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View Full Version : FAE (Fresh Air Exhaust) Installation & Rides



MeachDog
08-19-2008, 03:30 PM
All,

I figured with the amount of people on here either just getting into or doing more of the wake surfing I'd put up some info on the FAE I just installed on our 07 Outback V!

First off, Larry at FAE is extremely helpful!

So total install time was approx 3 hours. Keep in mind that I measured and re-measured 3-4 times and took my time with each step, so most people would likely spend less time installing.

The instructions that came with the unit are clear and provide plenty of insight into what you would expect during installation. I know that Larry is also looking for photos from people and is making a video of the installation soon.

Once installed we took 'er out for our first session with it installed. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The noise reduction was amazing! I could tell the difference behind the boat as I never once smelled any exhaust! We spent 5 hours out on Saturday and 6 hours on Sunday and not one time did anyone complain about exhaust. I HIGHLY recommend the FAE!!

Here are a few pics of it installed. (note I havent installed the stainless steel covers on the all threads yet - Wanted to get out on the water!!) ;-)

One final note..I didnt notice any effect on the performance of the boat or wake.

Good luck and enjoy!

NLindellDC
08-19-2008, 05:14 PM
I just finished the install of my FAE on my 04 LSV also.....

I had much difficulty initially with the FAE coming off of the exhaust outlets. After many conversations with Larry and much trial and error, I finally realized that I had the all-threads too vertical and when I raised the FAE with them, it was putting a backward pull on the unit where it was attached to the exhaust outlet. (my fae came off two different times)....was a pain.

But finally last week I moved the all-threads to where they were slightly leaning towards the front of the boat at the top, and that took the backwards pressure off of the exhaust outlet and now I'm good.

I hope that makes sense, because I've spent a good 20 or 30 hours messing with mine until I finally got it right.

And, yes, now that I have it on right I love it! Very quiet and no CO!

jmvotto
08-19-2008, 05:34 PM
not to be a smart a$$ where does the CO go, I have been to the web site for FAE and still don'r understand totally. Does it disappate in the water, engine wash or just disperse back further behind the boat say 20 ft to 30ft behind the intended surfer??

Kelsey
08-19-2008, 08:32 PM
The FAE looks good. Nice work.

Not to rain on your parade but I noticed your rear straps attached to your swim platform. Are you sure that is strong enough? I only ask because there are a couple of threads here talking about swim platforms coming off.

sandm
08-19-2008, 08:57 PM
have ridden behind a buddies tige and noticed the smell of exhaust. I have never noticed it behind our boat, but am running the 340hp ext/cat motor, so the cats must really work. aside from cost, I can't figure out why more engines don't come with them. probably just a matter of time.

csmsk
08-19-2008, 09:36 PM
I could be wrong, but I was told by my dealer that from '08 on, all the SC boat engines will have the CAT, and you can't get one without it. Can anyone confirm this?

maxpower220
08-19-2008, 09:53 PM
not to be a smart a$$ where does the CO go, I have been to the web site for FAE and still don'r understand totally. Does it disappate in the water, engine wash or just disperse back further behind the boat say 20 ft to 30ft behind the intended surfer??

On the FAE website, they discuss this. According to their info, CO is 2.5% soluble in water. Meaning that it will combine with the O in the water and become CO2 (I am not sure how that helps). Then they claim by putting the exhaust behind the prop and forcing X times more water across the exhaust, that it (CO) all combines with the "free" O in the water. There are a few links on that site for studies which give actual numbers.

I finished my measurements and sent them off yesterday. Hopefully they will have it built in short order. My only concern looking at your unit is the angle up. I know that it must be there for the trim tab (wake plate) to work, but it doesn't seem like a good idea for the water in the exhaust to travel up to get out, especially at idle and slow speeds.

maxpower220
08-19-2008, 09:55 PM
I could be wrong, but I was told by my dealer that from '08 on, all the SC boat engines will have the CAT, and you can't get one without it. Can anyone confirm this?

My 08 (and most) do not have the CAT, every one delivered to CA does have the CAT.

csmsk
08-19-2008, 11:16 PM
Thanks for the clarification. That's where I'm at (CA), so it now makes sense why I was told that.

MeachDog
08-20-2008, 01:33 AM
I just finished the install of my FAE on my 04 LSV also.....

I had much difficulty initially with the FAE coming off of the exhaust outlets. After many conversations with Larry and much trial and error, I finally realized that I had the all-threads too vertical and when I raised the FAE with them, it was putting a backward pull on the unit where it was attached to the exhaust outlet. (my fae came off two different times)....was a pain.

But finally last week I moved the all-threads to where they were slightly leaning towards the front of the boat at the top, and that took the backwards pressure off of the exhaust outlet and now I'm good.

