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cab13367
04-05-2008, 06:26 PM
All,

Total novice here. I am getting a head unit with 3 sets of preouts - front, rear, & sub. I have a separate amp for the sub plus a 4 channel amp for the 6 in-boat speakers. I don't have any tower speakers. My question is, how do I wire the 4 channel amp to drive the 6 in-boat speakers? Or do I drive 4 speakers with the amp and run the other 2 from the head unit's internal amp?

Thanks for any advice.

Al

04OUTBACK
04-05-2008, 09:53 PM
Al,
One thing to consider is volume control and fade...
Do you want the back 4 to be louder than front 2 and be able to fade front/back?
If this was setup you wanted, you could run front 2 off stereo and back 4 off amp..
does the amp have 2 pair RCA pre amps? If it does, then use both sets of inputs...you could pair the back 4 on the rear output of the amp and front 2 on front output..

cab13367
04-05-2008, 10:07 PM
Al,
does the amp have 2 pair RCA pre amps? If it does, then use both sets of inputs...you could pair the back 4 on the rear output of the amp and front 2 on front output..
Brad,

Yes, the amp does have two sets of RCA inputs. I was thinking of doing what you are suggesting but how would I wire the 4 back speakers to the two rear channels of the amp? Do I wire them in parallel or in series and why?

Al

04OUTBACK
04-05-2008, 10:32 PM
I'll have to defer on the parallel or series question. I have never been good on that one. I thought about that after I posted as I saw a post on WW that made me think of it.

Since you have 2 pair of RCA in and out, it would do it that way, but get some clarity on the parallel or series.. i have never understood the whole 4 ohms/2 ohms thing.. I have a BA in communications.... not anything too technical. :lol:

jmvotto
04-05-2008, 11:23 PM
Maybe this may help or just may confuse ya. It did me the first time through :oops:



http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html

tazz3069
04-06-2008, 10:24 AM
Cab-----
I have a simular setup. The only difference is that I have a 5 channel amp. In regards to the rear speakers, I wired them in seris. That way you can wire them to a single channel. Do this to both sets of rear speakers.
What type of amp are you running? I have the Kicker 700.5 amp. I can use one set of the RCA to run all six speakers. The amp works this way if you only use one set of the RCA. The other RCA, on the sme amp, is hooked up to the sub output. The system sound awesome. On my head unit, I have a third RCA output. That one will be hooked up to the second amp, which will be running the tower speakers. Hope this helps.

JesseC
04-06-2008, 12:12 PM
Cab-----
I have a simular setup. The only difference is that I have a 5 channel amp. In regards to the rear speakers, I wired them in seris.
Tazz by doing this you will have to turn the rear gains higher than the front ones. Wire them in parallel with the cables in a Y split at the speakers, still just single connection at the amps.

IF you are going to amp all of the speakers in the boat (4 in the rear and two in the bow) I would wire the rear four in PARALLEL and the Front two to their own channel. From the factory the rear speakers are wired in series and the front two have their own direct wires. To put there rear four in parallel is VERY simple.

Rear speakers:
On one side take both of them out, make sure that they are wired in series ( wire from the radio follow the path of + - + - so the wire sort of goes in a series of connections, so that is positive wire of radio goes to first positive of speaker the negative on that speaker hooks to the positive of the other and the negative of the other goes back to the radio)

To put in parrallel just hook as follows:
Positive from radio goes to positive of both speakers kind of in a Y pattern. THe other wire goes to the negatives of both speakers.

Parallel will increase the ohm load and cause the rear four speakers to pull more power than the front ones. So the rear speakers will pull a 2ohm load and the frone two will pull a 4ohm load.

Wiring in series requires gains on the amps to be turned much higher. I would rather go parallel and turn the gains down. In this configuration the four rear speakers will be a little louder than the front two which is what I wanted in my boat.

Just remember that if you lower the ohms, make sure you amp is stable for that ohm load. If you get too low the amo will overheat if it can not sustain a really low ohm load. Most quality amps are 2ohm stable.

JoeTechie
04-06-2008, 01:29 PM
I was just about to create a much geekier response, but Jessie's is excellent.

-Joe

tazz3069
04-06-2008, 01:42 PM
Jesse is the man. He helped me out last year with my system and tower lights. It great to have people like that as a member. Even though most of us never met, it like all of us have been friends for a long time. I love this place and my boat.

csmsk
04-06-2008, 07:45 PM
I wired my boat the exact same way Jesse explained. Parallel each set of rear speakers off the rear channels and run the fronts direct from the front channels.

