffle box - thus the need for free-air drivers.

Sealed enclosures always produce the tighest base since they enhance the drivers built-in "rubber band" factor that keeps it snapping back. However getting the lowest frequencies is very difficult. (english: tighter, punchier, bust not as low bass)

Ported enclosures create a larger volume box, but with a loss of some punch - can create low frequencies, and still pack it with some force. (english: excellent mix of all frequencies - but very difficult to build well and tune)

Band-pass boxes are a sealed box inside a ported box. (english: amazing bass, but get a degree or a geek with good software to build it so it sounds right)

Adding "fluff" increases the drivers appearant box volume (inverse of what you would think) up to a point but with a slight damping factor as well - and never use cotton batting - use polly fill. cotton whisps + wood + electicity can be a bad thing. (english: see "Fire")

If it were as easy as throwing a speaker in a cube of wood, there would be no reason to ever ask a single question. It is not pop tarts.

Ask lots !


Hope this helps,

Joe

Reese350
03-25-2008, 08:22 AM
Thanks for the input, it is useful for me as well. I also have a 2006 LSV and just bought the JL 10" marine sub that I need to install before the ice thaws in MI.

On a different note, I notice a couple of you guys are in OR. I live in MI but I work in Lake Oswego, OR quite often and may even relocate. One of my biggest hangups about moving out is the waterskiing situation. I've grown up on lakes and I'm not to keen on rivers.

Where do you guys ski/board, how crowded is it, and how warm does the water get?

Thanks!

tazz3069
03-25-2008, 08:48 AM
Joe--
it is the poly fill that I used. I ordered it from crutchfield.com when I ordered my speakers(Polk Audio)

NCSUmoomba
03-25-2008, 09:21 AM
Spot on Joe. And since free air subs are not designed to work in a specific controlled volume, the design of them limits the excursion of the woofer, which limits sound. So it would take lots more power to a free air sub to get colse to the sound of a sealed or ported box. Of course given too much power, the sub will again tear itself apart.

Oh and one more thing about my buddy's Bu, he spent some money, his tower seakers are 4 wetsounds pro 80's, but his sub amp there is something up with it. He can only play it loud for like 5 or 10 minutes and his amp overheats and shuts down. His solution? Turn off the stereo, wrap a bag of ice in a towel and lay it on the amp. His amp and subs must be wired where the ohm load is way to low for that amp and he is burning it up. Oh well, more money than brains club...

jmvotto
03-25-2008, 09:30 AM
Tazz,

If you could get the kick panel apart, If there is room. Could you just mount the audio formz to the back of the kick panel, so you could have the "free air" look and Mount, with the sound of the sealed enclosure :D

JMV

Eric Z
03-25-2008, 10:46 AM
Oregon is a great place to live. Nice people and alot of lakes and rivers. I have hit alot of our lakes (Detroit, Devils, Green Peter, Foster,) All within a couple of hours from my house. The season is not quite as long but I plan to start hitting it in a month or so and go through October. My favorite place to board is on the Willamette River. Between Newberg and Wilsonville. Gets a little crowded on the weekends but still my favorite place to go. Depending on where you plan to live there will be a lake there. Central Oregon Has Billy Chinook and Prineville, Eugene also has some good lakes. If the only thing stopping you from moving is the lakes then you should move, we have alot of them. :D

cab13367
03-25-2008, 03:22 PM
Thanks for the input, it is useful for me as well. I also have a 2006 LSV and just bought the JL 10" marine sub that I need to install before the ice thaws in MI.

On a different note, I notice a couple of you guys are in OR. I live in MI but I work in Lake Oswego, OR quite often and may even relocate. One of my biggest hangups about moving out is the waterskiing situation. I've grown up on lakes and I'm not to keen on rivers.

Where do you guys ski/board, how crowded is it, and how warm does the water get?

Thanks!
Reese,

I also work in Lake Oswego, on Meadows Rd. Where is your office and what do you do?

