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tazz3069
05-18-2009, 09:00 PM
For those who plan and changing their pumps or the flow of the water in the valves, here is some news. I tried several things but nothing worked. First of all I was on the lake when I did this test. Even with my 1200gph pumps and stock valves, the water trickled out. Bummer!!!! Now I removed the spring, as suggested here on the site. The water was flowing. Great right. Not really. With the boat floating in the water, the spring out, and the pumps off, the water was still flowing through the valve. Now a better test. Still with the springs out, i was driving at 20 mph and the bags filled up by them self. I drained the bags and put the spring back in. The bags did not fill. I do not know what to do any more. My dealer told me that it will cost $2000.00 to retro my boat to the new system. Do not really want to spend that money especially if I have already done all the work. I have 3 intakes with 3 pumps for all the bags. One pump per bag. Really frustrated. Please help
Tazz

sandm
05-18-2009, 10:02 PM
I wouldn't think that there's any advantage to going to a single pump per bag unless the factory pump isn't supplying enough flow to max out the 3valve setup, which I would suspect it is doing just fine. removing the springs just means that the valves can't stay closed with pressure on them, as when the solenoids are off(no fill), the solenoid relies on the spring to keep them closed.
the benefits to your system would be to upgrade to larger valves and 1" line I would think.
so there was some talk about irrigator valves that use the solenoid to keep it closed and were an upgrade in commercial systems.
any thoughts on that one?
next question would be, since you are now 3pumps, how do mastercraft boats or nautique boats fill, since I believe they are 3pump systems as well, or what keeps the factory moomba/supra 3pump systems from filling while riding?

don't know the answers, but think that searching in some of these directions might hold the answers?

tazz3069
05-18-2009, 10:14 PM
I do know that they are using the Jabsco reversable pump. There are three pumps in the 09' boats. I did find a different valve that is not used for irrigation. I only ordered one of these. i will get it installed and test it again on the water. Or maybe test it in the drive way with a fake lake system. Well see. Not getting my hopes up.

sandm
05-18-2009, 10:20 PM
interesting on the jabsco. makes sense. I think it was nautique that uses pumps mounted up high in the engine compartment. maybe they use a valve that would work?

tazz3069
05-18-2009, 10:26 PM
The jabsco pumps(reversible) have a built it diaphragm in them. I went to a web sight and saw a parts list. There is a diaphragm that keeps the water from the opposite way unless the pump is astive.

sandm
05-18-2009, 10:28 PM
oh.
well, you can always use the system you have until the new valve comes in and you have a chance to try it. just open/close the valves on the bottom of the boat when you fill it up. kind of a pita, but better than not using the boat for a whole weekend.

keep us posted on the new valves..

tazz3069
05-18-2009, 10:35 PM
I have other issues with the boat right now. Can get it looked at until next Wednesday.

moombadaze
05-19-2009, 07:28 AM
Tazz, electronic ball valve sounds like what might work after the pumps, I've been looking for one but havent found one yet.

tazz3069
05-19-2009, 09:18 AM
I had found some but they are very expensive. I found a different type of vlave. This valve does not use a spring. It has a plunger. I ordered one on Monday. When It get here, I will install it and test it with water pressure. The true test will be while sitting in the water. The Lake is about 45 min away from me. I think it is worth the drive to test the new valve. If it works with the Tsunami 1200gph pump that I have, then I will order two more. If everything work great, I will post my finding and were to buy when the test is over.

JesseC
05-19-2009, 10:58 PM
Tazz,
I hate to hear all of the trouble you are having. I am still waiting to try my new irrotrol valves. You may want to go get one of the 3/4" models and give it a try. I think they were around $30 a piece wheras the 1" were around $60. I have not lake tested mine yet, but should be on the water next weekend. This weekend I have to work and it looks like it is going to rain all weekend anyway. I was very impressed with my bench test using the new valves, that amount of water they flow is grately increased. It may be worth the $30 and a quick test, I went with the 3/4" ones without the flow control.

