PDA

View Full Version : First trip out in the 05 XLV...mixed success



tlatoani
04-07-2008, 11:46 AM
So I figure I'll make use for the new forum for this since it is mostly surfing related...

I finally got to take out the XLV that I bought in December. I'm in central IL s, so it's not exactly summer. Yesterday was in the low 60s. Fortunately the lake is heated by a nuke plant, so we didn't even need wetsuits. Boat ran great and I got up on the board first try.

Anyway, I couldn't get much slack in the rope. We had the port and front tanks full, and the starboard mostly full. There were only 2 people in the boat, so that didn't help. I think I will upgrade the rear tanks-are these the correct ones?
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=11445&pdesc=Fly_High_Pro_X_Series_Fat_Sacs_ea_20_x_20_x_ 50_750_lbs&cname=Weight-Systems&aID=2G&merchID=1009&r=view

Obviously I would love to have them just plug right in. Is there any easy way that I could keep the old bags as well? I guess some kind of T or Y hose from one of the bags, and then having the old bags on the floor in the rear?

Any other tips? I could get a bit of slack if I cut up onto the wake and back down.

tlatoani
04-07-2008, 12:20 PM
Ok, I'll try draining the starboard one. Even with everything full it just barely gets the deck down to water level. I think we need a lot more weight.

Plenty of room in the XLV for more people :P

Jon J
04-07-2008, 01:13 PM
Wow Ed G, Nice work getting this WakeSurfing forumn set up!! I have been reading the Moomba forum since I bought my 07 Mobius LS last year but finally just recently took the time to register to post. Now there is a Wakesurfing forum I will be spending wall to much time on here.

Tlatoani - We (my family) got bit by the wakesurfing bug last year and spent the entire first season almost exclusively surfing. As you can imagine we enjoyed a lot of time experimenting with every set up possible to get 'the perfect curl'. From our experiance the key to a great curl is to get the boat to list (tip towards the side you're sufing). You can accomplish this easiest like Ed G mentioned (with an empty oposite side ballast). What gave us the best curl was to fill all the factory ballast and then add a fat sac or two to the side that you are surfing. The more weight the better (because your hull sits deeper and displaces more water) but you'll need to play with the position of that weight. We noticed that moving the weight forward gives the curl a longer pocket (but smaller) and moving it towards the back makes the curl bigger and steeper (but the pocket gets shorter). Hope that helps!

tlatoani
04-07-2008, 02:02 PM
Cool. How do you go about filling the extra sacs? Handheld pump? I'm just trying to figure out what I need to order.

Jon J
04-07-2008, 03:37 PM
I use the Tsunami pump that I bought with the sacs. They are around $100 and plug into the 12V power outlet. The best feature (aside from being very fast) is the quick connect couplings. It makes filling and draining easy and minimizes spilling (because you can cap a full sac very fast). You can get the Tsunami anwhere they sell fat sacs. I have bought sacs and pumps from wakeside.com and more recently from Larry Man from Freshairexhaust.com. Larry is a champion and very helpful. I bought an FAE from him this winter that I will be putting on my boat this spring. The Tsunami can fill or drain a 400# sac in approx 1-2 minutes.

I forgot to mention one other wierd thing I noticed and I've never seen mentioned on any forum when looking for that perfect curl....we really noticed that the curl is better in at least 10' of water depth. Our lake has some shallow sections and you can see the curl lose size and shape when when you get into them.

tlatoani
04-07-2008, 04:56 PM
I use the Tsunami pump that I bought with the sacs. They are around $100 and plug into the 12V power outlet. The best feature (aside from being very fast) is the quick connect couplings. It makes filling and draining easy and minimizes spilling (because you can cap a full sac very fast). You can get the Tsunami anwhere they sell fat sacs. I have bought sacs and pumps from wakeside.com and more recently from Larry Man from Freshairexhaust.com. Larry is a champion and very helpful. I bought an FAE from him this winter that I will be putting on my boat this spring. The Tsunami can fill or drain a 400# sac in approx 1-2 minutes.

I forgot to mention one other wierd thing I noticed and I've never seen mentioned on any forum when looking for that perfect curl....we really noticed that the curl is better in at least 10' of water depth. Our lake has some shallow sections and you can see the curl lose size and shape when when you get into them.

I have a FAE on order already from the wakeworld group buy. I didn't really notice fumes last night, but it was pretty windy.

I didn't really want to have to buy another pump. Anyone have ideas on tapping into one of the GG pumps/hoses?

