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Razzman
12-04-2008, 06:11 PM
I just sold all six of the cabin Kenwoods, both TMA amps and the Kicker sub in the custom box to a buddy of mine for his '98 Nautique Super Sport. :)

I ordered the Polk MMC650's for the cabin which are due Monday. I've got a new Kicker zx650.4 amp at 120w rms X 4 channels for the tower JBL 6X9's. And i just ordered a Kicker zx700.5 amp to drive all 6 of the Polks with a D class amp included to run a Polk 12" sub that'll be custom installed in the kick panel.

I've got some ideas for this install that haven't been done so far that i've seen, we'll see if they pan out or not. :cool:

Now i have to tell the wife ... :p

jclay5
12-04-2008, 06:49 PM
I just sold all six of the cabin Kenwoods, both TMA amps and the Kicker sub in the custom box to a buddy of mine for his '98 Nautique Super Sport. :)

I ordered the Polk MMC650's for the cabin which are due Monday. I've got a new Kicker zx650.4 amp at 120w rms X 4 channels for the tower JBL 6X9's. And i just ordered a Kicker zx700.5 amp to drive all 6 of the Polks with a D class amp included to run a Polk 12" sub that'll be custom installed in the kick panel.

I've got some ideas for this install that haven't been done so far that i've seen, we'll see if they pan out or not. :cool:

Now i have to tell the wife ... :p

So thats 3 amps total right? just curious about the class d amp? I'm trying to decide if i want to use a 5 channel amp to run the cabin and the sub or if I just wanna get a 3rd amp.

Razzman
12-04-2008, 07:08 PM
So thats 3 amps total right? just curious about the class d amp? I'm trying to decide if i want to use a 5 channel amp to run the cabin and the sub or if I just wanna get a 3rd amp.

No it's 2 amps, the zx700.5 is a 4 channel class A/B with a dedicated class D amp for the fifth channel. The sweet deal here is that the Class D channel on the 700.5 is exactly like Kickers zx400.1 Class D amp. It's a killer setup that allows you to maximize space and less power drain. Because Moomba's have the batts up front you need all the space you can get.

Here's the specs for zx700.5;

Amplifier Type 5 Channels
RMS Power (4 ohms) 70 watts x 4 chan. + 210 watts x 1 chan.
RMS Power (2 ohms) 85 watts x 4 chan. + 420 watts x 1 chan.
RMS Power (1 ohm) Not Stable
Bridged RMS Power 130 watts x 2 chan. + 420 watts x 1 chan. (at 2 ohms)
Peak Power Output N/A
Min. Impedance Unbridged 2 ohms
Min. Impedance Bridged 4 ohms
THD @ Rated RMS Power 1%
Speaker Level Inputs Yes
Built-in Crossover Yes - LP/Full/HP
High-Pass Crossover 50 - 200Hz
Low-Pass Crossover 50 - 200Hz
Subsonic Filter N/A
Signal-to-Noise Ratio 95 dB
Channel Separation N/A
Bass Boost 0 - 18dB (subwoofer channel only)
Bass/Gain Remote Yes (for subwoofer channel only)
Fan Cooled N/A
Fuse Rating 30A x 3
Bass Boost Remote Control: 0 - 18dB at 40Hz
CEA-2006 Compliant
24dB per octave Crossover: Active at 50Hz - 200Hz, High Pass, Low Pass, or Full-Pass selectable
Dimensions: 20"L x 9 5/8"W x 2 1/8"H

jmvotto
12-04-2008, 09:20 PM
Razz, can't wait to see it.

I put the 10" in the kick panel (barely fit) but your kick panel is talller. I looked at the mx 700.5 kicker (awesome amps) I went with a 6 channel jl to really save space (one amp) . sounds like it will be a killer system good luck and can't wait to see the pics.

jclay5
12-04-2008, 09:53 PM
Razz,
What do you do with the other two speakers in the cabin? just hook them up to the head unit? This thread works out good for me b/c I've been trying to figure out the best way to do it this way for a while now.

Razzman
12-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Razz,
What do you do with the other two speakers in the cabin? just hook them up to the head unit? This thread works out good for me b/c I've been trying to figure out the best way to do it this way for a while now.