I upgraded all the speakers to 6 1/2" Polk Momos and am pushing them with a 25th anniversary Kenwood Excellon 4 channel amp. I also installed a sub that I'm pushing with a Kicker 300.1. It sounds sweet, and I'm glad because I really didn't want to add tower speakers!

http://a341.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/85/l_bcad38fb13f7797285ef958e41819c2c.jpg

http://a97.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/21/l_d55d9e5b9ec5c4f925c22fb934989768.jpg

http://a161.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/53/l_e7f799949a55061cb919799fd296b4f8.jpg

http://a842.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_557852b7f842087cab2a14be3a07ee01.jpg

cab13367
04-06-2008, 08:05 PM
Jesse,

Thanks for the help. What you are proposing sounds good except that I have an older Sony amp (4 x 50 watts rms) and I don't think that it's 2 ohm stable. I know, I should really get a better amp but I already have this one and want to see if I can make it work before deciding to buy a new one.

So since my 4 channel amp is probably not 2 ohm stable, can you suggest a different way to wire up my 6 speakers?

Thanks,

Al

JesseC
04-07-2008, 12:20 AM
Al, could you post the actual model number of the amp that you are using? Another option may be to only amp the 4 rear speakers. The complaint I got in my boat was that the front speakers were way to loud and that was the reason for the parallel wiring change to the rear speakers. The front speakers are aimed at your face and the appear much louder than the 4 rear speakers that are aimed at your butt/lower back. Amping just the back four speakers may get you what you want. Post the model of the amp and we can go from there.

cab13367
04-07-2008, 12:32 AM
Jesse,

It's a Sony XM-450. Yeah, I was thinking of running the 4 rear speakers of the amp and then maybe running the front speakers of the head unit's internal amp. The Kenwood HU is rated 22watts x 4 - is it possible to bridge the internal amp to drive just the front speakers?

Thanks for the help.

Al

JesseC
04-07-2008, 01:07 AM
There is no way to safely alter the output of the head unit.

I could not find any data on your amp, but every review said it was a really strong clean amp! I would wire all six to the amp the way I previously mentioned and just monitor the amp the first few times out. If it tanks on you, you can pick up the Clarion amps pretty cheap off of ebay like Tazz said. I am running two of them, a four channel for the six boat speakers and a 2 channel for the tower. Going on three years with no issues. Your amp should be a "Nicer" model than mine and should handle the loads, but hard to say without reading the data. Sorry this last post wasn't a lot of help, good luck though.

cab13367
04-07-2008, 01:37 AM
Thanks Jesse. Where did you find reviews of the amp? I couldn't find any. If the amp is not 2 ohm stable, would it blow the fuse or would it just fry the amp?

There's a site that sells owner's manual for older gear and I can download one for this unit for $10. I might do that just to make sure.

Thanks again for the help.

Al

JesseC
04-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Running an amp at an ohm rate that is below the capabilities of the amp will cause the amp to run hotter than designed and shorten the life of the amp. It is really up to you how to wire the amp. It would not hurt to have an owners manual, but I wonder if you coul actually call Sony and ask them for the imformation. All you really want to know is the ohm rating in stereo mode. They should have that information in house.

cab13367
04-07-2008, 07:29 PM
Jesse,

Thanks for the suggestion. I e-mailed Sony and they got right back to me with a link to a pdf of the manual. Good news - the allowable speaker impedance is 2 - 8 ohms in stereo mode (4 - 8 ohms bridged)!

The only negative is that according to the manual, the input level adjustment range (I assume that's the gain) is from 0.2 to 2V whereas my head unit's pre-out signal is 4V. Is that okay? Just set it to max and forget about it?

Thanks,

Al

JesseC
04-07-2008, 11:06 PM
You got me here. Never had that issue! It seems like you would have to set your gains really low, I do not know if it will hurt or not???? I think you have finally asked a stereo question that I can not answer. Better call Sony back.

Buttafewcoe
04-08-2008, 04:50 AM
I don't think you'll be able to set it to max and get the desired sound quality @ the optimum volume level on the HU. Typically, the amp's overload protection circuit will kick in a lot sooner turned all the way up.
.
I would start at the 3/4ths wide open setting and see how long the amp stays on before shutting down (if it shuts down) and turn up the head unit so you are just below the level where you start getting distortion then go from there. If the amp has high / low pass filters, check the settings on those also.
.
Hope this helps
.
B

cab13367
04-08-2008, 01:09 PM
Jesse/Butta,

I just talked to Sony customer support and they tell me that I should not use the amp with a 4v pre-out signal. They claim it will fry the amp.

I guess I should start shopping for a new amp. Any recommendations for a budget priced, decent quality 4 channel amp that is 2 ohm stable and can accept a 4V pre-out signal?