Here is what they were:

http://www.irritrol.com/valves/valves_700s.html

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/valvedesign.jpg

tazz3069
05-19-2009, 11:17 PM
As a matter of fact, I do have the Irritrol valve. I have the conventional valve. My 1200gph pumps do not produce enough pressure to open or push up on the diaphragm to let the water through. Now when I took the spring out, the water flowed like a champ when the pump was on. Now on the sown side, the water still flowed even when the pump was off. I ordered a different type of valve without a spring. It has a plunger and it is a low pressure valve. I hope it works if not, I hope your system works. I am running out of ideas.

this is the one that I used
http://www.irritrol.com/valves/valves_205s.html

JesseC
05-19-2009, 11:22 PM
Do you have the flow through irritrol valve or just the conventional one. There is no spring in the 700 series above the close mechanism. There is a tiny spring on the arm that keeps it closed, but it can be overcome with very minimal pressure when the electro-magnet is engaged. In the pic above is the 1" with flow control that does have the spring, in the 3/4" there is not one and I had great success with the bench test and 2000gph pump opening three of them. With the pump running and the valves off, not water cam through, but I sill need to test just riding around to make sure they do not have a syphon effect. Good luck with the new valve.

tazz3069
05-19-2009, 11:26 PM
The 3/4" sounds better than the 1" I did change all the intake scoops to 1" though. I guess if your valve works I can use a 1" to 3/4" reducing bushing to make it work. Let me know when you water test the boat. I would really like to see the outcome of the test.
Mark

etang789
05-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Tazz,
I hate to hear all of the trouble you are having. I am still waiting to try my new irrotrol valves. You may want to go get one of the 3/4" models and give it a try. I think they were around $30 a piece wheras the 1" were around $60. I have not lake tested mine yet, but should be on the water next weekend. This weekend I have to work and it looks like it is going to rain all weekend anyway. I was very impressed with my bench test using the new valves, that amount of water they flow is grately increased. It may be worth the $30 and a quick test, I went with the 3/4" ones without the flow control.

Here is what they were:

http://www.irritrol.com/valves/valves_700s.html

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/StarkRaven/valvedesign.jpg

so this part IR-700B-75 - Irritrol 700 Series (UltraFlow®) 0.75" plastic models a direct replacement for my stock 2004 LSV ballast? because I cannot find the stock Orbit 3/4"FPT Auto Inline Valve P/N 57203 replacement anywhere!

tazz3069
05-19-2009, 11:39 PM
etang--
These valves are to replace the existing valves. These valves let the water flow alot more than the old valves. this will improve the fill time of the ballast bags.

etang789
05-19-2009, 11:50 PM
etang--
These valves are to replace the existing valves. These valves let the water flow alot more than the old valves. this will improve the fill time of the ballast bags.

Thanks a lot will order them right away!

etang789
05-20-2009, 04:11 AM
OK just ordered 3 IR-700B-75 from sprinklerwharehouse.com

lets see what happens! Hope they work since one of my orginal valve is broken!

Cant wait!

tazz3069
05-20-2009, 10:35 AM
Cool Remember, we are still in the testing phase of these valves. Jesse found these valves and will be Lake testing when weather permits. I will be testing a diferent style when I get it. When you get yours and lake test it, post the results for all of us. These sprinkler valves are the biggest joke in the world. I wish that I had the money to buy an 09' just for the ballast system. It would make all of our lives easier. Good luck and post your results.
Tazz

etang789
05-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Cool Remember, we are still in the testing phase of these valves. Jesse found these valves and will be Lake testing when weather permits. I will be testing a diferent style when I get it. When you get yours and lake test it, post the results for all of us. These sprinkler valves are the biggest joke in the world. I wish that I had the money to buy an 09' just for the ballast system. It would make all of our lives easier. Good luck and post your results.
Tazz

What do you mean by lake testing it? If it works the same as the Orbit valves everything should be fine no?

Im trusting you guys on this Im ordering these valves and shipping them all the way to Hong Kong!

tazz3069
05-20-2009, 05:49 PM
That means when the boat is in the water. With the pumps off, we need to see if any water comes through the valves both when the boat is in motion and when it is just sitting there. The second test is turn on the pump. See how much water comes out of the valve. Right now, with our current valves (sprinkler valves) the water that comes out is not that great.

JesseC
05-20-2009, 06:58 PM
What do you mean by lake testing it? If it works the same as the Orbit valves everything should be fine no?

Im trusting you guys on this Im ordering these valves and shipping them all the way to Hong Kong!