You wire the port (left two) cabin speakers together in parallel and hook them up to CH 1, do the same for the starboard cabin pair to CH 2. Then hook up the bow speakers to CHs 3 & 4. Your cabin four will be running at 2ohms and at a larger wattage but as long as your running a 2ohm stable amp and not pushing the wattage for your gear you'll be just fine.

That's the same method most shops use and most use it to run 4 tower speakers on a two channel amp.

jclay5
12-05-2008, 11:25 AM
Cool, now where can I get a slammin deal on that 5 channel kicker amp?

Razzman
12-05-2008, 02:23 PM
Right here, authorized Internet dealer so you have a warrenty. Mind you these are Factory Refurbs. I have talked with Kicker themselves and yes they are fully warrented by them.

Kicker ZX700.5 5 Channel Factory Refurbished Amplifier (http://search.stores.ebay.com/HiFi-Sound-Connection-Car-Audio__Car-Audio_Amplifiers_Multi-Channel_W0QQfcdZ2QQfciZ6QQfclZ3QQfmcZ1QQfromZR10QQ fsnZHiFiQ20SoundQ20ConnectionQ20CarQ20AudioQQfsooZ 1QQfsopZ1QQfsubZ3631129QQftsZ2QQlnsZ1QQsaselZ27162 071QQsofpZ0)

jclay5
12-05-2008, 02:25 PM
Cool, I'm all about factory refurbs... My Pioneer in dash nav in my car is a factory refurb and I've never had a problem.

Thanks for the info.

Razzman
12-05-2008, 02:44 PM
Cool, I'm all about factory refurbs... My Pioneer in dash nav in my car is a factory refurb and I've never had a problem.

Thanks for the info.

As am I, never had any probs with factory refurbs either. :D

csmsk
12-05-2008, 07:40 PM
That's where I got my two kicker zx300.1's. No problems. Great amps... Great price! I wired my six cabin speakers (polk mmc650 momo's) exactly as Razzman said to a four channel Kenwood amp. Sounds sweet!!!

ian ashton
12-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Right here, authorized Internet dealer so you have a warrenty. Mind you these are Factory Refurbs. I have talked with Kicker themselves and yes they are fully warrented by them.

Kicker ZX700.5 5 Channel Factory Refurbished Amplifier (http://search.stores.ebay.com/HiFi-Sound-Connection-Car-Audio__Car-Audio_Amplifiers_Multi-Channel_W0QQfcdZ2QQfciZ6QQfclZ3QQfmcZ1QQfromZR10QQ fsnZHiFiQ20SoundQ20ConnectionQ20CarQ20AudioQQfsooZ 1QQfsopZ1QQfsubZ3631129QQftsZ2QQlnsZ1QQsaselZ27162 071QQsofpZ0)

Thats exactly where I got my 700.5 - its been a great amp so far (all 100 hours!)

Regarding how to wire the in-cabin speakers. I wired the 4 in the main part of the boat each to their own channel of the amp, and I wired the 2 bow speakers to their own channel of the deck (unamplified). Just another way to do it.

Razzman
12-08-2008, 03:31 PM
Thats exactly where I got my 700.5 - its been a great amp so far (all 100 hours!)

Regarding how to wire the in-cabin speakers. I wired the 4 in the main part of the boat each to their own channel of the amp, and I wired the 2 bow speakers to their own channel of the deck (unamplified). Just another way to do it.

That's how my amp is wired now for the cabins, problem is the bow speaks are underpowered that way and almost useless at speed. Paralell wiring will set athe cabins at 85w each and 70w on the bow. Set the gain accordingly for the bows and you never have an issue. Besides i'm a power freak with the audio and am moving from 700 watts to 1400 watts total. :cool:

ian ashton
12-08-2008, 10:19 PM
I almost never have the bow cover off, and I use the fader to control the "gain" on the fronts (bow is front channel, cabin runs off rear).

Sled491
12-08-2008, 11:18 PM
this was my question as well. With most amps being set up for anything but a 6 speaker configuration. I like your plan Razzman. But with a 5 channel amp (keeping in mind I'm apperantly not the same power freak you are) how do you split it up. 1 channel for the sub and if you parrallel the cabins that would still leave two open channels, or are you saying that those would run the bow speakers. If so how does the amp know to run two channels a 2 ohm and 2 channels at 4 ohms.