I hope that makes sense, because I've spent a good 20 or 30 hours messing with mine until I finally got it right.

And, yes, now that I have it on right I love it! Very quiet and no CO!

WOW, 30 hours! Thats a commitment! ;-)

One thing I was sure to check and re-check was leveling the FAE from side to side and front to back relative to the exhaust outlets. I may have gotten a bit lucky. I only had one nut come loose on the first run and that was above the left welded mounting tube. No movement of the FAE otherwise. I would imagine it's always a good idea to check all are tight before each session.

I plan to use the suggested medium strength thread lock on them. This should keep them from vibrating loose in the future. (Didnt have any during installation) I did make sure that I allowed 72 hours for the inserts to cure with Goop glue before continuing the installation. (Not needed for all installs).

-J

kjwahl
08-20-2008, 01:50 AM
I have 07 LSV and installed the FAE on it last year. I also like it. My chemistry is a little old, but 2.5% solubility is ok, but that means 97.5% goes back into the air. When we run ours you can see a "vapor" trail in the water a good 20 yards running back. So more likely the exhaust is in the prop wash and breaking the exhaust up into smaller bubbles that eventually disapate behind the surfer. When we are just sitting there floating with the kids jumping in you can still smell the exhaust and it still bubbles up underneath the platform as usual. Not that I am the most "green" person, otherwise why would I have such a fuel efficient water craft, but I always wondered what other chemicals from the exhaust are we putting into the water compared to the air.

moombabound
08-20-2008, 02:18 AM
Considering FAE. Recently, two family wakeboarding evolutions have brought me a step closer:
1. Superman style. One of the kids decided to lay on it (Hyperlite Broadcast), head toward boat, arms outstretched, even ropeless. Even wiggles onto his back (not ropeless) and rides it belly up. Had a blast. However, occurred to me this is likely not a far stretch from the highly dangerous teak surfing (though he says he didn't detect exhaust). So we basically banned the Superman style the weekend the notion was hatched.
2. Longer rope. i.e. 60'. Easy to do 360's and wide sweeping side-to-sides.
About 15 MPH. When centered behind the boat, I REALLY noticed the exhaust. (Perhaps even with FAE, the gases may release from the surface so may not be completely eliminated. Anyone with FAE surfing at 60' occassionally, pls provide feedback).

Only drawback is the reported installation struggles, though increasingly minimized through the information sharing by others here. 20-30 hours though...sheesh...with the season ending in September, think I'll wait until spring to see if the product or installation evolves.

PS (I see Centurion got clever with the Sideswipe Exhaust, exiting out the side of the boat at the flip of switch. They also launched a SURF edition. Attention SC).

tlatoani
08-21-2008, 02:35 AM
Mine has been a bit of a PITA on my XLV. It has come off several times now. I've doubled up the clamps, but that didnt seem to help. It's got quick-disconnects, so no all thread. It seems to be pretty darn level. I'm about ready to put a small round-head screw into the exhaust outlet to give the hose clamps a bit of something to hold onto.

Razzman
08-22-2008, 12:29 AM
Without over analyzing or creating more questions than neccessary, the FAE simply puts the CO down low in the prop wash and away from the surfer and back of boat, period. A nice side benefit is that it quiets the boat way down and makes it very nice inside. That's all it's supposed to do. Yes you'll still smell exhaust at idle.

If your's is coming off then call Dr. Larry and he will correct the issue before you add pieces or modify pieces. When installed correctly it will not come off or cause any issues so in essence it's not going to evolve or get and different i doubt as it's been this way since creation.

I seriously doubt for you green types that it's adding any additional harmfull residues that your boats don't already add.

As i have the 325 Assualt i'll be adding an FAE by next season as i smell exhaust at low speeds, although a lot less than my previous boats. But more than the FAE equipped ones i've been in. 2 cents worth ... ok maybe 10.

NLindellDC
08-22-2008, 12:24 PM
Mine has been a bit of a PITA on my XLV. It has come off several times now. I've doubled up the clamps, but that didnt seem to help. It's got quick-disconnects, so no all thread. It seems to be pretty darn level. I'm about ready to put a small round-head screw into the exhaust outlet to give the hose clamps a bit of something to hold onto.

Tlatoini.....

Please look at my post! I was having the same exact issues! As long as there is a backwards pull on the exhaust outlet, it WILL eventually come off.....it's just a matter of time!

And, yes, 20 to 30 hours is a ton to spend.....my wife was not happy either as she was helping me :) But keep in mind that I'm not a very handy person to begin with, but still!!!

Think of it this way......when you raise the FAE high enough (using the all-threads) to clear the wake plate, then the cylinders on the FAE itslef where the all-thread bolts go through are no longer vertical! They are tilting forward at the top. So I figure the all-threads should also be in that same angle (forward at the top). I did this and it fixed my issue!

tlatoani
08-23-2008, 01:13 PM
Tlatoini.....