Wow, I am surprised that you had them sent that far!!! Tazz is right, none of these valves we have been discussing have been tested in the water. I am hoping that the low pressure of simply driving the boat does not start some type of syphon effect where you can not stop the ballast from filling. I have only tested my valves in the driveway on a make shift saw horse test. What size pump are you running, the volume and pressure of your pump may not be enough to open these types of valves. I had excellent results with a 2000gph pump in the driveway, but again, this has not been tested on the lake.

etang789
05-20-2009, 10:30 PM
Wow, I am surprised that you had them sent that far!!! Tazz is right, none of these valves we have been discussing have been tested in the water. I am hoping that the low pressure of simply driving the boat does not start some type of syphon effect where you can not stop the ballast from filling. I have only tested my valves in the driveway on a make shift saw horse test. What size pump are you running, the volume and pressure of your pump may not be enough to open these types of valves. I had excellent results with a 2000gph pump in the driveway, but again, this has not been tested on the lake.

I am still using the stock pump which ever came in the boat with...

Oh you mean you are not sure if these valves may not stop the ballast from filling itself when driving the boat around? I never cared about fixing this problem (I have this problem since I got the boat new with the working Orbit valves, hint now all orbit valves are broken)...I simply just shut off the main intake valve...

tazz3069
05-20-2009, 11:21 PM
My pumps were only two years old. I got tired of how long it took to fill the tanks. That is why I decided to change out the system. Great boat, just the ballast system is for the birds.

jasonwm
05-21-2009, 02:57 AM
Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier, I think I may have some beneficial information to add.

Yes, the '09 Moomba system uses one Jabsco Ballast Puppy pump for each bag. One of the advantages of impeller style pumps like the Jabsco is that they perform as a check valve, in that they will not allow water to flow past the impeller when the pump is not on. There are numerous disadvantages with reversible impeller pumps too though, so those must be taken into consideration.

If you are committed to keeping the sprinkler valve manifold system the factory uses, you need to upgrade to quarter turn solenoid valves if you really want to improve the fill time. The 3/4" hose used by the factory has a theoretical maximum flow of 2160GPH, while the diaphragm valves used by the factory only support ~400GPH. Filling a 400 pound bag will take at least 7.5 minutes if all other aspects of the flow path are ideal, which they are not.

The only reason to keep the valve manifold design is if you're going to use 1 fill pump for all of the bags. The way the factory setup the system prior to '09 allowed that one fill pump to fill each bag individually, but sacrificed a lot of speed.

If you're already switched to a one fill pump per bag system design, ditch the valves, and remove the added cost, complexity and restriction they introduce into the system. Install a vented loop into the fill line where the valves were and your problem of the bags filling while running will disappear.

Let me know if anything I've written is unclear, or if you have any other questions.

Jason

tazz3069
05-21-2009, 11:27 AM
Jason
I have already ripped out the Sprinkler Valve system. I agree it is junk. I now have 3 Tsunami 1200GPH pumps. Your post interest me. Can you make a diagram of what you mean. At this point, I am willing to try anything. So far my second Lake Test Failed miserably. I would like to make the third time the charm. Tanks in advance.

Mark

JesseC
05-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Install a vented loop into the fill line where the valves were and your problem of the bags filling while running will disappear.Jason


Could you explain what you mean by a vented loop? What exatly is it and how does it get installed?

tazz3069
05-21-2009, 06:33 PM
I called him this morning about his system. Have not heard anything yet.

dapjeff
05-22-2009, 01:40 PM
I am Tazz' Brother in law. He heard back from Jason this morning. It appears the vented loop will work only for isolated bags. This will require a separate pump for each bag. Otherwise the bags will equalize the water between them. The vented loop will solve Tazz' issue because he already uprgraded to the three separate pumps.

If you don't want to go to a three pump system the other option is to install 1/4 turn electric solenoid controlled ball valves. This replaces the sprinkler valve in the manifold and will eliminate the restriction caused by the valves Skiers Choice chose to use. Jason is working on a reliable source for these valves to sell from his website.

All this is outlined on Jason's website.

jasonwm
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Could you explain what you mean by a vented loop? What exatly is it and how does it get installed?
A vented loop is a fitting used in plumbing applications to prevent unintended flow through (or to allow sewer gasses to pass through a drain depending on the application). For our needs, it serves the first purpose. It's basically just a "U" shaped fitting with a vent in the top that is installed in series with the fill line from the pump to the bag or tank.

They are available through a number of sources, feel free to contact me if you need help sourcing one.


I called him this morning about his system. Have not heard anything yet.
It was great to talk with you this morning Mark, let me know how the third test goes, it will be nice to have a correctly functioning system that is quick.