Regarding boating up here, I think Eric Z summed it up pretty well. I moved here from Denver over a year ago and this is my first experience with boating on a river. I like it alot, especially if you go during the week. You hardly see any other boats, and when you do, you see their wake once and that's it. And you have miles and miles of glass and you never have to turn (unless your skier/boarder drops off).

Like Eric, I like the stretch of the Wilamette between Wilsonville and Newberg.

Al

tazz3069
03-25-2008, 03:50 PM
JM--
The kick panel doen not come apart. It is all fiberglassed in. The reason I chose the 10" encloser is because of the space. I almost went with the free air sub. Went to a local dealer that my Moomba Sales sent me too. I heard the system. Was not impressed. $3,500.00 and it did not sound good. I spent a third of that and mine rocks!! I can hardly wait to hit the water.. Like I said in one of my last post. I am still waiting for my custom tower speaker cans. I still have 4 Polk Momo speakers to install. Right now, I am just running 6 polk Audio in the cabin and 1 10" Boston Acustic sub. They are being powered by 1 Kicker MX 700.5 amp. The tower will be powered by the Kicker MX 350.4 amp.

cab13367
03-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Thank you to all those that chimed in on my original question. I still like the stock location versus any other options so I am going to attempt to make a sealed, properly sized enclosure out of the kick panel. I will cut a hole for the 10" sub then will attempt to cut trapezoidal pieces in just the right dimensions in order to seal off the left and right sides of the enclosure. I will make cutouts for the battery cables and will seal the "side panels" with caulk. I need to start with finding out if there is enough volume there to work with the 10" sub. I'll try to remember to take and post pics along the way.

Thanks again.

Al

jmvotto
03-25-2008, 08:05 PM
Tazz,

Thanks, I was lookin at the audio formz sub enclosure and wondered how fiberglass sounded, Guess they work. I had a bazooka double isobaric double tube once powered by a 200 w alpine in my honda and thougt i would lean the bazooka way, but the G3 with audio formz could sound great while tucked away. :D

cab13367, can't wat to see the pics, could be alot of work but i luv that idea if it can be sealed off properly.
8)

Reese350
03-25-2008, 11:58 PM
Cab, it's a small world. My office is also on Meadows. The Hilton Garden Inn is my home away from home.

It's good to hear there are some good options for boarding out here if we decide to move. We took the kids up to Hood River this weekend to watch the Kiteboarders. They fell in love with that and are itching to try it!

I look forward to seeing your pics because I'm getting ready to dig into the exact project.

cab13367
03-26-2008, 01:25 AM
Reese,

What do you do for a living that it brings you out here?

It might be a little while before I dig into this project. I took some rough measurements and it looks like the largest volume that I can seal off in the kick panel is about 0.42 CF whereas the recommended sealed enclosure volume for my 10" Polk/MOMO sub is .66 CF. So now I am contemplating building a 12x12x8 (interior volume) box and installing it on top of the kick panel. There should be enough room. Not exactly the look I as going for but it will give me the best sound quality.

Al

cab13367
03-26-2008, 02:10 AM
Hey Reese,

Check out pdxwake.com for more info and lots of good pics of riding on the river, including some good sequence pics. There are some good riders out here (me not being one of them :o).

Al

Reese350
03-26-2008, 09:02 AM
Cab, I work in the software industry for a company called Autodesk. We make design software (AutoCAD, Inventor, Revit, etc) that helps customers design, analyze, and simulate their products digitally. Our software is used by people in manufacturing, architecture, media/entertainment (movies and games), etc. It's a fun job and a great company.

What about you?

Thanks for pointing me to pdxwake, I'll check it out.

cab13367
03-26-2008, 03:22 PM
Sure, I know AutoDesk. We use AutoCAD here, just upgraded to 2008. We have a team of close to 20 drafters and technicians that use AutoCAD and Microstation. I work for Black & Veatch (bv.com) and one of our techs here use to be an AutoCAD trainer for Imaginit.

Yeah, do check out pdxwake. Someone on that board has a really good camera and takes some excellent sequence photos of inverts and such.