Razzman
12-09-2008, 12:57 PM
With the Kicker ZX700.5 channels 1-2 & 3-4 are class AB amp'd. Channel 5 is a class D amp for the sub exclusively. So you would do it like so;

Channels 1 & 2 would drive the main cabin speakers which are wired in parallel at 2 ohms. So you'd have two speakers direct connected to each channel.

Channels 3 & 4 would each drive one (1) bow speaker at 4 ohm.

Channel 5 will drive your subwoofer directly at 4 ohm.

This method allows you to fade speakers front to rear on the head unit. Adding tower speakers would require an additional amp, in my case i'm adding the Kicker ZX650.4 to drive them at 120w rms @ 4 ohms.

Ideally you should add at least one PAC LC-1 switch to the tower amp so you can turn them up/down at will. I prefer to add one to each amp so i can fade the cabins or towers up/down to whatever degree i prefer. :D

Sled491
12-09-2008, 07:12 PM
Got it thanks. But stay handy in case I smell smoke!

Razzman
12-09-2008, 08:20 PM
Got it thanks. But stay handy in case I smell smoke!

No Problem! :p

Just remember one thing, the install is only as good as the components & wiring, so make sure you have the appropriate size wiring and cables to handle your increased power loads. I like to run 16ga for speakers, 12ga for subs, 8-4ga for amp power from dist blocks and lastly no less than 4ga from batt to dist block for amp power. Being as the amps and batts are so close on a moomba you can easily get away with the 4 & 8ga combo.

jclay5
12-10-2008, 07:42 PM
Is this speaker Polk/MOMO MM2104 designed to be mounted outside of a box? like in a kick panel? Also its by one get one free anyone wanna go in half? As I don't need two.

jmvotto
12-10-2008, 09:54 PM
jclay,

I found mine on ebay for 39.00 bucks brand new. it fits in the kick panel and sounds pretty good(so i am told by my installer) its in storage 90 miles away. Al has this sub in the kick panel as well. its made for a sealed enclosure but powerful enough for a "free air" install.

Ps I saw a JL M6600 new 6x75 watt amp for sale for 300.00 on wakeworld.(FYI) reatails for $500.00

mustangairchair
12-10-2008, 10:05 PM
i put two pyle plmra220 on a bourd that i covered ,on the left side of my battery and that gets the amps out of the way and not taking any room from front storage .

Sled491
12-10-2008, 10:26 PM
JC how much each?

jclay5
12-10-2008, 11:05 PM
JC how much each?

It's buy one get one for 149.99 plus shipping on crutchfield.com so half of that. Jmvotto just said he got one new for 39.99 off ebay so I'm going to check there first because that would be a better deal.

Sled491
12-11-2008, 08:57 AM
Sonic has them for 60.00 a pc.

Razzman
12-11-2008, 09:13 AM
Forgot to mention I also bought a Polk MM1024DVC 10" sub from this guy, Bill's Electronics (http://search.stores.ebay.com/Bills-Electronic-Gear_polk-subwoofer_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZBillQ27sQ20Elec tronicQ20GearQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsaselZ24416482QQsof pZ0) for $65. He has 8", 10", 12" & 15". I originally was going to go with 12" until i saw the minimum box size so i stayed with 10".

jclay5
12-11-2008, 11:10 AM
The only thing is now I am apprehensive about buying this sub because it is not designed to be installed free air. I know the 10" wetsounds is but its a lot more money. Does anyone know of a cheaper sub than the wetsounds that's designed to be installed free air, or is this polk going to work good?

I'm not looking for people to hear my bass all over the lake, but I would like it to rumble real nice in the boat and sound better than a factory installed sub.

Razzman
12-11-2008, 12:44 PM
jclay5, I'm not familiar with the '02 Mobius. How much leg room do you have in front of the driver?

jclay5
12-11-2008, 01:00 PM
a lot and it has a fully removable kick panel with room behind it.

jmvotto
12-11-2008, 01:38 PM
Jcaly, I had the same reservations about the polk and I had received lots of opinions. I think the optimum performance is in the custom sealed tuned box. ( if you are a fanatic about "high competition sound" then maybe the box is what you need) The key is the seperation of front waves from the rear waves within some type of enclosed area. I felt the kick panel wedge was "fairly" close to the size needed.