I am Tazz' Brother in law. He heard back from Jason this morning. It appears the vented loop will work only for isolated bags. This will require a separate pump for each bag. Otherwise the bags will equalize the water between them. The vented loop will solve Tazz' issue because he already uprgraded to the three separate pumps.

If you don't want to go to a three pump system the other option is to install 1/4 turn electric solenoid controlled ball valves. This replaces the sprinkler valve in the manifold and will eliminate the restriction caused by the valves Skiers Choice chose to use. Jason is working on a reliable source for these valves to sell from his website.

All this is outlined on Jason's website.

Great summary of the functionality of the vented loop Jeff. I will make one small clarification, and that is to say that a vented loop will function fine regardless of whether or not you are using one pump to fill or 12. It will not however replace some type of valve network to distribute the water from that one pump out to each bag, so unless you're willing to either fill all of the ballast on your boat or none of it, you'll need some type of valves.

I am a huge proponent of replacing the sprinkler valve manifold with three individual pumps (and apparently so is Skier's Choice based on the '09 boats) as Mark has done. It's less complicated, cheaper and faster, with really no down sides.

Let me know how it goes when you get a chance to test the new setup!

moombadaze
05-22-2009, 04:48 PM
you need to upgrade to quarter turn solenoid valves if you really want to improve the fill time. Jason

Jason, tell me more about these quarter turn solenoid valve's, Ive done a lot of upgrades to my 08 system and feel it can still be faster.

Stacy

jasonwm
05-22-2009, 06:43 PM
I feel I may have opened pandoras box by even mentioning them! Quarter turn solenoid valves are essentially automated ball valves. The benefit of them over diaphragm or plunger type valves (like Moomba used) is that when open, they do not impede flow at all. They can be actuated by a number of methods including air (pneumatic) or electricity. Obviously we would want the electric variety for this application.

Now the bad news; I've yet to find a reliable source that sells them for an affordable price! I found one distributor once that had them for $60, but they are no longer in business. I hate to quote prices that are too high, for fear of someone finding a lower source.

Typically they cost between $100-150 for a decent metal body valve that will actually survive being used in a boat. So what does that mean? There is absolutely NO way quarter turn solenoid valves make sense from a dollar and sense perspective. For much less money you could install a single 2000GPH Rule pump for each bag, and have a faster more simplified system. The theoretical maximum amount of water that 3/4" hose can flow at the pressures we're talking about is around 2000GPH, it would be one thing if someone made a 6000GPH (2000GPH x 3 bags) pump that was affordable, but there's nothing out there with that capacity unless it's gasoline powered.

If it was my boat, I would remove the sprinkler valves, replace the Rule pump with some Tsunami's and check valves and be done with it. That's the cheapest, most flexible, fastest and most reliable system you could come up with.

mmandley
05-22-2009, 07:01 PM
Wow sounds like big winter project for me and Fierah. I figure after the summer ill be wanting more ballast and better fill times by then. Following this all and trying to keep up hee hee.

dapjeff
05-22-2009, 07:09 PM
Jason,

Will the vented loop act as a check valve or will one need to be installed in the fill line in addition to the vented loop?

moombadaze
05-22-2009, 07:10 PM
Jason, thank for the answers-sounds like I could be at max mods for my system.

dapjeff
05-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Also, why not just add two rule pumps in addition to the existing one rather than three tsunami pumps? Wouldn't the Rule pumps provide more GPH (2000) over the Tsunami's (1200) and we already have one pump in place?

Thanks for taking the time to answer all our questions.

Jeff

tazz3069
05-22-2009, 07:17 PM
Jason
Thanks for the info this morning. Just went to the website and ordered 3 of the vented loops from you. Again, thanks for all the info and insight on our sprinkler system that we have in the boats. I also hope that this will be the last test. I really do not want to take my boat out in the middle of the lake and burn it. J/K
Tazz (Mark)

dapjeff
05-22-2009, 07:38 PM
Mark,

It's too much work to keep the fire going. we'll just have to drill a few more holes in it and sink it;) See, an 09 may be in your future after all:D

jasonwm
05-23-2009, 03:40 AM
Wow sounds like big winter project for me and Fierah. I figure after the summer ill be wanting more ballast and better fill times by then. Following this all and trying to keep up hee hee.
We'll find a weekend in the fall to upgrade your system all at once.