Al

Reese350
03-28-2008, 09:45 AM
Cab, thanks for being a customer. You'll have to swing by our office there on Meadows and check it out. It is the headquarters for our manufacturing team.

We'll have to connect for lunch sometime when I'm back out in LO. I brought the family with me this week and we drove to Astoria last night to drive down the coast today. Incredible views.

Scott

newty
03-31-2008, 03:05 AM
Cab I too am trying to figure out 2 kicker 10" L5 placements on my LSV. Ive deceided to build a box under the observer seat for one with a down facing enclosure. Haven't done any measurements yet but hope there is enough room to do a box ported toward the hull. The other will go under the drivers dash. Are you sure there is only .42 cf in the space where the factory mounts the sub? I thought it was bigger. Cutting trapezoid pieces and sliding them up under the ski hold is a great idea for sealing that area. I am planning to build a box that forms to the floor and the kick panel. hoping to have enough room for another ported enclosure. I really like to have a clean look in my boat I really don't want to have subs showing. I like the "sleeper" effect. Keep us posted on the project.
I'll post up when I start making build progress. Right now the boat is all pulled apart.

cab13367
06-23-2008, 02:32 PM
Newty,

Did you ever finish the sub install and can you please post pics. I've not started mine yet.

Thanks,

Al

jrich23
06-25-2008, 06:31 PM
Don't know if you guys care, but I have a Bazooka Tube with a 10" kicker comp inside, and it sounds awesome. About 350 watts going to it, and it fits snug between the battery location and under the front seat. I used the straps and screwed them down to the floor. Also the tube is made of plastic so a little water over the bow never hurts it. This was a simple solution for me, $150.00 later it sounds just as good as my buddy's custom setup.

jester
06-25-2008, 10:33 PM
Jrich23,

Can you please post some pic's. It would be nice to see.

Hillbilly
06-26-2008, 03:35 AM
Will a 12 not fit there? or just didnt think you needed it? I have 3 12 inch PP subs sitting around and would like to use them?

Hydrofoiljunky
06-27-2008, 10:34 AM
Cab I just finished putting a 08' Kicker L5 10" where we had talked about before, under the drivers side in the kickwell. I gotta say, the thing hits hard and sounds fantastic. I havn't even sealed off the final side (Ski Locker Side) and don't know if I will now after listening to it. When I measured that box I came up with almost 1 cubic feet of space. Kinda tricky cutting into that box because there are alot of wires in there :-) and I certainly was sweating bullets but I just took my time and drilled some starter holes into the corners to make sure I was going to be alright. I say go for it............. :-)


Hillbilly If you were referring to putting a 12 under the Drivers side, I don't think It will fit unless you make a custom box to go under there.

jester
06-27-2008, 02:04 PM
Hydrofoiljunky,

Can you post some Pic's. I like to see what people have done before i start making a mess of my boat.

Hydrofoiljunky
06-27-2008, 03:22 PM
Jester, I'll try and take some later today.........

Hydrofoiljunky
06-27-2008, 06:28 PM
Jester, I didn't take any photos of my process from start to finish just the finished product :-) I'm running I think It was 420 Watts to the L5 Sub and 185 to each Tower speaker. It sounds fantastic for the money I spent. I also included some pics of the Gator pad I installed around my boat to keep people from scratching the Gel Coat all up walking around and getting in and out of the boat. If anyone wants to know my secret spot to get the Kicker KMT6 Tower speakers for $189 Shipped to your door. Lemme know. They are not wetsounds but danggggg they sound fantastic for the money. They even have horn tweeters.......Anyways, I'm glad I'm finished with the boat for NOW, hopefully We can just enjoy the heck out of it.

Cost of Stereo:

Kicker ZX 700.5 amp $209 Ebay
Kicker Solobaric L5 10" $100 Ebay
Kicker Kmt6 Tower Speaks $189 (secret location)
Total cost of upgrade $497 Not bad......