From the polk site "Optimized for high performance in small sealed enclosures but versatile enough to pound hard even in bandpass and vented enclosures Flat, deep bass with great extension as only Polk/MOMO can do it" www.polkaudio.com

Kicker, kenwood,and Jl are all free air Options just google them.

jclay5
12-11-2008, 02:30 PM
Thanks JM I think I might go with something different like a kicker because I want to mount it in my kick panel. I think it looks cool that way and I don't feel like messing with a box. So I guess I need to look into free air subs like you mentioned above.

jclay5
12-14-2008, 01:00 PM
Those of you that have subs installed when you get a chance can you post some pics.. I'm trying to decide how the heck I want to do this.

JM where did you find that Polk for 39.99? Was it an Ebay store?

ian ashton
12-14-2008, 07:33 PM
I have this one behind the 'spotter' seat in my Outback, I've got another that I'm going to put under the dash where everyone else seems to be mounting them; as soon as I get some time (probably won't be for a while; mortgage rates are low and thats keeping me very busy!) I plan on starting the install.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=1824&stc=1&d=1229297537

jclay5
12-14-2008, 07:45 PM
Are you going to use the same type of box for the drivers side? Also where did you get that box?

ian ashton
12-14-2008, 09:06 PM
Yea, the exact box. It is just the standard box directly from Kicker for this speaker. I'm really happy with the fit behind the seat and the sound is great!

jmvotto
12-14-2008, 09:17 PM
It was an individual unwinding new gear. the 60.00 seems right for dealer inventory on the www.

kaneboats
12-15-2008, 04:16 PM
. . . mortgage rates are low and thats keeping me very busy

Are houses selling around you or are people just refinancing to take advantage? I've been thinking about looking for a better rate.

jmvotto
12-15-2008, 07:33 PM
Kane, rates on the 15 year just dipped below 5% and 5.25% on the 30 year. around NY The treasury is going to buy rates down to 4.5% on the 30 year which will probably be the 1st quarter of 09.. then once they take hold rates will rise in the later half of 09.

Ian, In michigan must be alot of refi's. if the autos go out we are all in a world of hurt. lets hope not for the short term.

jclay, here is an ebay store i contemplated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-POLK-MOMO-MM2104DVC-10-Subwoofer-Dual-Voice-Coil_W0QQitemZ150240855329QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_S ubwoofers_Enclosures?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Razzman
12-15-2008, 08:16 PM
jclay, here is an ebay store i contemplated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-POLK-MOMO-MM2104DVC-10-Subwoofer-Dual-Voice-Coil_W0QQitemZ150240855329QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_S ubwoofers_Enclosures?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

That's whom i bought mine from last week. Currently i'm designing my box to fit the LSVs footwell. Here's the problem so far as i see it, foot space. The MM2104DVC requires a sealed .89cf box according to the specs. I talked with Polk on this and .75 is acceptable, no less. Free air is a no-no period. I want a vertical facade in front so it will look nice as well. we'll see what happens here. I also ordered the matching grill from Crutchfield as they are the only ones that seem to have it.

jmvotto
12-15-2008, 09:30 PM
Do two port like holes in the kick panel constitute "free air"??

someone calculated the box size to be approx. .79 cf but two holes.

jclay5
12-15-2008, 11:30 PM
That's whom i bought mine from last week. Currently i'm designing my box to fit the LSVs footwell. Here's the problem so far as i see it, foot space. The MM2104DVC requires a sealed .89cf box according to the specs. I talked with Polk on this and .75 is acceptable, no less. Free air is a no-no period. I want a vertical facade in front so it will look nice as well. we'll see what happens here. I also ordered the matching grill from Crutchfield as they are the only ones that seem to have it.

Ok I might be dumb.... but what does .89cf mean? cubic feet?

Razzman
12-16-2008, 01:03 AM
Ok I might be dumb.... but what does .89cf mean? cubic feet?