Will the vented loop act as a check valve or will one need to be installed in the fill line in addition to the vented loop?
Yep, it provides the same functionality in preventing water from flowing either direction.


Also, why not just add two rule pumps in addition to the existing one rather than three tsunami pumps? Wouldn't the Rule pumps provide more GPH (2000) over the Tsunami's (1200) and we already have one pump in place?
Absolutely no reason at all, other than size. I would need to do some back-to-back testing to see what the actualized speed increase is with the Rule pump, but I have the feeling other restrictions (W736 connectors, W742 elbows, bends in hose, etc.) are going to make the difference between the two almost zero. The T1200's are much smaller than the Rule pumps, which makes them easier to fit in the crowded bilge compartment.

Any aerator pump would work though, just take your pick.


Jason
Thanks for the info this morning. Just went to the website and ordered 3 of the vented loops from you. Again, thanks for all the info and insight on our sprinkler system that we have in the boats. I also hope that this will be the last test. I really do not want to take my boat out in the middle of the lake and burn it. J/K
Tazz (Mark)
A funeral pyre would definitely not be the best way to complete your ballast system. :)


Mark,

It's too much work to keep the fire going. we'll just have to drill a few more holes in it and sink it;) See, an 09 may be in your future after all:D
That's one way to justify an upgrade!

JesseC
05-31-2009, 09:58 PM
Finally got the boat on the water this weekend and tested out the valves. I did not have any issues with them. They definately filled way faster than the old tiny sprinkler valves that were from the factory. They did not let any water through while closed and the boat running. I eneded up slalom skiing at 28 mph and still no water entered any of the three bags. When we fill the bags, it was way faster. I almost wish I had gone with the 1" valves, I instead installed the 3/4" ones. I was worried about having enough pressure to open the larger ones and just wen with the 3/4".

tazz3069
06-01-2009, 06:25 PM
Congrats Jesse.
Maybe that was my problem. I have 1" intake and valves. I am still waiting for my vented loops to come in. I really hope this fixes the problem. If not, I have one more try at a different product.

jasonwm
06-02-2009, 02:14 AM
1" valves won't do anything for you unless you replace all of the other 3/4" fixtures in your ballast system. Even then, I would expect you'll only see a reduction of literally seconds in the fill and drain times.

Sorry about the delay on your vented loops Mark, but I'm glad we caught the problem before we actually shipped them to customers.

choard
06-03-2009, 02:53 AM
So just to confirm what Jesse and Tazz are doing:

Jesse you have replaced the stock solenoid valve with the Irritrol 700 valves and kept the single Rule pump and have since lake tested them and they provide much better flow?

Tazz is waiting for three of the vented loop fittings and has taken out the Rule pump and has 3 Tsunami's. Are you using same single intake or have added additional? Could the stock single intake could be used if you fabbed a 3 outlet manifold with the Tsunami's screwed directly into it? I think I have seen this before in a post on some other forum.

I am waiting for some additional Flo-Rite fittings and then gonna take the plunge.

tazz3069
06-03-2009, 06:21 AM
I am not sure of the single intake can handle the three pumps. I added two more to the bottom of the boat. So, i have a total number of three pumps and three scuppers. Jason from www.wakemakers.com can probably answer that question better. He has been very helpful with my setup.

Tazz

JesseC
06-03-2009, 10:13 AM
So just to confirm what Jesse and Tazz are doing:

Jesse you have replaced the stock solenoid valve with the Irritrol 700 valves and kept the single Rule pump and have since lake tested them and they provide much better flow?


Yes, my Rule 2000GPH pump is stock, running through the stock manifold and through three Irritrol 700 valves in 3/4". I did a bench test in my driveway to test them out by filling a 5 gallon bucket. If you want to do a test yourself, just replace one valve and fill a 5 gallon bucket instead of your ballast bag and note the timing, then fill the bucket with an old valve and compare the timings. In my case I had older valves than most of you had and noticed a huge difference. You may not notice the difference in your current valves as compared to the Irritrol 700s.

Here is the thread where I tested them and the timings.

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=7741



.

jasonwm
06-04-2009, 02:48 AM
Tazz is waiting for three of the vented loop fittings and has taken out the Rule pump and has 3 Tsunami's. Are you using same single intake or have added additional? Could the stock single intake could be used if you fabbed a 3 outlet manifold with the Tsunami's screwed directly into it? I think I have seen this before in a post on some other forum.