Disgruntled old people at the docks frowning at me wanting me to turn it down..............Priceless

cab13367
06-29-2008, 02:49 PM
hydro,

I just finished installing mine as well. After I cut the hole, it was apparent that it was NOT going to be an easy task sealing the footbox. It's wide open to left (can look into it from the ski locker), there's the hole on top and to the right where all kinds of hoses and cables are routed through, plus there's a chase on the floor that comes up through the footbox. So I just went ahead and installed the sub (a 10" Polk/MOMO) and left the footbox as is. It definitely hits hard, but it's got a 'boomy" quality to it. I may at some point try to make a custom sealed enclosure and attach it in front of the footbox but it's fine for now.

Pics are below as well as a pic of the amp placement.

Someone asked if a 12" sub will fit. I think that you might be able to cut the required size hole for a 12" sub, but don't know if there is enough room for the "lip" of the sub. For sure, there's not enough room for a 12" grill.

Also, if you are going to do this, please stick your head into the ski locker and look towards the footbox to make sure that you won't accidentally cut any of the cables and hoses in there.

Al

Before pic:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_2686.jpg

After pics. Note that the subwoofer grill matches the cabin speaker grills.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_1000.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/polks.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/IMG_1056.jpg

Hydrofoiljunky
06-29-2008, 09:43 PM
Cab That looks great and I definately like the matching grills. It's nice to have a little thump thump in the boat :-) Just in time for 4th of July Take it easy

jmvotto
10-07-2008, 08:29 PM
Cab, how does the polk sound in that location. I am looking at that or a Bazooka 8" DVC tube mounted on top of the kick panel nonamplified. and how hard was it to cut the hole.

Thx
Joe

JohnB
10-07-2008, 09:29 PM
The hole? Easy to cut - just like the cables behind the wall. BE CAREFUL!

jmvotto
10-08-2008, 01:19 PM
johnB,

what do you recommend to cut the hole and do i remove the carpet first
utility knife
drywall saw
dremel with short bit
jig saw short bit
Star trek phaser


:?:

kaneboats
10-08-2008, 03:27 PM
jmv, how long have you been working on this thing?

jmvotto
10-08-2008, 03:57 PM
This has been a winterization project and i kinda like to over analyze things.

Just like this stupid stock market. Yikes....

cab13367
10-08-2008, 05:45 PM
Cab, how does the polk sound in that location. I am looking at that or a Bazooka 8" DVC tube mounted on top of the kick panel nonamplified. and how hard was it to cut the hole.

Thx
Joe

joe,

The bass is boomy, not tight. I may build a custom sealed enclosure over the winter. Hole was easy to cut - I used a jigsaw with a scroll blade. I covered the carpet with masking tape before marking the hole and cutting. Be sure to look behind it thru the ski locker to ensure cables are out of the way.

Al

danimal365
10-09-2008, 03:06 PM
How deep is the kick panel? I'm thinking of the JBL MPS1000. The sub has an intigrated amp and enclosure.

cab13367
10-09-2008, 11:08 PM
How deep is the kick panel? I'm thinking of the JBL MPS1000. The sub has an intigrated amp and enclosure.

I don't remember. Stick your head in the ski locker and look towards the footbox. You'll be able to see right into it and can measure the depth.

Al

jmvotto
10-10-2008, 09:54 PM
al,

would filling the hole behind the subwoofer with speaker poly fill help the boomyness or just a different sub.

Joe

jmvotto
10-11-2008, 08:37 PM
another dumb sub woofer question. what size does the OBV 06, 07 , 08 have in the kick panel. I just won a new polk MOMO 10" sub (like al's) on ebay and now that i am at the lake the kick panel seems to be only 10 inches tall . Yikes I think I am Screwed can anybody confirm or tell me what size sub came in the new OBV 08??? I am scrambling to get all my equipment in before the she goes to the dealer on the 21st for the winter.:(

cab13367
10-11-2008, 10:07 PM
al,

would filling the hole behind the subwoofer with speaker poly fill help the boomyness or just a different sub.

Joe
Joe,

I don't know. I thought poly fill has the effect of making a small enclosure act like a larger one. I think the boominess comes from the fact that the Polk/MOMO sub likes a sealed enclosure and the footbox is anything but.