Exactly. Doesn't have to be exact but that's the magic number Polk wants to see. Here's a great audio site and their calculators; http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

Schneider
02-26-2009, 12:03 AM
Razz:
I have an 02 LSV and want to install a 10" in the kick plate area.
I'm only 5'10" and feel as though I could create a sealed enclosure between the kick-plate and my feet that meets the .75cf min. volume. If I am not mistaken, is this your plan as well. Have you built it yet??
I would love to see pics if you've got-em.

Also, I was thinking of an easier method. Take a look at the JL in the truck-box shown in the attachment. I have never seen anything like it. The box seems to be reversed. I was thinking of turning it upside down, sliding it up against the kick plate and fastening it down. It seems to be all there, with no custom box-building effort.

Am I missing something here??

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7416_JL+Audio+CS110RG-W1v2.html#

Razzman
02-26-2009, 10:08 AM
Your pretty much on the money, that's one of the designs i've come up with. I have a couple others i'm playing with as well. My current sub sits atop the footrest and fires directly at the side of the boat, probably best way as it disperses the sound around the boat. Still playing with ideas.

GoBucks
03-01-2009, 05:32 PM
My 06 LSV didn't come with a sub in the kickplate, so I cut the hole. Assumed this was solid wood, but found it was thin fiberglass. I get way too much rattle. I am looking for way to solidify the sub. Any suggestions? Also, my boat I am adding a second amp. I am thinking I will add a board to the inside wall next to the batteries. Anyone done this? what type of wood and adhesive would work for this application?

Schneider
03-12-2009, 02:14 AM
Ok....I bought the JL in the rear-firing "truck box." Sounds sweet with the Kicker zx700.5 and the 6-new polk db651's!
Fits in there quite nicely, turned upside-down. I'm still trying to iron out the best way to fasten it to the kick plate. Ok....it's never gonna be perfect like some of these custom boxes that i've seen on this board, but it was built and tuned by JL and sound very good. If placed in the center of the kick plate, it leaves a small amount of space on either side to sneak your feet by. I am 5-10" and do not think that the loss of leg room, even without sneaking your feet into the sides, is a big issue. I am also considering raising the box about 4-inches off the floor. Still rests nicely up against the kick plate and increases foot space a bit.

Razzman
03-12-2009, 11:10 AM
My 06 LSV didn't come with a sub in the kickplate, so I cut the hole. Assumed this was solid wood, but found it was thin fiberglass. I get way too much rattle. I am looking for way to solidify the sub. Any suggestions? Also, my boat I am adding a second amp. I am thinking I will add a board to the inside wall next to the batteries. Anyone done this? what type of wood and adhesive would work for this application?

Do a search for threads on user Newty, you'll see what he did to install in the footrest. While his solution may not be yours, you might get ideas.

Razzman
03-12-2009, 11:12 AM
Ok....I bought the JL in the rear-firing "truck box." Sounds sweet with the Kicker zx700.5 and the 6-new polk db651's!
Fits in there quite nicely, turned upside-down. I'm still trying to iron out the best way to fasten it to the kick plate. Ok....it's never gonna be perfect like some of these custom boxes that i've seen on this board, but it was built and tuned by JL and sound very good. If placed in the center of the kick plate, it leaves a small amount of space on either side to sneak your feet by. I am 5-10" and do not think that the loss of leg room, even without sneaking your feet into the sides, is a big issue. I am also considering raising the box about 4-inches off the floor. Still rests nicely up against the kick plate and increases foot space a bit.

It's heavy and it's going to move so i'd either attach screws through the sub opening in the back of box into the footrest or use some L-angle brackets or such.

Schneider
03-19-2009, 01:22 AM
OK...
So its upside-down and backwards and I meant to do it that way :-?
Removed the woofer and fastened it with 5-lag bolts to the kick plate. Replaced the woofer in upright position as it was upside down otherwise. Fastened a custom fit block between the floor and the JL-box for additional vertical support. You're right Razz, it is a heavy box, especially when your hitting some rollers. I think it's in there pretty good and it was pretty easy. Still sounds sweet. Done for now :D
Thanks for the feedback!

See the box I used here:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7416_JL+Audio+CS110RG-W1v2.html

Razzman
03-19-2009, 09:54 AM
There ya go! I had one secured in one of my old boats via a HD rubber bungee, worked just fine! You might want to put a grill on that sucker if your "dogs" are that close! :p