Yes, the factory intake is large enough to support three individual 800GPH pumps. More than that and you'll start to see slight decreases in speed, but they'll still be FAR faster than the factory setup.

We're working on a kit to convert the factory setup over to individual pumps for each bag, and my inclination is that it will make use of the factory manifold allowing you to simply replace the sprinkler valves with new pumps. I will post more information when I have it.

Jon J
06-05-2009, 06:19 PM
JasonWM,

That kit sounds like the answer! Just replacing the valves with three new pumps! Sounds like the most simple solution yet. I have an LS (direct drive) so there is lots of room this.

Could a guy feed that manifold from both sides by adding one more scoop (intake) and use 1200 GPH pumps instead of the 800 GPH? If we used Rule pumps I assume we'd only need to buy two more pumps, and just move the existing stock one downstream to fill one of the three bags.

newty
06-06-2009, 09:42 AM
Jon J this is what I did in regards to adding a second pump to the mix.
http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=7373
I have since had issued with the front bag filling on its own w/o the spring as well. But the other bags seem to be fine.

I'm hoping to find acuated 12v ball valves and upgrade to 1" fittings this winter. So I'm listening intently to everyones ideas.

Ian Brantford
06-06-2009, 01:05 PM
Yes, the factory intake is large enough to support three individual 800GPH pumps. More than that and you'll start to see slight decreases in speed, but they'll still be FAR faster than the factory setup.

We're working on a kit to convert the factory setup over to individual pumps for each bag, and my inclination is that it will make use of the factory manifold allowing you to simply replace the sprinkler valves with new pumps. I will post more information when I have it.

That is great news! Those of us will little opportunity to experiment with our boats welcome solutions that involve a straightforward swap of parts. Hopefully the electrical supply will be easy to configure as well.

jasonwm
06-06-2009, 05:17 PM
Hey Jon-

You could add another intake for the other side of the manifold, but it's definitely not necessary, the volume of the factory hose is enough to support three or even four pumps. It's not worth dealing with adapting the odd size of the T1200 pump threads in my opinion. The difference in speed between it and the T800 only shows up when you're pumping hundreds of gallons of water, so the 75 or so gallons we're talking about moving won't be enough for the difference to show up.

jasonwm
06-06-2009, 05:19 PM
That is great news! Those of us will little opportunity to experiment with our boats welcome solutions that involve a straightforward swap of parts. Hopefully the electrical supply will be easy to configure as well.
Electrical is very straight forward, just change the factory wiring over from the solenoids to the pumps and disconnect the Rule pump's harness when you pull it out.

moombadaze
06-07-2009, 09:06 AM
We're working on a kit to convert the factory setup over to individual pumps for each bag, and my inclination is that it will make use of the factory manifold allowing you to simply replace the sprinkler valves with new pumps. I will post more information when I have it.


Interesting, Would you just remove the 2000 rule pump from the thru hull and add 3 800 tsunami pumps after the manifold? One question is that I know the tsunami pumps let water bleed past them- how would you stop that?

This could be very easy for someone who has the gravity 1 system to upgrade to a 3 bag ballast system. Include a wire harness and the new owner of my old boat would love to something like this.

tazz3069
06-07-2009, 09:15 AM
mombadaze
I was having that same problem. That is why I tried the valves. Did not work. I tried a check valve, Did not work. Jason recommended the vented loop. I call him and he explained what I need to buy and what I need to do so that my new pump system will work. I just got in my new Vented Loops and will be installing them on the boat here very soon. I will post pictures of the install. I have to do some minor plumbing and that its. Oh also, I need to remove those @#$&! sprinkler valves. I really hope this works. I at my wits end with this project.

jasonwm
06-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Interesting, Would you just remove the 2000 rule pump from the thru hull and add 3 800 tsunami pumps after the manifold? One question is that I know the tsunami pumps let water bleed past them- how would you stop that?

This could be very easy for someone who has the gravity 1 system to upgrade to a 3 bag ballast system. Include a wire harness and the new owner of my old boat would love to something like this.
Yes, just remove the factory Rule pump, remove the sprinklers and connect the new pumps to the wiring for the solenoids. Install a vented loop before each bag and you're set.

moombadaze
06-07-2009, 04:20 PM
Yes, just remove the factory Rule pump, remove the sprinklers and connect the new pumps to the wiring for the solenoids. Install a vented loop before each bag and you're set.