Another alternative is to stick to my stock head unit which puts out a less than 2V pre-out signal. Problem is that it only has one set of full range pre-outs and my amp requires one set per channel. Can I split the signal output from the head unit and have it feed both sets of inputs on the amp? Would the amp just see half the voltage?

Thanks,

Al

04OUTBACK
04-08-2008, 02:19 PM
CAB,
one good option for using your current stereo is the clarion eq that has been mentioned on here before clarion EQS746 .. you can find them for $40-50 and have 3 pre outs.. front, rear and sub and allows you to blend vol levels...
I am thinking about one myself.. I have same factory stereo as you and split my rca to run my sub.. I want more control over boost on my sub and on balancing cockpit and tower speakers.
B

edit: Found this deal.. best price.. ordered me one..
http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=46994&c=0804Froogle&b=Clarion_EQS746

cab13367
04-08-2008, 06:01 PM
Brad,

Thanks for the suggestion. I checked out this EQ on Clarion's website and it has 7V pre-outs so that's worst still! My amp can only handle up to 2V. That EQ is a good way to go though if you only have one set of pre-outs.

Al

JesseC
04-08-2008, 10:43 PM
I am running the stock kenwood that came with the boat and I split the single set of rca between the two amps and have had no issues. Just depends on how far you want to take it.

cab13367
04-08-2008, 11:36 PM
Thanks Jesse. That's probably what I'll do. One set of preouts split to drive the four channels on the amp, driving the 6 in-boat speakers. Subwoofer preouts to the sub amp. Will use the third set of preouts on a third amp to drive tower speakers if I decide to add them in the future.

Al

byronkoz
04-09-2008, 02:18 PM
I just installed a clarion eq in my boat and it works great.
cab, if your interested I have a Profile AP1040 that I would let go pretty cheap? Great amp and 2 ohm stable but I just dont need it anymore. Heres a link, let me know if your interested I can give you more details about the condition of the amp.
http://www.profileusa.com/products_amps_ap.cfm

cab13367
04-09-2008, 07:57 PM
byron,

Sent you a PM.

Thanks,

Al

mvd
05-01-2008, 04:15 AM
I saw that this tread has some readers and posters that know a lot about speaker and ampfilier setup up so i post my question as a reply and hope that you experts can give me an answer

I have an 2007 moomba LSV with factory installed kenwood speakers, towerspeakers, subwoofer and kenwood ampfilier.

Is there an way i can only use the tower speakers when playing music. When playing music for the skieer or boarder behind the boat, the people in the boat alsmost get deaf. Thats because both boatspeakers as towerspeakers play at the same time and the skier need some more volume

Best way would be an switch or fader or is there an other way to set this up? Maybe us the fader ore balance of the radio? But how do is set this up on the ampfilier?

Martijn
Netherlands

tazz3069
05-01-2008, 09:08 AM
MVD--
There is a thread on here in regards to a volume control for the amp. I will try and find it.

tazz3069
05-01-2008, 09:18 AM
I found the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAC-Audio-LC-1-Signal-Controller_W0QQitemZ190207513495QQihZ009QQcategory Z50552QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trks idZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
Give this a try. If you wire this to the boat amp, you can sontrol the volume ther and leave the tower speakers full blast. I hope this helps.

mvd
05-01-2008, 09:51 AM
I found the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAC-Audio-LC-1-Signal-Controller_W0QQitemZ190207513495QQihZ009QQcategory Z50552QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trks idZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
Give this a try. If you wire this to the boat amp, you can sontrol the volume ther and leave the tower speakers full blast. I hope this helps.

Thanks,
\
But how do i connected this to the amp?

tazz3069
05-01-2008, 10:08 AM
You use the RCA jacks for this setup. I forgot to ask. Do you have two amps? If so, this will work. Connect this to the cab amp. You can lower the volume to the cab speakers while blasting the tower speakers.

mvd
05-01-2008, 10:11 AM
You use the RCA jacks for this setup. I forgot to ask. Do you have two amps? If so, this will work. Connect this to the cab amp. You can lower the volume to the cab speakers while blasting the tower speakers.

2 amps? I realy don't know? I got the factory installed Kenwood KAC-X542.

regards

tazz3069
05-01-2008, 11:48 PM
Look around for the amo. Check to see if you have two amps. If not, then this det up will not work. The other option is to poosibly get another amp for the tower. This way you can control the cab amp.

mvd
05-02-2008, 03:07 AM
Look around for the amo. Check to see if you have two amps. If not, then this det up will not work. The other option is to poosibly get another amp for the tower. This way you can control the cab amp.