04OUTBACK
04-07-2008, 08:52 PM
TL..
You could put a fitting on the extra cap on the fat sac ( the round one) and run a hose from it to your extra sac...
As far as emptying... you may have to sit on it to get it to back fill to the existing sack..
Or you could put a T in the in line and run line to other sac... but could have some filling issues if one got full before the other..

jmvotto
04-07-2008, 09:14 PM
I am a newbie to the idea. of wakesurfing

How do you get around the weight limitation of the boats with the authorities. if you put 1600 lbs in one corner and the max capacity is 1400 with two to three peope in the boat arent you over or i am i missing something
:?

surfdad
04-08-2008, 04:05 PM
Hey Ed, thanks for the invite. It's been a long time since I've been on the Moomba site and congrats on the wakesurfing forum! :)

I'm presuming the majority of folks don't know me, so a brief introduction is probably in order. I am the President of the American Wakesurf Association, we stage contests, work with the NWL in forming rules for said contests and also interact with a number of legislative bodies to prevent regulations that would curtail wakesurfing. Larry Mann of Trick Boardz and Fresh Air Exhaust is our Legislative Liasion officer.

I surround myself with other knowledgable folks that I can turn to for things just as this. I consider Ed Sullivan to be the consumate expert in all things ballast and boat related. Further, he collaborates with regulatory experts in preventing the outlaw of the sport and also in obtaining venues for contests. I expressed to Ed Sullivan that I wanted a legitimate response to this question, but I didn't want to encourage illegal operation of a boat.

Ed S's response (with slight edit) to me:

Jeff,

The ballast question seems to depend on the reader. The Coast Guard says that the capacity plate is for the passengers and equipment in the boat. I can make a claim that the ballast pump, hoses, fittings, and ballast tanks are equipement but the water is not equipement. Others trying
to ban onboard ballast systems can claim that the water is part of the equipment.

Organizations like Underwriters Laboratories test manufacturer capacity ratings. There is also a general Coast Guard length times beam to capacity formula. I havenít seen the formula in a while. What UL does is load the boat with weight equaling the capacity rating and then remove drain plugs. The boat has to retain some freeboard and must remain stable, i.e. it shouldnít flip over with modest disturbance.

Water entering the boat will not displace water ballast in ballast tanks. That is why I and others may claim that water is not equipement and does not count against the ballast limit. As Iím sure you know lead and other heavier than water ballast does not displace much water and they are not buoyant. Other types of ballast must be considered to be equipement. Only the equipment-weight of devices like the Wedge and Switch Blade should count against the equipment limit.

Now, arguing for the other side. People are buoyant, they float in water. People count against the capacity limit. If people weigh less than water and they count against the capacity rating then why shouldnít a tank of water do the same?

Most of the time we boat in fairly good conditions. On larger bodies of water weather can stir things up quickly. Ballast exceeding capacity ratings will make a boat less stable. Add vigorous waves and high
winds and you have a recipe for disaster.

As an organization I think we should not promote excessive ballast.

Now we have guys, like my "former self" and others, hiking out to get a strong list. Thatís not legal, youíre not even supposed to sit on the gunnels let alone hike out. I built the weight racks to accomplish
the same thing.

I think as an organization with a membership inclined to over-weight a boat that we should formally contact the Coast Guard and ask for the real answer. We may not like the answer but I think itís the responsible thing to do.

Regards,

Ed

So that is what our understanding of this situation is. I believe that after I finish with my tax season I will draft a letter that poses this question: does the water ballast count in determining the maximum weight of a vessel.

Ed G, thanks again so much for reminding me of the site and inviting me to post! Give our best to your lovely wife.

tlatoani
04-08-2008, 05:09 PM
This ^^^^ should maybe be in some kind of sticky FAQ post. Thanks for the info!

wake08
04-08-2008, 08:17 PM
Jeff,

I am glad to see you on the Moomba site. Between yourself, Ed and the new Wakesurf forum we will now have a wealth of knowledge. Keep up the good work guys...Thanks

Buttafewcoe
04-09-2008, 02:27 AM
The only times we've been hassled is when there is a lot of peeps in the boat. With only a couple, and the sacks full, we pretty much go un-noticed.
.
Hope this helps
.
B

jmvotto
04-09-2008, 01:25 PM
Wow, thats good stuff thanks Ed.

I guess i have a legitimate execuse for the 4 1/2 kegs of beer for rear ballast "ociffer its the flotation effect , really" JK :lol:

Seriously, graet info. :D