Jason, I have added a tee fitting to my thruhull and have added a 800 tsunami that pumps directly to my surf bag( bypassing the manifold)- do you think I could keep that in place and add the 3 800 tsunami's after the manifold or even better keep the rule 2000 in place and have it feed the surf bag directly then remove the 800 tsumami at the tee and still use the 3 800 pumps after the manifold with the vented loops or would i be exceeding the amount of water flow the thurhull could handle?

What my vision is, is having the rule 2000 pump on the tee fitting filling directly to my surf bag. then the factory manifold haveing 3 800gph tsunami pumps

Does this make any sense? I had to draw it out on paper--warning very crude artwork:rolleyes:
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00638.jpg

jasonwm
06-07-2009, 11:14 PM
What size is the intake in your boat? Either one of those setups should work fine, I would go with whatever will cost the least (like reusing your the pumps you already have).

cab13367
06-08-2009, 01:33 AM
Could someone please explain what this vented loop is and how it works.

Thanks.

newty
06-08-2009, 09:05 AM
Yea me too. I know its a vacuum break but how does it stop the bags from filling underway?

Razzman
06-08-2009, 10:35 AM
X2 - i gotta need to know! :D

tazz3069
06-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Ok fellow Moomba owners. This is a picture of a vented Loop.
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1417
Think of it as and upside down P-Trap. Malibu boats us the exact same thing in there boats. The pumps they are using is the 800GPH pahranna pumps. I saw it on my friends boat. If this works, it will get rid of those dumb A@# valves.

newty
06-08-2009, 08:13 PM
Thats a big IF. I'm still waiting for the how!

jasonwm
06-08-2009, 10:43 PM
It's actually not a big if, Malibu has been using this setup since 2005, and it's the same system that is employed on almost every ship to prevent the transfer of fluids from one tank to another.

I've had quite a few questions asking how the vented loop works, so I posted a little summary on our blog (http://media.wakemakers.com/2009/06/stop-unwanted-filling-and-draining-with-a-vented-loop/). Take a look at that summary, and let me know if you still have questions.

newty
06-09-2009, 01:17 AM
Makes sense! Ok Tazz order a couple of these things and tell me how it works. The problem with the Moomba's is getting the loop up in the dash area for the front bag. There just isn't that much room to run the hoses without adding a bunch of hose and a few mods to get the hose routed up there.
Oh wait I love mods!

jasonwm
06-09-2009, 01:53 AM
Mods are the fun part, right? :)

moombadaze
06-09-2009, 07:20 AM
Mods are the fun part, right? :)


Starting to picture a completely different fill system in the near future.

tazz3069
06-09-2009, 09:15 AM
That is how mine is turning out.
The pros about the new set-up.
1. No more dumb a@% valves.
2. More room in the engine compartment
3. Faster Fill
4. No more waiting for the bags to fill
5. More wake boarding time

The cons
1. Why moomba hasn't thought of this sooner. It takes average people like us to figure it out.

I did order the valves. I have two of them right now. I am still waiting for the third one. I will then start the install and take pictures of what I did. I do need to give credit to Jason from www.wakemakers.com. He is the one who walked me through the entire process and how to install. Thanks Jason
Tazz

Razzman
06-09-2009, 10:49 AM
The problem with the Moomba's is getting the loop up in the dash area for the front bag. There just isn't that much room to run the hoses without adding a bunch of hose and a few mods to get the hose routed up there.

This i gotta see! It is so cramped up there and as i see it the loop must be at the same level or higher than the thru hull? I don't know where in the heck you'd put it?

tazz3069
06-09-2009, 07:35 PM
Razz--
I have a spot in mind. When I attack this mod, I will see if it will work there. I do know that I need to extend the hoses a bit. I am working both this week and part of next week in Southern Calif right now. When I return to Vegas, I need to take care of this. Need to have boat ready for Don Pedro.

jasonwm
06-10-2009, 08:20 PM
I've found that using the stock hose to run to the inlet of the loop and then run a new piece of hose out from the loop to the bag.

reeder
08-29-2014, 03:05 PM
Sorry for bringing up this ancient thread, just wondering if anyone can confirm forsure that the Irrotrol sprinkler valve part number to replace the stock Orbit valve is IR-700B-75?

kaneboats
09-02-2014, 08:21 AM
I think that's the one I used.