My boat is a 2006 LSV and the 10" sub fits fine. A 12" sub definitely would not fit.

Not sure about an OBV though.

Al

lakesinclairmobius
11-05-2008, 02:37 PM
I placed my 12" subwoofer in the battery storage area opposite the driver side. Subwoofer's generally work best when they are NOT in a free air situation, in a box that's tuned for the subwoofer. The other thing to know about bass acoustics is that bass frequencies are not as directionally perceived as are higher frequencies, so it doesn't matter that you "see" the subwoofer to hear it. The natural resonance cavity of the battery storage area makes it a great place to further amplify the bass sound. I made a sound box out of 3/4 mdf and to waterproof it, I coated it with fiberglass epoxy (sans the glass strands), then covered it with black outdoor carpet (using rubber cement). This box fits nicely under the area (had to measure the height to ensure that the box with the sub sticking up cleared the panel that goes across the cavity and still met the volume requirement for the speaker box.

As an FYI, I hooked the 500 watt sub to a 450 watt Kenwood monoamp, running the bass control to the panel under the steering column. The monoamp is mounted to a similarly waterproofed and carpeted piece of mdf and leans up in the battery storage area.

I replaced the two factory tower speakers with 4 polk momo audioformz, wiring them to the factory supplied amp. I replaced 4 of the factory clunker speakers with 4 polk momo's (two in the bow and two aft) wired to the head unit. I unclipped the two remaining factory clunkers from the head unit but left them in the aft cutouts.

I added an ipod adapter to the kenwood to drive the ipod through as a cd changer and mounted an ipod holder to the sub amp board.

If I upgrade from here, it would be to add a second multichannel amp for the bow and aft speakers, adding two more polk momos aft, and eliminating the head unit as an amplifier (at loud volume levels, the head unit amp cuts out, by not using the amp section, just the preamp, I can drive the whole system louder).

jmvotto
11-07-2008, 05:13 PM
Well the October project is done and she is resting quietly in hibernation can't wait until may 7th. to hear this one. My installer says this is the best sounding system they have put in a moomba....:D(although we are in Western NY where FM radio is still really Cool)
Thanks to cab's input and the rest of the board help this solution fits.

Towers speakers polk db51 control by pac lc1
six interior polk db51's installed all by myself ( no pictures)
jl M6600 6 x75 rms with bass control next to ignition
10 inch polk Momo sub ( it fits hooray!)
dual battery with isolator

tower 1&2channel
cabin speaker 3& 4 channel
sub bridged 5& 6 channel

bow speakers off the HU with 150hz bass blockers

kaneboats
11-07-2008, 09:01 PM
Lookin' good, JMV! (Hopefully sounding good too!)

04OUTBACK
11-07-2008, 09:37 PM
NICE! So I guess you'll have to grab a couple of cold ones and go sit in it and listen to some music over the winter!:cool:

cab13367
11-07-2008, 10:46 PM
Joe,

Looks good! So does the sub sound "boomy"? Is your foot box sealed?

Al

jmvotto
11-08-2008, 06:48 AM
Al, I did not hear it yet, the dealer, who has the installer is about 90 miles away and now she is in winter rest. the young man who did the work and tuned the amp channels states that it is very tight but i will hear for myself in may 09. i can't wait and will let you know. we did talk about sealing the ski locker hole, but he stated it did not need it.
I am glad the sub fit, i was worried about that.:D

GoBucks
03-01-2009, 05:11 PM
cab...I did the same install on the sub and found that the wall is very thin. The screws rattle loose and I get a lot of rattle from the sub and areas around it. Did you have the same experience.
Also, on the location of the second amp. That also looks like a thin wall on the 06 LSV. I am scared to screw into it, but it doesn't look like you had a problem. What's the secret?

ABC
04-10-2009, 11:15 AM
Is there any reason why I should not remove (cut out) the entire kick pannel and put a sealed box in the same place? Would this create any structural issues? or is it only there for looks.

Hillbilly
04-10-2009, 01:24 PM
I was told and read here that it is cosmetic only. I'm going to have mine cut out and put a 12 at my feet. I would prefer a 10 but I have 3 12's I got in trade for my old boat and need to use at least 1.