Don't want to put another amp in.
And what about the balance or fader?
Can't i setup the amp that instead the fader of my radio is front/back its using tower/boat? Or incase the fader isn't an option i use the balance???

Buttafewcoe
05-02-2008, 05:29 AM
I have mine set up with the fader....put it to front the cabin speakers work, back for tower only, middle for throughout
.
hope this helps

mvd
05-02-2008, 08:11 AM
I have mine set up with the fader....put it to front the cabin speakers work, back for tower only, middle for throughout
.
hope this helps

Can you explain how i do it? Or do i have to experiment to find out?
thanks

tazz3069
05-02-2008, 09:03 AM
I have mine set up with the fader....put it to front the cabin speakers work, back for tower only, middle for throughout
.
hope this helps

Can you explain how i do it? Or do i have to experiment to find out?
thanks

Find the amp. see how the speaker wire are hooked up. I think what Buttafewcoe is sayin," Hook up the boat speakers to channel 1 on the wire terminals. Wire the tower speakers to channel 2 on the wire terminal." While doing this, when you use the fade control, on the radio, you can adjust how much noise comes out of your speakers. Channel 1 is normally your from speakers and channel 2 is your rear speakers. I hope this helps.

mvd
05-02-2008, 03:49 PM
Checked my setup today.

I have one amp that is connected to the towerspeakers and subwoofer.

The speakers in front and in the back of the boat are connected to the headunit with and kenwood connector. The amp is connected tru RCA connectors.

I don't think i can switch the speakers in the boatthat are connected to the headunit off??
I looked in the manual but can't find anything tot lower the volume except for the RCA connection.

What will be the solution???

My headunit is:
Kenwood KDC-232MR
My amp is:
Kenwood KAC-X542

tazz3069
05-05-2008, 12:22 AM
MVD--
Use the volume control that I was talking about. Just remember, the bass will be affected as well.

Sled491
05-06-2008, 02:16 AM
Say, while we're talking amps what do you guys think about those Alpine PDX with one channel @ 250 and 4 channels at 75 in one amp. Super compact size and very low heat. Priced at about $600 would save me about $200 on two seperate amps and a heck of lot eaisier for a rooky like me

byronkoz
05-06-2008, 11:10 AM
sled, not speaking from personal experiance but ive heard nothing but good things about the pdx line. I wouldnt pay that much for it though, you can get them on ebay or other places online for half that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2008-ALPINE-PDX-5-AMPLIFIER-5-CHANNEL-CAR-AUDIO-AMP_W0QQitemZ280223060241QQihZ018QQcategoryZ39739Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If space isnt too much of an issue id also look at the boston acoustice GT-50. Its has pretty much the same specs but at 12.6 volts instead.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-GT-50-5-CH-AMPLIFIER-NEW-GT50-AMP-2006_W0QQitemZ280223752113QQihZ018QQcategoryZ39739 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sled491
05-06-2008, 09:22 PM
How many volts is the Alpine, and what's the importance?

byronkoz
05-07-2008, 10:55 AM
I believe the alpine is rated at 14+ volts. The differance is when your sitting listening to music without the boat running your only seing 12.6 or so volts and with the motor running around 14. The Boston amps put out there rated power at 12.6 volts while the majority of other amps are doing there rated power at 14+. Im not sure exactly how much of a differance it is from 14-12.6 but from what ive read its quite a bit. Id bet that the Boston amp would do better overal power wise because of the 12.6 volt ratings.

Sled491
05-07-2008, 09:55 PM
OK, makes sense, thanks. I'll give the Boston A amp a closer look. But to be sure this idea of a single amp powering the sub and the cabin speakers is OK?

byronkoz
05-08-2008, 12:20 AM
sled, what sub do you have, how many watts rms? Whats the voice coil configuration on it? Going with just one amp is a good idea if it will power everything ok.

Sled491
05-08-2008, 01:24 AM
I'm going with the 10" Kenwood excelon.

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=excelon+subwoofer&i=113XW1000

byronkoz
05-08-2008, 11:47 AM
Well since your running a single 4 ohm sub id stick with the Alpine amp as it does 300 watts at 2 or 4 ohms on the sub channel. The Boston amp would have to be run at 2 ohms to get decent power to your sub witch cant be done with a single 4 ohm. Hope this helps.

Sled491
05-08-2008, 08:32 PM
Yep, clear as mud!

byronkoz
05-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Sorry sled I hope im not making it more confusing, just trying to help.

Sled491
05-09-2008, 08:54 PM
I was just trying to be funny, no worries, I'm pretty sure I understand better now than before, and if I need more help I gots no problems asking agian.

thanks