Please look at my post! I was having the same exact issues! As long as there is a backwards pull on the exhaust outlet, it WILL eventually come off.....it's just a matter of time!

And, yes, 20 to 30 hours is a ton to spend.....my wife was not happy either as she was helping me :) But keep in mind that I'm not a very handy person to begin with, but still!!!

Think of it this way......when you raise the FAE high enough (using the all-threads) to clear the wake plate, then the cylinders on the FAE itslef where the all-thread bolts go through are no longer vertical! They are tilting forward at the top. So I figure the all-threads should also be in that same angle (forward at the top). I did this and it fixed my issue!

I get what you are saying, but with the quick disconnects it's not really adjustable. I had to cut steel tubes to be the vertical pieces. I'll see if I can get a little bit of play in them and drill some holes to make em longer. Thanks for the tip.

tlatoani
08-24-2008, 09:57 PM
So I figured out that the wakeplate hits the FAE. What can I do about it? I swear I checked before the first install...

NLindellDC
08-25-2008, 10:17 AM
I had the same problem initially......I left the all-threads too long at first. I'm not sure how the quick disconnect works, but you need to somehow use it to raise the FAE so that it doesn't touch the wakeplate (I left about a half inch clearance to be safe).

TrickBoardz
09-04-2008, 07:51 PM
When the Centers for Disease Control tested the FAE, they hypothesized that the propwash was turning the exhaust into micro bubbles. I agree with them. Initially we tested the CO levels back to where the propwash bubbles ended, about 120' behind the boat and our readings were always zero to very low. That's why we initially thought there was scrubbing occurring. Once we began testing even further back, we began to pick up low levels of CO, thus the micro bubble theory made sense. We are probably seeing some scrubbing of other gasses, and certainly particulate matter (soot).

FAE does not put anything into the water that hasn't already been done for almost a century by outboards and I/Os.

Supras and Moombas remain the hardest boat to install a FAE upon. We now make 2 additional FAE elbows just for Supra/Moomba. The biggest problem is the exhaust outlet on many of the Supra/Moombas. We recently sent a different exhaust outlet insert (3rd generation) to a customer and are waiting to hear back from them as to how well it installs and works.

If you have problems with your FAE, no matter what it is, contact us and we will work with you to fix it.

The FAE installation on a Supra/Moomba should run about 3 hours, or as one of my customers put it, "that is ___ number of beers".

We will be developing even better installation instructions during the off season. We appreciate the feedback (even problematic) from our customers as it tells us where we need to improve and what we need to include in the instructions. Also, if you haven't already, please send pictures.

Larry Mann
Fresh Air Exhaust

maxpower220
09-04-2008, 11:59 PM
Hey Larry!

By the way folks, Larry Mann donated an FAE system as a door prize to the Tampa Jamboree and a very happy Moomba owner went home with it!

e


I got the said FAE from the Tampa Jamboree in the mail today. I have started the installation and have documented each step in photos. I am leaving on vacation tomorrow, so the install will wait until I get home. I will be emailing the photos to Larry when I am complete, or if I have a problem. I will also post a few pics here on the forum.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the door prize.

kaneboats
09-05-2008, 02:03 AM
Nice work Paul. We'll have to keep the whole post for posterity.

Edit: You can tell it's an election year when people are throwing words like that around.

adsman
09-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Finally got my FAE installed and tested this weekend on my 07 LSV. First time out, the FAE came off of one of the ehaust outlets... but after some adjustments it stayed on good during outing #2. The jury is still out on whether or not it will continue to stay put...

Overall, I have been VERY HAPPY with the decrease in noise and toxic gases :)... This is a great product that I would recommend to anyone. Be prepared, you will need a small level of handyness on the install. With that here are some notes from my install experience, hope it will help some of you:

I second Ed's suggestion to get the stainless bolts. I too had binding issues with the all thread. Buy a variety before you even begin! (i still need to switch mine out)

I ended up trimming the rubber sleeve on the FAE that attaches to the exhaust flange at an angle. This allowed it to sit flush again the flange...

Even though some say take off the wakeplate to give you more room to work, I woud leave it on and all the way up so you know exactly how much room you have (you dont want that wakeplate hitting the FAE like me on my firts try!)

Im sure some of you guys have shops with plasma cutters and all kinds of cool things to cut metal... but all I had to cut the allthread and stainless sleeves was a hack saw... (note to self on your FIRST trip to the hardware store before you begin installation... buy fresh new blades for your hacksaw!)

I used a Forstner drill bit to countersink the bolt in the swim platform... worked very nice and clean. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-forstner-bit.htm

now that the FAE is done.... i need to come up with a new project....