What do ya think 3 12's in an Lsv lol....

jmvotto
05-12-2009, 11:06 AM
Al, You out there!

I got to hear the system and the bass does not sound boomy, its pretty punchy could be the JL amp being bridged. I do need to dial the gain a bit because it is somewhat overpowering. The rest of the system sounds great as well. :)

cab13367
10-14-2009, 02:04 AM
Hi Joe,

Sorry for the late post. I was off the board for a long time, have been trying to make up for it the last few weeks :)

Good to hear your system sounds good. Funny, I just scored a great deal on a JL M6600 new on EBay so we have very similar systems. I am running six Polk db651's in the cabin and 4 on the tower in aerial cans plus a 10" Polk/MOMO sub in the footbox. Only difference is that I have a separate amp running the sub. I plan to use the M6600 to power all 10 full range speakers. Will wire the 4 tower speakers parallel to channels 1&2, the 4 cabin speakers parallel to 3&4, and the 2 bow speakers to 5&6. My HU is an upgraded Kenwood with three sets of preouts and 4V input voltage so I've got plenty of signal strength and preouts and won't need an EQ. I am also going to try and get by with one battery for now - we'll see how that works out.

Can't wait to get it all hooked up. I still plan to seal that footbox - not sure how your sub sounds tight and mine boomy. I might try to run the sub off the M6600 to see if it's my sub amp, which is a cheap Boss but it's rated at 200W x2 rms @ 4ohms and I am running it bridged so it should have plenty of juice (says 1200W x1 bridged at 4 ohms but that's probably peak not rms). It does push the sub effortlessly so I don't think that's it.

Al

jmvotto
10-14-2009, 10:44 AM
Cool wait til you hear the JL ,order the bass control knob, that may help dial it in based on music type. You have the 06 lsv which may have a taller kick panel , which " may" cause some reverb.

I just ordered more aerial cans as well, they have the infinity 612m in them so i want to compare between the polk 651 for sound and loundness.

keep me posted.

Razzman
10-14-2009, 11:28 AM
One thing to remember is that even a non freeair sub in a freeair situation can sound decent if you adjust the amp correctly for conditions. Adjusting the amp/subs frequency limits is imperative to achieve this with the HU flat is a priority, then you can adjust the HU sub controls for optimum sound. Adding deadening material like Dynamat to the internal surfaces can help as well.

cab13367
10-14-2009, 03:17 PM
One thing to remember is that even a non freeair sub in a freeair situation can sound decent if you adjust the amp correctly for conditions. Adjusting the amp/subs frequency limits is imperative to achieve this with the HU flat is a priority, then you can adjust the HU sub controls for optimum sound. Adding deadening material like Dynamat to the internal surfaces can help as well.

razz,

It's been a year since I installed the sub but I did make sure that it's only receiving low frequencies and the frequency cut off that I used was consistent with the sub and lines up with where I have the high pass filter set for the full range speakers. The gain adjustment on the sub amp is good as well.

My HU EQ is flat and I do use the subwoofer volume control to adjust the sub volume for the music playing at the time. I will try the dynamat. What else is there?

cab13367
10-14-2009, 03:20 PM
cab...I did the same install on the sub and found that the wall is very thin. The screws rattle loose and I get a lot of rattle from the sub and areas around it. Did you have the same experience.
Also, on the location of the second amp. That also looks like a thin wall on the 06 LSV. I am scared to screw into it, but it doesn't look like you had a problem. What's the secret?

I don't have that problem. The screws are tight, no rattles.

If you are talking about the walkway wall on the passenger side, that is pretty thick. I removed the spotter seat backrest at the hinges then used a long C- clamp to measure the thickness. I don't remember now exactly what it was but I want to say it was at least an inch thick.

cab13367
10-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Is there any reason why I should not remove (cut out) the entire kick pannel and put a sealed box in the same place? Would this create any structural issues? or is it only there for looks.

That's exactly what Newty did. Search his posts to see lots of pics.